I accept that the statistics overwhelming tell us that that’s true, but why do you think it is that the older you are the less you see immigration as a good thing?
I accept that the statistics overwhelming tell us that that’s true, but why do you think it is that the older you are the less you see immigration as a good thing?
As you get older it becomes more and more difficult to remember, learn and cope with new things.
So any "change" becomes the enemy whereas for young people change represents an opportunity.
Don't really think there's more to it than that.
Definitely agree with this, plus the readership of the Mail and Express is a much older demographic and they get frightened witless about the endless stories of immigration published within these papers.
I accept that the statistics overwhelming tell us that that’s true, but why do you think it is that the older you are the less you see immigration as a good thing?
It's hard to have an objective argument about an opinion poll without knowing how questions are worded? If you word the questions differently you can easily get a different set of results.
I'm sure people get more conservative as they get older and it also depends on your exposure to other cultures and where you live in the country? Somebody growing up in the 60s and 70s would have had a very different set of experience in their formative years from youngsters growing up now.
Making too many generalisations about age can be a bit dangerous - another way of dividing people.
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
Golfie, you are coming across as either a bit dim, or trying to dig your way out of a hole. I don't think you are dim.
Brexiteers were crying foul over the government "propaganda leaflet", and frothing at £XX millions of taxpayers hard earned money being spent on "promoting" the EU.
As Bournemouth wrote (my bold): "...The government believes the UK should remain in the EU...This leaflet sets out the facts, and explains why the government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
That is pretty plain, isn't it? How much more plain do you want it to be?
Half joking or not, you are wrong. Your decision was wrong and continuing to defend it (or deflecting the blame for that decision onto someone else) is wrong.
Spouting "you voted leave....you deal with it", is absolutely fair enough. If it makes you uncomfortable, then look at the reasons why, you will find they are very close to home. At least you are beginning to realise the error of your ways, and I admire you for that, better than those that are too stubborn (or genuinely stupid) to see the writing on the wall.
This was the leaflet that Leavers made such a fuss over of course, because it was sent to every household in the UK. This was in addition to the numerous times ministers, etc. came out and made the UK government's formal position crystal clear.
On no fewer than 6 occasions in the leaflet does it state, "The government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
It was attacked in all the usual places as part of Project Fear of course. It still is even now presented, somewhat ironically, by Leavers as the government not playing fair because it was taxpayer funded. Of course we're seeing at least some of those predications turn into reality.
Even if one takes the leaflet as an isolated statement (which it wasn't) to suggest that the government did not tell people that it was in the UK's best long term interests to vote Remain is clearly untrue. Leavers have chosen to ignore that advice and we have rolled the dice instead.
I don't understand this growing reluctance to "own" the decision with some Leavers. I think they'll be a lot less than 52% of voters willing to stand up and admit to being Leavers in 5 years time.
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
Golfie, you are coming across as either a bit dim, or trying to dig your way out of a hole. I don't think you are dim.
Brexiteers were crying foul over the government "propaganda leaflet", and frothing at £XX millions of taxpayers hard earned money being spent on "promoting" the EU.
As Bournemouth wrote (my bold): "...The government believes the UK should remain in the EU...This leaflet sets out the facts, and explains why the government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
That is pretty plain, isn't it? How much more plain do you want it to be?
Half joking or not, you are wrong. Your decision was wrong and continuing to defend it (or deflecting the blame for that decision onto someone else) is wrong.
Spouting "you voted leave....you deal with it", is absolutely fair enough. If it makes you uncomfortable, then look at the reasons why, you will find they are very close to home. At least you are beginning to realise the error of your ways, and I admire you for that, better than those that are too stubborn (or genuinely stupid) to see the writing on the wall.
This was the leaflet that Leavers made such a fuss over of course, because it was sent to every household in the UK. This was in addition to the numerous times ministers, etc. came out and made the UK government's formal position crystal clear.
On no fewer than 6 occasions in the leaflet does it state, "The government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
It was attacked in all the usual places as part of Project Fear of course. It still is even now presented, somewhat ironically, by Leavers as the government not playing fair because it was taxpayer funded. Of course we're seeing at least some of those predications turn into reality.
Even if one takes the leaflet as an isolated statement (which it wasn't) to suggest that the government did not tell people that it was in the UK's best long term interests to vote Remain is clearly untrue. Leavers have chosen to ignore that advice and we have rolled the dice instead.
I don't understand this growing reluctance to "own" the decision with some Leavers. I think they'll be a lot less than 52% of voters willing to stand up and admit to being Leavers in 5 years time.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
That's a false arguement and a false leap of logic.
You started our saying the members of the two groups ACTED in the same way ie voted leave or remain.
You then reached a false conclusion that that there are therefore two TYPES of people.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
Which clearly means no point in a second referendum as none of these two types could possibly cross the floor! And the third don't care types would of course still not care.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Don’t think Thatcher voted
If she was in charge of the Brexit negotiations today things would be interesting. She had bigger bollox than the entire Tory front bench of today.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
That's a false arguement and a false leap of logic.
You started our saying the members of the two groups ACTED in the same way ie voted leave or remain.
You then reached a false conclusion that that there are therefore two TYPES of people.
True - I voted remain but when I give my critical views of the EU, remainers will argue with me and leavers may agree. I don't like the direction of the EU, but believe leaving it will have dire economic consequences for the country. Some remainers think the EU can do no wrong! How am I the same as them? But we all voted remain and would do so again!
Likewise I have spoken to friends who have voted leave who have given all sorts of different reasons, including a hatred of Cameron.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Don’t think Thatcher voted
If she was in charge of the Brexit negotiations today things would be interesting. She had bigger bollox than the entire Tory front bench of today.
And no I never voted for her.
If she’d been in charge we wouldn’t of had the ridiculous vote in the first place.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Don’t think Thatcher voted
If she was in charge of the Brexit negotiations today things would be interesting. She had bigger bollox than the entire Tory front bench of today.
And no I never voted for her.
Me neither. But imagine Thatcher Merkel and Macron. Or Jean Claude and let's not forget Donald Trump. You would think Thatcher would have had more control of her party and cabinet but even she succumbed to untrustworthy colleagues.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
That's a false arguement and a false leap of logic.
You started our saying the members of the two groups ACTED in the same way ie voted leave or remain.
You then reached a false conclusion that that there are therefore two TYPES of people.
True - I voted remain but when I give my critical views of the EU, remainers will argue with me and leavers may agree. I don't like the direction of the EU, but believe leaving it will have dire economic consequences for the country. Some remainers think the EU can do no wrong! How am I the same as them? But we all voted remain and would do so again!
Likewise I have spoken to friends who have voted leave who have given all sorts of different reasons, including a hatred of Cameron.
You can't say there are two types.
There are two types though: Those that understand data and those that voted for Brexit.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
That's a false arguement and a false leap of logic.
You started our saying the members of the two groups ACTED in the same way ie voted leave or remain.
You then reached a false conclusion that that there are therefore two TYPES of people.
True - I voted remain but when I give my critical views of the EU, remainers will argue with me and leavers may agree. I don't like the direction of the EU, but believe leaving it will have dire economic consequences for the country. Some remainers think the EU can do no wrong! How am I the same as them? But we all voted remain and would do so again!
Likewise I have spoken to friends who have voted leave who have given all sorts of different reasons, including a hatred of Cameron.
You can't say there are two types.
There are two types though: Those that understand data and those that voted for Brexit.
I don't recall seeing a lot of data before 23 June 2016. In fact there was a dearth of good analysis presented on either side. But you are right I wouldn't of understood it and shouldn't have had the opportunity to vote.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
That's a false arguement and a false leap of logic.
You started our saying the members of the two groups ACTED in the same way ie voted leave or remain.
You then reached a false conclusion that that there are therefore two TYPES of people.
True - I voted remain but when I give my critical views of the EU, remainers will argue with me and leavers may agree. I don't like the direction of the EU, but believe leaving it will have dire economic consequences for the country. Some remainers think the EU can do no wrong! How am I the same as them? But we all voted remain and would do so again!
Likewise I have spoken to friends who have voted leave who have given all sorts of different reasons, including a hatred of Cameron.
You can't say there are two types.
There are two types though: Those that understand data and those that voted for Brexit.
I don't recall seeing a lot of data before 23 June 2016. In fact there was a dearth of good analysis presented on either side. But you are right I wouldn't of understood it and shouldn't have had the opportunity to vote.
There was plenty of it about, you can find links to lots in the footnotes of the government's own leaflet. But of course no-one was ever going to look at this and that's precisely the problem with referenda.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
That's a false arguement and a false leap of logic.
You started our saying the members of the two groups ACTED in the same way ie voted leave or remain.
You then reached a false conclusion that that there are therefore two TYPES of people.
Yep. More precision needed. I should have extended it to the types who voted leave and the types who voted remain. The breadth of differences between people was narrowed down to a binary choice. A choice between the known and the unknown and voters were obliged to choose between those two options.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
Which clearly means no point in a second referendum as none of these two types could possibly cross the floor! And the third don't care types would of course still not care.
I agree that there is nothing to be gained in a second vote. The winners have got to own it and make it happen. Whatever it is. I don't think we know yet.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
Which clearly means no point in a second referendum as none of these two types could possibly cross the floor! And the third don't care types would of course still not care.
I agree that there is nothing to be gained in a second vote. The winners have got to own it and make it happen. Whatever it is. I don't think we know yet.
The country is divided. Has been for years. Still is within both major parties. We have a remainer pm who is trying to achieve leave. And a labour leader who is a leaver by historic voting but whose current position is less than clear.
52% voted leave on 23 June 2016. 52% would now appear to want to remain according to opinion polls. Those polls suggest a huge variance between young and old. Another type of divide.
The sensible thing would be for both the British govt and the EU to recognise those two 52% elements and stop grandstanding and develop a workable compromise that is the interest of a large part of the people in the uk and the EU. To me that should be based on leaving the eu but include free trade, a modification to freedom of movement rules and maybe some form of associate membership fee. We could never have our cake and eat it. Nor is it sensible to have a no deal. I hope that is the outcome.
Did I say I made my decision based on their thoughts!!
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
Everybody in the remain group who voted remain acted in exactly the same way, everybody in the leave camp who voted leave acted in exactly the same way. In that respect in terms of those who voted there are indeed only two types of people in Britain. There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost. There are two types of people, and one type won.
Which clearly means no point in a second referendum as none of these two types could possibly cross the floor! And the third don't care types would of course still not care.
I agree that there is nothing to be gained in a second vote. The winners have got to own it and make it happen. Whatever it is. I don't think we know yet.
The country is divided. Has been for years. Still is within both major parties. We have a remainer pm who is trying to achieve leave. And a labour leader who is a leaver by historic voting but whose current position is less than clear.
52% voted leave on 23 June 2016. 52% would now appear to want to remain according to opinion polls. Those polls suggest a huge variance between young and old. Another type of divide.
The sensible thing would be for both the British govt and the EU to recognise those two 52% elements and stop grandstanding and develop a workable compromise that is the interest of a large part of the people in the uk and the EU. To me that should be based on leaving the eu but include free trade, a modification to freedom of movement rules and maybe some form of associate membership fee. We could never have our cake and eat it. Nor is it sensible to have a no deal. I hope that is the outcome.
Good post and refreshing to have a sensible and thoughtful contribution from the Leave side that doesn't resort to blaming the EU for everything. The UK will need to accept it is the party that is leaving the EU though and it is not reasonable for the EU to spend huge amounts of time trying to work out what it is the UK want.
The start of the division in my opinion, was when the political classes decided it wasn't racist to be racist. You don't have to vote UKIP anymore, you can vote for us! I'm not racist but there are too many foreigners here nicking our jobs, I'm not racist but all Muslims are terrorists etc... etc... etc...
Comments
I'm sure people get more conservative as they get older and it also depends on your exposure to other cultures and where you live in the country? Somebody growing up in the 60s and 70s would have had a very different set of experience in their formative years from youngsters growing up now.
Making too many generalisations about age can be a bit dangerous - another way of dividing people.
On no fewer than 6 occasions in the leaflet does it state, "The government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
It was attacked in all the usual places as part of Project Fear of course. It still is even now presented, somewhat ironically, by Leavers as the government not playing fair because it was taxpayer funded. Of course we're seeing at least some of those predications turn into reality.
Even if one takes the leaflet as an isolated statement (which it wasn't) to suggest that the government did not tell people that it was in the UK's best long term interests to vote Remain is clearly untrue. Leavers have chosen to ignore that advice and we have rolled the dice instead.
I don't understand this growing reluctance to "own" the decision with some Leavers. I think they'll be a lot less than 52% of voters willing to stand up and admit to being Leavers in 5 years time.
Can't stand Farage and Bojo.
But equally I am glad I didnt vote the same as Thatcher Major Blair Brown and Cameron would have done.
I just find it interesting that I don't find myself in the Thatcher Blair camp and that Remainers do.
Fully recognising of course there are only two types of people in Britain Remainers and Brexiteers and everybody in each group is exactly the same. Unless of course you are a don't know don't care.
There may be a million different reasons, with a million different priorities but the one type of British voter, leavers, won against the other type of British voter remainers who lost.
There are two types of people, and one type won.
You started our saying the members of the two groups ACTED in the same way ie voted leave or remain.
You then reached a false conclusion that that there are therefore two TYPES of people.
She had bigger bollox than the entire Tory front bench of today.
And no I never voted for her.
Likewise I have spoken to friends who have voted leave who have given all sorts of different reasons, including a hatred of Cameron.
You can't say there are two types.
And I didn’t vote for her either.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk#fn:23
The winners have got to own it and make it happen.
Whatever it is.
I don't think we know yet.
52% voted leave on 23 June 2016.
52% would now appear to want to remain according to opinion polls.
Those polls suggest a huge variance between young and old. Another type of divide.
The sensible thing would be for both the British govt and the EU to recognise those two 52% elements and stop grandstanding and develop a workable compromise that is the interest of a large part of the people in the uk and the EU. To me that should be based on leaving the eu but include free trade, a modification to freedom of movement rules and maybe some form of associate membership fee. We could never have our cake and eat it. Nor is it sensible to have a no deal. I hope that is the outcome.