So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
As a boy, for a time, my hero was Evel Knievel. That is until I worked out there were people who did what he did much better without crashing all of the time. But one story I recall is his grand canyon jump in a rocket powered bike (it was more a rocket than a bike). Evel knew before the jump that he couldn't make it - the calculations were all wrong - but rather than admit it, he went ahead, opened the chute and hoped he didn't die. He was badly injured, but that was par for the course with him. For some reason I think of this when I think of Brexit.
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
Will of the people? My arse! 54% Remain 46% Leave. Poll of 20,000 people.
Yes I saw that Channel 4 programme.
The problem with it's poll that no one mentioned is that virtually all the polls and most of the 'pundits' also predicted a 'Remain' win in the run up to the original June 23rd 2016 vote - and look what happened.
The screenshot below shows the polls in the week leading up to June 23rd:
If you remember rightly, the polls shows the Remain win right before the vote count started.
hi @DiscoCAFC I commented in detail on poll accuracy yesterday, based on what I have learnt from my wife who is a market research specialist. The pollsters believe they have learnt lessons both here and in the USA. I wrote that a big test of those learnings now would be how accurate they are for the mid- terms USA. Turns out that they were very accurate.
Did they also call the Senate vote correctly?
Yes. I went to bed having heard the poll-based prediction that the Democrats would regain Congress but that Trump would keep hold of the Senate. and that is what I woke up to. I am sure they got it wrong in places, but nationally they got it right, unlike in 2016.
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
I wasn't the first, but yes I did post something along those lines. I'm still convinced it's the least bad way of extracating the Government from its self-inflicted impasse.
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
so not only are we to have a 2nd vote we are also going down the STV route, which is completly against our usual voting system & alien to 3/4 (or is that 1/2 plus a 1/4 ) of the population.
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
so not only are we to have a 2nd vote we are also going down the STV route, which is completly against our usual voting system & alien to 3/4 (or is that 1/2 plus a 1/4 ) of the population.
crack on guys !
Do you have a better method of instructing the Government as to which of the three options they should proceed with? Or are you monumentally relaxed at the prospect of leaving everything up to the competence of the present Cabinet?
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
so not only are we to have a 2nd vote we are also going down the STV route, which is completly against our usual voting system & alien to 3/4 (or is that 1/2 plus a 1/4 ) of the population.
crack on guys !
Well technically it's Supplementary Vote, which has been used for the various mayoral and police and crime commissioner elections in recent years, so it's hardly that alien a concept in much of the country. The Scots and the Northern Irish shouldn't have trouble getting their heads around it, given it's a truncated version of STV, so it's only the Welsh who may not have come across it before as they use Additional Member voting for the assembly iirc.
And seriously is it really so hard to work out what to do with a ballot paper that looks something like this:
---------------------------------------------------
| Mark an X below | Mark an X below |
| against your 1st choice | against your 2nd choice |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| LEAVE with agreed deal | | |
|--------------------------|-------------------------|-------------------------|
| LEAVE with no deal | | |
|--------------------------|-------------------------|-------------------------|
| REMAIN in the EU | | |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Knowing my luck the ASCII art will look horrible on people's phones, but I can't be arsed to faff about with paint at this time of night)
I know many on here want a second vote, but does anyone, given the stance at the top of both main political parties, think we will actually get one? At any point in say, the next 6 months to 3 years? ie before Brexit occurs.
I know many on here want a second vote, but does anyone, given the stance at the top of both main political parties, think we will actually get one? At any point in say, the next 6 months to 3 years? ie before Brexit occurs.
No. I've no idea what will happen, but can't see a second vote happening
I know many on here want a second vote, but does anyone, given the stance at the top of both main political parties, think we will actually get one? At any point in say, the next 6 months to 3 years? ie before Brexit occurs.
No. I've no idea what will happen, but can't see a second vote happening
What would the process for a second vote be? Would one MP need to be brave enough to propose it to Parliament and then they vote on it?
I still think the most likely outcome is that the UK leaves with no deal and then ends up applying to rejoin in around eight to ten years. Then the whole episode is looked back on as a very strange and slightly embarrassing part of British history, with the key players viewed as among the most incompetent leaders (and opposition) ever.
I still think the most likely outcome is that the UK leaves with no deal and then ends up applying to rejoin in around eight to ten years. Then the whole episode is looked back on as a very strange and slightly embarrassing part of British history, with the key players viewed as among the most incompetent leaders (and opposition) ever.
I agree with the outcome but think the timescale will be much longer. 8-10 years won't be long enough for the those behind Brexit and their supporters in the press to distance themselves from the mess they will have created. I just can't see the Daily Mail and this generation of its readers accepting a situation where they will have to recognise they called it wrong in 2016 and as result are willing to suck it up and apply to rejoin which will probably mean moving towards the euro over the pound.
It's the same reason I'd have no confidence in Remain winning a second referendum. Maybe the demographics would have an affect I suppose.
Speaking of relatives, it's come to something when the brother of Boris -effing - Johnson shows more integrity, leadership and coherence than the Leader of the Opposition.
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
so not only are we to have a 2nd vote we are also going down the STV route, which is completly against our usual voting system & alien to 3/4 (or is that 1/2 plus a 1/4 ) of the population.
crack on guys !
Except the voting system in Mayoral and council elections, and for MEP's which are different from FPTP.
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
so not only are we to have a 2nd vote we are also going down the STV route, which is completly against our usual voting system & alien to 3/4 (or is that 1/2 plus a 1/4 ) of the population.
crack on guys !
Except the voting system in Mayoral and council elections, and for MEP's which are different from FPTP.
Poor golfie, he really is CL’s very own Dominic Rabb 😊
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
so not only are we to have a 2nd vote we are also going down the STV route, which is completly against our usual voting system & alien to 3/4 (or is that 1/2 plus a 1/4 ) of the population.
crack on guys !
Except the voting system in Mayoral and council elections, and for MEP's which are different from FPTP.
Poor golfie, he really is CL’s very own Dominic Rabb 😊
I would guess that Golfie even has a higher IQ than Rabb, and is more honest and straightforward. I think Golfie is wrong but driven by emotion, Rabb is wrong because he is a snide Tory duplicitous self serving moron. Keep a careful eye on Rabb he is on the way up.
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
so not only are we to have a 2nd vote we are also going down the STV route, which is completly against our usual voting system & alien to 3/4 (or is that 1/2 plus a 1/4 ) of the population.
crack on guys !
Except the voting system in Mayoral and council elections, and for MEP's which are different from FPTP.
Poor golfie, he really is CL’s very own Dominic Rabb 😊
I would guess that Golfie even has a higher IQ than Rabb, and is more honest and straightforward. I think Golfie is wrong but driven by emotion, Rabb is wrong because he is a snide Tory duplicitous self serving moron. Keep a careful eye on Rabb he is on the way up.
Well I certainly agree about Rabb. Always has been a self serving s..t. Ironic that his constuency voted clearly to Remain, but it seems their MP knows better for personal political gain. Not the only one obviously but up there with the best.
So I believe Jo Johnson is saying what I said about a month ago. We need another public vote with 3 options. 1 Choose the deal we are offered. 2 No deal & we go it alone. 3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain. I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative. Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain. As you were. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
What if you end up with 34% for one option and 33% for the other two?
Do what @Chizz (I think it was) suggested and use a transferable vote option. People indicate their 1st and 2nd choices, and the votes with the least popular option as 1st choice get redistributed to the 2nd choice on each ballot paper.
so not only are we to have a 2nd vote we are also going down the STV route, which is completly against our usual voting system & alien to 3/4 (or is that 1/2 plus a 1/4 ) of the population.
crack on guys !
Except the voting system in Mayoral and council elections, and for MEP's which are different from FPTP.
Poor golfie, he really is CL’s very own Dominic Rabb 😊
I would guess that Golfie even has a higher IQ than Rabb, and is more honest and straightforward. I think Golfie is wrong but driven by emotion, Rabb is wrong because he is a snide Tory duplicitous self serving moron. Keep a careful eye on Rabb he is on the way up.
Your description of Rabb is both accurate and the basis of the perfect profile for a Tory leader.
Now that we have arrived close to a BINO deal, many are asking the question: "why bother leaving?" The paradox is that the "no deal" agenda could only be defeated by BINO and not remain. So once a deal is agreed with the EU, it is then politically possible to consider whether that's sub optimal compared to Remain.
From this perspective we might ask why May couldn't move faster on cutting a deal but that's to ignore the fact that her opponents then would have had more time to take her out. Perhaps we have arrived at the right place at the right time, perhaps a few weeks late? But either way, Parliament now has a clear choice, especially now that we have Jo Johnson's resignation and the accompnying announcement. For we can expect him and others to table an amendment to a Brexit deal bill calling for a "people's vote" on the deal. And for that vote to have three options as others have suggested. There is certainly cross party support for this and surely a vote can be organised within three months?
This then becomes an opportunity for the opposition which is clearly a remain party to make a choice. It's either support May's proposed deal or give the final say to the electorate via support for a people's vote amendment. And they have always anticipated that this time would come. Naturally they prefer to bring the government down but is that possible?
No ideas on the arithmetic in Parliament but the commentators and current affairs programmes will surely have a guide soon enough. Those who maintain that Corbyn should have led the fight against the referendum are ignoring the subtleties of the positioning and the obvious conclusions to be drawn from the 2017 election result. Labour have chosen to give May all the space she needed to come up with a deal and allowed for various ministers to resign as they find that they cannot support BINO or vassel state option. Labour have been clear on the Customs Union but ambiguous on the rest - they have simply waited for May and her Cabinet to reach this point where we can all see an outline deal.
Comments
We need another public vote with 3 options.
1 Choose the deal we are offered.
2 No deal & we go it alone.
3 Remain.
Personally, I don't think it's too late to take this as a lesson learnt & vote Remain.
I do not trust any of our politicians of any colour to now make a success of an alternative.
Under the circumstances the only sensible option is to Remain.
As you were.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46155403
crack on guys !
And seriously is it really so hard to work out what to do with a ballot paper that looks something like this:
--------------------------------------------------- | Mark an X below | Mark an X below | | against your 1st choice | against your 2nd choice | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | LEAVE with agreed deal | | | |--------------------------|-------------------------|-------------------------| | LEAVE with no deal | | | |--------------------------|-------------------------|-------------------------| | REMAIN in the EU | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------(Knowing my luck the ASCII art will look horrible on people's phones, but I can't be arsed to faff about with paint at this time of night)It's the same reason I'd have no confidence in Remain winning a second referendum. Maybe the demographics would have an affect I suppose.
Speaking of relatives, it's come to something when the brother of Boris -effing - Johnson shows more integrity, leadership and coherence than the Leader of the Opposition.
Barking Britain.
Keep a careful eye on Rabb he is on the way up.
From this perspective we might ask why May couldn't move faster on cutting a deal but that's to ignore the fact that her opponents then would have had more time to take her out. Perhaps we have arrived at the right place at the right time, perhaps a few weeks late? But either way, Parliament now has a clear choice, especially now that we have Jo Johnson's resignation and the accompnying announcement. For we can expect him and others to table an amendment to a Brexit deal bill calling for a "people's vote" on the deal. And for that vote to have three options as others have suggested. There is certainly cross party support for this and surely a vote can be organised within three months?
This then becomes an opportunity for the opposition which is clearly a remain party to make a choice. It's either support May's proposed deal or give the final say to the electorate via support for a people's vote amendment. And they have always anticipated that this time would come. Naturally they prefer to bring the government down but is that possible?
No ideas on the arithmetic in Parliament but the commentators and current affairs programmes will surely have a guide soon enough. Those who maintain that Corbyn should have led the fight against the referendum are ignoring the subtleties of the positioning and the obvious conclusions to be drawn from the 2017 election result. Labour have chosen to give May all the space she needed to come up with a deal and allowed for various ministers to resign as they find that they cannot support BINO or vassel state option. Labour have been clear on the Customs Union but ambiguous on the rest - they have simply waited for May and her Cabinet to reach this point where we can all see an outline deal.