I said right from the start that the problem with var is that the idiot on the pitch’s decisions would be reviewed by another idiot in front of a screen and the latter idiot would become the match referee.
Limit var to offsides ( with a more lenient tolerance ) and not use it for opinions. Nothing wrong with the idiot on the pitch checking a pitch side screen though.
Whilst I think Lo Celso meant to hurt him, I can't be sure. I'm not sure it is helpful VAR people saying they got it wrong. I am all for openness but I think the people running it are idiots. We need one sensible person to sort the whole thing out and turn it into something that benefits the game. We only need to make sure that person isn't a ref as they are a bit of a joke when it comes to things like this. Look at the handball law! Nobody knows what is handball anymore, not even them.
Are people seriously doubting whether the Bournemouth lad committed a handball offence?
Which one? The one for their disallowed goal seemed quite clearly to hit his shoulder which is not handball. The one for the penalty is not so clear. It may have hit slightly below the shoulder.
I found the excuse the VAR officials gave for the Lo Celso challenge bewildering. Whoever thought up “He had nowhere else for his boot to go” probably shouldn’t be doing the job.
A while ago they were saying that the referees should go and look at the pitch side monitor to help with decision making. How many times has that happened?
It seems as though they have to wait to be told they can go ahead and look at it. The referees are not making decisions anymore. They are just waiting for VAR to look at everything and then implement that decision.
If the referee at the Chelsea/ Spurs game had had a quick look at the monitor then surely that would have been enough.
How’s that not dangerous every over head to me if anyone’s near is dangerous but they’re always let off
This is why I would give an appeal to each team captain. If another ref suggests to the on field ref that an incident needs to be looked at again, it puts pressure on the ref to change his decision. If a captain does it, there is no pressure at all and the ref can look at the incident again with a clear head.
I have absolutely no problem with a team who has lost their appeal losing out. If you aim for fairer you get a better system. If you aim for perfection you get unachievable and the mess we have now.
The handball for the disallowed Watford goal today bothers me. I know this is a problem with the rule rather than with VAR - ie that it says any handball in the lead up to a goal means the goal is disallowed, but when a player has his arm down and tight to his body when the ball hits it, that seems slightly ridiculous.
The problem is the bloody idiot refs who operate it. To me it just shows how poor our refs are they look at things 6 times and still get it wrong far too many times.
VAR didn’t know about apology over Lo Celso incident
The Premier League took an unprecedented step on Saturday when it admitted mid-game that a human error was made by the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) in Chelsea’s win against Tottenham.
No sooner had the league moved to explain why the VAR, David Coote, opted not to punish Giovanni Lo Celso for a challenge on Chelsea captain Cesar Azpilicueta than it issued further communication to accept a mistake had occurred and the Spurs man should have seen red.
It materialises that the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) came to this decision without any input from Coote and he was completely unaware of it until his post-match debrief.
PGMOL boss Mike Riley was not at VAR’s Stockley Park HQ as the situation unfolded but he quickly got in touch to express an opinion and in conjunction with his deputy Adam Gale-Watts, former referee Dermot Gallagher and several other senior figures on site, the fault was conceded.
VARs are not allowed any contact with the outside world while working and therefore, as is standard after full-time, Coote met with his superiors and learnt about what had unfolded.
The official was asked to explain why he did not send off Lo Celso and, having watched it back, later acknowledged the Argentine should have been dismissed, though it is understood that he did not apologise. Coote’s view was that Lo Celso was trying to protect the ball from Azpilicueta, who came in under him, had his leg straight and the official didn’t believe there was the required intensity or point of contact to warrant a red card.
He was informed that, at the very least, he should have instructed the on-field referee Michael Oliver to go over to the pitchside monitor and review the incident before making a final call.
It surprised many that despite his role in the lunchtime kick-off, Coote was also VAR for the late fixture between Leicester City and Manchester City. However, he showed no ill-effects from the furore — doubling up has been taking place all season and there are no plans for that to change.
Coote will not face any form of punishment and continues to be available for selection.
VAR didn’t know about apology over Lo Celso incident
The Premier League took an unprecedented step on Saturday when it admitted mid-game that a human error was made by the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) in Chelsea’s win against Tottenham.
No sooner had the league moved to explain why the VAR, David Coote, opted not to punish Giovanni Lo Celso for a challenge on Chelsea captain Cesar Azpilicueta than it issued further communication to accept a mistake had occurred and the Spurs man should have seen red.
It materialises that the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) came to this decision without any input from Coote and he was completely unaware of it until his post-match debrief.
PGMOL boss Mike Riley was not at VAR’s Stockley Park HQ as the situation unfolded but he quickly got in touch to express an opinion and in conjunction with his deputy Adam Gale-Watts, former referee Dermot Gallagher and several other senior figures on site, the fault was conceded.
VARs are not allowed any contact with the outside world while working and therefore, as is standard after full-time, Coote met with his superiors and learnt about what had unfolded.
The official was asked to explain why he did not send off Lo Celso and, having watched it back, later acknowledged the Argentine should have been dismissed, though it is understood that he did not apologise. Coote’s view was that Lo Celso was trying to protect the ball from Azpilicueta, who came in under him, had his leg straight and the official didn’t believe there was the required intensity or point of contact to warrant a red card.
He was informed that, at the very least, he should have instructed the on-field referee Michael Oliver to go over to the pitchside monitor and review the incident before making a final call.
It surprised many that despite his role in the lunchtime kick-off, Coote was also VAR for the late fixture between Leicester City and Manchester City. However, he showed no ill-effects from the furore — doubling up has been taking place all season and there are no plans for that to change.
Coote will not face any form of punishment and continues to be available for selection.
WHAT?!
Isn't that exactly what he did during the game?
It's not like he's an on field ref who then sees a replay after the game and acknowledges a mistake, he's the VAR, he's already watched it back and decided it wasn't a red card.
Also if he doesn't face any punishment then where's the deterrent to avoid similar mistakes in future?
The way that the match referee was excluded from the decision making process makes this even worse.
I agree with this. The ref has to use his judgement and we all have to accept that the judgement of one man may be different to another. In the case of hand ball, the law needs to be changed and it should simply need to reflect the belief of the ref that the handball was intentional or placement of arms/hands intentionally placed in a position making handball more likely and no other ref can review it.
You can not legislate for something like intent by trying to write down what it is. It can only be determined by the judgement of the official applying their own common sense.
UEFA will introduce thicker lines for offside decisions reviewed in the Champions League and Europa League by Video Assistant Referees [VARs], in a bid to encourage more goals from next season.
The new lines, which may yet be used in this summer's European Championships, can be used under the existing laws of football.
UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin says he has been in talks with the organisation's refereeing officials to roll out the changes to ensure sides are not "ruined" by one wrong decision.
"One centimetre offside is not offside," said Ceferin, in an exclusive interview with Sky Sports News. "Because that's not the meaning of the rule. And it has to be clear and obvious mistake for VAR to intervene.
"So, thicker lines are essential because the line is drawn subjectively. So, it's not exact and if one centimetre… you ruin the season of a club with one wrong decision. And, for me, the handball is also problematic, but I don't know what exactly to do about it. We are discussing a lot with our referee officers."
UEFA will introduce thicker lines for offside decisions reviewed in the Champions League and Europa League by Video Assistant Referees [VARs], in a bid to encourage more goals from next season.
The new lines, which may yet be used in this summer's European Championships, can be used under the existing laws of football.
UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin says he has been in talks with the organisation's refereeing officials to roll out the changes to ensure sides are not "ruined" by one wrong decision.
"One centimetre offside is not offside," said Ceferin, in an exclusive interview with Sky Sports News. "Because that's not the meaning of the rule. And it has to be clear and obvious mistake for VAR to intervene.
"So, thicker lines are essential because the line is drawn subjectively. So, it's not exact and if one centimetre… you ruin the season of a club with one wrong decision. And, for me, the handball is also problematic, but I don't know what exactly to do about it. We are discussing a lot with our referee officers."
Lines are currently 12cms thick. Wonder what the thickness will increase to?
UEFA will introduce thicker lines for offside decisions reviewed in the Champions League and Europa League by Video Assistant Referees [VARs], in a bid to encourage more goals from next season.
The new lines, which may yet be used in this summer's European Championships, can be used under the existing laws of football.
UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin says he has been in talks with the organisation's refereeing officials to roll out the changes to ensure sides are not "ruined" by one wrong decision.
"One centimetre offside is not offside," said Ceferin, in an exclusive interview with Sky Sports News. "Because that's not the meaning of the rule. And it has to be clear and obvious mistake for VAR to intervene.
"So, thicker lines are essential because the line is drawn subjectively. So, it's not exact and if one centimetre… you ruin the season of a club with one wrong decision. And, for me, the handball is also problematic, but I don't know what exactly to do about it. We are discussing a lot with our referee officers."
Lines are currently 12cms thick. Wonder what the thickness will increase to?
It's easy - make the lines one mile thick.
A player is called offside if he is either :-
Obviously and indisputably in an offside position when viewed with the naked eye by the referee or by VAR.
OR
Video evidence demonstrates he is more than one mile offside even though this is not obvious to the naked eye.
This is what the original laws always intended and I believe it mirrors the way they do it in Rugby.
If you're not sure whether a player is offside and you feel the need to measure it, then by definition he isn't offside!
Comments
Might have been harsh how its fallen but the Defender practically swats the ball away with his hand
Which one? The one for their disallowed goal seemed quite clearly to hit his shoulder which is not handball. The one for the penalty is not so clear. It may have hit slightly below the shoulder.
The one for the penalty was more difficult to call and the fact that they went straight up the other end and scored only makes things worse.
VAR strongly reminds me of an EU bureaucrat. Faceless, unaccountable and incompetent.
It seems as though they have to wait to be told they can go ahead and look at it. The referees are not making decisions anymore. They are just waiting for VAR to look at everything and then implement that decision.
If the referee at the Chelsea/ Spurs game had had a quick look at the monitor then surely that would have been enough.
every over head to me if anyone’s near is dangerous but they’re always let off
I have absolutely no problem with a team who has lost their appeal losing out. If you aim for fairer you get a better system. If you aim for perfection you get unachievable and the mess we have now.
I know this is a problem with the rule rather than with VAR - ie that it says any handball in the lead up to a goal means the goal is disallowed, but when a player has his arm down and tight to his body when the ball hits it, that seems slightly ridiculous.
The problem is the bloody idiot refs who operate it. To me it just shows how poor our refs are they look at things 6 times and still get it wrong far too many times.
VAR didn’t know about apology over Lo Celso incident
The Premier League took an unprecedented step on Saturday when it admitted mid-game that a human error was made by the Video Assistant Referee (VAR) in Chelsea’s win against Tottenham.
No sooner had the league moved to explain why the VAR, David Coote, opted not to punish Giovanni Lo Celso for a challenge on Chelsea captain Cesar Azpilicueta than it issued further communication to accept a mistake had occurred and the Spurs man should have seen red.
It materialises that the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) came to this decision without any input from Coote and he was completely unaware of it until his post-match debrief.
PGMOL boss Mike Riley was not at VAR’s Stockley Park HQ as the situation unfolded but he quickly got in touch to express an opinion and in conjunction with his deputy Adam Gale-Watts, former referee Dermot Gallagher and several other senior figures on site, the fault was conceded.
VARs are not allowed any contact with the outside world while working and therefore, as is standard after full-time, Coote met with his superiors and learnt about what had unfolded.
The official was asked to explain why he did not send off Lo Celso and, having watched it back, later acknowledged the Argentine should have been dismissed, though it is understood that he did not apologise. Coote’s view was that Lo Celso was trying to protect the ball from Azpilicueta, who came in under him, had his leg straight and the official didn’t believe there was the required intensity or point of contact to warrant a red card.
He was informed that, at the very least, he should have instructed the on-field referee Michael Oliver to go over to the pitchside monitor and review the incident before making a final call.
It surprised many that despite his role in the lunchtime kick-off, Coote was also VAR for the late fixture between Leicester City and Manchester City. However, he showed no ill-effects from the furore — doubling up has been taking place all season and there are no plans for that to change.
Coote will not face any form of punishment and continues to be available for selection.
Isn't that exactly what he did during the game?
It's not like he's an on field ref who then sees a replay after the game and acknowledges a mistake, he's the VAR, he's already watched it back and decided it wasn't a red card.
Also if he doesn't face any punishment then where's the deterrent to avoid similar mistakes in future?
The way that the match referee was excluded from the decision making process makes this even worse.
You can not legislate for something like intent by trying to write down what it is. It can only be determined by the judgement of the official applying their own common sense.
UEFA will introduce thicker lines for offside decisions reviewed in the Champions League and Europa League by Video Assistant Referees [VARs], in a bid to encourage more goals from next season.
The new lines, which may yet be used in this summer's European Championships, can be used under the existing laws of football.
UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin says he has been in talks with the organisation's refereeing officials to roll out the changes to ensure sides are not "ruined" by one wrong decision.
"One centimetre offside is not offside," said Ceferin, in an exclusive interview with Sky Sports News. "Because that's not the meaning of the rule. And it has to be clear and obvious mistake for VAR to intervene.
"So, thicker lines are essential because the line is drawn subjectively. So, it's not exact and if one centimetre… you ruin the season of a club with one wrong decision. And, for me, the handball is also problematic, but I don't know what exactly to do about it. We are discussing a lot with our referee officers."
WHAT?
Edit
Just seen how old this post was!
Obviously and indisputably in an offside position when viewed with the naked eye by the referee or by VAR.
OR
Video evidence demonstrates he is more than one mile offside even though this is not obvious to the naked eye.
This is what the original laws always intended and I believe it mirrors the way they do it in Rugby.
If you're not sure whether a player is offside and you feel the need to measure it, then by definition he isn't offside!