The above mentioned Uplands in Streatham looked after my mother who had multiple problems including dementia. I could visit any time, there was always activity, it was a busy sort of place and all the better for that, they had a proper answer to every question and issue I brought up, I met the care home inspector from Lambeth there so I know they were checked and it was generally impressive. My mother was funded so I don't know the financials, all I do know is that care home staff deserve double whatever they get paid. Absolutely visit any place initially and be very vigilant and ask everything several times over. In my view if a place runs a cat it is a good sign.
Many thanks all. Great advice. Re funding, as Mum has more than £23k in savings we understand that she will be self funding. Is that right, or is it more nuanced?
It may not come to that. Obviously we would try to see if 24 hour care at home might be sufficient. Mentally she's in good shape. Good enough to drag herself to the referendum and vote for Brexit, dammit :-) But we need to get all ducks in a row.
Father in law in a home (dementia) - it isn't more nuanced - she will have to pay from her savings. My father in law fought in the war, never claimed a penny in his life and has payed a fortune. We rent his house which pays something towards the costs but he has about a year left of savings before we will have to sell it.
In terms of the home, I would also look at the ability of the staff as well as the surroundings. Difficult, but inexperienced staff from my experience don't know how to phrase things tactfully so not to upset. It was very difficult putting him in the home, heartbreaking, but he couldn't be left on his own and it is amazing how the brain adjusts (eventually - it took months) to the surroundings.
I am very sorry to hear of your situation. It is very easy to feel guilty but it is something you only do when there is no choice. If you mum doesn't understand that well now, the person she was would.
Many thanks all. Great advice. Re funding, as Mum has more than £23k in savings we understand that she will be self funding. Is that right, or is it more nuanced?
It may not come to that. Obviously we would try to see if 24 hour care at home might be sufficient. Mentally she's in good shape. Good enough to drag herself to the referendum and vote for Brexit, dammit :-) But we need to get all ducks in a row.
On the issue of care home vs care at home, it's a tricky one. We fought hard to try & make it work for my folks in their own place, in the end their needs became too complex to make it work. But meanwhile we saw both the benefits and drawbacks of having carers come in. The obvious advantages are the ability to stay in your own surroundings, and a lower cost. The main drawbacks can be isolation (being on your own for long stretches) and being stuck waiting for carers to show up (and someone in the family will invariably find themselves chasing up carers on a routine basis).
I would urge you to think about the mental as well as physical wellbeing. There are some great care homes which look after people brilliantly (e.g. with severe dementia), but fall short in terms of mental stimulation. Ask to see a timetable of activities, and if it has things like museum outings, ask how many people get to go on them (e.g. if it's a large home with say 80 residents, yes it's great that 12 people have a minibus trip to some gardens, but what are the other 68 doing that morning?). My Mum's place is struggling in that way, and they have made some really dumb decisions - e.g, blowing money on a pool table for a lodge with (mild) dementia patients, most of whom have limited mobility & motor skills. Net result is some very well-cared-for but bored people slumped in front of a TV.
My mum ended up in a care home in Sidcup, just off the High St - 2/8 Hatherley Road, Sidcup DA14 4BG. Its called The Sidcup Care HomeThey really looked after her very well until she passed away at the back end of last year. I can highly recommend it. Hope this helps @PragueAddick
I have a brother in Charlton Park, self funded. It's not cheap but they cater for his needs and he is content. In the big picture of things I wouldn't move him now.
As others have said Prague, it depends on your mum's needs and what the homes can offer. Good luck.
My mother-in-law is in Heathfield Court Care Home which is in Northumberland Heath, Erith - (heathfieldcourtcarehome.co.uk) 0203 434 2919. Is a brand new home, purpose built and is like a four star hotel. We moved her there from a place called Baugh House which was in Sidcup and quite frankly was bloody poor. The new home is a great improvement and is actually cheaper (if that word is appropriate I am not sure) but still costs in the region of £1300 per week, she is also in the position of being "self funding". Good luck with your search, we spent ages looking and researching etc but make sure you visit as many as is practical because they vary so much in quality and what they offer although not much difference in price.
Broadoak in Sutton at Hone looked after my mother-in-law very well, but again might be too far away. As mentioned above, just turn up and look around as you get a good feel of the place. Good luck, as it is a difficult step to take. For my mother-in-law, she was the happiest I had seen her for years when she went in there, because of the company of other people all the time.
My Dad was in Broadoak for his final months and although he was bedridden most of the time, they were very good in looking after him. They seem to have lots of activities for the more mobile residents.
We have in the last 2 months put both in laws in a home in Bexleyheath, Very nice place £1200.00 a week EACH, they have 100k cash and 500k house - bang goes my new Merc
We have in the last 2 months put both in laws in a home in Bexleyheath, Very nice place £1200.00 a week EACH, they have 100k cash and 500k house - bang goes my new Merc
that will keep them there for only five years, what happens then?
We believe/Hope the Council will take over as this would have been their home for 5 years and the upset at that stage of life ( 97 & 92)would be to much, they have a set limit for care £600 per week but in cases like this the home and Council work it out
I would say that it is probably better to keep somebody with dementia in a satisfactory home than move them to what you think is a better one beacuse of the unsettling effect it will have, which makes the initial decision all the more important to get right.
Firstly, thank you everybody. Really. I can't overstate how much this helps, as well as the general emotional lift it gives me. You are all exceptionally decent human beings. Whenever I meet any of you I know, I want to buy you a pint. And if you don't know me, make sure you introduce yourselves if we meet. Trust AGM, maybe.
I have a lot to go on, with my brother and sister back in Eltham, but I would like to ask more about one particular comment:
@BaldybonceThe OP will have to do some research on the difference between Care, Nursing and Residential homes.
I need to swot up on this asap, but maybe i could outline my Mum's condition and perhaps people could suggest which direction we need to head in.
Mentally my Mum is about as good as you could expect at 90. That's good. However both her hearing and eyesight have deteriorated in recent months, so a normal conversation is harder than it was. but no dementia, Parkinsons etc.
Physically she was already pretty immobile, but until recently could get up and down stairs OK, with care.
However she is in her second stay in QEH and the issue is her digestive system. She suffered colorectal cancer back in 1984. The NHS cured her, but the treatment was surgical in those days so she has been left with less than 100% of her bowel. The system now seems to have broken down, and the hospital seems to have difficulty cleaning her out (the hospital treatment is another issue, but that's another matter). So they appear to be suggesting that on returning home she will have to sleep and stay downstairs. Use a commode in the living room. And as for washing, well heaven knows, cannot see where we could install a shower downstairs in that tiny house. The worst thing is that we don't think the hospital has resolved the problem that was in recent days causing her to regularly soil the bed; my brother and his girlfriend fortunately live there at present and were cleaning up. So basically we would be looking for a home for someone who is physically immobile and probably regularly incontinent.
Would anyone have a view, knowing all that (and thank you for even reading it all) as to what kind of home we would be seeking?
its in sandwich so not local but the care was of a very good standard and the same nurses every day so they build up a relationship with the residents.
Although I suspect Broadoak Manor in Sutton-at-Hone may be a little far out for your Mum, they cope well with incontinence. Dad was doubly incontinent for most of his stay there which isn't pleasant, but the carers seem to take it in their stride.
Your best bet is to have a look at some, but nothing you say about your mum should be an issue at any of the homes mentioned, certainly not Fairmount.
The only downside to the 24hr care at home is you will, at times, get let down by the careers, sickness etc.
With the house there is one thing to consider (maybe for Muttely also), once you go into a care home your previous main residence (i.e. your home) remains so for 3 years. If after 3 years you still own the home and then sell it becomes a second residence and therefore potentially CGT is payable if the value has increased since going into the care home. A lot of people rent them out to help fund the care costs but it can be dangerous if you aren't keeping it for the long term and are forced to sell at any point.
There are some similarities to my mother in law aged 89, who had a stroke 2 years ago, which has severely effected her mobility on the left hand side. She's still at home and now lives downstairs.
Between me, my wife & my wife's 2 sisters, we're there the majority of the time.
If we couldn't do this, we would pay for carers to pop in twice a day.
My mother in law washes in the kitchen and my wife helps her upstairs, (hand rail fitted) every weekend to bathe her.
If she could no longer make it upstairs, we would get a stair lift fitted.
She get's to the downstairs toilet during the day, with the help of a walking stick and has a cammode by her bedside (which is now in the downstairs front room) which she uses at night.
It's hard work, but she's still in her own home, which is the most important thing for us.
She has an occasional incontinence problem, but it's manageable at the moment.
If the incontinence is a constant issue then even with pads etc I can't see how home care can work - when the carers say goodnight at 8pm it's a long while until the next visit...
But care homes are used to dealing with that, so you won't need a nursing home.
Wish you & your Mum all the best Richard, it's not a situation anyone would wish for but hopefully you'll find the right solution and she he many good days to come.
@BaldybonceThe OP will have to do some research on the difference between Care, Nursing and Residential homes.
I need to swot up on this asap, but maybe i could outline my Mum's condition and perhaps people could suggest which direction we need to head in.
Would anyone have a view, knowing all that (and thank you for even reading it all) as to what kind of home we would be seeking?
Just also be aware that if she goes into a care home (as distinct from a nursing home) and then her condition changes, spends some time in hospital and then requires nursing care the care home may not accept her back due to her increased needs. You would then be stuck looking for a suitable place in a nursing home with her remaining in hospital until you found a place.
As said before it's a difficult one to call but if possible consider what may happen in 6 months or a year's time.
Some nursing homes (maybe all) have care sections so although she may not need nursing now if she did in the future she wouldn't have to move to another home.
@BaldybonceThe OP will have to do some research on the difference between Care, Nursing and Residential homes.
I need to swot up on this asap, but maybe i could outline my Mum's condition and perhaps people could suggest which direction we need to head in.
Would anyone have a view, knowing all that (and thank you for even reading it all) as to what kind of home we would be seeking?
Just also be aware that if she goes into a care home (as distinct from a nursing home) and then her condition changes, spends some time in hospital and then requires nursing care the care home may not accept her back due to her increased needs. You would then be stuck looking for a suitable place in a nursing home with her remaining in hospital until you found a place.
As said before it's a difficult one to call but if possible consider what may happen in 6 months or a year's time.
Some nursing homes (maybe all) have care sections so although she may not need nursing now if she did in the future she wouldn't have to move to another home.
I pm'd Prague yesterday but will share this information for others here.
With regard the QEH, they do have a Discharge Team, who are more than helpful in these circumstances. I would recommend anyone who finds themselves in a difficult position, talks to them.
I'd say the same as above, Prague. The fact your mum is currently in hospital makes a big difference, I think. Worth checking, but I believe this puts much more onus on NHS/ social services to help find a suitable long term arrangement BEFORE they can discharge. Also potentially means they have to cover more of the initial care costs whether in own home or elsewhere? Others may have more specific info on this.
Checked with my sister, and I am afraid the Discharge team have in our case been useless. Will PM @man_at_milletts to share more. Will share here once I have clarified what has really gone down.
Hi everyone. Just to say that in the end I didn't need to utitlise the excellent advice on this thread - although I know of at least one Lifer who told me that he too had found it very helpful.
My Mum passed away peacefully in QEH early this morning. She deteriorated very suddenly, as they were planning to discharge her yesterday morning and they suddenly called my brother and sister back. Fortunately too, I was able to jump on a flight quickly - the nurse had said get there asap, and just for once, everything worked. She was in a quiet side ward, with very nice nurses, and by 8.00 we were all gathered there together and she was conscious and awake, just could not speak. I believe she passed away as well as a person could wish for. It almost seems like my Mum, a typical little old English lady who does not want to cause a fuss, looked at all the care options and said "sod this for a lark, I'm off"
Anyway, thanks again for all the advice and let's recall this thread exists for the next Lifer who may face this issue.
And as always thanks to our modest heroes @AFKABartram and @LoOkOuT for creating the community where such a thread can thrive.
Comments
I could visit any time, there was always activity, it was a busy sort of place and all the better for that, they had a proper answer to every question and issue I brought up, I met the care home inspector from Lambeth there so I know they were checked and it was generally impressive.
My mother was funded so I don't know the financials, all I do know is that care home staff deserve double whatever they get paid.
Absolutely visit any place initially and be very vigilant and ask everything several times over.
In my view if a place runs a cat it is a good sign.
In terms of the home, I would also look at the ability of the staff as well as the surroundings. Difficult, but inexperienced staff from my experience don't know how to phrase things tactfully so not to upset. It was very difficult putting him in the home, heartbreaking, but he couldn't be left on his own and it is amazing how the brain adjusts (eventually - it took months) to the surroundings.
I am very sorry to hear of your situation. It is very easy to feel guilty but it is something you only do when there is no choice. If you mum doesn't understand that well now, the person she was would.
I would urge you to think about the mental as well as physical wellbeing. There are some great care homes which look after people brilliantly (e.g. with severe dementia), but fall short in terms of mental stimulation. Ask to see a timetable of activities, and if it has things like museum outings, ask how many people get to go on them (e.g. if it's a large home with say 80 residents, yes it's great that 12 people have a minibus trip to some gardens, but what are the other 68 doing that morning?). My Mum's place is struggling in that way, and they have made some really dumb decisions - e.g, blowing money on a pool table for a lodge with (mild) dementia patients, most of whom have limited mobility & motor skills. Net result is some very well-cared-for but bored people slumped in front of a TV.
Its called The Sidcup Care HomeThey really looked after her very well until she passed away at the back end of last year. I can highly recommend it. Hope this helps @PragueAddick
Tel Number is -: 020 8300 7711
As others have said Prague, it depends on your mum's needs and what the homes can offer. Good luck.
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/eligibility-assessment-for-nhs-continuing-healthcare.aspx
Wish all carers and relatives with family in this situation the very best.
I have a lot to go on, with my brother and sister back in Eltham, but I would like to ask more about one particular comment:
@Baldybonce The OP will have to do some research on the difference between Care, Nursing and Residential homes.
I need to swot up on this asap, but maybe i could outline my Mum's condition and perhaps people could suggest which direction we need to head in.
Mentally my Mum is about as good as you could expect at 90. That's good. However both her hearing and eyesight have deteriorated in recent months, so a normal conversation is harder than it was. but no dementia, Parkinsons etc.
Physically she was already pretty immobile, but until recently could get up and down stairs OK, with care.
However she is in her second stay in QEH and the issue is her digestive system. She suffered colorectal cancer back in 1984. The NHS cured her, but the treatment was surgical in those days so she has been left with less than 100% of her bowel. The system now seems to have broken down, and the hospital seems to have difficulty cleaning her out (the hospital treatment is another issue, but that's another matter). So they appear to be suggesting that on returning home she will have to sleep and stay downstairs. Use a commode in the living room. And as for washing, well heaven knows, cannot see where we could install a shower downstairs in that tiny house. The worst thing is that we don't think the hospital has resolved the problem that was in recent days causing her to regularly soil the bed; my brother and his girlfriend fortunately live there at present and were cleaning up. So basically we would be looking for a home for someone who is physically immobile and probably regularly incontinent.
Would anyone have a view, knowing all that (and thank you for even reading it all) as to what kind of home we would be seeking?
http://www.upton-house.co.uk/
its in sandwich so not local but the care was of a very good standard and the same nurses every day so they build up a relationship with the residents.
Residents have their own room which is basic but quite nice.
Meals are school dinner style but its what old people are used to.
pm me for more details.
The only downside to the 24hr care at home is you will, at times, get let down by the careers, sickness etc.
With the house there is one thing to consider (maybe for Muttely also), once you go into a care home your previous main residence (i.e. your home) remains so for 3 years. If after 3 years you still own the home and then sell it becomes a second residence and therefore potentially CGT is payable if the value has increased since going into the care home. A lot of people rent them out to help fund the care costs but it can be dangerous if you aren't keeping it for the long term and are forced to sell at any point.
Between me, my wife & my wife's 2 sisters, we're there the majority of the time.
If we couldn't do this, we would pay for carers to pop in twice a day.
My mother in law washes in the kitchen and my wife helps her upstairs, (hand rail fitted) every weekend to bathe her.
If she could no longer make it upstairs, we would get a stair lift fitted.
She get's to the downstairs toilet during the day, with the help of a walking stick and has a cammode by her bedside (which is now in the downstairs front room) which she uses at night.
It's hard work, but she's still in her own home, which is the most important thing for us.
She has an occasional incontinence problem, but it's manageable at the moment.
But care homes are used to dealing with that, so you won't need a nursing home.
Wish you & your Mum all the best Richard, it's not a situation anyone would wish for but hopefully you'll find the right solution and she he many good days to come.
As said before it's a difficult one to call but if possible consider what may happen in 6 months or a year's time.
Some nursing homes (maybe all) have care sections so although she may not need nursing now if she did in the future she wouldn't have to move to another home.
I pm'd Prague yesterday but will share this information for others here.
With regard the QEH, they do have a Discharge Team, who are more than helpful in these circumstances. I would recommend anyone who finds themselves in a difficult position, talks to them.
If you smell urine when you enter any home walk straight out.
My brother and his wife have a Nursing Home in Norfolk. Good care is out there but there are a lot of places that are there for the money.
and yes, most of them especially BUPA are businesses and they don't miss a trick in taking your money.
My Mum passed away peacefully in QEH early this morning. She deteriorated very suddenly, as they were planning to discharge her yesterday morning and they suddenly called my brother and sister back. Fortunately too, I was able to jump on a flight quickly - the nurse had said get there asap, and just for once, everything worked. She was in a quiet side ward, with very nice nurses, and by 8.00 we were all gathered there together and she was conscious and awake, just could not speak. I believe she passed away as well as a person could wish for. It almost seems like my Mum, a typical little old English lady who does not want to cause a fuss, looked at all the care options and said "sod this for a lark, I'm off"
Anyway, thanks again for all the advice and let's recall this thread exists for the next Lifer who may face this issue.
And as always thanks to our modest heroes @AFKABartram and @LoOkOuT for creating the community where such a thread can thrive.