Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
Yet another rich ‘patriotic’ Brexiteer leaving his beloved homeland to avoid paying his taxes!
Reading that article, he seems like a real douche. Even looks like one in the picture!
"Ratcliffe was ranked the UK’s richest person in May after he contacted the editor of the Sunday Times rich list to complain that his wealth had been drastically underestimated."
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
Yet another rich ‘patriotic’ Brexiteer leaving his beloved homeland to avoid paying his taxes!
Reading that article, he seems like a real douche. Even looks like one in the picture!
"Ratcliffe was ranked the UK’s richest person in May after he contacted the editor of the Sunday Times rich list to complain that his wealth had been drastically underestimated."
This bit for me said it all. What a tosser.
Mind you, if it turns out he's a football fan, and wants to invest in an opportunity in London...
Be interesting to see how low Sterling will go if we don't make a decent Brexit deal. Parity with the Euro seems to be a possibility?
Anyway due to go abroad later this year has a difficult decision over when to change currency?
And goodness knows where fuel prices will end up with the combination of a weakening currency and Trumpie doing his Bertie big bollox with Iran!
I know...blame brexiters.
Do you understand anything?
No do you....
You seem unable to grasp why Sterling is weak and the connection to the Brexit process?
I have an inside line should i choose, but never use it as my wife works for barclays bank. And no she isn't a small fry there... She is amazed how knowledgeable you are though.
Be interesting to see how low Sterling will go if we don't make a decent Brexit deal. Parity with the Euro seems to be a possibility?
Anyway due to go abroad later this year has a difficult decision over when to change currency?
And goodness knows where fuel prices will end up with the combination of a weakening currency and Trumpie doing his Bertie big bollox with Iran!
I know...blame brexiters.
Do you understand anything?
No do you....
You seem unable to grasp why Sterling is weak and the connection to the Brexit process?
I have an inside line should i choose, but never use it as my wife works for barclays bank. And no she isn't a small fry there... She is amazed how knowledgeable you are though.
So you don't think there is any connection between the weakness of the pound and the Brexit process? What would your explanation be?
Be interesting to see how low Sterling will go if we don't make a decent Brexit deal. Parity with the Euro seems to be a possibility?
Anyway due to go abroad later this year has a difficult decision over when to change currency?
And goodness knows where fuel prices will end up with the combination of a weakening currency and Trumpie doing his Bertie big bollox with Iran!
I know...blame brexiters.
Do you understand anything?
No do you....
You seem unable to grasp why Sterling is weak and the connection to the Brexit process?
I have an inside line should i choose, but never use it as my wife works for barclays bank. And no she isn't a small fry there... She is amazed how knowledgeable you are though.
So you don't think there is any connection between the weakness of the pound and the Brexit process? What would your explanation be?
Goes up and down like a yo yo as always and please get up to speed, better fools than you have tried this card before, this discussion has been going on for years when they run out of anything else to say.
You blinkered lot look at the last two years... We were going to have no veg in july 2016....and beyond... Can you explain why we still have it and in abundance, ss all the labour was going to leave.
Be interesting to see how low Sterling will go if we don't make a decent Brexit deal. Parity with the Euro seems to be a possibility?
Anyway due to go abroad later this year has a difficult decision over when to change currency?
And goodness knows where fuel prices will end up with the combination of a weakening currency and Trumpie doing his Bertie big bollox with Iran!
I know...blame brexiters.
Do you understand anything?
No do you....
You seem unable to grasp why Sterling is weak and the connection to the Brexit process?
I have an inside line should i choose, but never use it as my wife works for barclays bank. And no she isn't a small fry there... She is amazed how knowledgeable you are though.
So you don't think there is any connection between the weakness of the pound and the Brexit process? What would your explanation be?
Goes up and down like a yo yo as always and please get up to speed, better fools than you have tried this card before, this discussion has been going on for years when they run out of anything else to say.
You blinkered lot look at the last two years... We were going to have no veg in july 2016....and beyond... Can you explain why we still have it and in abundance, ss all the labour was going to leave.
Be interesting to see how low Sterling will go if we don't make a decent Brexit deal. Parity with the Euro seems to be a possibility?
Anyway due to go abroad later this year has a difficult decision over when to change currency?
And goodness knows where fuel prices will end up with the combination of a weakening currency and Trumpie doing his Bertie big bollox with Iran!
I know...blame brexiters.
Do you understand anything?
No do you....
You seem unable to grasp why Sterling is weak and the connection to the Brexit process?
I have an inside line should i choose, but never use it as my wife works for barclays bank. And no she isn't a small fry there... She is amazed how knowledgeable you are though.
So you don't think there is any connection between the weakness of the pound and the Brexit process? What would your explanation be?
Goes up and down like a yo yo as always and please get up to speed, better fools than you have tried this card before, this discussion has been going on for years when they run out of anything else to say.
You blinkered lot look at the last two years... We were going to have no veg in july 2016....and beyond... Can you explain why we still have it and in abundance, ss all the labour was going to leave.
I thought you might have given a sensible answer but instead you've started talking about vegetables? I can't follow your train of thought - possibly because I'm blinkered?
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
That's not exactly what they said but the government position was clearly that it was in the country's best interests to vote Remain.
"...The government believes the UK should remain in the EU...This leaflet sets out the facts, and explains why the government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
I reckon the reason Theresa May plainly has no idea what she's doing was because she voted remain. The people who voted leave are plainly the ones who are supposed to know what to do, not Theresa May. Word has it that those who voted leave knew what they were voting for, that suggests they are not the kind of people to blame anybody else, but are prepared to own it.
Be interesting to see how low Sterling will go if we don't make a decent Brexit deal. Parity with the Euro seems to be a possibility?
Anyway due to go abroad later this year has a difficult decision over when to change currency?
And goodness knows where fuel prices will end up with the combination of a weakening currency and Trumpie doing his Bertie big bollox with Iran!
I know...blame brexiters.
Do you understand anything?
No do you....
You seem unable to grasp why Sterling is weak and the connection to the Brexit process?
I have an inside line should i choose, but never use it as my wife works for barclays bank. And no she isn't a small fry there... She is amazed how knowledgeable you are though.
So you don't think there is any connection between the weakness of the pound and the Brexit process? What would your explanation be?
Goes up and down like a yo yo as always and please get up to speed, better fools than you have tried this card before, this discussion has been going on for years when they run out of anything else to say.
You blinkered lot look at the last two years... We were going to have no veg in july 2016....and beyond... Can you explain why we still have it and in abundance, ss all the labour was going to leave.
Ask your wife what Stirling was trading at the day before the Brexit vote. I purchased at 1.42 Euro's to the pound. Today it trades at 1.10 Euro's to the pound. Its all down to the referendum result. If we leave without a trade deal the pound will collapse even further.
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
I reckon the reason Theresa May plainly has no idea what she's doing was because she voted remain. The people who voted leave are plainly the ones who are supposed to know what to do, not Theresa May. Word has it that those who voted leave knew what they were voting for, that suggests they are not the kind of people to blame anybody else, but are prepared to own it.
oh for gods sake give it a rest. Every time.....all you spout is "you voted leave....you deal with it".
My post stated that (partly joking of course) it seems like The Government (you know, the ones in power & who should know what they are doing) opened a drawer on the 24th June that was marked "leave" and looked to see what needed to happen. It doesn't matter who the fuck open said drawer.....it appears that the incumbent PM hadn't a clue. If, as you summise, the Government were so clever in knowing that to leave would be such a shitfest, then why did TM, as a remainer and therefore such a sage in these matters, have no idea.
TM put leavers in charge to negotiate the deal. Does anyone believe Davis had his paperwork in his briefcase? He made proposals, mostly pie in the sky and achieved nothing in 18 months.
I accept that the statistics overwhelming tell us that that’s true, but why do you think it is that the older you are the less you see immigration as a good thing?
Which will come as no surprise to those of us that have read foundations of geopolitics.
But that won’t bother Brexiteers, it genuinely won’t. It could turn out that Brexit was orchestrated by Roland Duchâtelet as an extreme reaction against CARD and it wouldn’t matter.
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
I reckon the reason Theresa May plainly has no idea what she's doing was because she voted remain. The people who voted leave are plainly the ones who are supposed to know what to do, not Theresa May. Word has it that those who voted leave knew what they were voting for, that suggests they are not the kind of people to blame anybody else, but are prepared to own it.
oh for gods sake give it a rest. Every time.....all you spout is "you voted leave....you deal with it".
My post stated that (partly joking of course) it seems like The Government (you know, the ones in power & who should know what they are doing) opened a drawer on the 24th June that was marked "leave" and looked to see what needed to happen. It doesn't matter who the fuck open said drawer.....it appears that the incumbent PM hadn't a clue. If, as you summise, the Government were so clever in knowing that to leave would be such a shitfest, then why did TM, as a remainer and therefore such a sage in these matters, have no idea.
Why give it a rest? The UK is leaving at the end of next March. You make a massive assumption that the government in power should know what they're doing. Why? The people who should know what they're doing or what is supposed to happen post brexit are not the government, but brexit voters. We are told the referendum result was the 'will of the people', not the 'will of the government', indeed when MPs actually come up with an approach they can be accused of betraying the will of the people. May is staggering along with this not because she has, or is supposed to have an idea, but because of her simple lust for power. If you voted brexit you could help out by writing to her with your workable, practical and affordable solution to the Irish border problem.
Brexiteers like Boris, JRM and others arrogantly assume that 100% of the 51.9% voted for a hard or no Brexit, despite them and many of the leavers promising we could leave and stay in Customs Union. Hence leaving without a soft option or stay would be against the will of the people.
This is the obvious point purposely missed by politicians going on about the will of the people. It is pretty safe to say that all those who voted remain would prefer a soft Brexit to a hard one, but it is also clear that a percentage of leavers would have wanted a soft Brexit. Polls since the vote bear this out, and the figures are too large to dismiss that the soft option is the will of the people.
Of course our democratic system is all about ignoring the will of the people so it is the instinct of politicians to totally ignore the preference of those who voted remain as if they don't exist. I'm sure most brexiters, beyond any doubt, wanted a hard brexit but that is only relevant if you are intent on ignoring the will of the people and ignoring everybody else.
The fact is the preference is clearly for a Norway type arrangement, and if you allow for margin of errors in polls, it is pretty clear the difference is too high for this not to be the case. I think this is yet another deceipt from hard leave politicians and this country will be divided for many years to come if a hard Brexit is forced on us!
The ballot paper merely asked voters if they wanted to 'Leave the European Union' - there was no discussion of how this was to be done and I don't remember any debate re hard or soft Brexit. I'm assuming voters thought it was a simple process and that all the planning was in place.
No need to read anymore. This in a nutshell for me.
I've said many times on here there was just a simple Yes / No on the ballot paper with no hard, soft or crispy around the edge options. I assumed (along with quite a few others I would imagine) that the Governnent had looked into what "to leave the EU" meant & that it was, in fact, possible. I didn't expect the day after for the PM to open a drawer & take out a folder marked " instructions on how to leave the EU".....for it seems its what Cameron left TM to do.
It will take a heck of a long time before I vote Tory again. Certainly wont be voting Labour.....and as the Lib Dems want us to stay its either UKIP or an Independent / monster raving loony party.
Funny enough, I distinctly recall remainers everywhere - in the pub, on the tele, here on CL, telling people who intended to vote leave, over and over and over, of some of the potential pitfalls (we didn't know all of them at the time). As mentioned elsewhere, HM government told you their advice was to vote remain. You ignore it, and then blame them?
If you chose to ignore lots of people's advice, how can anyone be to blame but you?
what ??? are you telling me The Government initiated a referendum & then told the electorate to vote No ??
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
Golfie, you are coming across as either a bit dim, or trying to dig your way out of a hole. I don't think you are dim.
Brexiteers were crying foul over the government "propaganda leaflet", and frothing at £XX millions of taxpayers hard earned money being spent on "promoting" the EU.
As Bournemouth wrote (my bold): "...The government believes the UK should remain in the EU...This leaflet sets out the facts, and explains why the government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
That is pretty plain, isn't it? How much more plain do you want it to be?
Half joking or not, you are wrong. Your decision was wrong and continuing to defend it (or deflecting the blame for that decision onto someone else) is wrong.
Spouting "you voted leave....you deal with it", is absolutely fair enough. If it makes you uncomfortable, then look at the reasons why, you will find they are very close to home. At least you are beginning to realise the error of your ways, and I admire you for that, better than those that are too stubborn (or genuinely stupid) to see the writing on the wall.
I accept that the statistics overwhelming tell us that that’s true, but why do you think it is that the older you are the less you see immigration as a good thing?
I accept that the statistics overwhelming tell us that that’s true, but why do you think it is that the older you are the less you see immigration as a good thing?
As you get older it becomes more and more difficult to remember, learn and cope with new things.
So any "change" becomes the enemy whereas for young people change represents an opportunity.
I accept that the statistics overwhelming tell us that that’s true, but why do you think it is that the older you are the less you see immigration as a good thing?
I accept that the statistics overwhelming tell us that that’s true, but why do you think it is that the older you are the less you see immigration as a good thing?
As you get older it becomes more and more difficult to remember, learn and cope with new things.
So any "change" becomes the enemy whereas for young people change represents an opportunity.
Don't really think there's more to it than that.
Rose tinted glasses seem to get brighter the older you get - nostalgia can be a negative thing.
Comments
That is either a re-writing of history or a weird version of a backwards dictatorship.
Again, if you read what I posted, I said it seems to me that The Government on June 24th, open a drawer marked "leave" & read what it meant & how to go about it (triggering Article 50 etc).
David Cameron might have read said document before that date - but obviously never told TM as she plainly has no idea what she is doing.
This bit for me said it all. What a tosser.
Way below all your expert knowledge
You blinkered lot look at the last two years... We were going to have no veg in july 2016....and beyond... Can you explain why we still have it and in abundance, ss all the labour was going to leave.
Hope your wife is well.
"...The government believes the UK should remain in the EU...This leaflet sets out the facts, and explains why the government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
https://gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk
The people who voted leave are plainly the ones who are supposed to know what to do, not Theresa May.
Word has it that those who voted leave knew what they were voting for, that suggests they are not the kind of people to blame anybody else, but are prepared to own it.
I purchased at 1.42 Euro's to the pound.
Today it trades at 1.10 Euro's to the pound.
Its all down to the referendum result.
If we leave without a trade deal the pound will collapse even further.
My post stated that (partly joking of course) it seems like The Government (you know, the ones in power & who should know what they are doing) opened a drawer on the 24th June that was marked "leave" and looked to see what needed to happen. It doesn't matter who the fuck open said drawer.....it appears that the incumbent PM hadn't a clue. If, as you summise, the Government were so clever in knowing that to leave would be such a shitfest, then why did TM, as a remainer and therefore such a sage in these matters, have no idea.
Basically the older we are, the more bothered by immigration we seem to be.
https://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45098550
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/09/revealed-detail-of-exclusive-russian-deal-offered-to-arron-banks-in-brexit-run-up
Which will come as no surprise to those of us that have read foundations of geopolitics.
You make a massive assumption that the government in power should know what they're doing.
Why?
The people who should know what they're doing or what is supposed to happen post brexit are not the government, but brexit voters.
We are told the referendum result was the 'will of the people', not the 'will of the government', indeed when MPs actually come up with an approach they can be accused of betraying the will of the people.
May is staggering along with this not because she has, or is supposed to have an idea, but because of her simple lust for power.
If you voted brexit you could help out by writing to her with your workable, practical and affordable solution to the Irish border problem.
Brexiteers were crying foul over the government "propaganda leaflet", and frothing at £XX millions of taxpayers hard earned money being spent on "promoting" the EU.
As Bournemouth wrote (my bold): "...The government believes the UK should remain in the EU...This leaflet sets out the facts, and explains why the government believes a vote to remain in the EU is in the best interests of the people of the UK"
That is pretty plain, isn't it? How much more plain do you want it to be?
Half joking or not, you are wrong. Your decision was wrong and continuing to defend it (or deflecting the blame for that decision onto someone else) is wrong.
Spouting "you voted leave....you deal with it", is absolutely fair enough. If it makes you uncomfortable, then look at the reasons why, you will find they are very close to home. At least you are beginning to realise the error of your ways, and I admire you for that, better than those that are too stubborn (or genuinely stupid) to see the writing on the wall.
So any "change" becomes the enemy whereas for young people change represents an opportunity.
Don't really think there's more to it than that.