I studied this quite a bit at college. I knew the treatment of Native Americans was bad but the more I learned, the more appalled I became. The religious self-justifications for the destruction of the indigenous population, the "Manifest Destiny" that North America was given to the white man by God to spread across and exploit, truly disgusted me.
Good job educating people on this and doing your bit to help. It's shameful that Native Americans are still being handed the shit end of the stick today.
Still one of the best books I have ever read and led me on to read many many more on the Native American Indian. I have always wanted to go to the Blackhills and one day I will. Peter Gage did you ever go to the Native American Indian exhibition on the south bank many years ago, I still have the programme.
No, wasnt away of the South Bank exhibition you spoke about.
I spent 3 days in the Black Hills. Absolute stunning landscape, steeped in history ( Mt Rushmore, Crazy Horse Memorial, the towns built on the gold rush, such as Deadwood (death of Wild Bill Hickcock in Saloon 10 - the Badlands and Pine Ridge Rez not to far away. Avisit to Devils Tower on the S Dakota/ Wyoming border is worth a visit.
This campaign saw the wiping out of some 80 troopers under a brash officer named Fetterman, who bragged to his CO that with 80 men he would "ride through the whole Sioux nation." He couldn't. When the army withdrew the Sioux burned Fort Phil Kearney. As you say, it was a signal defeat for the US Army.
Loving this thread, it's what makes this site so great. You log on to look for the latest in the Take Over thread and end up getting educated about Native Americans, superb stuff!
This campaign saw the wiping out of some 80 troopers under a brash officer named Fetterman, who bragged to his CO that with 80 men he would "ride through the whole Sioux nation." He couldn't. When the army withdrew the Sioux burned Fort Phil Kearney. As you say, it was a signal defeat for the US Army.
I visited Fort Phil Kearney plus the site of the Fetterman Massacre and the site of the Wagon Box fight.
Interesting all the senior figures in the arny at that time (just post-civil war) distanced themselves from the blame, which fell upon the commanding officer at Ft Kearney, Colonel Carrington. He was only absolved of blame after his death due to the long campaign carried out by his daughter.
Loving this thread, it's what makes this site so great. You log on to look for the latest in the Take Over thread and end up getting educated about Native Americans, superb stuff!
Agree. Just goes to show what a diverse group we are with other interests outside the great CAFC. (My particular passion is the ACW). We should start our own sub-group (tribe)!
I live next to (in the vast Canadian scheme of things it’s maybe a 30 minute drive) to a large Native reservation, belonging to the Stoney Nakoda First Nation. Canada has a very unsavoury past with the First Nations - lots of horrible stuff has gone on. Today the reservations are often blighted with extreme poverty & the corresponding violence and substance abuse. A very complex and difficult subject - like @PeterGage a lot of people are making an effort to improve things - maybe there is some hope.
Canada's secret shame. I knew nothing of the whole residential school system, 60s scoop etc. before I came to Alberta. It is a truly horrible happening, no less inhumane that apartheid but, for whatever reason, not well known about outside Canada. As I know I've mentioned before, my wife is a child protection social worker, and the majority of cases she works on will involve indigenous people. As you say, it is a very complex subject and there are people working hard to try and repair the damage, and just this week there was an official apology from the Alberta Provincial Government, but the wounds run very deep. One study my wife has told me about estimates it will take 7 generations before the trauma has truly left a family.
Congratulations on your work. The native Americans were the true conservationists. I have a collection of books on the subject and was particularly awestruck by "The Book of the Hopi". These people were regarded as backward by the Europeans, but in fact they possessed true wisdom which America could do with today.
Welsh cult musician Gruff Rhys (Super Furry Animals) documents his latest musical odyssey, retracing the fantastical American journey of his 18th Century relative, the explorer John Evans.
In 1792, John Evans, a twenty-two-year-old farmhand from Snowdonia, Wales, travelled to America to discover whether there was, as widely believed, a Welsh-speaking Native American tribe - The Madogwys - still walking the Great Plains.
During the course of an extraordinary adventure, Evans wrestled the largest river reptiles ever seen in the Mississippi, hunted Bison with the Omaha tribe, defected to the Spanish in St Louis, discovered imaginary volcanoes in Missouri, annexed North Dakota from the British, and created the map that guided Lewis and Clark on their legendary expedition.
In the summer of 2012, over two hundred years later, Gruff retraced his (extremely) Great uncles route through the heart of the continent by means of an “Investigative Concert Tour ™" - a series of solo gigs that saw him accompanied by little more than acoustic guitar, PowerPoint presentation and a three-foot high felt avatar of John Evans.
Starting at Yale University’s Beinecke Library where Evans’ famous map is said to reside, Rhys fully immerses himself in concerts, recording sessions, and conversations with journalists, academics, psychiatrists, and locals on Evans’ route.
From Baltimore to St. Louis, up to the Mandan Reservation of North Dakota and down the Mississippi basin to the Old Governor’s house in New Orleans. Rhys investigates Evans’s significance in American history, the true circumstances of his death, and the lost location of his final resting place.
American Interior is an exploration of how wild fantasies interact with hard history and how myth-making can inspire humans to partake in crazy, vain pursuits of glory, including exploration, war and the creative arts.
I live next to (in the vast Canadian scheme of things it’s maybe a 30 minute drive) to a large Native reservation, belonging to the Stoney Nakoda First Nation. Canada has a very unsavoury past with the First Nations - lots of horrible stuff has gone on. Today the reservations are often blighted with extreme poverty & the corresponding violence and substance abuse. A very complex and difficult subject - like @PeterGage a lot of people are making an effort to improve things - maybe there is some hope.
Canada's secret shame. I knew nothing of the whole residential school system, 60s scoop etc. before I came to Alberta. It is a truly horrible happening, no less inhumane that apartheid but, for whatever reason, not well known about outside Canada. As I know I've mentioned before, my wife is a child protection social worker, and the majority of cases she works on will involve indigenous people. As you say, it is a very complex subject and there are people working hard to try and repair the damage, and just this week there was an official apology from the Alberta Provincial Government, but the wounds run very deep. One study my wife has told me about estimates it will take 7 generations before the trauma has truly left a family.
I live next to (in the vast Canadian scheme of things it’s maybe a 30 minute drive) to a large Native reservation, belonging to the Stoney Nakoda First Nation. Canada has a very unsavoury past with the First Nations - lots of horrible stuff has gone on. Today the reservations are often blighted with extreme poverty & the corresponding violence and substance abuse. A very complex and difficult subject - like @PeterGage a lot of people are making an effort to improve things - maybe there is some hope.
Canada's secret shame. I knew nothing of the whole residential school system, 60s scoop etc. before I came to Alberta. It is a truly horrible happening, no less inhumane that apartheid but, for whatever reason, not well known about outside Canada. As I know I've mentioned before, my wife is a child protection social worker, and the majority of cases she works on will involve indigenous people. As you say, it is a very complex subject and there are people working hard to try and repair the damage, and just this week there was an official apology from the Alberta Provincial Government, but the wounds run very deep. One study my wife has told me about estimates it will take 7 generations before the trauma has truly left a family.
My good friend has a Not For Profit project taking Cross Country Skiing to reservations all across Western Canada - many of them truly remote & isolated. Her goal is to give the kids an activity that engages them physically & mentally. The stories I hear are inspirational...
Directed by Robert Altman with a stella cast, but not exactly Hollywood.
I believe the play is now out of print, it opened in 1970 I believe with Stacey Keach in the lead role.
Every so often, like with Little Big Man, or Dances With Wolves they make a film in America about the inexcusable treatment we Europeans dished out to Aboriginal Americans, but I think Peter nails it by effectively saying that action is a whole lot better than sentiment.
@PeterGage I like to think my spirit guide is Chief Shot-in-the-Eye of the Oglala, if you private message me your details I'd be more than happy to send a small donation to help the cause.
I am interested in a diverse number of things, but my (admittedly passing, and shallow) interest in Aboriginal Americans was sparked by many many visits to the Horniman Museum in Forest Hill, which was near to where I lived. I expect the sand painting covered by a perspex dome is still there. The museum is great for anthropological stuff, less so for all the dead animals. Before I was allowed to go to football alone, Saturdays would often be Saturday Morning Pictures at the ABC Forest Hill, a bag of chips, then the early afternoon was the Horniman Museum children's club, then home for the end of the wrestling (when we eventually got a TV) and the football results. I guess this would have been the early Sixties.
@PeterGage This is brilliant mate. I don't have any suitable fora for one of your presentations but, like others, would gladly make a financial contribution. Have you got a Just Giving set up or something like that?
The treatment of the Native Americans have been shocking and I salute you Peter on your words and actions.
The size of North America is vast and the greed and a complete lack of respect and understanding of the indigenous people by the white European settlers shames them to this day.
@PeterGage This is brilliant mate. I don't have any suitable fora for one of your presentations but, like others, would gladly make a financial contribution. Have you got a Just Giving set up or something like that?
Hi Alan. Hope you are keeping well. I dont have a specific system such as "Just Giving" simply because (a) I have only recently started my "quest" and (b) I didnt expect any other revenue source than from voluntary donations to my presentations. I will need to consider setting up a system for ppl such as you for future unexpected offers of financial assistance.
Two associated points of interest: first, the Trail of Tears is more associated with the Cherokee rather than the Chocktaw. So this is news to me. Both tribes were those of the five tribes (one of tbe others were the Chichasaw) who were classed by the white government as the " five civilised tribes", due to the fact that those tribes were the first to compromise their values and culture in favour of the "civilised" religion of white society.
Interestingly, the Cherokee were the first tribe to forge a written language in about (from memory) 1860s. The architect of the language being an Indian named Sequoia.
Second point: as in the article, the Irish suffered badly from the potato famine and many made their way to America. So many that they and tbe Germans were the biggest two net exporters of immigrants to America in the 19th century (1830 onwards),
cant think what book it was in but reading about the Comanche if you saw them coming over the hill (if) it was best to feck off quick regardless of being native American,White or Mexican.
Comments
Good job educating people on this and doing your bit to help. It's shameful that Native Americans are still being handed the shit end of the stick today.
I spent 3 days in the Black Hills. Absolute stunning landscape, steeped in history ( Mt Rushmore, Crazy Horse Memorial, the towns built on the gold rush, such as Deadwood (death of Wild Bill Hickcock in Saloon 10 - the Badlands and Pine Ridge Rez not to far away. Avisit to Devils Tower on the S Dakota/ Wyoming border is worth a visit.
Interesting all the senior figures in the arny at that time (just post-civil war) distanced themselves from the blame, which fell upon the commanding officer at Ft Kearney, Colonel Carrington. He was only absolved of blame after his death due to the long campaign carried out by his daughter.
https://www.rumblethemovie.com/home
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system
http://american-interior.com/
Welsh cult musician Gruff Rhys (Super Furry Animals) documents his latest musical odyssey, retracing the fantastical American journey of his 18th Century relative, the explorer John Evans.
In 1792, John Evans, a twenty-two-year-old farmhand from Snowdonia, Wales, travelled to America to discover whether there was, as widely believed, a Welsh-speaking Native American tribe - The Madogwys - still walking the Great Plains.
During the course of an extraordinary adventure, Evans wrestled the largest river reptiles ever seen in the Mississippi, hunted Bison with the Omaha tribe, defected to the Spanish in St Louis, discovered imaginary volcanoes in Missouri, annexed North Dakota from the British, and created the map that guided Lewis and Clark on their legendary expedition.
In the summer of 2012, over two hundred years later, Gruff retraced his (extremely) Great uncles route through the heart of the continent by means of an “Investigative Concert Tour ™" - a series of solo gigs that saw him accompanied by little more than acoustic guitar, PowerPoint presentation and a three-foot high felt avatar of John Evans.
Starting at Yale University’s Beinecke Library where Evans’ famous map is said to reside, Rhys fully immerses himself in concerts, recording sessions, and conversations with journalists, academics, psychiatrists, and locals on Evans’ route.
From Baltimore to St. Louis, up to the Mandan Reservation of North Dakota and down the Mississippi basin to the Old Governor’s house in New Orleans. Rhys investigates Evans’s significance in American history, the true circumstances of his death, and the lost location of his final resting place.
American Interior is an exploration of how wild fantasies interact with hard history and how myth-making can inspire humans to partake in crazy, vain pursuits of glory, including exploration, war and the creative arts.
Worth watching the video on this page
http://www.spiritnorthxc.ca/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kopit
Which was transmogrified somewhat into a film
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Bill_and_the_Indians,_or_Sitting_Bull's_History_Lesson
Directed by Robert Altman with a stella cast, but not exactly Hollywood.
I believe the play is now out of print, it opened in 1970 I believe with Stacey Keach in the lead role.
Every so often, like with Little Big Man, or Dances With Wolves they make a film in America about the inexcusable treatment we Europeans dished out to Aboriginal Americans, but I think Peter nails it by effectively saying that action is a whole lot better than sentiment.
More power to you Peter.
Before I was allowed to go to football alone, Saturdays would often be Saturday Morning Pictures at the ABC Forest Hill, a bag of chips, then the early afternoon was the Horniman Museum children's club, then home for the end of the wrestling (when we eventually got a TV) and the football results.
I guess this would have been the early Sixties.
#metoo
The size of North America is vast and the greed and a complete lack of respect and understanding of the indigenous people by the white European settlers shames them to this day.
Good luck with your worthy cause.
https://xyuandbeyond.com/irish-famine-and-the-choctaw-on-the-trail-of-tears/
Once again, Charlton Life at it's best.
Interestingly, the Cherokee were the first tribe to forge a written language in about (from memory) 1860s. The architect of the language being an Indian named Sequoia.
Second point: as in the article, the Irish suffered badly from the potato famine and many made their way to America. So many that they and tbe Germans were the biggest two net exporters of immigrants to America in the 19th century (1830 onwards),
cant think what book it was in but reading about the Comanche if you saw them coming over the hill (if) it was best to feck off quick regardless of being native American,White or Mexican.
Why would you keep it if you knew it was a racial slur? Actually, why would you choose it in the first place?