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Stephen Henderson - officially appointed Men's 1st team goalkeeping coach (p4)
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Yes so your agreeing with me then :-)East_Stand_Loopy said:
But that, in itself, creates churn. Every time you get relegated (from whatever division), there will be players on wages that you can't pay, or can't justify.Cafc43v3r said:
It has, but I doubt you would see as much churn if we were more consistent. In the 15 season I looked at I think it was 4 in the prem, 2 in the champ, 3 in league 1, 3 in the champ, 3 in league 1. It also includedkillerandflash said:
That’s the reality now for most clubs outside the PL though. How many of the Doncaster team we played in May will still be there next season for example?Cafc43v3r said:
As an experiment I have just counted the center backs we have used for the last 15 years. I have 45. I know I have missed at least 1, the hapless lad from Middlesbrough. I haven't included people like Pratley, Jacko or Cousins who may have filled in their but have included the likes of Diarra and El Kakouri. My list Starts with Rufus, finishes with Bielik but in the middle there is a real mixture of the good, the bad and the bloody useless.SoundAsa£ said:
Agree.....but I wouldn’t mind betting we are easily the current champions in the goalkeeping turnover stakes.Cafc43v3r said:
It's probably a combination of the uniqueness in the position, most of them have actually left us to be number 2s at a bigger club, with mixed long term results.SoundAsa£ said:Indeed......I doubt there is another club in the history of the game who has released/ transferred so many goalkeepers who have then gone on to establish themselves at a higher level in the game.......it’s quite bewildering to be honest as well as costly and somewhat embarrassing. Just why this continues to happen should be looked into.
I have lost count!
Also let's not forget that for most of the last 15 years the club has been a basket case. 4 ownerships, 14 managers and at least 20 diffrent goal keepers. I am not sure how other positions compare in turnover but a lot of people were/are supprised at the relative success others such as Hudson, Francis, McCormack and Fox had when they left us.
But I think in the round we have recruited brilliantly with goal keepers in the that period, managed some badly and retained/disposed of them awfully. I don't think it's a problem unique to Roland's Charlton. It seems to pre date him as well.
I haven't included Cory Gibbs for obvious reasons.
My conclusion. Goal keepers aren't an exception chopping and changing managers and 5 promotions and relegations means we have never had a stable squad for more than 18 months durining that time.
The Bosman ruling has also encouraged this, with players regularly moving on after short contracts expire.
The horrible rebuild under Dowie.
Boom or bust under Pardew.
Parkinson begging and borrow what he could.
Powell trying unteen diffrent players, loans and short term contracts before his massive summer rebuild.
The "network" experiment.
The stupidity of RDs 3rd January window.
That was before the 3 years of almost normality you have described above. In contrast to us Ipswich spent all of those 15 years in the same divison. I suspect their churn, in any position, isn't as much as ours.
Every time you get promoted, there will be players who the management team, whoever they are, think will be unable to make the step up.
A mid table Championship, for example, doesn't have those problems. Unless they decide that they want to push for promotion, and then churn sets in again...0 -
Cafc43v3r said:
Yes so your agreeing with me then :-)East_Stand_Loopy said:
But that, in itself, creates churn. Every time you get relegated (from whatever division), there will be players on wages that you can't pay, or can't justify.Cafc43v3r said:
It has, but I doubt you would see as much churn if we were more consistent. In the 15 season I looked at I think it was 4 in the prem, 2 in the champ, 3 in league 1, 3 in the champ, 3 in league 1. It also includedkillerandflash said:
That’s the reality now for most clubs outside the PL though. How many of the Doncaster team we played in May will still be there next season for example?Cafc43v3r said:
As an experiment I have just counted the center backs we have used for the last 15 years. I have 45. I know I have missed at least 1, the hapless lad from Middlesbrough. I haven't included people like Pratley, Jacko or Cousins who may have filled in their but have included the likes of Diarra and El Kakouri. My list Starts with Rufus, finishes with Bielik but in the middle there is a real mixture of the good, the bad and the bloody useless.SoundAsa£ said:
Agree.....but I wouldn’t mind betting we are easily the current champions in the goalkeeping turnover stakes.Cafc43v3r said:
It's probably a combination of the uniqueness in the position, most of them have actually left us to be number 2s at a bigger club, with mixed long term results.SoundAsa£ said:Indeed......I doubt there is another club in the history of the game who has released/ transferred so many goalkeepers who have then gone on to establish themselves at a higher level in the game.......it’s quite bewildering to be honest as well as costly and somewhat embarrassing. Just why this continues to happen should be looked into.
I have lost count!
Also let's not forget that for most of the last 15 years the club has been a basket case. 4 ownerships, 14 managers and at least 20 diffrent goal keepers. I am not sure how other positions compare in turnover but a lot of people were/are supprised at the relative success others such as Hudson, Francis, McCormack and Fox had when they left us.
But I think in the round we have recruited brilliantly with goal keepers in the that period, managed some badly and retained/disposed of them awfully. I don't think it's a problem unique to Roland's Charlton. It seems to pre date him as well.
I haven't included Cory Gibbs for obvious reasons.
My conclusion. Goal keepers aren't an exception chopping and changing managers and 5 promotions and relegations means we have never had a stable squad for more than 18 months durining that time.
The Bosman ruling has also encouraged this, with players regularly moving on after short contracts expire.
The horrible rebuild under Dowie.
Boom or bust under Pardew.
Parkinson begging and borrow what he could.
Powell trying unteen diffrent players, loans and short term contracts before his massive summer rebuild.
The "network" experiment.
The stupidity of RDs 3rd January window.
That was before the 3 years of almost normality you have described above. In contrast to us Ipswich spent all of those 15 years in the same divison. I suspect their churn, in any position, isn't as much as ours.
Every time you get promoted, there will be players who the management team, whoever they are, think will be unable to make the step up.
A mid table Championship, for example, doesn't have those problems. Unless they decide that they want to push for promotion, and then churn sets in again...
Yep. Teach me to read without thinking. Or think without reading...1 -
The three listed are all better distributors of the ball, which Hendo was awful at, and better at coming off their line, which Hendo never did, part of why we conceded so many set piece goals his final season. Amos arguably a better shot stopper, Phillips close, Steer bit but his distribution the best oh the group.Henry Irving said:
Vast improvement?Viewfinder said:Ben Amos, Jed Steer and Dillon Phillips are proof of the vast improvement in our keepers since the days of Stephen Henderson.
Henderson was good in a bad team.
Other than his fitness he did a good job for us and in a higher division.
Henderson made some excellent saves. More importantly, he came out after the thrashing and he'll always have my respect for that. But as a keeper, he had major flaws, including problems with both shoulders.1 -
Oh, the old distribution myth.
Henderson was and is a decent keeper as his recent move proves.
His injuries have ruined his career.1 -
Doesn’t look like he’s prepared to back up his claims Elfie......we’re still waiting Viewfinder.ElfsborgAddick said:
What did they say about Tony Watt?Viewfinder said:
Henderson was keeper in the season that we (he) conceded three or more goals in each of ten games. It was he and Jackson who grassed up Tony Watt and got him bounced out of the club.The Red Robin said:Don't need him. Let's stop the obsession of signing ex-players.1 -
It's another Charlton life opinion that has become fact.Henry Irving said:Oh, the old distribution myth.
Henderson was and is a decent keeper as his recent move proves.
His injuries have ruined his career.
Best all round keeper we have had since Carson IMO. Injures, piss poor managment, squad fractures, awful team performances and bad luck ruined his second season and sullied many people's memories of him. Again in my opinion.1 -
I'm really surprised at the negative opinions on Henderson. He was fantastic for us in goal, he just had fitness issues. Do people not remember the season when we had a 100% penalty record, which included both the penalties we gave away being saved by Henderson (the second of which was an incredible save)? He was superb and the opinion on here at the time was that he was the best we'd had in years, if he could only stay fit. Feels like he's a victim of having been around during one of the worst seasons in living memory. You can blame him for conceding as many goals as he did that season if you want, but considering he had Roger Johnson, Rhys Williams and Karel Fraeye to put up with I'm a bit amazed it wasn't more.
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Couldn't agree more.Garrymanilow said:I'm really surprised at the negative opinions on Henderson. He was fantastic for us in goal, he just had fitness issues. Do people not remember the season when we had a 100% penalty record, which included both the penalties we gave away being saved by Henderson (the second of which was an incredible save)? He was superb and the opinion on here at the time was that he was the best we'd had in years, if he could only stay fit. Feels like he's a victim of having been around during one of the worst seasons in living memory. You can blame him for conceding as many goals as he did that season if you want, but considering he had Roger Johnson, Rhys Williams and Karel Fraeye to put up with I'm a bit amazed it wasn't more.
P. S Rhys Williams was the player from Middlesbrough I knew I hadn't counted. Thanks1 -
Steve Gritt's testimonial against Spurs. He even saved a penalty .Cafc43v3r said:
I am sure this guy played for us, think it was a testimonial at sellout Park, sure he saved a pen as well. He is availablericky_otto said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_Hamilton1 - Sponsored links:
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That's the one, didn't say he played for us on his wiki but I was sure I wasn't making it up.Richard J said:
Steve Gritt's testimonial against Spurs. He even saved a penalty .Cafc43v3r said:
I am sure this guy played for us, think it was a testimonial at sellout Park, sure he saved a pen as well. He is availablericky_otto said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_Hamilton1 -
Peter Guthrie from Spurs was another cover keeper for Bolder from around this time.Cafc43v3r said:
That's the one, didn't say he played for us on his wiki but I was sure I wasn't making it up.Richard J said:
Steve Gritt's testimonial against Spurs. He even saved a penalty .Cafc43v3r said:
I am sure this guy played for us, think it was a testimonial at sellout Park, sure he saved a pen as well. He is availablericky_otto said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_Hamilton
We didn't have a proper reserve keeper between Nicky Johns leaving and Mike Salmon coming in two years later. Thank God Bolder wasn't injury prone.2 -
Headerson was a fine keeper. The biggest problem with him was his injury record. Which was mainly to do with his shoulders, which is very unfortunate for a keeper.
The fact of the matter is, though, his wage demands would be prohibitive, especially for a keeper who will, I'm sure, be told by the management team that he will only be back up.
I don't think anyone will argue that Dillon ha earned the right to start the season as No. 1...3 -
It’s good, sensible business by Palace really. He’s a competent keeper and should be less likely to get injured on a bench so they can splash the cash on a more important signing.
Why waste wages on a position you’re unlikely to use unless you give them a couple of cup games...0 -
Lost the use of his fingers it seems.SoundAsa£ said:
Doesn’t look like he’s prepared to back up his claims Elfie......we’re still waiting Viewfinder.ElfsborgAddick said:
What did they say about Tony Watt?Viewfinder said:
Henderson was keeper in the season that we (he) conceded three or more goals in each of ten games. It was he and Jackson who grassed up Tony Watt and got him bounced out of the club.The Red Robin said:Don't need him. Let's stop the obsession of signing ex-players.0 -
Henderson was okay but certainly not outstanding.1
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He'll be 3rd choice keeper so barring injuries will have most matchdays off!Fumbluff said:It’s good, sensible business by Palace really. He’s a competent keeper and should be less likely to get injured on a bench so they can splash the cash on a more important signing.
Why waste wages on a position you’re unlikely to use unless you give them a couple of cup games...1 -
His distribution wasn't that good. And he didn't come off his line for crosses or dead balls. Our penalty record with him was good, but our set piece record was awful. Again, good shot stopper. Not that well rounded though.Henry Irving said:Oh, the old distribution myth.
Henderson was and is a decent keeper as his recent move proves.
His injuries have ruined his career.
@Garrymanilow to your point, I'm sure there will be some who remember him for that final season. But by the second half of the season he was either out injured or second choice. So yes, you have results like the Hudds and Hull ones, which were bad, but that's not what I remember him for. Also, Rhys Williams and Roger Johnson played, I would guess, 6-7 league matches between them that season. It came at a terrible and particularly noticeable time. But what I feel a lot of people forget is just how bad we were from set pieces that year, and how much better we became when Pope and Riga came in, and Pope came off his line to command his area, and look to start counters with quick distribution.
Since leaving us, he has played 16 league games.
I think he's a perfectly decent pick as a third choice keeper for Palace. But that's...not exactly a ringing endorsement.1 -
He is too young.Cafc43v3r said:
I am sure this guy played for us, think it was a testimonial at sellout Park, sure he saved a pen as well. He is availablericky_otto said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsay_Hamilton1 -
https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/goalkeeper-on-signing-deal-with-crystal-palace-it-would-be-amazing-to-play-in-front-of-eagles-fans-at-selhurst-park/
“It’s a privileged position [to play for a Premier League club] so I’m delighted to get it over the line. I spoke to [goalkeeper coach] Dean Kiely and he said: ‘Do you fancy coming in and having the opportunity to work with the lads?’ Obviously it’s a no-brainer and I jumped at the opportunity.
Painful...
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Ben Amos nearly succeeded in his mission last year
Agent Henderson, you know what you have to do!!6 -
Back as interim GK coach12
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Good move for both partiesHenry Irving said:Back as interim GK coach5 -
He's got to be in with a chance of being named on the bench when one or other of our incumbents inevitably breaks downcafc999 said:
Good move for both partiesHenry Irving said:Back as interim GK coach1 -
he had the minerals to come out and face the press after conceding 5 odd goals after a game when karel fraeye hid. Great character and great he's back as keeping coach.Garrymanilow said:I'm really surprised at the negative opinions on Henderson. He was fantastic for us in goal, he just had fitness issues. Do people not remember the season when we had a 100% penalty record, which included both the penalties we gave away being saved by Henderson (the second of which was an incredible save)? He was superb and the opinion on here at the time was that he was the best we'd had in years, if he could only stay fit. Feels like he's a victim of having been around during one of the worst seasons in living memory. You can blame him for conceding as many goals as he did that season if you want, but considering he had Roger Johnson, Rhys Williams and Karel Fraeye to put up with I'm a bit amazed it wasn't more.6 -
Thanks for reminding me I was there 😫 Huddersfield away 0-5 Reza got sent off after coming on as sub and Solly gave him his life history as as he trudged off. We then went to Hull 4 days later and lost 0-6 with Boro loanee Rhys Williams at CB gift wrapping goals away Rega was back in charge after Fromage had been relieved of his duties IIRC.kentaddick said:
he had the minerals to come out and face the press after conceding 5 odd goals after a game when karel fraeye hid. Great character and great he's back as keeping coach.Garrymanilow said:I'm really surprised at the negative opinions on Henderson. He was fantastic for us in goal, he just had fitness issues. Do people not remember the season when we had a 100% penalty record, which included both the penalties we gave away being saved by Henderson (the second of which was an incredible save)? He was superb and the opinion on here at the time was that he was the best we'd had in years, if he could only stay fit. Feels like he's a victim of having been around during one of the worst seasons in living memory. You can blame him for conceding as many goals as he did that season if you want, but considering he had Roger Johnson, Rhys Williams and Karel Fraeye to put up with I'm a bit amazed it wasn't more.1 -
Apparently he’s already agreed to do the interview after the Fleetwood defeat.21
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See him all the time at the tennis club as he plays a lot of padel. Likeable bloke and looks in better nick than when he played for us.1
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What's padel?stop_shouting said:See him all the time at the tennis club as he plays a lot of padel. Likeable bloke and looks in better nick than when he played for us.0 -
Kap10 said:
What's padel?stop_shouting said:See him all the time at the tennis club as he plays a lot of padel. Likeable bloke and looks in better nick than when he played for us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSIvS-Skg28
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