The fact that either thinks anyone gives a monkeys what channel this is on demonstrates how far out of touch they are. Just get on with it, it needs to happen even if it's on channel 5.
Why does it need to happen? To me it's just needlessly dramatises the whole thing.
And, behind the subscription paywall, a warning from Stephen Collins that Irish people not get too haughty when watching Brexit "unfold"...
Brexit is no excuse for bashing the British
Irish sneering at UK’s nervous breakdown is offensive and counter-productive
Brexit is the most compelling political drama of our age not only because the consequences will be with us for generations but because nobody knows what the next act in the coming weeks is going to bring us, never mind what the final scene will be.
Most political crises involve the fate of political parties or leading politicians and follow certain generally accepted rules of engagement which have little direct bearing on the lives of ordinary people, but the outcome of this one will affect the lives of more than 60 million people in a direct fashion.
It will also have a serious impact on the lives of people on both parts of this island and that is why it has absorbed so much attention from Irish politicians, officials and the media.
Some letter writers to this paper have bemoaned the sheer volume of the coverage but, given the overwhelming importance of the issue and the unpredictable nature of the outcome, it puts all other issues in the shade.
The official Irish response to Brexit has been tough but professional with senior politicians and diplomats working to protect the national interest by getting cast-iron assurances on the avoidance of a hard border while also being mindful of the need to ensure the best possible trading arrangements between the European Union and the United Kingdom in the long term.
However, some of the commentary around Brexit has provided a pretext for a return to the kind of nasty British bashing that in the past helped to sour relations between the people of the two islands and the two communities in the North. Of course the decision of the British people to leave the EU was a short-sighted one, facilitated by unscrupulous politicians like Boris Johnson, but there is no escaping the fact that, for whatever reason, a majority voted to leave.
That’s democracy.
Spurious grounds It is no harm to remember that twice since the beginning of this century the Irish people have voted down EU treaties on utterly spurious grounds. Given the positive image of the EU in this country, by contrast with the UK, and the clear economic benefits of membership, the No votes to the Nice and Lisbon treaties showed just how open electorates can be to manipulation.
Sneering at the foolishness of the British people and taking pleasure at the political contortions required of Theresa May and her ministers to make the best of a bad lot is not simply unneighbourly but potentially dangerous. Is the mirror image of the attitude of those in the UK who demonised the EU for so long.
We have always been very touchy in this country about the condescending attitude of some British politicians and commentators who struggle to understand our concerns. Now that the British are having what amounts to a political nervous breakdown, some of the sneering on this side of the Irish Sea is offensive as well as counter-productive.
At this stage it is strongly in the interests of the Irish people on both sides of the border that Theresa May can persuade the House of Commons to ratify the deal she has done with the EU. It appears very unlikely that she will be able to accomplish this on December 11th but the deal may well come back for a second vote shortly before or after Christmas.
There is an outside chance that the majority in the Commons who favour a continuing close relationship with the EU may prevail over the Tory ultras and the Labour hard-left and vote for a better alternative than the deal on offer, but a “crash out” hard Brexit is the more likely outcome if May does not prevail.
Ties of blood It is important that good relations between Ireland and the UK are maintained whatever the ultimate Brexit deal. This is not simply as a matter of economic self-interest. The ties of blood, language and culture that exist between the two islands are too important for relations to be soured.
One of the great benefits of the Belfast Agreement was that, whatever about its failure to deliver a stable administration in Northern Ireland, it facilitated the flowering of truly close and friendly relations between the governments in Dublin and London.
This simply reflected the reality of the relations that already existed between the vast majority of Irish and English people. Just look at the two big sporting announcements of the past week. One was that the Irish soccer team will again be managed by Mick McCarthy, a tough Yorkshire man who played his heart out for Ireland on the field and managed the team that got to the World Cup finals in 2002.
The other was the announcement that English rugby league legend Andy Farrell, father of current English rugby union star Owen Farrell, will succeed Joe Schmidt as manager of the Irish rugby team.
McCarthy and Farrell, whose surnames leave no doubt about their ancestry, represent the intertwined relationship of the two islands. Hopefully they will bring honour and glory to this country in the years ahead and, with luck, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg will be relegated to the margins of history.
I have to strongly disagree with this view. The contempt and ridicule that the UK is currently receiving from the rest of the civilised world is fully justified. Similarly, the powerful elites who sowed the seeds of this Brexit disaster and the fools who voted for it deserve never ending contempt and ridicule. After nearly 3 years debate and after every single Brexit premise and promise has foundered on the hard rock face of truth, reality and facts, the country is now in deep self inflicted peril. I am truly truly embarrassed to be a citizen of this country. I think I am experiencing the same feelings as the non Nazi voting Germans must have felt in the 1930s.
One, if not the most, ridiculously OTT and wholey inaccurate analogies made in this whole Brexit mess.
This is a quick note for anyone who might not be following the full intricacies and nuances of the harm the British public are about to visit on themselves. For example, if you're tuning in from another country, interested to know which version of self-inflicted crisis we are about to allow ourselves to suffer. There is one, all-encompassing, critical debate that's coursing through the British public's conscience today. Brace yourself. It's this: should May and Corbyn debate on BBC1 after Strictly or ITV before I'm A Celebrity.
Yes, it really has sunk that low.
I'd like it to be a Political Celebrities Pointless Special. The Lovely Alexander Armstrong "We surveyed 100 people, and gave the 100 seconds to give as many reasons to want Brexit, Boris you said Blue Passports, lets see how many people said Blue Passports"
And, behind the subscription paywall, a warning from Stephen Collins that Irish people not get too haughty when watching Brexit "unfold"...
Brexit is no excuse for bashing the British
Irish sneering at UK’s nervous breakdown is offensive and counter-productive
Brexit is the most compelling political drama of our age not only because the consequences will be with us for generations but because nobody knows what the next act in the coming weeks is going to bring us, never mind what the final scene will be.
Most political crises involve the fate of political parties or leading politicians and follow certain generally accepted rules of engagement which have little direct bearing on the lives of ordinary people, but the outcome of this one will affect the lives of more than 60 million people in a direct fashion.
It will also have a serious impact on the lives of people on both parts of this island and that is why it has absorbed so much attention from Irish politicians, officials and the media.
Some letter writers to this paper have bemoaned the sheer volume of the coverage but, given the overwhelming importance of the issue and the unpredictable nature of the outcome, it puts all other issues in the shade.
The official Irish response to Brexit has been tough but professional with senior politicians and diplomats working to protect the national interest by getting cast-iron assurances on the avoidance of a hard border while also being mindful of the need to ensure the best possible trading arrangements between the European Union and the United Kingdom in the long term.
However, some of the commentary around Brexit has provided a pretext for a return to the kind of nasty British bashing that in the past helped to sour relations between the people of the two islands and the two communities in the North. Of course the decision of the British people to leave the EU was a short-sighted one, facilitated by unscrupulous politicians like Boris Johnson, but there is no escaping the fact that, for whatever reason, a majority voted to leave.
That’s democracy.
Spurious grounds It is no harm to remember that twice since the beginning of this century the Irish people have voted down EU treaties on utterly spurious grounds. Given the positive image of the EU in this country, by contrast with the UK, and the clear economic benefits of membership, the No votes to the Nice and Lisbon treaties showed just how open electorates can be to manipulation.
Sneering at the foolishness of the British people and taking pleasure at the political contortions required of Theresa May and her ministers to make the best of a bad lot is not simply unneighbourly but potentially dangerous. Is the mirror image of the attitude of those in the UK who demonised the EU for so long.
We have always been very touchy in this country about the condescending attitude of some British politicians and commentators who struggle to understand our concerns. Now that the British are having what amounts to a political nervous breakdown, some of the sneering on this side of the Irish Sea is offensive as well as counter-productive.
At this stage it is strongly in the interests of the Irish people on both sides of the border that Theresa May can persuade the House of Commons to ratify the deal she has done with the EU. It appears very unlikely that she will be able to accomplish this on December 11th but the deal may well come back for a second vote shortly before or after Christmas.
There is an outside chance that the majority in the Commons who favour a continuing close relationship with the EU may prevail over the Tory ultras and the Labour hard-left and vote for a better alternative than the deal on offer, but a “crash out” hard Brexit is the more likely outcome if May does not prevail.
Ties of blood It is important that good relations between Ireland and the UK are maintained whatever the ultimate Brexit deal. This is not simply as a matter of economic self-interest. The ties of blood, language and culture that exist between the two islands are too important for relations to be soured.
One of the great benefits of the Belfast Agreement was that, whatever about its failure to deliver a stable administration in Northern Ireland, it facilitated the flowering of truly close and friendly relations between the governments in Dublin and London.
This simply reflected the reality of the relations that already existed between the vast majority of Irish and English people. Just look at the two big sporting announcements of the past week. One was that the Irish soccer team will again be managed by Mick McCarthy, a tough Yorkshire man who played his heart out for Ireland on the field and managed the team that got to the World Cup finals in 2002.
The other was the announcement that English rugby league legend Andy Farrell, father of current English rugby union star Owen Farrell, will succeed Joe Schmidt as manager of the Irish rugby team.
McCarthy and Farrell, whose surnames leave no doubt about their ancestry, represent the intertwined relationship of the two islands. Hopefully they will bring honour and glory to this country in the years ahead and, with luck, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg will be relegated to the margins of history.
I have to strongly disagree with this view. The contempt and ridicule that the UK is currently receiving from the rest of the civilised world is fully justified. Similarly, the powerful elites who sowed the seeds of this Brexit disaster and the fools who voted for it deserve never ending contempt and ridicule. After nearly 3 years debate and after every single Brexit premise and promise has foundered on the hard rock face of truth, reality and facts, the country is now in deep self inflicted peril. I am truly truly embarrassed to be a citizen of this country. I think I am experiencing the same feelings as the non Nazi voting Germans must have felt in the 1930s.
One, if not the most, ridiculously OTT and wholey inaccurate analogies made in this whole Brexit mess.
OTT puts it mildly.
Just one example of so many I could have used:
“Numerous people fell victim to the Nazi regime for political, social, or racial reasons. Germans were among the first victims persecuted because of their political activities. Many died in concentration camps, but most were released after their spirit was broken. Germans who suffered from mental or physical handicaps were killed under a "euthanasia" program. Other Germans were incarcerated for being homosexuals, criminals, or nonconformists; these people, although treated brutally, were never slated for utter annihilation as were the Jews.”
And, behind the subscription paywall, a warning from Stephen Collins that Irish people not get too haughty when watching Brexit "unfold"...
Brexit is no excuse for bashing the British
Irish sneering at UK’s nervous breakdown is offensive and counter-productive
Brexit is the most compelling political drama of our age not only because the consequences will be with us for generations but because nobody knows what the next act in the coming weeks is going to bring us, never mind what the final scene will be.
Most political crises involve the fate of political parties or leading politicians and follow certain generally accepted rules of engagement which have little direct bearing on the lives of ordinary people, but the outcome of this one will affect the lives of more than 60 million people in a direct fashion.
It will also have a serious impact on the lives of people on both parts of this island and that is why it has absorbed so much attention from Irish politicians, officials and the media.
Some letter writers to this paper have bemoaned the sheer volume of the coverage but, given the overwhelming importance of the issue and the unpredictable nature of the outcome, it puts all other issues in the shade.
The official Irish response to Brexit has been tough but professional with senior politicians and diplomats working to protect the national interest by getting cast-iron assurances on the avoidance of a hard border while also being mindful of the need to ensure the best possible trading arrangements between the European Union and the United Kingdom in the long term.
However, some of the commentary around Brexit has provided a pretext for a return to the kind of nasty British bashing that in the past helped to sour relations between the people of the two islands and the two communities in the North. Of course the decision of the British people to leave the EU was a short-sighted one, facilitated by unscrupulous politicians like Boris Johnson, but there is no escaping the fact that, for whatever reason, a majority voted to leave.
That’s democracy.
Spurious grounds It is no harm to remember that twice since the beginning of this century the Irish people have voted down EU treaties on utterly spurious grounds. Given the positive image of the EU in this country, by contrast with the UK, and the clear economic benefits of membership, the No votes to the Nice and Lisbon treaties showed just how open electorates can be to manipulation.
Sneering at the foolishness of the British people and taking pleasure at the political contortions required of Theresa May and her ministers to make the best of a bad lot is not simply unneighbourly but potentially dangerous. Is the mirror image of the attitude of those in the UK who demonised the EU for so long.
We have always been very touchy in this country about the condescending attitude of some British politicians and commentators who struggle to understand our concerns. Now that the British are having what amounts to a political nervous breakdown, some of the sneering on this side of the Irish Sea is offensive as well as counter-productive.
At this stage it is strongly in the interests of the Irish people on both sides of the border that Theresa May can persuade the House of Commons to ratify the deal she has done with the EU. It appears very unlikely that she will be able to accomplish this on December 11th but the deal may well come back for a second vote shortly before or after Christmas.
There is an outside chance that the majority in the Commons who favour a continuing close relationship with the EU may prevail over the Tory ultras and the Labour hard-left and vote for a better alternative than the deal on offer, but a “crash out” hard Brexit is the more likely outcome if May does not prevail.
Ties of blood It is important that good relations between Ireland and the UK are maintained whatever the ultimate Brexit deal. This is not simply as a matter of economic self-interest. The ties of blood, language and culture that exist between the two islands are too important for relations to be soured.
One of the great benefits of the Belfast Agreement was that, whatever about its failure to deliver a stable administration in Northern Ireland, it facilitated the flowering of truly close and friendly relations between the governments in Dublin and London.
This simply reflected the reality of the relations that already existed between the vast majority of Irish and English people. Just look at the two big sporting announcements of the past week. One was that the Irish soccer team will again be managed by Mick McCarthy, a tough Yorkshire man who played his heart out for Ireland on the field and managed the team that got to the World Cup finals in 2002.
The other was the announcement that English rugby league legend Andy Farrell, father of current English rugby union star Owen Farrell, will succeed Joe Schmidt as manager of the Irish rugby team.
McCarthy and Farrell, whose surnames leave no doubt about their ancestry, represent the intertwined relationship of the two islands. Hopefully they will bring honour and glory to this country in the years ahead and, with luck, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg will be relegated to the margins of history.
I have to strongly disagree with this view. The contempt and ridicule that the UK is currently receiving from the rest of the civilised world is fully justified. Similarly, the powerful elites who sowed the seeds of this Brexit disaster and the fools who voted for it deserve never ending contempt and ridicule. After nearly 3 years debate and after every single Brexit premise and promise has foundered on the hard rock face of truth, reality and facts, the country is now in deep self inflicted peril. I am truly truly embarrassed to be a citizen of this country. I think I am experiencing the same feelings as the non Nazi voting Germans must have felt in the 1930s.
If you are comparing Britain today with Nazi Germany you are either very drunk or you are Andrew Adonis.
And, behind the subscription paywall, a warning from Stephen Collins that Irish people not get too haughty when watching Brexit "unfold"...
Brexit is no excuse for bashing the British
Irish sneering at UK’s nervous breakdown is offensive and counter-productive
Brexit is the most compelling political drama of our age not only because the consequences will be with us for generations but because nobody knows what the next act in the coming weeks is going to bring us, never mind what the final scene will be.
Some letter writers to this paper have bemoaned the sheer volume of the coverage but, given the overwhelming importance of the issue and the unpredictable nature of the outcome, it puts all other issues in the shade.
The official Irish response to Brexit has been tough but professional with senior politicians and diplomats working to protect the national interest by getting cast-iron assurances on the avoidance of a hard border while also being mindful of the need to ensure the best possible trading arrangements between the European Union and the United Kingdom in the long term.
However, some of the commentary around Brexit has provided a pretext for a return to the kind of nasty British bashing that in the past helped to sour relations between the people of the two islands and the two communities in the North. Of course the decision of the British people to leave the EU was a short-sighted one, facilitated by unscrupulous politicians like Boris Johnson, but there is no escaping the fact that, for whatever reason, a majority voted to leave.
That’s democracy.
Spurious grounds It is no harm to remember that twice since the beginning of this century the Irish people have voted down EU treaties on utterly spurious grounds. Given the positive image of the EU in this country, by contrast with the UK, and the clear economic benefits of membership, the No votes to the Nice and Lisbon treaties showed just how open electorates can be to manipulation.
Sneering at the foolishness of the British people and taking pleasure at the political contortions required of Theresa May and her ministers to make the best of a bad lot is not simply unneighbourly but potentially dangerous. Is the mirror image of the attitude of those in the UK who demonised the EU for so long.
We have always been very touchy in this country about the condescending attitude of some British politicians and commentators who struggle to understand our concerns. Now that the British are having what amounts to a political nervous breakdown, some of the sneering on this side of the Irish Sea is offensive as well as counter-productive.
At this stage it is strongly in the interests of the Irish people on both sides of the border that Theresa May can persuade the House of Commons to ratify the deal she has done with the EU. It appears very unlikely that she will be able to accomplish this on December 11th but the deal may well come back for a second vote shortly before or after Christmas.
There is an outside chance that the majority in the Commons who favour a continuing close relationship with the EU may prevail over the Tory ultras and the Labour hard-left and vote for a better alternative than the deal on offer, but a “crash out” hard Brexit is the more likely outcome if May does not prevail.
Ties of blood It is important that good relations between Ireland and the UK are maintained whatever the ultimate Brexit deal. This is not simply as a matter of economic self-interest. The ties of blood, language and culture that exist between the two islands are too important for relations to be soured.
One of the great benefits of the Belfast Agreement was that, whatever about its failure to deliver a stable administration in Northern Ireland, it facilitated the flowering of truly close and friendly relations between the governments in Dublin and London.
This simply reflected the reality of the relations that already existed between the vast majority of Irish and English people. Just look at the two big sporting announcements of the past week. One was that the Irish soccer team will again be managed by Mick McCarthy, a tough Yorkshire man who played his heart out for Ireland on the field and managed the team that
McCarthy and Farrell, whose surnames leave no doubt about their ancestry, represent the intertwined relationship of the two islands. Hopefully they will bring honour and glory to this country in the years ahead and, with luck, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg will be relegated to the margins of history.
I have to strongly disagree with this view. The contempt and ridicule that the UK is currently receiving from the rest of the civilised world is fully justified. Similarly, the powerful elites who sowed the seeds of this Brexit disaster and the fools who voted for it deserve never ending contempt and ridicule. After nearly 3 years debate and after every single Brexit premise and promise has foundered on the hard rock face of truth, reality and facts, the country is now in deep self inflicted peril. I am truly truly embarrassed to be a citizen of this country. I think I am experiencing the same feelings as the non Nazi voting Germans must have felt in the 1930s.
One, if not the most, ridiculously OTT and wholey inaccurate analogies made in this whole Brexit mess.
OTT puts it mildly.
Just one example of so many I could have used:
“Numerous people fell victim to the Nazi regime for political, social, or racial reasons. Germans were among the first victims persecuted because of their political activities. Many died in concentration camps, but most were released after their spirit was broken. Germans who suffered from mental or physical handicaps were killed under a "euthanasia" program. Other Germans were incarcerated for being homosexuals, criminals, or nonconformists; these people, although treated brutally, were never slated for utter annihilation as were the Jews.”
The Nazi party started winning votes in the early thirties. This was long before the persecution of the Jewish community began in about 1938 and before the mass killings of Jews began in 1941. The Nazi party did not run on a holocaust policy in the early thirties. The term wasn’t even in use then. People outside Germany were astonished to see the German population begin voting for a right wing populist party that blamed all the ills of German society on the Jews and other outsiders and generally won favour by spreading lies and disinformation. Just like the Brexit movement. I am not the first to make the comparison with the rise of the Nazis in the early thirties. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/ian-mcewan-decision-on-brexit-vote-reminds-me-of-the-third-reich
You should maybe read up on the early years of the Nazi party before getting on your high horse.
And, behind the subscription paywall, a warning from Stephen Collins that Irish people not get too haughty when watching Brexit "unfold"...
Brexit is no excuse for bashing the British
Irish sneering at UK’s nervous breakdown is offensive and counter-productive
Brexit is the most compelling political drama of our age not only because the consequences will be with us for generations but because nobody knows what the next act in the coming weeks is going to bring us, never mind what the final scene will be.
Most political crises involve the fate of political parties or leading politicians and follow certain generally accepted rules of engagement which have little direct bearing on the lives of ordinary people, but the outcome of this one will affect the lives of more than 60 million people in a direct fashion.
It will also have a serious impact on the lives of people on both parts of this island and that is why it has absorbed so much attention from Irish politicians, officials and the media.
Some letter writers to this paper have bemoaned the sheer volume of the coverage but, given the overwhelming importance of the issue and the unpredictable nature of the outcome, it puts all other issues in the shade.
The official Irish response to Brexit has been tough but professional with senior politicians and diplomats working to protect the national interest by getting cast-iron assurances on the avoidance of a hard border while also being mindful of the need to ensure the best possible trading arrangements between the European Union and the United Kingdom in the long term.
However, some of the commentary around Brexit has provided a pretext for a return to the kind of nasty British bashing that in the past helped to sour relations between the people of the two islands and the two communities in the North. Of course the decision of the British people to leave the EU was a short-sighted one, facilitated by unscrupulous politicians like Boris Johnson, but there is no escaping the fact that, for whatever reason, a majority voted to leave.
That’s democracy.
Spurious grounds It is no harm to remember that twice since the beginning of this century the Irish people have voted down EU treaties on utterly spurious grounds. Given the positive image of the EU in this country, by contrast with the UK, and the clear economic benefits of membership, the No votes to the Nice and Lisbon treaties showed just how open electorates can be to manipulation.
Sneering at the foolishness of the British people and taking pleasure at the political contortions required of Theresa May and her ministers to make the best of a bad lot is not simply unneighbourly but potentially dangerous. Is the mirror image of the attitude of those in the UK who demonised the EU for so long.
We have always been very touchy in this country about the condescending attitude of some British politicians and commentators who struggle to understand our concerns. Now that the British are having what amounts to a political nervous breakdown, some of the sneering on this side of the Irish Sea is offensive as well as counter-productive.
At this stage it is strongly in the interests of the Irish people on both sides of the border that Theresa May can persuade the House of Commons to ratify the deal she has done with the EU. It appears very unlikely that she will be able to accomplish this on December 11th but the deal may well come back for a second vote shortly before or after Christmas.
There is an outside chance that the majority in the Commons who favour a continuing close relationship with the EU may prevail over the Tory ultras and the Labour hard-left and vote for a better alternative than the deal on offer, but a “crash out” hard Brexit is the more likely outcome if May does not prevail.
Ties of blood It is important that good relations between Ireland and the UK are maintained whatever the ultimate Brexit deal. This is not simply as a matter of economic self-interest. The ties of blood, language and culture that exist between the two islands are too important for relations to be soured.
One of the great benefits of the Belfast Agreement was that, whatever about its failure to deliver a stable administration in Northern Ireland, it facilitated the flowering of truly close and friendly relations between the governments in Dublin and London.
This simply reflected the reality of the relations that already existed between the vast majority of Irish and English people. Just look at the two big sporting announcements of the past week. One was that the Irish soccer team will again be managed by Mick McCarthy, a tough Yorkshire man who played his heart out for Ireland on the field and managed the team that got to the World Cup finals in 2002.
The other was the announcement that English rugby league legend Andy Farrell, father of current English rugby union star Owen Farrell, will succeed Joe Schmidt as manager of the Irish rugby team.
McCarthy and Farrell, whose surnames leave no doubt about their ancestry, represent the intertwined relationship of the two islands. Hopefully they will bring honour and glory to this country in the years ahead and, with luck, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg will be relegated to the margins of history.
I have to strongly disagree with this view. The contempt and ridicule that the UK is currently receiving from the rest of the civilised world is fully justified. Similarly, the powerful elites who sowed the seeds of this Brexit disaster and the fools who voted for it deserve never ending contempt and ridicule. After nearly 3 years debate and after every single Brexit premise and promise has foundered on the hard rock face of truth, reality and facts, the country is now in deep self inflicted peril. I am truly truly embarrassed to be a citizen of this country. I think I am experiencing the same feelings as the non Nazi voting Germans must have felt in the 1930s.
If you are comparing Britain today with Nazi Germany you are either very drunk or you are Andrew Adonis.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I was unaware that Andrew Adonis had made exactly the same point about the early Nazi movement and Brexit.
And, behind the subscription paywall, a warning from Stephen Collins that Irish people not get too haughty when watching Brexit "unfold"...
Brexit is no excuse for bashing the British
Irish sneering at UK’s nervous breakdown is offensive and counter-productive
Brexit is the most compelling political drama of our age not only because the consequences will be with us for generations but because nobody knows what the next act in the coming weeks is going to bring us, never mind what the final scene will be.
Most political crises involve the fate of political parties or leading politicians and follow certain generally accepted rules of engagement which have little direct bearing on the lives of ordinary people, but the outcome of this one will affect the lives of more than 60 million people in a direct fashion.
It will also have a serious impact on the lives of people on both parts of this island and that is why it has absorbed so much attention from Irish politicians, officials and the media.
Some letter writers to this paper have bemoaned the sheer volume of the coverage but, given the overwhelming importance of the issue and the unpredictable nature of the outcome, it puts all other issues in the shade.
The official Irish response to Brexit has been tough but professional with senior politicians and diplomats working to protect the national interest by getting cast-iron assurances on the avoidance of a hard border while also being mindful of the need to ensure the best possible trading arrangements between the European Union and the United Kingdom in the long term.
However, some of the commentary around Brexit has provided a pretext for a return to the kind of nasty British bashing that in the past helped to sour relations between the people of the two islands and the two communities in the North. Of course the decision of the British people to leave the EU was a short-sighted one, facilitated by unscrupulous politicians like Boris Johnson, but there is no escaping the fact that, for whatever reason, a majority voted to leave.
That’s democracy.
Spurious grounds It is no harm to remember that twice since the beginning of this century the Irish people have voted down EU treaties on utterly spurious grounds. Given the positive image of the EU in this country, by contrast with the UK, and the clear economic benefits of membership, the No votes to the Nice and Lisbon treaties showed just how open electorates can be to manipulation.
Sneering at the foolishness of the British people and taking pleasure at the political contortions required of Theresa May and her ministers to make the best of a bad lot is not simply unneighbourly but potentially dangerous. Is the mirror image of the attitude of those in the UK who demonised the EU for so long.
We have always been very touchy in this country about the condescending attitude of some British politicians and commentators who struggle to understand our concerns. Now that the British are having what amounts to a political nervous breakdown, some of the sneering on this side of the Irish Sea is offensive as well as counter-productive.
At this stage it is strongly in the interests of the Irish people on both sides of the border that Theresa May can persuade the House of Commons to ratify the deal she has done with the EU. It appears very unlikely that she will be able to accomplish this on December 11th but the deal may well come back for a second vote shortly before or after Christmas.
There is an outside chance that the majority in the Commons who favour a continuing close relationship with the EU may prevail over the Tory ultras and the Labour hard-left and vote for a better alternative than the deal on offer, but a “crash out” hard Brexit is the more likely outcome if May does not prevail.
Ties of blood It is important that good relations between Ireland and the UK are maintained whatever the ultimate Brexit deal. This is not simply as a matter of economic self-interest. The ties of blood, language and culture that exist between the two islands are too important for relations to be soured.
One of the great benefits of the Belfast Agreement was that, whatever about its failure to deliver a stable administration in Northern Ireland, it facilitated the flowering of truly close and friendly relations between the governments in Dublin and London.
This simply reflected the reality of the relations that already existed between the vast majority of Irish and English people. Just look at the two big sporting announcements of the past week. One was that the Irish soccer team will again be managed by Mick McCarthy, a tough Yorkshire man who played his heart out for Ireland on the field and managed the team that got to the World Cup finals in 2002.
The other was the announcement that English rugby league legend Andy Farrell, father of current English rugby union star Owen Farrell, will succeed Joe Schmidt as manager of the Irish rugby team.
McCarthy and Farrell, whose surnames leave no doubt about their ancestry, represent the intertwined relationship of the two islands. Hopefully they will bring honour and glory to this country in the years ahead and, with luck, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg will be relegated to the margins of history.
I have to strongly disagree with this view. The contempt and ridicule that the UK is currently receiving from the rest of the civilised world is fully justified. Similarly, the powerful elites who sowed the seeds of this Brexit disaster and the fools who voted for it deserve never ending contempt and ridicule. After nearly 3 years debate and after every single Brexit premise and promise has foundered on the hard rock face of truth, reality and facts, the country is now in deep self inflicted peril. I am truly truly embarrassed to be a citizen of this country. I think I am experiencing the same feelings as the non Nazi voting Germans must have felt in the 1930s.
One, if not the most, ridiculously OTT and wholey inaccurate analogies made in this whole Brexit mess.
For rediculously OTT and wholly inaccurate posts made in this whole Brexit mess you should reread your ridiculous rants accusing Corbyn of being racist and an anti Semite.
A country divided against itself is a very sad sight and I’m afraid that’s what we are.
In my professional life I am a CEO of a social business. We have four different businesses streams that are discreet yet we try to integrate them for added value to our social aims. It’s relatively complex work and the challenges are many and varied
Notwithstanding the above my team and I rarely if ever struggle to find appropriate solutions to the challenges that we face. I work with creative committed people who have different political opinions and yet we align around the need to meet the challenges of a common cause
I voted to leave the EU for various reasons but all as a result of my left wing perspective. I would change my vote tomorrow if I had another chance , for two fundamental reasons. The ills of the EU are many but they pale into insignificance as compared to the damage that can be done by living in a divided country. Secondly I have decided that as a 50 year old I would happily now bow to the desire of the young in this country who wish in overwhelming numbers to remain. As it’s that generation/s who will build the country I will live in as an old man I would wish them to have every chance to succeed. Incidentally it’s a matter of fact that seniors , that is plus 65’s voted to leave in overwhelming numbers. For perfectly obvious reasons those numbers will continue to diminish as time marches on
The leadership from May has been appalling, divisive and partisan within her own party let alone without. The only option now with any hope of success is a new Tory leader or Jeremy Corbyn were he to be in charge to lead a form of a government of National Unity.
Adversarial , polemic politics has failed us and it’s time for a change of direction. It may seem like a fatuous likelihood but it’s been done before and was a highly successful strategy
May can sloganise all she wants about MP,s voting in the interest of National Unity but her behaviour over the last two years has been anything but and parliament knows it.Her last throw of the dice is to reach over the heads of parliamentarians to the people and hope we won’t sniff out the lie.
Churchill was a deeply flawed man and leader. He was an alcoholic who in the early thirties had some admiration for Hitler. He was pretty much the first politician to threaten to use chemical weapons on civilian populations. He held some deeply racist views to boot. And yet and it’s a huge yet , at a moment of national crisis he brought to bear the kind of National leadership that changed forever the history of our world and stopped a maniacal despot in his tracks
Oh for that kind of leadership now in our time. Someone to rise above the shitstorm and to do something that brings us together and steers parliament and us through this storm. I would love that to be a Labour politician but frankly I care not a hoot where they hail from politically if they can rise above the fray and genuinely act in the National leadership, starting with a government of National Unity
If my team and I can work together for the good of our beneficiaries surely to God parliament can.
Brilliant. As we ‘sleep walk’ toward a no deal, the two tubes want to have a tv debate about it???? To what end? So May can repeat over and over ‘will of the people’, ‘the British people have spoken’ and Corbyn can say a lot without actually telling us that much. More incompetence on show than Meire’s tenure at Charlton
Brilliant. As we ‘sleep walk’ toward a no deal, the two tubes want to have a tv debate about it???? To what end? So May can repeat over and over ‘will of the people’, ‘the British people have spoken’ and Corbyn can say a lot without actually telling us that much. More incompetence on show than Meire’s tenure at Charlton
So we can all cast an informed vote in the third referendum that neither May or Corbyn think we should have.
The idea of TV debates used to make my skin crawl, but the parliamentry debate was nothing more than a lynching that the vast majority didn't watch.
I believe the more information that's out there the better, put it at a time no one has an excuse to miss it and you may have the chance to get effective support or opposition.
There'll be repetitive sound bites and 3 adjective descriptions aplenty, but they'll be exposed.
And, behind the subscription paywall, a warning from Stephen Collins that Irish people not get too haughty when watching Brexit "unfold"...
Brexit is no excuse for bashing the British
Irish sneering at UK’s nervous breakdown is offensive and counter-productive
Brexit is the most compelling political drama of our age not only because the consequences will be with us for generations but because nobody knows what the next act in the coming weeks is going to bring us, never mind what the final scene will be.
Most political crises involve the fate of political parties or leading politicians and follow certain generally accepted rules of engagement which have little direct bearing on the lives of ordinary people, but the outcome of this one will affect the lives of more than 60 million people in a direct fashion.
It will also have a serious impact on the lives of people on both parts of this island and that is why it has absorbed so much attention from Irish politicians, officials and the media.
Some letter writers to this paper have bemoaned the sheer volume of the coverage but, given the overwhelming importance of the issue and the unpredictable nature of the outcome, it puts all other issues in the shade.
The official Irish response to Brexit has been tough but professional with senior politicians and diplomats working to protect the national interest by getting cast-iron assurances on the avoidance of a hard border while also being mindful of the need to ensure the best possible trading arrangements between the European Union and the United Kingdom in the long term.
However, some of the commentary around Brexit has provided a pretext for a return to the kind of nasty British bashing that in the past helped to sour relations between the people of the two islands and the two communities in the North. Of course the decision of the British people to leave the EU was a short-sighted one, facilitated by unscrupulous politicians like Boris Johnson, but there is no escaping the fact that, for whatever reason, a majority voted to leave.
That’s democracy.
Spurious grounds It is no harm to remember that twice since the beginning of this century the Irish people have voted down EU treaties on utterly spurious grounds. Given the positive image of the EU in this country, by contrast with the UK, and the clear economic benefits of membership, the No votes to the Nice and Lisbon treaties showed just how open electorates can be to manipulation.
Sneering at the foolishness of the British people and taking pleasure at the political contortions required of Theresa May and her ministers to make the best of a bad lot is not simply unneighbourly but potentially dangerous. Is the mirror image of the attitude of those in the UK who demonised the EU for so long.
We have always been very touchy in this country about the condescending attitude of some British politicians and commentators who struggle to understand our concerns. Now that the British are having what amounts to a political nervous breakdown, some of the sneering on this side of the Irish Sea is offensive as well as counter-productive.
At this stage it is strongly in the interests of the Irish people on both sides of the border that Theresa May can persuade the House of Commons to ratify the deal she has done with the EU. It appears very unlikely that she will be able to accomplish this on December 11th but the deal may well come back for a second vote shortly before or after Christmas.
There is an outside chance that the majority in the Commons who favour a continuing close relationship with the EU may prevail over the Tory ultras and the Labour hard-left and vote for a better alternative than the deal on offer, but a “crash out” hard Brexit is the more likely outcome if May does not prevail.
Ties of blood It is important that good relations between Ireland and the UK are maintained whatever the ultimate Brexit deal. This is not simply as a matter of economic self-interest. The ties of blood, language and culture that exist between the two islands are too important for relations to be soured.
One of the great benefits of the Belfast Agreement was that, whatever about its failure to deliver a stable administration in Northern Ireland, it facilitated the flowering of truly close and friendly relations between the governments in Dublin and London.
This simply reflected the reality of the relations that already existed between the vast majority of Irish and English people. Just look at the two big sporting announcements of the past week. One was that the Irish soccer team will again be managed by Mick McCarthy, a tough Yorkshire man who played his heart out for Ireland on the field and managed the team that got to the World Cup finals in 2002.
The other was the announcement that English rugby league legend Andy Farrell, father of current English rugby union star Owen Farrell, will succeed Joe Schmidt as manager of the Irish rugby team.
McCarthy and Farrell, whose surnames leave no doubt about their ancestry, represent the intertwined relationship of the two islands. Hopefully they will bring honour and glory to this country in the years ahead and, with luck, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg will be relegated to the margins of history.
I have to strongly disagree with this view. The contempt and ridicule that the UK is currently receiving from the rest of the civilised world is fully justified. Similarly, the powerful elites who sowed the seeds of this Brexit disaster and the fools who voted for it deserve never ending contempt and ridicule. After nearly 3 years debate and after every single Brexit premise and promise has foundered on the hard rock face of truth, reality and facts, the country is now in deep self inflicted peril. I am truly truly embarrassed to be a citizen of this country. I think I am experiencing the same feelings as the non Nazi voting Germans must have felt in the 1930s.
One, if not the most, ridiculously OTT and wholey inaccurate analogies made in this whole Brexit mess.
For rediculously OTT and wholly inaccurate posts made in this whole Brexit mess you should reread your ridiculous rants accusing Corbyn of being racist and an anti Semite.
Didn't you get the memo? The cult don't want to debate Corbyn's anti-Semitism on here as they don't want to admit what Margaret Hodge called him to his face (disciplinary action withdrawn just as threats to sue papers over laying threath for terrorists disappeared when photos proved it happened) was true.
Meanwhile, this sort of anti-Semitism carries on almost unchecked in Corbyn's labour party as it is given license by the Dear Leader's words and actions, such as the wreath laying and fighting tooth and nail against the IHRA definition that he kept rejecting even when his leadership team forced the party to accept it.
Should we agree at this point that who said what to whom about Nazi Germany isn't a relevant topic on this thread about the current issues facing the UK with a potential exit from the EU? I'm sure there are other corners of Charlton Life where those who are fascinated by squabbles about the Leader of the Opposition's view on antisemitism or the second world war could be discussed in perpetuity. But, just as we've finally developed an interesting and worthwhile exchange of views on the relevant thread topic, and soon after one particularly disruptive poster has been persuaded to desist in posting less relevant comments, it would be a shame if this thread became the latest to be flooded by those with an unhealthy fixation on all things Corbyn.
The whole Brexit saga is galloping towards its final chapters. It would be great if this thread stayed on-topic. After all, there's probably only ten or twenty years left until Brexit is finished.
In terms of bringing the UK together on my part that will be a tricky ask.
My accident of birth makes me part of the UK, but I don't want to collaborate or cooperate with many others in the UK. Most especially any immigrant hating hypocritical racists.
Now I personally think such people are more likely to have voted leave rather than remain, they are amongst the winners, and the UK is now theirs. How can a person who feels like me, someone who noticed an immediate rise in race hate incidents after the vote (some involving family members) ever form an understanding with 'foreigner' haters?
If the referendum achieved anything it exposed the depth of division in the UK that has always been there but hidden.
This week we see the incident of a Syrian refugee, who had already had his arm broken in an attack being attacked at his school by an older and bigger student. The Syrian boys sister had already been attacked previously.
I wonder what it is in UK society that leads to this. I would never want to be reconciled to people like the attacker. When the enemy is within as it were then a coming together with them is impossible for me.
Should we agree at this point that who said what to whom about Nazi Germany isn't a relevant topic on this thread about the current issues facing the UK with a potential exit from the EU?
I agree, it's a very ugly analogy and, despite the fact that I could provide dozens of references to show that, I take your point and will desist.
A country divided against itself is a very sad sight and I’m afraid that’s what we are.
In my professional life I am a CEO of a social business. We have four different businesses streams that are discreet yet we try to integrate them for added value to our social aims. It’s relatively complex work and the challenges are many and varied
Notwithstanding the above my team and I rarely if ever struggle to find appropriate solutions to the challenges that we face. I work with creative committed people who have different political opinions and yet we align around the need to meet the challenges of a common cause
I voted to leave the EU for various reasons but all as a result of my left wing perspective. I would change my vote tomorrow if I had another chance , for two fundamental reasons. The ills of the EU are many but they pale into insignificance as compared to the damage that can be done by living in a divided country. Secondly I have decided that as a 50 year old I would happily now bow to the desire of the young in this country who wish in overwhelming numbers to remain. As it’s that generation/s who will build the country I will live in as an old man I would wish them to have every chance to succeed. Incidentally it’s a matter of fact that seniors , that is plus 65’s voted to leave in overwhelming numbers. For perfectly obvious reasons those numbers will continue to diminish as time marches on
The leadership from May has been appalling, divisive and partisan within her own party let alone without. The only option now with any hope of success is a new Tory leader or Jeremy Corbyn were he to be in charge to lead a form of a government of National Unity.
Adversarial , polemic politics has failed us and it’s time for a change of direction. It may seem like a fatuous likelihood but it’s been done before and was a highly successful strategy
May can sloganise all she wants about MP,s voting in the interest of National Unity but her behaviour over the last two years has been anything but and parliament knows it.Her last throw of the dice is to reach over the heads of parliamentarians to the people and hope we won’t sniff out the lie.
Churchill was a deeply flawed man and leader. He was an alcoholic who in the early thirties had some admiration for Hitler. He was pretty much the first politician to threaten to use chemical weapons on civilian populations. He held some deeply racist views to boot. And yet and it’s a huge yet , at a moment of national crisis he brought to bear the kind of National leadership that changed forever the history of our world and stopped a maniacal despot in his tracks
Oh for that kind of leadership now in our time. Someone to rise above the shitstorm and to do something that brings us together and steers parliament and us through this storm. I would love that to be a Labour politician but frankly I care not a hoot where they hail from politically if they can rise above the fray and genuinely act in the National leadership, starting with a government of National Unity
If my team and I can work together for the good of our beneficiaries surely to God parliament can.
In terms of bringing the UK together on my part that will be a tricky ask.
My accident of birth makes me part of the UK, but I don't want to collaborate or cooperate with many others in the UK. Most especially any immigrant hating hypocritical racists.
Now I personally think such people are more likely to have voted leave rather than remain, they are amongst the winners, and the UK is now theirs. How can a person who feels like me, someone who noticed an immediate rise in race hate incidents after the vote (some involving family members) ever form an understanding with 'foreigner' haters?
If the referendum achieved anything it exposed the depth of division in the UK that has always been there but hidden.
This week we see the incident of a Syrian refugee, who had already had his arm broken in an attack being attacked at his school by an older and bigger student. The Syrian boys sister had already been attacked previously. I wonder what it is in UK society that leads to this. I would never want to be reconciled to people like the attacker. When the enemy is within as it were then a coming together with them is impossible for me.
I share your worries about where we are heading to as a society @sethplum. But when you have utter dickheads like Tommy Robinson responsible for poisonous shite like this..
Should we agree at this point that who said what to whom about Nazi Germany isn't a relevant topic on this thread about the current issues facing the UK with a potential exit from the EU? I'm sure there are other corners of Charlton Life where those who are fascinated by squabbles about the Leader of the Opposition's view on antisemitism or the second world war could be discussed in perpetuity. But, just as we've finally developed an interesting and worthwhile exchange of views on the relevant thread topic, and soon after one particularly disruptive poster has been persuaded to desist in posting less relevant comments, it would be a shame if this thread became the latest to be flooded by those with an unhealthy fixation on all things Corbyn.
The whole Brexit saga is galloping towards its final chapters. It would be great if this thread stayed on-topic. After all, there's probably only ten or twenty years left until Brexit is finished.
I think we should agree, not least because the word "Nazi" is a dog-whistle everywehere, regardless of whether the user intended it to be so.
Nevertheless I wish to say that I both understood and had sympathy with the underlying point @Red_in_SE8 wished to make. Possibly because I sit literally in the centre of Europe and see the populist movements from a different perspective - including Britain and Brexit's role in it. All intelligent and moderate people should carefully monitor what is going on, with concern; and most of all not to pretend that Britain is immune from it. That was of course a mistake the country made in the 30s; but this time, is different anyway, because Britain is front and centre of the trend. Let's keep the issue firmly in its place on this thread, but let us not pretend that it doesn't affect the UK nor that it has nothing to do with Brexit.
Question Time studio ROARS as audience member champions NO DEAL – 'nation of innovators' THE Question Time studio roared with applause last night after an audience member made a rousing case for leaving the EU with no deal, reminding the panel that “we are a nation of innovators” who have “always” done well.
At the Manor Farm Brexit debate, the creatures watching it on TV looked from Corbyn to May, and from May to Corbyn, and from Corbyn to May again, but it was impossible to say which was which.
Question Time studio ROARS as audience member champions NO DEAL – 'nation of innovators' THE Question Time studio roared with applause last night after an audience member made a rousing case for leaving the EU with no deal, reminding the panel that “we are a nation of innovators” who have “always” done well.
I fell asleep to it. I couldn't quite work it out because there was a large round applause for this, but an equally vociferous round of applause for the next comment about giving the people a final say. Then again this was Penzance
Question Time studio ROARS as audience member champions NO DEAL – 'nation of innovators' THE Question Time studio roared with applause last night after an audience member made a rousing case for leaving the EU with no deal, reminding the panel that “we are a nation of innovators” who have “always” done well.
Just shows how hopelessly uninformed much of the electorate is if they think "no deal" should be in any way welcomed. A point anyone think Remain will comfortably win a second referendum should keep in mind.
Comments
Just one example of so many I could have used:
“Numerous people fell victim to the Nazi regime for political, social, or racial reasons. Germans were among the first victims persecuted because of their political activities. Many died in concentration camps, but most were released after their spirit was broken. Germans who suffered from mental or physical handicaps were killed under a "euthanasia" program. Other Germans were incarcerated for being homosexuals, criminals, or nonconformists; these people, although treated brutally, were never slated for utter annihilation as were the Jews.”
You should maybe read up on the early years of the Nazi party before getting on your high horse.
For rediculously OTT and wholly inaccurate posts made in this whole Brexit mess you should reread your ridiculous rants accusing Corbyn of being racist and an anti Semite.
(It’s nothing to be proud of, essentially means your incapable of non-extreme language when debating)
In my professional life I am a CEO of a social business. We have four different businesses streams that are discreet yet we try to integrate them for added value to our social aims. It’s relatively complex work and the challenges are many and varied
Notwithstanding the above my team and I rarely if ever struggle to find appropriate solutions to the challenges that we face. I work with creative committed people who have different political opinions and yet we align around the need to meet the challenges of a common cause
I voted to leave the EU for various reasons but all as a result of my left wing perspective. I would change my vote tomorrow if I had another chance , for two fundamental reasons. The ills of the EU are many but they pale into insignificance as compared to the damage that can be done by living in a divided country. Secondly I have decided that as a 50 year old I would happily now bow to the desire of the young in this country who wish in overwhelming numbers to remain. As it’s that generation/s who will build the country I will live in as an old man I would wish them to have every chance to succeed. Incidentally it’s a matter of fact that seniors , that is plus 65’s voted to leave in overwhelming numbers. For perfectly obvious reasons those numbers will continue to diminish as time marches on
The leadership from May has been appalling, divisive and partisan within her own party let alone without. The only option now with any hope of success is a new Tory leader or Jeremy Corbyn were he to be in charge to lead a form of a government of National Unity.
Adversarial , polemic politics has failed us and it’s time for a change of direction. It may seem like a fatuous likelihood but it’s been done before and was a highly successful strategy
May can sloganise all she wants about MP,s voting in the interest of National Unity but her behaviour over the last two years has been anything but and parliament knows it.Her last throw of the dice is to reach over the heads of parliamentarians to the people and hope we won’t sniff out the lie.
Churchill was a deeply flawed man and leader. He was an alcoholic who in the early thirties had some admiration for Hitler. He was pretty much the first politician to threaten to use chemical weapons on civilian populations. He held some deeply racist views to boot. And yet and it’s a huge yet , at a moment of national crisis he brought to bear the kind of National leadership that changed forever the history of our world and stopped a maniacal despot in his tracks
Oh for that kind of leadership now in our time. Someone to rise above the shitstorm and to do something that brings us together and steers parliament and us through this storm. I would love that to be a Labour politician but frankly I care not a hoot where they hail from politically if they can rise above the fray and genuinely act in the National leadership, starting with a government of National Unity
If my team and I can work together for the good of our beneficiaries surely to God parliament can.
I believe the more information that's out there the better, put it at a time no one has an excuse to miss it and you may have the chance to get effective support or opposition.
There'll be repetitive sound bites and 3 adjective descriptions aplenty, but they'll be exposed.
Meanwhile, this sort of anti-Semitism carries on almost unchecked in Corbyn's labour party as it is given license by the Dear Leader's words and actions, such as the wreath laying and fighting tooth and nail against the IHRA definition that he kept rejecting even when his leadership team forced the party to accept it.
The whole Brexit saga is galloping towards its final chapters. It would be great if this thread stayed on-topic. After all, there's probably only ten or twenty years left until Brexit is finished.
My accident of birth makes me part of the UK, but I don't want to collaborate or cooperate with many others in the UK. Most especially any immigrant hating hypocritical racists.
Now I personally think such people are more likely to have voted leave rather than remain, they are amongst the winners, and the UK is now theirs. How can a person who feels like me, someone who noticed an immediate rise in race hate incidents after the vote (some involving family members) ever form an understanding with 'foreigner' haters?
If the referendum achieved anything it exposed the depth of division in the UK that has always been there but hidden.
This week we see the incident of a Syrian refugee, who had already had his arm broken in an attack being attacked at his school by an older and bigger student. The Syrian boys sister had already been attacked previously.
I wonder what it is in UK society that leads to this. I would never want to be reconciled to people like the attacker. When the enemy is within as it were then a coming together with them is impossible for me.
(And, failing that - have you got any jobs going..?)
https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/29/tommy-robinson-admits-spreading-fake-news-about-muslims-school-gangs-8192842/
...courted by mainstream political parties, because they have 100,000's of followers, it's not helping the debate and unlikely to end well.
Nevertheless I wish to say that I both understood and had sympathy with the underlying point @Red_in_SE8 wished to make. Possibly because I sit literally in the centre of Europe and see the populist movements from a different perspective - including Britain and Brexit's role in it. All intelligent and moderate people should carefully monitor what is going on, with concern; and most of all not to pretend that Britain is immune from it. That was of course a mistake the country made in the 30s; but this time, is different anyway, because Britain is front and centre of the trend. Let's keep the issue firmly in its place on this thread, but let us not pretend that it doesn't affect the UK nor that it has nothing to do with Brexit.
THE Question Time studio roared with applause last night after an audience member made a rousing case for leaving the EU with no deal, reminding the panel that “we are a nation of innovators” who have “always” done well.
At the Manor Farm Brexit debate, the creatures watching it on TV looked from Corbyn to May, and from May to Corbyn, and from Corbyn to May again, but it was impossible to say which was which.
Employee of the month