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Failing to name driver prosecution

cafcfan1990
cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
in Not Sports Related
My friend has been hit with an £800 fine and a 6 month driving ban for failing to name the driver

Firstly, I realise what a prat he has been. He could have asked for help with this in the last 6 months but buried his head in the sand.

He was driving 36 in a 30 zone in early January. It was a company van and he left that job almost straight away and ended up getting paperwork in early February. For reasons I cannot give, he didn't respond to this and admits he got a couple of further letters over the next couple of months.

But he got a court letter yesterday banning him for 6 months and a £800 fine which seems over the top! He is adamant he never got a letter saying there was any hearing but has got this through now.

Does anyone have any advise? He had a clean license so the ban seems extremely harsh, I accept ignoring it was absolutely ridicilous but this seems OTT. He is obviously accepting the fine. He has had a rough time so I did say I would help in anyway I can.

I know a bit about Law to be honest but this isn't my area in any way. Cheers in advance.
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Comments

  • paulie8290
    paulie8290 Posts: 23,344
    I am confused you said he has been banned and fined for failing to name the driver.

    Then u said he was driving 36 in a 30 zone.

    So if he was driving why did he need to name someone else.

    Or am I just being thick
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Huskaris said:

    Sorry to hijack your thread but I have a friend too and he has erectile dysfunction. Any ideas?

    With that hilarious response that's hard to believe...
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    paulie8290 said:

    I am confused you said he has been banned and fined for failing to name the driver.

    Then u said he was driving 36 in a 30 zone.

    So if he was driving why did he need to name someone else.

    Or am I just being thick

    Because it was a company vehicle he got a letter through asking if he was the driver. Like I said, he undoubtedly buried his head as he was going through a bit of shit in Feb/March.

    Probably worded it wrong because he should have named the driver as himself, but he's not disputing the fact he was driving.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,008
    I watch them police Interceptor programmes.

    It seems to me that the punishment for driving with no licence / being banned /no insurance / no tax is a further ban and a fine of about £200.

    So it seems to me that's is far cheaper to steal a car whilst never having passed a test/being disqualified, no tax or insurance as you're fine is less than the insurance premium.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Covered End said:

    I watch them police Interceptor programmes.

    It seems to me that the punishment for driving with no licence / being banned /no insurance / no tax is a further ban and a fine of about £200.

    So it seems to me that's is far cheaper to steal a car whilst never having passed a test/being disqualified, no tax or insurance as you're fine is less than the insurance premium.

    agreed, seen a couple myself and they seem to come down a lot harder on the hard working lot who are driving 36 in a 30 then those little scum bags stealing off said families.

    In this case, he had no excuse for not supplying the information. Just couldn't face the fine and then forgot about it I guess.
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    edited July 2018
    Pretty much all you your friend needs to know is here. https://ashfords.co.uk/news-and-events/general/what-is-failing-to-provide-driver-information

    The crucial bit is the "strict liability offence" thing. A conviction can still happen even if one does not receive the request for information. (See section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 for an explanation).

    The max penalty seems to be six points and £1,000. So I assume he's got done for the offence as well as the failure to respond. With the penalty being near to the upper end, I assume the Mags took umbrage re your friend dissing the Court by not responding.

    He was a silly boy and needs to suck it up.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,008
    It seems that some of the younger generation believe that if you "bury your head in the sand" it will all go away.

    I respectfully suggest that your friend learns his lesson and isn't as foolish again.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    yeah maybe he will have to suck it up. I haven't seen the paperwork so it's possible he got done for the speeding at the same time.
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    cafcfan1990 said:

    yeah maybe he will have to suck it up. I haven't seen the paperwork so it's possible he got done for the speeding at the same time.

    Particularly sad as at 36 in a 30 and a previous clean licence, if he'd complied he'd probably just got away with a speed awareness course and no points. His future insurance quotes are likely to be a very painful read too.
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  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    cafcfan said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    yeah maybe he will have to suck it up. I haven't seen the paperwork so it's possible he got done for the speeding at the same time.

    Particularly sad as at 36 in a 30 and a previous clean licence, if he'd complied he'd probably just got away with a speed awareness course and no points. His future insurance quotes are likely to be a very painful read too.
    agreed, just did the license check online and it says " TT99: ‘totting-up’ - if the total of penalty points reaches 12 or more within 3 years".

    But then clearly states he only has 6 points.
  • DaveMehmet
    DaveMehmet Posts: 21,601
    cafcfan1990 said:

    cafcfan said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    yeah maybe he will have to suck it up. I haven't seen the paperwork so it's possible he got done for the speeding at the same time.

    Particularly sad as at 36 in a 30 and a previous clean licence, if he'd complied he'd probably just got away with a speed awareness course and no points. His future insurance quotes are likely to be a very painful read too.
    agreed, just did the license check online and it says " TT99: ‘totting-up’ - if the total of penalty points reaches 12 or more within 3 years".

    But then clearly states he only has 6 points.
    Don’t new drivers get a ban if they get 6 points within a certain period after pasig their test?
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    edited July 2018
    You get what you deserve, he should have dealt with it immediately.
  • moutuakilla
    moutuakilla Posts: 7,568
    DaveMehmet said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    cafcfan said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    yeah maybe he will have to suck it up. I haven't seen the paperwork so it's possible he got done for the speeding at the same time.

    Particularly sad as at 36 in a 30 and a previous clean licence, if he'd complied he'd probably just got away with a speed awareness course and no points. His future insurance quotes are likely to be a very painful read too.
    agreed, just did the license check online and it says " TT99: ‘totting-up’ - if the total of penalty points reaches 12 or more within 3 years".

    But then clearly states he only has 6 points.
    Don’t new drivers get a ban if they get 6 points within a certain period after pasig their test?
    Within two years, yes
  • Kap10
    Kap10 Posts: 15,572
    Tell him to talk to a solicitor, he maybe able to appeal the sentence based on previous good record, whatever he was going through at the time and the risk to livelihood and support of his family!
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    https://themotoringlaw.uk/tt99-conviction-code-insurance/

    The insurance quotes for a fictional tt99 here are more than eye-watering. £9.5k for an ancient fiesta suggests they didn't want the business!
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    Dazzler21 said:

    You get what you deserve, he should have dealt with it immediately.

    Appreciated but not the most helpful response in the world.

    He was going through a lot of shit which is a partial excuse, but I can't disagree he deserves consequences for being stupid.
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    DaveMehmet said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    cafcfan said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    yeah maybe he will have to suck it up. I haven't seen the paperwork so it's possible he got done for the speeding at the same time.

    Particularly sad as at 36 in a 30 and a previous clean licence, if he'd complied he'd probably just got away with a speed awareness course and no points. His future insurance quotes are likely to be a very painful read too.
    agreed, just did the license check online and it says " TT99: ‘totting-up’ - if the total of penalty points reaches 12 or more within 3 years".

    But then clearly states he only has 6 points.
    Don’t new drivers get a ban if they get 6 points within a certain period after pasig their test?
    I could be wrong here but I think it's worse than that. I recall your licence is revoked and you have to re-take the test.
  • cafcfan
    cafcfan Posts: 11,198
    edited July 2018
    cafcfan1990 said:

    cafcfan said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    yeah maybe he will have to suck it up. I haven't seen the paperwork so it's possible he got done for the speeding at the same time.

    Particularly sad as at 36 in a 30 and a previous clean licence, if he'd complied he'd probably just got away with a speed awareness course and no points. His future insurance quotes are likely to be a very painful read too.
    agreed, just did the license check online and it says " TT99: ‘totting-up’ - if the total of penalty points reaches 12 or more within 3 years".

    But then clearly states he only has 6 points.
    Sounds a bit weird he needs to get rid of that TT99 if he can.

    Edited to add: This guy is highly regarded for motoring stuff. counsel.direct/
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    He's been driving around 12 years. I believe he got 3 points about 7 years ago but nothing other than that.
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  • SuedeAdidas
    SuedeAdidas Posts: 7,741
    cafcfan1990 said:

    He's been driving around 12 years. I believe he got 3 points about 7 years ago but nothing other than that.

    He’s lying.
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    SuedeAdidas said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    He's been driving around 12 years. I believe he got 3 points about 7 years ago but nothing other than that.

    He’s lying.
    possibly but I have been on the gov site and it says he has 6 live points and a ban for totting up which doesn't seem to add up but it's there in black and white.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,633
    Whilst on his ban, it will appear as TT99, then after he has served his ban, it will revert back to 6 pts.
  • i_b_b_o_r_g
    i_b_b_o_r_g Posts: 18,948
    edited July 2018
    Come @cafcfan1990 , time to come clean.

    Why did you bury your head in the sand ?!?
  • usetobunkin
    usetobunkin Posts: 2,184
    Its not the driving , its the " perverting the course of justice"
  • The Prince-e-Paul
    The Prince-e-Paul Posts: 6,688
    edited July 2018
    A nurse friend of mine (I am not a nurse just in case any if you were wondering) already had 9 points on her licence and got caught going through two cans on the M1 smart motorway section. This accrued a further 6 points. She attended court with a solicitor and sue to the potential impact to her and the NHS she was given a £600 fine but allowed to keep her licence which now has 15 points on it.
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 52,008
    usetobunkin said:

    Its not the driving , its the " perverting the course of justice"

    This. The courts take great exception to perjury, non attendance, contempt etc.
  • Fumbluff
    Fumbluff Posts: 10,127
    SuedeAdidas said:

    cafcfan1990 said:

    He's been driving around 12 years. I believe he got 3 points about 7 years ago but nothing other than that.

    He’s lying.
    I don’t need nobody else. I love you..
  • Leroy Ambrose
    Leroy Ambrose Posts: 14,436
    edited August 2018
    The Prince-e-Paul said:

    A nurse friend of mine (I am not a nurse just in case any if you were wondering) already had 9 points on her licence and got caught going through two cans on the M1 smart motorway section. This accrued a further 6 points. She attended court with a solicitor and sue to the potential impact to her and the NHS she was given a £600 fine but allowed to keep her licence which now has 15 points on it.

    It's this sort of shit that makes a mockery of the whole system. How the fuck you get nine points on your license in the first place, let alone be stupid enough to then speed again, knowing you're one flash away from having your license taken away is beyond me. To then game the fucking system into allowing you to keep your license makes my blood boil. No wonder people think they can speed with impunity, and feel invincible when doing so
  • cafcfan1990
    cafcfan1990 Posts: 12,811
    i_b_b_o_r_g said:

    Come @cafcfan1990 , time to come clean.

    Why did you bury your head in the sand ?!?

    Very funny but unfortunately you were the third person to suggest that so it's already got boring.

    Many mistakes in my life but burying my head is not one of them. My shit last year taught me to fight everything head on and I wouldn't let something like this happened.

    Not everybody the same though and people make mistakes, I certainly am not holding it against him.

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