I understand the racist allegation, but many accused the character Alf Garnett and the program “till death us do part” as racist, sexist and everything ‘ist”. The writer explained that the views of the character were so clearly ridiculous it made him and his views stupid therefore attacked racism not supported it by highlighting this. He also added something along the lines that “if you don’t like the program, turn it off”.
Sometimes you have to take a step back and review in your mind what you have seen and heard when watching a program or a play, and indeed what you read in a book. So often an author etc is looking for a response and asking a question.
Taking one character out of a context is quite ridiculous.
I am not an avid watcher of the program, but I have watched enough to know that Abu is a lovely character who challenges perceptions whilst adopting most of them. Clever in my opinion, very well written, and engages with people at all levels.
The show has probably done more to bring barriers down and offended no one other than those looking to be offended.
So if your kids come home from school every day being ground down by some arseholes calling them Apu they should just grow some, and stop being offended?
Again, I really recommend "The Problem with Apu." It's very intelligent, insightful, and nuanced. It takes up literally every argument that has been made here, and many that have not been made--including the fact that Apu is at times the moral conscious of the show, as well as the one who represents best The American Dream(TM). Hari Kondabolu, one of my favorite comedians, uses Apu as a sort of stepping stone to talk about cultural appropriation, racism, and above all, representation. He is a very bright guy, and I think a lot of you will walk away from it at least saying "okay I see his point, there is a problem here." His documentary has been incredibly misrepresented on t'internet by those who haven't seen it.
Also, this whole thing would have blown over if not for an episode of The Simpsons a couple weeks ago where they try to address it in the dumbest and most condescending way. It was actually that response that really stoked this whole thing. Not a lot of people saw "The Problem with Apu," it really only kicked off after their response in the show. It was basically "well yeah, it's a problem, but what can you do.......?" And it's like, "you're the writers of the show, you can do literally anything!"
Also, here's a 4 minute clip of Hari Kondabolu talking about this.
"As a joke writer I'm offended who constantly worries about cliche, I'm offended. And as a Simpsons fan I'm definitely offended because it's bad writing." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4CEPmdEdI
It might be a matter of semantics and i'm sorry you disagree but I feel that a problem like racism or sexism will never be solved whilst we have a "my opinion is more important than yours" attitude. We all live in this society, its a societal problem. It will be solved when people stop compartmentalising everyone into - well you can have a view that nobody is allowed to question or critique, but you can't because you haven't lived it.
So many strawmen, such little time.
1) No one said you couldn't have an opinion, that's a fallacy. 2) This is faux outrage, just as it's faux questioning of "well I just want to understand" when it's really "well I don't agree with you and I'm going to find new ways to say that until I grind you down, then BLAME YOU FOR RACISM BEING PERSISTANT IN OUR SOCIETY." 3) I'm not saying my opinion matters more than yours, I'm saying yours doesn't matter as much as someone with direct experience of the issue. At no point have I even given my own opinion, I have just directed you to a primary source whose voice matters in this.
Think of it this way, since you can't grasp what privilege is. You're a journalist. A fire starts and you're reporting on it. Now, do you want to go talk to a fireman, or someone who has heard about this fire, and heard about a lot of other fires, but never actually seen one?
There is nothing more privileged and arrogant to think "I've never actually fought a fire, but I know a lot about fires."
There's been a misunderstanding here - I never said my opinion mattered more or even nearly the same as a victim of racism- I said it was just as VALID as a victim of racism. Because it is. You quoted one line from what I said in your first post to me may I suggest you re-read it for what I actually said and not what you have got in your head I said. I then followed it up when you attacked that view by saying that debate about who's opinion matters more will not solve anything, which again here you have misinterpreted as me accusing you of saying your opinion matters more (not what I said) - or worse as some kind of passive aggressive attack which I assure you it wasn't. Speaking of which...
On your point 2) - erm what are you talking about? You have misinterpreted my post I don't really understand what you think I was saying there? I certainly wasn't accusing anyone of anything and I assure you there was nothing "faux" about anything I have posted here today - I apologise if that's the impression I gave I'm just trying to have an honest debate.
You have jumped on me here because of that original one line that you quoted and then made a load of assumptions about me - Just because I am not a victim of racism doesn't mean I haven't seen it first hand many times, been around it first hand, had relationships with people who have suffered it - please don't resort to silly name calling and this "privilege" nonsense - i'm not arrogant and i've treated you with nothing but respect in this conversation, please can you lend me the same courtesy?
Also just so you can stop having to think up more analogies, I assure you I get what you are saying - listen to the experts - yep I agree but maybe don't disregard everyone else's point of view at the same time - a good journalist covers ALL the bases because sometimes an outsider might have a valid (there's that word again) point - you know - like the eye witnesses?
I have nothing further to add on the rest of it but if you want to debate whether Apu is a racist character or not then read my earlier posts and debate it - I made a number of points that I genuinely wanted answers to regarding some double standards in what is considered racism in the Simpsons and what seemingly isn't, and wondering why Apu is such a hot button issue when there are other examples that are ignored in the same show.
Otherwise if not thanks for the robust debate it was interesting and given me a few things to think on.
It might be a matter of semantics and i'm sorry you disagree but I feel that a problem like racism or sexism will never be solved whilst we have a "my opinion is more important than yours" attitude. We all live in this society, its a societal problem. It will be solved when people stop compartmentalising everyone into - well you can have a view that nobody is allowed to question or critique, but you can't because you haven't lived it.
So many strawmen, such little time.
1) No one said you couldn't have an opinion, that's a fallacy. 2) This is faux outrage, just as it's faux questioning of "well I just want to understand" when it's really "well I don't agree with you and I'm going to find new ways to say that until I grind you down, then BLAME YOU FOR RACISM BEING PERSISTANT IN OUR SOCIETY." 3) I'm not saying my opinion matters more than yours, I'm saying yours doesn't matter as much as someone with direct experience of the issue. At no point have I even given my own opinion, I have just directed you to a primary source whose voice matters in this.
Think of it this way, since you can't grasp what privilege is. You're a journalist. A fire starts and you're reporting on it. Now, do you want to go talk to a fireman, or someone who has heard about this fire, and heard about a lot of other fires, but never actually seen one?
There is nothing more privileged and arrogant to think "I've never actually fought a fire, but I know a lot about fires."
There's been a misunderstanding here - I never said my opinion mattered more or even nearly the same as a victim of racism- I said it was just as VALID as a victim of racism. Because it is. You quoted one line from what I said in your first post to me may I suggest you re-read it for what I actually said and not what you have got in your head I said. I then followed it up when you attacked that view by saying that debate about who's opinion matters more will not solve anything, which again here you have misinterpreted as me accusing you of saying your opinion matters more (not what I said) - or worse as some kind of passive aggressive attack which I assure you it wasn't. Speaking of which...
On your point 2) - erm what are you talking about? You have misinterpreted my post I don't really understand what you think I was saying there? I certainly wasn't accusing anyone of anything and I assure you there was nothing "faux" about anything I have posted here today - I apologise if that's the impression I gave I'm just trying to have an honest debate.
You have jumped on me here because of that original one line that you quoted and then made a load of assumptions about me - Just because I am not a victim of racism doesn't mean I haven't seen it first hand many times, been around it first hand, had relationships with people who have suffered it - please don't resort to silly name calling and this "privilege" nonsense - i'm not arrogant and i've treated you with nothing but respect in this conversation, please can you lend me the same courtesy?
Also just so you can stop having to think up more analogies, I assure you I get what you are saying - listen to the experts - yep I agree but maybe don't disregard everyone else's point of view at the same time - a good journalist covers ALL the bases because sometimes an outsider might have a valid (there's that word again) point - you know - like the eye witnesses?
I have nothing further to add on the rest of it but if you want to debate whether Apu is a racist character or not then read my earlier posts and debate it - I made a number of points that I genuinely wanted answers to regarding some double standards in what is considered racism in the Simpsons and what seemingly isn't, and wondering why Apu is such a hot button issue when there are other examples that are ignored in the same show.
Otherwise if not thanks for the robust debate it was interesting and given me a few things to think on.
You're a 33 year old white male who has, by his own admission, never experienced racism or sexism.
Calling you "privileged" isn't a pejorative. It's a fact.
It offends me that you think you can judge my entire life based on 3 facts you know about me. Very on topic with the stereotyping though huh? Again a little courtesy goes a long way but if you aren't willing to extend that to me in return then this conversation is over. Have a good one.
It might be a matter of semantics and i'm sorry you disagree but I feel that a problem like racism or sexism will never be solved whilst we have a "my opinion is more important than yours" attitude. We all live in this society, its a societal problem. It will be solved when people stop compartmentalising everyone into - well you can have a view that nobody is allowed to question or critique, but you can't because you haven't lived it.
So many strawmen, such little time.
1) No one said you couldn't have an opinion, that's a fallacy. 2) This is faux outrage, just as it's faux questioning of "well I just want to understand" when it's really "well I don't agree with you and I'm going to find new ways to say that until I grind you down, then BLAME YOU FOR RACISM BEING PERSISTANT IN OUR SOCIETY." 3) I'm not saying my opinion matters more than yours, I'm saying yours doesn't matter as much as someone with direct experience of the issue. At no point have I even given my own opinion, I have just directed you to a primary source whose voice matters in this.
Think of it this way, since you can't grasp what privilege is. You're a journalist. A fire starts and you're reporting on it. Now, do you want to go talk to a fireman, or someone who has heard about this fire, and heard about a lot of other fires, but never actually seen one?
There is nothing more privileged and arrogant to think "I've never actually fought a fire, but I know a lot about fires."
There's been a misunderstanding here - I never said my opinion mattered more or even nearly the same as a victim of racism- I said it was just as VALID as a victim of racism. Because it is. You quoted one line from what I said in your first post to me may I suggest you re-read it for what I actually said and not what you have got in your head I said. I then followed it up when you attacked that view by saying that debate about who's opinion matters more will not solve anything, which again here you have misinterpreted as me accusing you of saying your opinion matters more (not what I said) - or worse as some kind of passive aggressive attack which I assure you it wasn't. Speaking of which...
On your point 2) - erm what are you talking about? You have misinterpreted my post I don't really understand what you think I was saying there? I certainly wasn't accusing anyone of anything and I assure you there was nothing "faux" about anything I have posted here today - I apologise if that's the impression I gave I'm just trying to have an honest debate.
You have jumped on me here because of that original one line that you quoted and then made a load of assumptions about me - Just because I am not a victim of racism doesn't mean I haven't seen it first hand many times, been around it first hand, had relationships with people who have suffered it - please don't resort to silly name calling and this "privilege" nonsense - i'm not arrogant and i've treated you with nothing but respect in this conversation, please can you lend me the same courtesy?
Also just so you can stop having to think up more analogies, I assure you I get what you are saying - listen to the experts - yep I agree but maybe don't disregard everyone else's point of view at the same time - a good journalist covers ALL the bases because sometimes an outsider might have a valid (there's that word again) point - you know - like the eye witnesses?
I have nothing further to add on the rest of it but if you want to debate whether Apu is a racist character or not then read my earlier posts and debate it - I made a number of points that I genuinely wanted answers to regarding some double standards in what is considered racism in the Simpsons and what seemingly isn't, and wondering why Apu is such a hot button issue when there are other examples that are ignored in the same show.
Otherwise if not thanks for the robust debate it was interesting and given me a few things to think on.
You're a 33 year old white male who has, by his own admission, never experienced racism or sexism.
Calling you "privileged" isn't a pejorative. It's a fact.
Absolutely brilliant. You’ve used someone’s age, gender and race to stereotype in a thread about stereotyping.
Might as well just kill off the entire show. It hasn't been relevant for 10? 15? years.
Every character on the show is a stereotype it's a cartoon - remember the "book of British smiles" or when Homer got kidnapped in Brazil? How about the Texan oil guy with the guns? Bumblebee man with the exaggerated Mexican accent? Cletus the stereotypical hick/yokel? Ned Flanders the holier than thou bible basher? Herman the military nut? They are all one note characters with a catch-phrase based on their stereotypes.
And worst of all you have, the obese, alcoholic, violent child abusing thug who happens to be a white guy and main character on the show named Homer.
There have been many individual main stories for this Indian stereotype - pretty progressive for a mainstream US show in the 90's and 2000's Then there are the actual storylines and character progression he has had-
-The problem of immigration and the issues he had to face with a media bias against him and the perceptions of the locals when a bill was introduced to remove him from the country - sharing his thoughts and feelings on religion in a very eloquent way and educating people on Hinduism with Lisa when she was looking for answers - the loss of his job and exploring how he would cope without a massive part of his life and the feeling of purpose he had lost - Having to deal with an arranged marriage and overbearing mother - having issues with conceiving a child and then conversely having to handle a huge number of children at once and the media circus that followed it - and what happened when the circus and support went away - Having an affair and temporarily losing everything and having to rekindle the relationship with his wife and children
Among others that escape my mind at the moment
But yeah focus on the silly accent. Pardon my French but bollocks to that.
Homer is yellow.
The bloke who voiced Apu was the dodgy FUN chap in Ray Donovan.
It might be a matter of semantics and i'm sorry you disagree but I feel that a problem like racism or sexism will never be solved whilst we have a "my opinion is more important than yours" attitude. We all live in this society, its a societal problem. It will be solved when people stop compartmentalising everyone into - well you can have a view that nobody is allowed to question or critique, but you can't because you haven't lived it.
So many strawmen, such little time.
1) No one said you couldn't have an opinion, that's a fallacy. 2) This is faux outrage, just as it's faux questioning of "well I just want to understand" when it's really "well I don't agree with you and I'm going to find new ways to say that until I grind you down, then BLAME YOU FOR RACISM BEING PERSISTANT IN OUR SOCIETY." 3) I'm not saying my opinion matters more than yours, I'm saying yours doesn't matter as much as someone with direct experience of the issue. At no point have I even given my own opinion, I have just directed you to a primary source whose voice matters in this.
Think of it this way, since you can't grasp what privilege is. You're a journalist. A fire starts and you're reporting on it. Now, do you want to go talk to a fireman, or someone who has heard about this fire, and heard about a lot of other fires, but never actually seen one?
There is nothing more privileged and arrogant to think "I've never actually fought a fire, but I know a lot about fires."
There's been a misunderstanding here - I never said my opinion mattered more or even nearly the same as a victim of racism- I said it was just as VALID as a victim of racism. Because it is. You quoted one line from what I said in your first post to me may I suggest you re-read it for what I actually said and not what you have got in your head I said. I then followed it up when you attacked that view by saying that debate about who's opinion matters more will not solve anything, which again here you have misinterpreted as me accusing you of saying your opinion matters more (not what I said) - or worse as some kind of passive aggressive attack which I assure you it wasn't. Speaking of which...
On your point 2) - erm what are you talking about? You have misinterpreted my post I don't really understand what you think I was saying there? I certainly wasn't accusing anyone of anything and I assure you there was nothing "faux" about anything I have posted here today - I apologise if that's the impression I gave I'm just trying to have an honest debate.
You have jumped on me here because of that original one line that you quoted and then made a load of assumptions about me - Just because I am not a victim of racism doesn't mean I haven't seen it first hand many times, been around it first hand, had relationships with people who have suffered it - please don't resort to silly name calling and this "privilege" nonsense - i'm not arrogant and i've treated you with nothing but respect in this conversation, please can you lend me the same courtesy?
Also just so you can stop having to think up more analogies, I assure you I get what you are saying - listen to the experts - yep I agree but maybe don't disregard everyone else's point of view at the same time - a good journalist covers ALL the bases because sometimes an outsider might have a valid (there's that word again) point - you know - like the eye witnesses?
I have nothing further to add on the rest of it but if you want to debate whether Apu is a racist character or not then read my earlier posts and debate it - I made a number of points that I genuinely wanted answers to regarding some double standards in what is considered racism in the Simpsons and what seemingly isn't, and wondering why Apu is such a hot button issue when there are other examples that are ignored in the same show.
Otherwise if not thanks for the robust debate it was interesting and given me a few things to think on.
You're a 33 year old white male who has, by his own admission, never experienced racism or sexism.
Calling you "privileged" isn't a pejorative. It's a fact.
Absolutely brilliant. You’ve used someone’s age, gender and race to stereotype in a thread about stereotyping.
That's the cleanest hammer to nail sound I've heard in a while.
It's nothing more than a race to see who can hit the bottom of the progressive barrel in the fastest time.
I mean it is possible to have a perfectly valid opinion about something without direct experience of it, certain other experiences might be relatable with the right training. Having some empathy is a good start.
I understand the racist allegation, but many accused the character Alf Garnett and the program “till death us do part” as racist, sexist and everything ‘ist”. The writer explained that the views of the character were so clearly ridiculous it made him and his views stupid therefore attacked racism not supported it by highlighting this. He also added something along the lines that “if you don’t like the program, turn it off”.
Sometimes you have to take a step back and review in your mind what you have seen and heard when watching a program or a play, and indeed what you read in a book. So often an author etc is looking for a response and asking a question.
Taking one character out of a context is quite ridiculous.
I am not an avid watcher of the program, but I have watched enough to know that Abu is a lovely character who challenges perceptions whilst adopting most of them. Clever in my opinion, very well written, and engages with people at all levels.
The show has probably done more to bring barriers down and offended no one other than those looking to be offended.
So if your kids come home from school every day being ground down by some arseholes calling them Apu they should just grow some, and stop being offended?
I would be more worried if they came home from school and had reached the conclusions you have given what I actually said.
If you are trying to solve a problem that affects a particular minority and then don't involve them in the solution I'd hazard a guess it probably won't work well.
The worst thing you can say to someone is 'I understand' about a problem that you don't really understand. It's guarantees to piss someone off.
That's not what I said though is it? I said my opinion is just a valid because everyone in society has a role to play in combatting racism. How can you have dialogue if you don't challenge viewpoints?
I'm not dismissing anyone else's opinion i'm debating it. Why am I not allowed to have one? Not one person has counter-argued any of my points about the character, the storylines or the other examples of different races/sexes voicing characters that I outlined in my first two or three posts. All i'm having to defend is my right to have an opinion, rather than what my actual opinion is. Why is that?
Nobody said you didn't have the right to have an opinion as far as I'm aware. The point being made was that some opinions perhaps carry more weight than others which I didn't think was that contentious? In a debate about racism a person directly affected by it would perhaps have a more informed view of what It's like to suffer racism?
Everyone is obviously part of the debate but surely personal experience of an issue carries weight?
If you are trying to solve a problem that affects a particular minority and then don't involve them in the solution I'd hazard a guess it probably won't work well.
The worst thing you can say to someone is 'I understand' about a problem that you don't really understand. It's guarantees to piss someone off.
That's not what I said though is it? I said my opinion is just a valid because everyone in society has a role to play in combatting racism. How can you have dialogue if you don't challenge viewpoints?
I'm not dismissing anyone else's opinion i'm debating it. Why am I not allowed to have one? Not one person has counter-argued any of my points about the character, the storylines or the other examples of different races/sexes voicing characters that I outlined in my first two or three posts. All i'm having to defend is my right to have an opinion, rather than what my actual opinion is. Why is that?
Nobody said you didn't have the right to have an opinion as far as I'm aware. The point being made was that some opinions perhaps carry more weight than others which I didn't think was that contentious? In a debate about racism a person directly affected by it would perhaps have a more informed view of what It's like to suffer racism?
Everyone is obviously part of the debate but surely personal experience of an issue carries weight?
Whack the above on the Windrush thread as I think Leuth and a few others may take issue with it as they believe their privileged, white views carry more weight than those directly affected. Especially if those directly affected disagree with the agenda being pushed.
If you are trying to solve a problem that affects a particular minority and then don't involve them in the solution I'd hazard a guess it probably won't work well.
The worst thing you can say to someone is 'I understand' about a problem that you don't really understand. It's guarantees to piss someone off.
That's not what I said though is it? I said my opinion is just a valid because everyone in society has a role to play in combatting racism. How can you have dialogue if you don't challenge viewpoints?
I'm not dismissing anyone else's opinion i'm debating it. Why am I not allowed to have one? Not one person has counter-argued any of my points about the character, the storylines or the other examples of different races/sexes voicing characters that I outlined in my first two or three posts. All i'm having to defend is my right to have an opinion, rather than what my actual opinion is. Why is that?
Nobody said you didn't have the right to have an opinion as far as I'm aware. The point being made was that some opinions perhaps carry more weight than others which I didn't think was that contentious? In a debate about racism a person directly affected by it would perhaps have a more informed view of what It's like to suffer racism?
Everyone is obviously part of the debate but surely personal experience of an issue carries weight?
Whack the above on the Windrush thread as I think Leuth and a few others may take issue with it as they believe their privileged, white views carry more weight than those directly affected. Especially if those directly affected disagree with the agenda being pushed.
Think I will steer clear of that for now. My head is hurting..
Also, here's a 4 minute clip of Hari Kondabolu talking about this.
"As a joke writer I'm offended who constantly worries about cliche, I'm offended. And as a Simpsons fan I'm definitely offended because it's bad writing." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J4CEPmdEdI
If you are trying to solve a problem that affects a particular minority and then don't involve them in the solution I'd hazard a guess it probably won't work well.
The worst thing you can say to someone is 'I understand' about a problem that you don't really understand. It's guarantees to piss someone off.
That's not what I said though is it? I said my opinion is just a valid because everyone in society has a role to play in combatting racism. How can you have dialogue if you don't challenge viewpoints?
I'm not dismissing anyone else's opinion i'm debating it. Why am I not allowed to have one? Not one person has counter-argued any of my points about the character, the storylines or the other examples of different races/sexes voicing characters that I outlined in my first two or three posts. All i'm having to defend is my right to have an opinion, rather than what my actual opinion is. Why is that?
Nobody said you didn't have the right to have an opinion as far as I'm aware. The point being made was that some opinions perhaps carry more weight than others which I didn't think was that contentious? In a debate about racism a person directly affected by it would perhaps have a more informed view of what It's like to suffer racism?
Everyone is obviously part of the debate but surely personal experience of an issue carries weight?
Whack the above on the Windrush thread as I think Leuth and a few others may take issue with it as they believe their privileged, white views carry more weight than those directly affected. Especially if those directly affected disagree with the agenda being pushed.
Think I will steer clear of that for now. My head is hurting..
Understood. It wouldn't be popular to rightly call out a progressive as being, well, regressive.
You forget sometimes how much things change - comic material and what's offensive changes decade by decade. If you sat through an episode of the stand-up show 'The Comedians from the 1970s it would perfectly illustrate the attitudes of the time.
Interesting debate, mostly sensibly done. My personal opinion, as opinions inevitably are, and not having watched the documentary (I may feel different when I have) is that Apu is a loveable, positive character. Part of the offence appears to be that he is voiced by a white man, okay, Hank Azaria has said he's happy for that to change.
Then again another part of the offence seems to be that he has an Indian (South Asian) accent, and his catchphrase gets used "against" Asian children. So is another actor of sub-continental origin going to come in and change Apu's accent to that of a cultured, second generation Asian American, and Apu going to have no catchphrases? Because whoever voices him, people (kids in the playground) will impersonate him "at" Asian kids, however he sounds - it's what kids do. I am sure that somewhere in the colonies, a red haired Scottish kid is having the piss ripped out of him and being called "Groundskeeper Willie" even as we speak... This does not make it right, and we need to continue educating young people that if ribbing is genuinely hurting someone, it should stop. If it is (not keen on the word, but it describes what I mean perfectly) "banter", then let it flow.
As others have said the show is all about stereotypes (cheese eating surrender monkeys, anyone...), quality of writing and "show-run-it's-course" notwithstanding, if you lose the stereotypes you lose a big part of what the show is all about.
As I wrote, I may feel differently once I have had a chance to watch the doc...
Comments
http://www.trutv.com/shows/the-problem-with-apu/index.html
Also, this whole thing would have blown over if not for an episode of The Simpsons a couple weeks ago where they try to address it in the dumbest and most condescending way. It was actually that response that really stoked this whole thing. Not a lot of people saw "The Problem with Apu," it really only kicked off after their response in the show. It was basically "well yeah, it's a problem, but what can you do.......?" And it's like, "you're the writers of the show, you can do literally anything!"
"As a joke writer I'm offended who constantly worries about cliche, I'm offended. And as a Simpsons fan I'm definitely offended because it's bad writing."
There's been a misunderstanding here - I never said my opinion mattered more or even nearly the same as a victim of racism- I said it was just as VALID as a victim of racism. Because it is. You quoted one line from what I said in your first post to me may I suggest you re-read it for what I actually said and not what you have got in your head I said.
I then followed it up when you attacked that view by saying that debate about who's opinion matters more will not solve anything, which again here you have misinterpreted as me accusing you of saying your opinion matters more (not what I said) - or worse as some kind of passive aggressive attack which I assure you it wasn't. Speaking of which...
On your point 2) - erm what are you talking about? You have misinterpreted my post I don't really understand what you think I was saying there? I certainly wasn't accusing anyone of anything and I assure you there was nothing "faux" about anything I have posted here today - I apologise if that's the impression I gave I'm just trying to have an honest debate.
You have jumped on me here because of that original one line that you quoted and then made a load of assumptions about me - Just because I am not a victim of racism doesn't mean I haven't seen it first hand many times, been around it first hand, had relationships with people who have suffered it - please don't resort to silly name calling and this "privilege" nonsense - i'm not arrogant and i've treated you with nothing but respect in this conversation, please can you lend me the same courtesy?
Also just so you can stop having to think up more analogies, I assure you I get what you are saying - listen to the experts - yep I agree but maybe don't disregard everyone else's point of view at the same time - a good journalist covers ALL the bases because sometimes an outsider might have a valid (there's that word again) point - you know - like the eye witnesses?
I have nothing further to add on the rest of it but if you want to debate whether Apu is a racist character or not then read my earlier posts and debate it - I made a number of points that I genuinely wanted answers to regarding some double standards in what is considered racism in the Simpsons and what seemingly isn't, and wondering why Apu is such a hot button issue when there are other examples that are ignored in the same show.
Otherwise if not thanks for the robust debate it was interesting and given me a few things to think on.
Calling you "privileged" isn't a pejorative. It's a fact.
The bloke who voiced Apu was the dodgy FUN chap in Ray Donovan.
It's nothing more than a race to see who can hit the bottom of the progressive barrel in the fastest time.
10 years time we'll be left with Miranda and Michael Macintyre.
What a dull, tepid and sterile world we are creating.
Identity politics is here to save the world.
Everyone is obviously part of the debate but surely personal experience of an issue carries weight?
My issue is telling other people how they should feel about something, particularly if they don't fully understand why the offense was caused
Then again another part of the offence seems to be that he has an Indian (South Asian) accent, and his catchphrase gets used "against" Asian children. So is another actor of sub-continental origin going to come in and change Apu's accent to that of a cultured, second generation Asian American, and Apu going to have no catchphrases? Because whoever voices him, people (kids in the playground) will impersonate him "at" Asian kids, however he sounds - it's what kids do. I am sure that somewhere in the colonies, a red haired Scottish kid is having the piss ripped out of him and being called "Groundskeeper Willie" even as we speak... This does not make it right, and we need to continue educating young people that if ribbing is genuinely hurting someone, it should stop. If it is (not keen on the word, but it describes what I mean perfectly) "banter", then let it flow.
As others have said the show is all about stereotypes (cheese eating surrender monkeys, anyone...), quality of writing and "show-run-it's-course" notwithstanding, if you lose the stereotypes you lose a big part of what the show is all about.
As I wrote, I may feel differently once I have had a chance to watch the doc...
Chief Wiggum? Donut eating fat lazy policeman, bit of an insult to those policeman who lost their lives to terrorism last few years.
Homer, fat bald drunk of Irish decent, pretty racey that.
As per usual, your compass is a little off PC brigade, weird weird boring bunch.