I went for a No - obviously it needed to be scaled down in line with other cutbacks, but there will be no easy way back and so from a PR point of view I think it's a mistake given parachute payments etc.
Yes Yes Yes, the comments from the female captain about them being the only the only team to have won anything of note were pathetic. They are supposedly Arsenal's nearest challengers yet got beat 9-2 by them or something ridiculous like that this season. They do not draw in crowds & therefore any income into the club but actually cost money. Whilst personally I'd rather see Marcus Bent removed, tough decisions like this have to be made now in order to safeguard the clubs future.
I voted 'yes'. I've obviously nothing against women's football but also don't see the need to have a Charlton affiliated team.
If it has no bearing on the first eleven then I've little interest in any Charlton team whichever sex or nationality they are. The Youth team feeds the first (theoretically at least), the Reserves are important for match fitness and have a bearing on the first team - the women's team however has absolutely nothing to do with it and never will so I'm not concerned in the slightest at them being gone.
Putting aside the financial side (which as has been pointed out could be cut back, and apparently is tiny in comparison with other areas of the club) and people's opinion on women's football, the women's team has become an integral part of Charlton Athletic Football Club, it's community work and it's PR and marketing drive over the last few seasons.
To simply toss this away now is a disgrace, a terrible decision which sends out completely the wrong message about our club.
Sure, running the Women's team cost money - and just like running the men's team, loses money.
But surely the women's team could have been restructured without it being destroyed?
Less savage cut backs, playing matches at Sparrows Lane or even occasionally after a Sunday men's CCC game at The Valley - plus some Sponsorship could have brought costs right down..
The value of a successful women's team should not be underestimated in marketing terms - not only promoting the Charlton brand but in attracting girls and women who come to watch the men's team via their interest and even their ambition to play for Charlton Women.
No doubt, some grey faced, grey suited accountant or auditor has highlighted an easy target for savings. In the short term it may seem a sensible economy.
But looking at the bigger picture and with a long term perspective, the loss of goodwill resulting from this myopic decision could damage the club in terms far greater than the savings made.
Even if no longer at the top level, it should still be possible to run a Charlton Women team for attracting girls and women who come to watch the men's team via their interest and even their ambition to play for Charlton Women.
And it is bad PR - and does leave a bad taste in the mouth.
I voted "Don't Care" because that's how I feel about women's football. TBH for the level they are at - one of the best in the country - the football is still pretty rubbish to watch. One game on TV all season - the cup final - so obviously not many other people care either. Agree that it could backfire from a PR point but really, how many people even knew there was a Charlton's ladies team other than us?
Although I can take or leave women's football, I can't help thinking that this is a massive own goal by the club. What sort of message is it sending out? For all the plaudits and awards they receive for their community work, axing the women's section is going to leave a big hole that they have to fill if they want to cling on to these awards.
Sorry but i don't think that the women's team is part of the community work - it's a football club (well i'm sure thats how they would like to be regarded rather than a community scheme).
The summer and half term courses will still be run and i am sure that girls will still be able to attend them. The club is not (that) stupid and i am sure they will have links with local teams if they want to advise girls how to get into women's football etc.
I don't even know why this subject is getting me so worked up - maybe i just think that getting the club in order and getting promotion is the most important thing for us at the moment.
[cite]Posted By: AllLeftFoot[/cite]I went for a No - obviously it needed to be scaled down in line with other cutbacks, but there will be no easy way back and so from a PR point of view I think it's a mistake given parachute payments etc.
The parachute payment, with respect, is a red herring. The club has to halve it's cost base. The parachute payment just means it doesn't have to wipe out even more of its cost base all at once and allows it to be able to manage the downsizing without going bust. If you have players on premier league wages and you go down, you have no choice but to continue paying these players until either you sell them (not always easy) or they come to the end of their contracts.
Halving the cost base when some costs cannot be taken out means that all activities which can be cut come under the spotlight for the chop. So brace yourself for annoucements in the coming days. We may have to dump our acadamy and well known names and faces may be gone.
If the club have decided to axe the womens team, that means it hasn't had to axe something else which it deems more important to keep.
If everyone who seems to care so much about this closure actually attended the games maybe the women's teams would have been a little more self sufficient and wouldn't be in this position anyway.
[cite]Posted By: Stu of SE7[/cite]If everyone who seems to care so much about this closure actually attended the games maybe the women's teams would have been a little more self sufficient and wouldn't be in this position anyway.
If you birds wanna play footy, play it in your back gardens. Its like birds boxing, who cares. Can we have a Charlton beach volleyball team. I'd get a season ticket for that.
[cite]Posted By: bibble[/cite]If you birds wanna play footy, play it in your back gardens. Its like birds boxing, who cares. Can we have a Charlton beach volleyball team. I'd get a season ticket for that.
[cite]Posted By: Ketman[/cite]Yes Yes Yes, the comments from the female captain about them being the only the only team to have won anything of note were pathetic. They are supposedly Arsenal's nearest challengers yet got beat 9-2 by them or something ridiculous like that this season. They do not draw in crowds & therefore any income into the club but actually cost money. Whilst personally I'd rather see Marcus Bent removed, tough decisions like this have to be made now in order to safeguard the clubs future.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]I must admit suprise. Despite being a 'yes', i expected the No's to be around 80-90%, not the current 39%.
Just shows how many closet sexists there are on this board to add to those like WSS and Bibble etc who have no trouble coming out. Oggy and Valley McMoist have said it all as far as I'm concerned. I'm just disappointed at some of the more puerile reaction. If this incident or debate had happened before the charity game, I doubt I'd have had the courage to vounteer to join in.
don't be silly Weegie. In these forums you can never expect everyone to have the same opinion. We've had over a hundred comments here regarding this, and you can count on one hand anything that could be regarded as sexist, and still have fingers left over. The comments there have been i'm sure have been tongue in cheek or attempts at humour.
I actually think it has been an excellent debate, and showed just how wide peoples views are on the subject. I think a lot of people against the decision are wrongly reading the views of those supporting as if they are pleased by the decision. I suspect like myself, no one is 'pleased', i just think its a case of priorities. The board would know they would get flak for this, so i'm sure they would not have made this decision lightly, particularly as some board members are known supporters of womens football.
My summary its the right decision is based on two points:
1. Out of the clubs paying 18,000 season ticket holders, the womens team were actively followed by less than 50 of those.
2. The potential cost saving will keep in employment 18-20 staff in other areas of the club necessary that we operate viably as a club, be that in marketing, ticket office, catering, accounts etc.
I voted yes very reluctantly because I think its a shame that it has come to this.
I have no doubt that the decent people who run our club have taken his course with great regret.
Having recently been involved at a board level in making people redundant, it's a horid process and most people with a shred of decency and compassion cannot do it without a lot of soul searching and sleepless nights. In the end you have to devise a fair model based upon your core activities and the contribution to the survival of the organisation by either revenue generation or essential costs. Let us not forget that this is an issue of job losses not just about the axing of a team and those who have lost out will feel huge hurt. The clubs silence thus far is almost certainly about the legal process that has to be gone through.
I voted 'yes' because women's football is sh*t. That's not sexist, it's true. It's piss-boring to watch, they bring no money into the club and I would rather pay 100k to help pay the tea ladies' wages at the training ground than waste it on something that is, basically, just a pit to throw money into.
If they even got, say 1,000 fans to their matches and charged each of them a fiver to get in, that would go some way toward at least paying for themselves. As it is, continuing to support them financially is no different to a bunch of blokes rocking up to Reg's office and saying 'we're all big Charlton fans and we play under the 'Charlton' name - spot us 20k a year guv'.
in the prem, where there is a lot more money floating around, then fair enough. Outside the prem, where, if we DON'T go straight back up we will be in a WORLD of hurt for the next six or seven seasons, it's a luxury we can't afford.
As I said on the other thread people are confusing issues.
The first issue is the worth or otherwise of womens football. We can have this debate but it is irrelevant to Charlton's decision.
Charlton decided 10 years or so ago to support and promote womens football. I could redecorate my house many times over with the literature I've read over that period promoting womens football!
Having made the decision to embrace womens football the Club has a moral obligation to continue particularly as it has marketed itself as being a community club and not just in it for the money over an even longer period.
In my opinion the Club risks losing a lot of the credibility and integrity it has built up over the last few years through this decision yet the monetary savings are relatively minor.
The major overhead is male player wages and that is where savings and cuts should be made.
Pards said we wanted to lose the soft image the club has and it looks like were losing it...... relistically we trying are ABSOLUTE best to get back to the big time NOW as if we miss this boat we could be down for years ... if 250,000 can make a difference then well take it.... we nee devery penny to give us best chance... womens football in this country is pretty bloody irrelevant anyway, these people can find other teams and if we were in the prem wed keep it going as we had the money but at the mo we dont .... debate over.....
Len we cant cut wages unless its already in the contract and we cant just keep people out the club unless we face massive fees as we terminated the contract so EVERYTHING else has to go if its cuttable and non essential, including the girls team, then it goes to pay for Bouggy, or randolphs, or moutakils wages......
F@#$ the PR
Weve gone one stab at getting straight back with the parachutes and the board have decided to go for it...
Comments
If it has no bearing on the first eleven then I've little interest in any Charlton team whichever sex or nationality they are. The Youth team feeds the first (theoretically at least), the Reserves are important for match fitness and have a bearing on the first team - the women's team however has absolutely nothing to do with it and never will so I'm not concerned in the slightest at them being gone.
Putting aside the financial side (which as has been pointed out could be cut back, and apparently is tiny in comparison with other areas of the club) and people's opinion on women's football, the women's team has become an integral part of Charlton Athletic Football Club, it's community work and it's PR and marketing drive over the last few seasons.
To simply toss this away now is a disgrace, a terrible decision which sends out completely the wrong message about our club.
But surely the women's team could have been restructured without it being destroyed?
Less savage cut backs, playing matches at Sparrows Lane or even occasionally after a Sunday men's CCC game at The Valley - plus some Sponsorship could have brought costs right down..
The value of a successful women's team should not be underestimated in marketing terms - not only promoting the Charlton brand but in attracting girls and women who come to watch the men's team via their interest and even their ambition to play for Charlton Women.
No doubt, some grey faced, grey suited accountant or auditor has highlighted an easy target for savings. In the short term it may seem a sensible economy.
But looking at the bigger picture and with a long term perspective, the loss of goodwill resulting from this myopic decision could damage the club in terms far greater than the savings made.
And it is bad PR - and does leave a bad taste in the mouth.
I am stupid!
The summer and half term courses will still be run and i am sure that girls will still be able to attend them. The club is not (that) stupid and i am sure they will have links with local teams if they want to advise girls how to get into women's football etc.
I don't even know why this subject is getting me so worked up - maybe i just think that getting the club in order and getting promotion is the most important thing for us at the moment.
The parachute payment, with respect, is a red herring. The club has to halve it's cost base. The parachute payment just means it doesn't have to wipe out even more of its cost base all at once and allows it to be able to manage the downsizing without going bust. If you have players on premier league wages and you go down, you have no choice but to continue paying these players until either you sell them (not always easy) or they come to the end of their contracts.
Halving the cost base when some costs cannot be taken out means that all activities which can be cut come under the spotlight for the chop. So brace yourself for annoucements in the coming days. We may have to dump our acadamy and well known names and faces may be gone.
If the club have decided to axe the womens team, that means it hasn't had to axe something else which it deems more important to keep.
if we don't get up in 2/3 years then this may be when it goes.
And I am not trying to be provocative. I just happen to believe it.
Not if some of the football team transfer across.
spot on.
Just shows how many closet sexists there are on this board to add to those like WSS and Bibble etc who have no trouble coming out. Oggy and Valley McMoist have said it all as far as I'm concerned. I'm just disappointed at some of the more puerile reaction. If this incident or debate had happened before the charity game, I doubt I'd have had the courage to vounteer to join in.
I actually think it has been an excellent debate, and showed just how wide peoples views are on the subject. I think a lot of people against the decision are wrongly reading the views of those supporting as if they are pleased by the decision. I suspect like myself, no one is 'pleased', i just think its a case of priorities. The board would know they would get flak for this, so i'm sure they would not have made this decision lightly, particularly as some board members are known supporters of womens football.
My summary its the right decision is based on two points:
1. Out of the clubs paying 18,000 season ticket holders, the womens team were actively followed by less than 50 of those.
2. The potential cost saving will keep in employment 18-20 staff in other areas of the club necessary that we operate viably as a club, be that in marketing, ticket office, catering, accounts etc.
I have no doubt that the decent people who run our club have taken his course with great regret.
Having recently been involved at a board level in making people redundant, it's a horid process and most people with a shred of decency and compassion cannot do it without a lot of soul searching and sleepless nights. In the end you have to devise a fair model based upon your core activities and the contribution to the survival of the organisation by either revenue generation or essential costs. Let us not forget that this is an issue of job losses not just about the axing of a team and those who have lost out will feel huge hurt. The clubs silence thus far is almost certainly about the legal process that has to be gone through.
If they even got, say 1,000 fans to their matches and charged each of them a fiver to get in, that would go some way toward at least paying for themselves. As it is, continuing to support them financially is no different to a bunch of blokes rocking up to Reg's office and saying 'we're all big Charlton fans and we play under the 'Charlton' name - spot us 20k a year guv'.
in the prem, where there is a lot more money floating around, then fair enough. Outside the prem, where, if we DON'T go straight back up we will be in a WORLD of hurt for the next six or seven seasons, it's a luxury we can't afford.
The first issue is the worth or otherwise of womens football. We can have this debate but it is irrelevant to Charlton's decision.
Charlton decided 10 years or so ago to support and promote womens football. I could redecorate my house many times over with the literature I've read over that period promoting womens football!
Having made the decision to embrace womens football the Club has a moral obligation to continue particularly as it has marketed itself as being a community club and not just in it for the money over an even longer period.
In my opinion the Club risks losing a lot of the credibility and integrity it has built up over the last few years through this decision yet the monetary savings are relatively minor.
The major overhead is male player wages and that is where savings and cuts should be made.
Len we cant cut wages unless its already in the contract and we cant just keep people out the club unless we face massive fees as we terminated the contract so EVERYTHING else has to go if its cuttable and non essential, including the girls team, then it goes to pay for Bouggy, or randolphs, or moutakils wages......
F@#$ the PR
Weve gone one stab at getting straight back with the parachutes and the board have decided to go for it...