I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
We've had 500 pages of this, so there's no point going over old ground ad finitum.
However, I suspect many Brexiteers were happy to accept a deal where we may be slightly worse off economically in the short/medium term, in exchange for having more more control over our laws and borders. I suspect very few believed we would be better off economically in the short term.
Not when they were promised sunlit uplands, Brexit bonus, holding all the cards, easiest deal in history, no Brexit downside
I attended a lecture last month by one of the accounting professions whereby the neutral opinion offered by one of the expert speakers was that (after explaining the pros and cons of the different bespoke deals already in place for certain countries (Canada, Swiss etc)), that a Norway style deal was the most likely option at that stage with a transition period thereafter that could effectively run for x number of years.
People seem to be suggesting that there is no better deal possible than what May has proposed. Does that mean the Norway style option was not viable..... or are there possible alternatives out there still??
Norway is very viable but includes paying the EU but not say on matters so is a no no for many.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
At the moment I can't see how there is any brexit in either the short of long term without the UK breaking the Good Friday Agreement. If that happens there would have to be a hard border on the island of Ireland. Technology, cameras, electronic dockets, trusted trader status...none of that will ever work in practice. The two reasons being if there is a border there needs to be an infrastructure to deal with transgressions, and the physical nature of the border, the Geography, means it can't be wholly controlled. Canada, Switzerland, Norway, Mays deal, no deal...none of them will ultimately work without breaking the GFA. Brexiters have the dilemma which says what they want has to override the GFA, if the UK breaks that treaty for the sake of brexit trouble will follow.
No offence but I put as much emphasis on those David Davies findings as I do any similar expert findings.
I’m in a job where I receive regular interest/inflation forecasts from the experts in that field, many of which prove to be a bag of shite.
Why? Because any of these projections are full of limitations and unknowns, obviously. And this scenario is the extreme of that. It’s guess work, educated guess work maybe but still guess work.
No offence but I put as much emphasis on those David Davies findings as I do any similar expert findings.
I’m in a job where I receive regular interest/inflation forecasts from the experts in that field, many of which prove to be a bag of shite.
Why? Because any of these projections are full of limitations and unknowns, obviously. And this scenario is the extreme of that. It’s guess work, educated guess work maybe but still guess work.
You’re right. Fuck it. Let’s hold hands and all jump together.
I attended a lecture last month by one of the accounting professions whereby the neutral opinion offered by one of the expert speakers was that (after explaining the pros and cons of the different bespoke deals already in place for certain countries (Canada, Swiss etc)), that a Norway style deal was the most likely option at that stage with a transition period thereafter that could effectively run for x number of years.
People seem to be suggesting that there is no better deal possible than what May has proposed. Does that mean the Norway style option was not viable..... or are there possible alternatives out there still??
The fascinating but depressing interplay continues with Brexiteer cabinet members now seeking to persuade May to seek some amendment of the backstop.
It will be very interesting if it happens what the EUs reaction will be to that.
It will so be interesting if she resists, will the cabinet split again and then force a no confidence vote.
On assumes part of this must happen today with the EU meeting tomorrow ?
And all of this on a weekend with no Charlton in action.
Havn’t the 27 already stated that the negotiations are over. Complete and unchangable ?
May is right. It’s the deal she has negotiated, no deal or no Brexit.
Two and a half years to reach where we now find ourselves. I can’t see the 27 allowing change other than perhaps extension to allow for a second vote or maybe a general election. Time has run out for a Norway, Canada plus tweak to where we currently are.
It’s squeaky bum time.
perhaps or perhaps not it is still a negotiation I think at this point (whats up with the quote feature)
No offence but I put as much emphasis on those David Davies findings as I do any similar expert findings.
I’m in a job where I receive regular interest/inflation forecasts from the experts in that field, many of which prove to be a bag of shite.
Why? Because any of these projections are full of limitations and unknowns, obviously. And this scenario is the extreme of that. It’s guess work, educated guess work maybe but still guess work.
All the more reason ‘not to rock the boat’ perhaps?
I attended a lecture last month by one of the accounting professions whereby the neutral opinion offered by one of the expert speakers was that (after explaining the pros and cons of the different bespoke deals already in place for certain countries (Canada, Swiss etc)), that a Norway style deal was the most likely option at that stage with a transition period thereafter that could effectively run for x number of years.
People seem to be suggesting that there is no better deal possible than what May has proposed. Does that mean the Norway style option was not viable..... or are there possible alternatives out there still??
The fascinating but depressing interplay continues with Brexiteer cabinet members now seeking to persuade May to seek some amendment of the backstop.
It will be very interesting if it happens what the EUs reaction will be to that.
It will so be interesting if she resists, will the cabinet split again and then force a no confidence vote.
On assumes part of this must happen today with the EU meeting tomorrow ?
And all of this on a weekend with no Charlton in action.
Havn’t the 27 already stated that the negotiations are over. Complete and unchangable ?
May is right. It’s the deal she has negotiated, no deal or no Brexit.
Two and a half years to reach where we now find ourselves. I can’t see the 27 allowing change other than perhaps extension to allow for a second vote or maybe a general election. Time has run out for a Norway, Canada plus tweak to where we currently are.
It’s squeaky bum time.
perhaps or perhaps not it is still a negotiation I think at this point (whats up with the quote feature)
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
If this sort of SPECIFIC information was available during the referendum campaign, I don't recall the likes of Cameron and Osborne strongly and continually emphasising it.
Yes of course they said we would be worse off and they said we would be immediately worse off after the votes were cast and result known, but I'm not aware of them strongly emphasising these specific figures.
The Remain campaign was about as effective as a Katrien Powerpoint presentation.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
Is there anyone who still feels that Brexit will be the impetus for other countries to leave the EU? This was predicted by many Brexiters but after the complete mess the UK are making of leaving it seems very far fetched now.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
I'm also a Labour Party member (dissident wing) and received this from Jeremy which really says very little new:
Dear sm
The government is falling apart before our eyes. Their half-baked deal has unravelled, the Prime Minister has lost all authority and is clearly incapable of delivering a Brexit deal that commands even the support of her Cabinet - let alone Parliament and the people of our country.
Our Party Conference agreed that this deal would be judged against our six tests, and if it failed to meet them we would vote against it.
After two years of bungled negotiations, the government has produced a botched deal that breaches the Prime Minister's own red lines, does not meet our six tests and will leave the country in an indefinite halfway house without a real say.
As I said in Parliament earlier today, people around the country will be feeling anxious about the industries they work in, the jobs they hold and the stability of this country.
We do not accept that the choice is between the government's deal and 'no deal'. We will work across Parliament to stop a 'no deal' outcome. Labour has set out our alternative plan for a sensible Brexit that would work for all of our nations and regions, bring Parliament and the country together, support jobs and our economy and guarantee rights, standards and protections.
If Parliament votes down this shambolic Tory deal — as seems likely — this will represent a loss of confidence in the government. In those circumstances the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power and deliver the Labour government this country desperately needs.
If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.
We are ready to lead, ready to deliver a sensible deal that works for all our regions and nations and ready to build a Britain that works for the many, not the few.
Jeremy Corbyn Leader of the Labour Party
What options are on the table Jeremy - and which one are you pursuing???
I attended a lecture last month by one of the accounting professions whereby the neutral opinion offered by one of the expert speakers was that (after explaining the pros and cons of the different bespoke deals already in place for certain countries (Canada, Swiss etc)), that a Norway style deal was the most likely option at that stage with a transition period thereafter that could effectively run for x number of years.
People seem to be suggesting that there is no better deal possible than what May has proposed. Does that mean the Norway style option was not viable..... or are there possible alternatives out there still??
To be honest what is being proposed in the deal for the next two years isn't a million miles away from the Norway option.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
Wages are already going up due to the fall in immigration. Do any of you Remainers really believe that is a bad thing? Cheap labour discourages innovation and maintains low productivity. Anybody believe that is a good thing?
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
If this sort of SPECIFIC information was available during the referendum campaign, I don't recall the likes of Cameron and Osborne strongly and continually emphasising it.
Yes of course they said we would be worse off and they said we would be immediately worse off after the votes were cast and result known, but I'm not aware of them strongly emphasising these specific figures.
The Remain campaign was about as effective as a Katrien Powerpoint presentation.
But many, many people didn't vote on economics or at least not macro- economics like this.
Some voted for no immigration/control of borders.
Some for "taking back control"/democracy
Some supposedly voted against the elites (like Johnson, JRM and Farage aren't all the epitome of elite).
A few for being able to state aid and nationalise with a socialist state.
You could show tabke to some leavers now and they will either reject it as more project fear or say they freedom and control are more important.
How many we don't know but polls suggest not enough to win another referendum.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
What? Are we supposed to listen to him now? Only a couple of months ago he was a thick, stupid (the thickest minister ever according to those who think they know) baby-eating Tory moron. I'm so glad he changed so quickly.
Analysis given to Davis and yet the baby eating Tory moron prefers options 1 and 2.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
What? Are we supposed to listen to him now? Only a couple of months ago he was a thick, stupid (the thickest minister ever according to those who think they know) baby-eating Tory moron. I'm so glad he changed so quickly.
It was probably when he saw these figures that he did a runner😉
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
What? Are we supposed to listen to him now? Only a couple of months ago he was a thick, stupid (the thickest minister ever according to those who think they know) baby-eating Tory moron. I'm so glad he changed so quickly.
Are you sticking up for him or are you saying he's thick and all that?
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
What? Are we supposed to listen to him now? Only a couple of months ago he was a thick, stupid (the thickest minister ever according to those who think they know) baby-eating Tory moron. I'm so glad he changed so quickly.
Are you sticking up for him or are you saying he's thick and all that?
Sorry, edited to make it clearer. I'm ignoring him, not believing either swing.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
those figures may well be accurate but they are quite old now. also over what duration are they calculated, is this for the first year after the final decision of which option? What happens in year 2/3/4? this kind of stat is virtually useless without more information. it is simply the weaponising of stats without context to back up a point of view. Both sides are guilty of it.
We need to stop talking about a second referendum - if we have one it will be the third referendum. One of the positive features of democracy is that it allows people to change their minds.
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
Wages are already going up due to the fall in immigration. Do any of you Remainers really believe that is a bad thing? Cheap labour discourages innovation and maintains low productivity. Anybody believe that is a good thing?
Has there actually been a fall in immigration? I thought there was just a swing towards non EU immigration. Higher wages indicate a shortage of labour which will result in more immigration whether we are in the EU or not!
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
I just wonder if May might seek to call a referendum with the only choice being between he plan and a no deal Brexit - it isn't as though Corbyn and McDonnell are really pushing any alternative or the Tories really give a damn about what happens to the country based on the last two years of farce - which May's agreement really just extends for another 2 years while the alternative from the nutters is to crash out and have a recession. All makes the current leadership issues at Charlton look like a minor irritance.
From the Huff post and confirmed by a bloke I work with who is a Labour party member.
Labour’s stance has hardened significantly in the past few days, with Jeremy Corbyn writing to all members yesterday to explicitly say “we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote”.
Sorry, I don't understand what Labour are saying. What do they mean by supporting all options ? It's surely not possible to support all options?
They think there should be a general election, but if there can’t be a general election then they support a referendum.
The problem I have is - when will they accept that there won’t be a GE and come out in favour of a referendum?
There isn’t going to be a GE, you’d need a significant number of Tory MPs to vote for that and I doubt many of them would put their seat on the line in the current circumstances
So their position has remained the same and they do not support all options. Non story surely ? If they support all options they would support May's plan, support a hard Brexit and support Remain. Complete fuckwittery and Labour are little better that the Tories, in as much as both parties put their parties first and the country second.
I'm 100% we should now Remain, because I trust no politician be it Blue, Red or European to ensure we get a "good" deal, even if they claim we will.
What is a "good deal" though? Specifically, can you - or anyone - articulate a deal that isn't worse, economically, than staying in?
The economic benefits of Brexit by a Remainer economist.
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
I'd say there are two key words of equal value: "will" and "could". So, even Brexiteers are conceding that Brexit will damage our economy. They a pitting the vague hope of a possibility against the agreed certainty of damage. That is not prudent decision making, it is the desperate last gasp gamble of the ideologically brainwashed. It is as frightening as it is pathetic. I am absolutely outraged that any politician would gamble on my country's future like that. That this has got so close to being a consideration, let alone a likelihood, is an absolute disgrace. This isn't the 3.45 at Lingfield, stop taking wild punts with our livelihoods.
Comments
Brexit will take a heavy toll, but could herald an economic rebirth
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-will-take-a-heavy-toll-but-could-herald-an-economic-rebirth-nd3sl8ksq
If that happens there would have to be a hard border on the island of Ireland. Technology, cameras, electronic dockets, trusted trader status...none of that will ever work in practice. The two reasons being if there is a border there needs to be an infrastructure to deal with transgressions, and the physical nature of the border, the Geography, means it can't be wholly controlled.
Canada, Switzerland, Norway, Mays deal, no deal...none of them will ultimately work without breaking the GFA.
Brexiters have the dilemma which says what they want has to override the GFA, if the UK breaks that treaty for the sake of brexit trouble will follow.
I’m in a job where I receive regular interest/inflation forecasts from the experts in that field, many of which prove to be a bag of shite.
Why? Because any of these projections are full of limitations and unknowns, obviously. And this scenario is the extreme of that. It’s guess work, educated guess work maybe but still guess work.
Yes of course they said we would be worse off and they said we would be immediately worse off after the votes were cast and result known, but I'm not aware of them strongly emphasising these specific figures.
The Remain campaign was about as effective as a Katrien Powerpoint presentation.
Dear sm
The government is falling apart before our eyes. Their half-baked deal has unravelled, the Prime Minister has lost all authority and is clearly incapable of delivering a Brexit deal that commands even the support of her Cabinet - let alone Parliament and the people of our country.
Our Party Conference agreed that this deal would be judged against our six tests, and if it failed to meet them we would vote against it.
After two years of bungled negotiations, the government has produced a botched deal that breaches the Prime Minister's own red lines, does not meet our six tests and will leave the country in an indefinite halfway house without a real say.
As I said in Parliament earlier today, people around the country will be feeling anxious about the industries they work in, the jobs they hold and the stability of this country.
We do not accept that the choice is between the government's deal and 'no deal'. We will work across Parliament to stop a 'no deal' outcome. Labour has set out our alternative plan for a sensible Brexit that would work for all of our nations and regions, bring Parliament and the country together, support jobs and our economy and guarantee rights, standards and protections.
If Parliament votes down this shambolic Tory deal — as seems likely — this will represent a loss of confidence in the government. In those circumstances the best outcome for the country is an immediate General Election that can sweep the Tories from power and deliver the Labour government this country desperately needs.
If we cannot get a General Election, in line with our conference policy, we will support all options remaining on the table, including campaigning for a public vote.
We are ready to lead, ready to deliver a sensible deal that works for all our regions and nations and ready to build a Britain that works for the many, not the few.
Jeremy Corbyn
Leader of the Labour Party
What options are on the table Jeremy - and which one are you pursuing???
Cheap labour discourages innovation and maintains low productivity. Anybody believe that is a good thing?
Some voted for no immigration/control of borders.
Some for "taking back control"/democracy
Some supposedly voted against the elites (like Johnson, JRM and Farage aren't all the epitome of elite).
A few for being able to state aid and nationalise with a socialist state.
You could show tabke to some leavers now and they will either reject it as more project fear or say they freedom and control are more important.
How many we don't know but polls suggest not enough to win another referendum.
<img src="" />What?Are we supposed to listen to him now?
Only a couple of months ago he was a thick, stupid (the thickest minister ever, according to those on here who think they know) Tory moron.
I'm so glad he changed so quickly, but is it ok to just ignore him now?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gross_fixed_investment_as_percentage_of_GDP
Higher wages indicate a shortage of labour which will result in more immigration whether we are in the EU or not!