This is a bit late to ask, but how in the name of all that's holy did Lokomotiv Moscow get into Pot 1 with the likes of Real, Barca, PSG, Man City etc?
Hang on, gotta phone call...Hallo,...Mr President...may I call you Vlad? What? Oh, I see. Yes of course. No thanks, I can't make it for a cup of tea today...
This is a bit late to ask, but how in the name of all that's holy did Lokomotiv Moscow get into Pot 1 with the likes of Real, Barca, PSG, Man City etc?
Hang on, gotta phone call...Hallo,...Mr President...may I call you Vlad? What? Oh, I see. Yes of course. No thanks, I can't make it for a cup of tea today...
As stated the team who finished top of the highest Co-Eff leagues were in Pot 1.
Russia due to CSKA, normally getting out there groups and Zenit doing well in Europa League have the 6th best league
This is a bit late to ask, but how in the name of all that's holy did Lokomotiv Moscow get into Pot 1 with the likes of Real, Barca, PSG, Man City etc?
Hang on, gotta phone call...Hallo,...Mr President...may I call you Vlad? What? Oh, I see. Yes of course. No thanks, I can't make it for a cup of tea today...
As stated the team who finished top of the highest Co-Eff leagues were in Pot 1.
Russia due to CSKA, normally getting out there groups and Zenit doing well in Europa League have the 6th best league
It has been explained, you come across patronising from the bolded comment Paulio...
This is a bit late to ask, but how in the name of all that's holy did Lokomotiv Moscow get into Pot 1 with the likes of Real, Barca, PSG, Man City etc?
Hang on, gotta phone call...Hallo,...Mr President...may I call you Vlad? What? Oh, I see. Yes of course. No thanks, I can't make it for a cup of tea today...
As stated the team who finished top of the highest Co-Eff leagues were in Pot 1.
Russia due to CSKA, normally getting out there groups and Zenit doing well in Europa League have the 6th best league
It has been explained, you come across patronising from the bolded comment Paulio...
This is a bit late to ask, but how in the name of all that's holy did Lokomotiv Moscow get into Pot 1 with the likes of Real, Barca, PSG, Man City etc?
Hang on, gotta phone call...Hallo,...Mr President...may I call you Vlad? What? Oh, I see. Yes of course. No thanks, I can't make it for a cup of tea today...
As stated the team who finished top of the highest Co-Eff leagues were in Pot 1.
Russia due to CSKA, normally getting out there groups and Zenit doing well in Europa League have the 6th best league
It has been explained, you come across patronising from the bolded comment Paulio...
Apologies if this is the case
I know its not intended as you are not like that, just the heads up bud
This is a bit late to ask, but how in the name of all that's holy did Lokomotiv Moscow get into Pot 1 with the likes of Real, Barca, PSG, Man City etc?
Hang on, gotta phone call...Hallo,...Mr President...may I call you Vlad? What? Oh, I see. Yes of course. No thanks, I can't make it for a cup of tea today...
As stated the team who finished top of the highest Co-Eff leagues were in Pot 1.
Russia due to CSKA, normally getting out there groups and Zenit doing well in Europa League have the 6th best league
It has been explained, you come across patronising from the bolded comment Paulio...
Apologies if this is the case
No problem for me, I should have been paying attention, so kinda deserved it. Not an expert on all this co-eff stuff.
Hope they finish bottom of their group, its a joke group already. As stated :-)
Without the usual conspiracry theories I'd love to know how Russia is the sixth best European League
Since 2012 only twice have a Russian side (Zenit) made it out of the Group Stages whereas Portugal and Ukraine who have the 7th and 8th best Leagues in Europe seem to regularly get a team into the 2nd Round
Especially as last year the Portuguese League was ahead of France and Russia with FC Porto having a better Champions League campaign than any Russian side yet this year is below both of them... Unless I'm getting it wrong and the co-efficient is based on something else?
Without the usual conspiracry theories I'd love to know how Russia is the sixth best European League
Since 2012 only twice have a Russian side (Zenit) made it out of the Group Stages whereas Portugal and Ukraine who have the 7th and 8th best Leagues in Europe seem to regularly get a team into the 2nd Round
Especially as last year the Portuguese League was ahead of France and Russia with FC Porto having a better Champions League campaign than any Russian side yet this year is below both of them... Unless I'm getting it wrong and the co-efficient is based on something else?
Glad its not just me, then. Finding out just what the co- efficient is based on, is a harder task than getting an unredacted version of the Olympic Stadium contract. Not least because they seem to keep changing the criteria.
Without the usual conspiracry theories I'd love to know how Russia is the sixth best European League
Since 2012 only twice have a Russian side (Zenit) made it out of the Group Stages whereas Portugal and Ukraine who have the 7th and 8th best Leagues in Europe seem to regularly get a team into the 2nd Round
Especially as last year the Portuguese League was ahead of France and Russia with FC Porto having a better Champions League campaign than any Russian side yet this year is below both of them... Unless I'm getting it wrong and the co-efficient is based on something else?
Glad its not just me, then. Finding out just what the co- efficient is based on, is a harder task than getting an unredacted version of the Olympic Stadium contract. Not least because they seem to keep changing the criteria.
Having had another read it seems the Country Coefficient takes into consideration every team from a country in Europe regardless if its the Champions League or Europa League - Because of that, despite the likes of Porto and Benfica doing better in the Champions League, Russian sides have done better than their Portuguese counter parts in the Europa League which gives them the edge
i.e. In 2016/17 it was just Porto who got to the Round of 16 in the Champions League, no Russian side managed it - Whereas in the Europa League: Krasnodar and Rostov got to the Round of 16 whilst no Portuguese even got out of the Group Stages
*Note the Round of 16 in the Europa League is further in the competition than the Round of 16 for the Champions League as there are more teams
“This coefficient is determined by the results of the clubs of the associations in the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Europa League games over the past five seasons. Two points are awarded for each win by a club, and one for a draw (points are halved in the qualifying and playoff rounds). Results determined by extra time do count in determining the allocation of points, but results determined by penalty-shootouts do not affect the allocation of points, other than for bonus points given for qualification into the latter rounds of the Champions League or the Europa League. The number of points awarded each season is divided by the number of teams that participated for that association in that season. This number is then rounded down to three decimal places (e.g. 2⅔ would be rounded to 2.666).
To determine a country's coefficient for a particular season, the coefficients for the last five seasons are added. Bonus points are added to the number of points scored in a season. Bonus points are allocated for:
- Clubs that reach the quarter-finals, semi-finals, or final of either the UEFA Champions League or the UEFA Europa League (1 bonus point). - Clubs that qualify for the group stage of the Champions League (4 bonus points). - Clubs that qualify for the round of 16 of the Champions League (5 bonus points).”
“This coefficient is determined by the results of the clubs of the associations in the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Europa League games over the past five seasons. Two points are awarded for each win by a club, and one for a draw (points are halved in the qualifying and playoff rounds). Results determined by extra time do count in determining the allocation of points, but results determined by penalty-shootouts do not affect the allocation of points, other than for bonus points given for qualification into the latter rounds of the Champions League or the Europa League. The number of points awarded each season is divided by the number of teams that participated for that association in that season. This number is then rounded down to three decimal places (e.g. 2⅔ would be rounded to 2.666).
To determine a country's coefficient for a particular season, the coefficients for the last five seasons are added. Bonus points are added to the number of points scored in a season. Bonus points are allocated for:
- Clubs that reach the quarter-finals, semi-finals, or final of either the UEFA Champions League or the UEFA Europa League (1 bonus point). - Clubs that qualify for the group stage of the Champions League (4 bonus points). - Clubs that qualify for the round of 16 of the Champions League (5 bonus points).”
Yes, Wikipedia is my source. Deal with it.
Wiki is bloody brilliant for this sort of information these days
Without the usual conspiracry theories I'd love to know how Russia is the sixth best European League
Since 2012 only twice have a Russian side (Zenit) made it out of the Group Stages whereas Portugal and Ukraine who have the 7th and 8th best Leagues in Europe seem to regularly get a team into the 2nd Round
Especially as last year the Portuguese League was ahead of France and Russia with FC Porto having a better Champions League campaign than any Russian side yet this year is below both of them... Unless I'm getting it wrong and the co-efficient is based on something else?
Glad its not just me, then. Finding out just what the co- efficient is based on, is a harder task than getting an unredacted version of the Olympic Stadium contract. Not least because they seem to keep changing the criteria.
Having had another read it seems the Country Coefficient takes into consideration every team from a country in Europe regardless if its the Champions League or Europa League - Because of that, despite the likes of Porto and Benfica doing better in the Champions League, Russian sides have done better than their Portuguese counter parts in the Europa League which gives them the edge
i.e. In 2016/17 it was just Porto who got to the Round of 16 in the Champions League, no Russian side managed it - Whereas in the Europa League: Krasnodar and Rostov got to the Round of 16 whilst no Portuguese even got out of the Group Stages
*Note the Round of 16 in the Europa League is further in the competition than the Round of 16 for the Champions League as there are more teams
Doesnt make sense if someone goes to same stage Champions league they get less points, it does but i mean it shouldn't be. Europa is a level/class below and you could easily go to quarters without playing anyone. Stupid system really, anyone who makes the champions league should get more points than someone in Europa.
Without the usual conspiracry theories I'd love to know how Russia is the sixth best European League
Since 2012 only twice have a Russian side (Zenit) made it out of the Group Stages whereas Portugal and Ukraine who have the 7th and 8th best Leagues in Europe seem to regularly get a team into the 2nd Round
Especially as last year the Portuguese League was ahead of France and Russia with FC Porto having a better Champions League campaign than any Russian side yet this year is below both of them... Unless I'm getting it wrong and the co-efficient is based on something else?
Glad its not just me, then. Finding out just what the co- efficient is based on, is a harder task than getting an unredacted version of the Olympic Stadium contract. Not least because they seem to keep changing the criteria.
Having had another read it seems the Country Coefficient takes into consideration every team from a country in Europe regardless if its the Champions League or Europa League - Because of that, despite the likes of Porto and Benfica doing better in the Champions League, Russian sides have done better than their Portuguese counter parts in the Europa League which gives them the edge
i.e. In 2016/17 it was just Porto who got to the Round of 16 in the Champions League, no Russian side managed it - Whereas in the Europa League: Krasnodar and Rostov got to the Round of 16 whilst no Portuguese even got out of the Group Stages
*Note the Round of 16 in the Europa League is further in the competition than the Round of 16 for the Champions League as there are more teams
Doesnt make sense if someone goes to same stage Champions league they get less points, it does but i mean it shouldn't be. Europa is a level/class below and you could easily go to quarters without playing anyone. Stupid system really, anyone who makes the champions league should get more points than someone in Europa.
Yeah what confuses me is the bonus points mentioned in Callum's post
Otherwise you would expect it to be like the FIFA Rankings where a World Cup match would be 4-pts whilst a Euros match would be worth 3-pts ... and I can only use that loosly now as they've changed the FIFA Ranking system again
I dont want to get all conspiracy theorist but any system which ranks Krasnodar above Porto is deeply flawed. Trust me, I've had to sit through 93 minutes of watching Krasnodar in the flesh.
I dont want to get all conspiracy theorist but any system which ranks Krasnodar above Porto is deeply flawed. Trust me, I've had to sit through 93 minutes of watching Krasnodar in the flesh.
Krasnodar (23.5k pts) arent above Porto (86k pts) in the rankings - They just got more ranking points for the Russian Premier League in the 2016/17 season than FC Porto did for the Portuguese League
Basically if you win and do well, your not just improving your own ranking your also helping the other teams in your country
I dont want to get all conspiracy theorist but any system which ranks Krasnodar above Porto is deeply flawed. Trust me, I've had to sit through 93 minutes of watching Krasnodar in the flesh.
Krasnodar (23.5k pts) arent above Porto (86k pts) in the rankings - They just got more ranking points for the Russian Premier League in the 2016/17 season than FC Porto did for the Portuguese League
Basically if you win and do well, your not just improving your own ranking your also helping the other teams in your country
I don't know how I feel about that. Is it a good system? Whom does it benefit? From where I sit now, you 've got Lokomotiv in Pot 1, and then getting a bloody lucky group draw too, despite that:
Last season, Lokomotiv progressed the furthest they have ever managed in Europe, in the Europa League to be defeated by eventual champions Atletico Madrid in the Last 16.
(and btw last season Viktoria were like Lokomotiv in the last 16 of the EL)
and the result is that CSKA, a far more consistent and formidable European performer, are the 3rd team in Viktoria's group. And btw in Europa League last season Viktoria got a round further than
There's only one way Viktoria got straight into into the group stage: their own hard work. Champions five times in 7 seasons, I think it was, that did it. Little help from their other Czech club counterparts. Sparta had a bit of a run in the EL the previous season, beating Southampton among others, but mainly its been Viktoria on their own.
Seems to me the system looks to cement the clubs of the "big| leagues in the top places. Except that Russia, come on, is that a big league, their clubs punch below their weight year after year as their own fans often admit. Krasnodar, you're having a laugh.
So its only Pot One thats decided on the top six Leagues in Europe
Pots Two | Three | Four are based on an individual team and their coefficient so if Viktoria continue to win the Czech First League and continue to do well in the Champions League, their coefficient should rise (they're only 3k off being in Pot three) and they'll stand a chance of being in a better Group
I guess if other Czech sides like Sparta and Slavia start to perform in Europe they'll improve the Coefficient for the Czech First League (Viktoria could do it on their own yet would be bloody difficult for them), with Viktoria currently being the Champions (most years) yes they'd effectively be helping Viktoria to have a better chance in the Champions League but whats the say the year that a Czech side gets into Pot One it isnt Sparta or Slavia
Not to mention a rise up the rankings could give the Czechs an extra spot in the Champions League in the first place - Would seem strange for that reason for them (Slavia and Sparta etc.) not to put the effort in Europe as they would simply be cutting their nose to spite their face
Its why its strange to an extent why Celtic fans and Rangers fans love it when the other has a bad year in Europe
Its because other Scottish sides have done so poorly that Scotland lost their second Champions League spot... didnt really matter when it was just Celtic with no competition yet if Rangers do start to challenge them for the title, it would be in Celtic's best interests if Rangers were helping to improve their coefficient because it would mean that despite finishing second; Celtic would still be in the Champions League the following year and so not take so much of a financial hit
Slavia and Sparta do make the effort. They are however run by idiots; in Slavia's case a murky arm of the Chinese state, fronted by a Czech ex politician whose previous business experience consisted of bankrupting the Czech national airline. Sparta's owner behaves more like Roland Duchatelet every day, which at least helps my mate Mad Vincent and I cry into our beers together.
Do you happen to know, if Viktoria are champions again this season, that will improve their figures enough to get into Pot 3? They are away at Slavia tomorrow, (I'm going), and I think if they can win, that's the job half done.
Slavia and Sparta do make the effort. They are however run by idiots; in Slavia's case a murky arm of the Chinese state, fronted by a Czech ex politician whose previous business experience consisted of bankrupting the Czech national airline. Sparta's owner behaves more like Roland Duchatelet every day, which at least helps my mate Mad Vincent and I cry into our beers together.
Do you happen to know, if Viktoria are champions again this season, that will improve their figures enough to get into Pot 3? They are away at Slavia tomorrow, (I'm going), and I think if they can win, that's the job half done.
I suppose it depends on the following:
(1) How they do in the Champions League this year (2) Who else is in the Champions League next year
In terms of the latter you probably wont like this yet with Vitkoria on 33,000 points they're the highest ranked team in Pot Four... the two lowest teams from pot three were PSV Eindhoven and Valencia on 36,000 points - Valencia were never in doubt for P3 as Spain | England | German | Italy get four spots in the Group Stages so dont have to go through qualification anymore
PSV Eindhoven though had to go through a Qualifer against BATE Borosov though... Had BATE won (Never in doubt as they lost 6-2 on agg) then BATE's coefficient ranking (20.500) would have seen Vitkoria in Pot Three
At the same time though (Have just noticed this doing my research for you); the Czech teams need to be consious of how the Swiss teams do... As already mentioned; Viktoria get an automatic spot for the Group Stages,
- the Czech League is currently on 33.175 pts - the Swiss League is currently on 32.075 pts - the Dutch League is currently on 31.063 pts
If just one of those Leagues gets above the Czech League then they'll lose their spot in the Group Stages, and both Czech teams will then be forced to go through a Qualifying Stage or two
At the moment (because the Coefficient points only span five years) it seems as though the Czech League needs to have a damned good year because based on its current points for 2018/19 its nose diving... Either that or the Czech League has been so high because its teams did so well in 2013/14, because that season has now gone, those points have been lost
Bloody hell. I certainly appreciate your research.
There isnt a cat in hell's chance of them progressing at the expense of Real or Roma. Its all about taking 4 pts off the "rusky svine" and having another decent run in the Europa League. And using the money to build the stadium up a bit, I think. Theyd fill it 4x over for Real.
Some good fixtures tonight, bit stupid changing kick off times imo. I can see it kind of worked for Europa but why change the Champions league? stupid decision!
Kind of annoying as i wont be home until 7 so will miss Spurs game and only catch 2nd half, also think if any fans or going they obviously haven't factor'd in, all down to stupid tv rights.
Comments
Hang on, gotta phone call...Hallo,...Mr President...may I call you Vlad? What? Oh, I see. Yes of course. No thanks, I can't make it for a cup of tea today...
Russia due to CSKA, normally getting out there groups and Zenit doing well in Europa League have the 6th best league
Hope they finish bottom of their group, its a joke group already. As stated :-)
Since 2012 only twice have a Russian side (Zenit) made it out of the Group Stages whereas Portugal and Ukraine who have the 7th and 8th best Leagues in Europe seem to regularly get a team into the 2nd Round
Especially as last year the Portuguese League was ahead of France and Russia with FC Porto having a better Champions League campaign than any Russian side yet this year is below both of them... Unless I'm getting it wrong and the co-efficient is based on something else?
i.e. In 2016/17 it was just Porto who got to the Round of 16 in the Champions League, no Russian side managed it - Whereas in the Europa League: Krasnodar and Rostov got to the Round of 16 whilst no Portuguese even got out of the Group Stages
*Note the Round of 16 in the Europa League is further in the competition than the Round of 16 for the Champions League as there are more teams
To determine a country's coefficient for a particular season, the coefficients for the last five seasons are added. Bonus points are added to the number of points scored in a season. Bonus points are allocated for:
- Clubs that reach the quarter-finals, semi-finals, or final of either the UEFA Champions League or the UEFA Europa League (1 bonus point).
- Clubs that qualify for the group stage of the Champions League (4 bonus points).
- Clubs that qualify for the round of 16 of the Champions League (5 bonus points).”
Yes, Wikipedia is my source. Deal with it.
Otherwise you would expect it to be like the FIFA Rankings where a World Cup match would be 4-pts whilst a Euros match would be worth 3-pts ... and I can only use that loosly now as they've changed the FIFA Ranking system again
Basically if you win and do well, your not just improving your own ranking your also helping the other teams in your country
Last season, Lokomotiv progressed the furthest they have ever managed in Europe, in the Europa League to be defeated by eventual champions Atletico Madrid in the Last 16.
(and btw last season Viktoria were like Lokomotiv in the last 16 of the EL)
and the result is that CSKA, a far more consistent and formidable European performer, are the 3rd team in Viktoria's group. And btw in Europa League last season Viktoria got a round further than
There's only one way Viktoria got straight into into the group stage: their own hard work. Champions five times in 7 seasons, I think it was, that did it. Little help from their other Czech club counterparts. Sparta had a bit of a run in the EL the previous season, beating Southampton among others, but mainly its been Viktoria on their own.
Seems to me the system looks to cement the clubs of the "big| leagues in the top places. Except that Russia, come on, is that a big league, their clubs punch below their weight year after year as their own fans often admit. Krasnodar, you're having a laugh.
Pots Two | Three | Four are based on an individual team and their coefficient so if Viktoria continue to win the Czech First League and continue to do well in the Champions League, their coefficient should rise (they're only 3k off being in Pot three) and they'll stand a chance of being in a better Group
I guess if other Czech sides like Sparta and Slavia start to perform in Europe they'll improve the Coefficient for the Czech First League (Viktoria could do it on their own yet would be bloody difficult for them), with Viktoria currently being the Champions (most years) yes they'd effectively be helping Viktoria to have a better chance in the Champions League but whats the say the year that a Czech side gets into Pot One it isnt Sparta or Slavia
Not to mention a rise up the rankings could give the Czechs an extra spot in the Champions League in the first place - Would seem strange for that reason for them (Slavia and Sparta etc.) not to put the effort in Europe as they would simply be cutting their nose to spite their face
Its because other Scottish sides have done so poorly that Scotland lost their second Champions League spot... didnt really matter when it was just Celtic with no competition yet if Rangers do start to challenge them for the title, it would be in Celtic's best interests if Rangers were helping to improve their coefficient because it would mean that despite finishing second; Celtic would still be in the Champions League the following year and so not take so much of a financial hit
Slavia and Sparta do make the effort. They are however run by idiots; in Slavia's case a murky arm of the Chinese state, fronted by a Czech ex politician whose previous business experience consisted of bankrupting the Czech national airline. Sparta's owner behaves more like Roland Duchatelet every day, which at least helps my mate Mad Vincent and I cry into our beers together.
Do you happen to know, if Viktoria are champions again this season, that will improve their figures enough to get into Pot 3? They are away at Slavia tomorrow, (I'm going), and I think if they can win, that's the job half done.
(1) How they do in the Champions League this year
(2) Who else is in the Champions League next year
In terms of the latter you probably wont like this yet with Vitkoria on 33,000 points they're the highest ranked team in Pot Four... the two lowest teams from pot three were PSV Eindhoven and Valencia on 36,000 points - Valencia were never in doubt for P3 as Spain | England | German | Italy get four spots in the Group Stages so dont have to go through qualification anymore
PSV Eindhoven though had to go through a Qualifer against BATE Borosov though... Had BATE won (Never in doubt as they lost 6-2 on agg) then BATE's coefficient ranking (20.500) would have seen Vitkoria in Pot Three
At the same time though (Have just noticed this doing my research for you); the Czech teams need to be consious of how the Swiss teams do... As already mentioned; Viktoria get an automatic spot for the Group Stages,
- the Czech League is currently on 33.175 pts
- the Swiss League is currently on 32.075 pts
- the Dutch League is currently on 31.063 pts
If just one of those Leagues gets above the Czech League then they'll lose their spot in the Group Stages, and both Czech teams will then be forced to go through a Qualifying Stage or two
At the moment (because the Coefficient points only span five years) it seems as though the Czech League needs to have a damned good year because based on its current points for 2018/19 its nose diving... Either that or the Czech League has been so high because its teams did so well in 2013/14, because that season has now gone, those points have been lost
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Country_coefficient
Bloody hell. I certainly appreciate your research.
There isnt a cat in hell's chance of them progressing at the expense of Real or Roma. Its all about taking 4 pts off the "rusky svine" and having another decent run in the Europa League. And using the money to build the stadium up a bit, I think. Theyd fill it 4x over for Real.
Tottenham in the Bernebau..
Arsenal watching Emerdale!
All booked for Barca in December. Going Mon-Wed, 2 nights in hotel and flights for £270. Just got to get a ticket now.
Arsenal watching BBC 2
Give it a day before you start to goad
Kind of annoying as i wont be home until 7 so will miss Spurs game and only catch 2nd half, also think if any fans or going they obviously haven't factor'd in, all down to stupid tv rights.
I like the new times means I get 2 matches rather than 1
If Spurs make it to half-time without conceding I'll be amazed. Never seen a side under Poch give the ball away so easily.