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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • If only there was some alternative.....
  • If only there was some alternative.....

    TINA!
  • I think Corbyn has to learn the lessons from the last election, even though he greatly exceeded expectations. He should know where the attacks will come from and the type of blows that land. A big one is Trident. I agree with his position on Trident, it doesn't make us safer in the same way that Germany or Italy are not in more danger for not having it. But as it is Labour party policy to keep it, so somebody has to be willing to push the button.

    Diane Abbot has to be kept away from election campaigning as far as possible. She clearly has the support of her constituents but when she talks it feels like she is making it up as she goes along. She is too easily flustered and will cost Labour votes if she has a prominent place on the platform.

    To the same effect, Corbyn needs to use people like Umana and Starmer as much as possible. This will a) link to more moderate Labour voters but b) they are star performers. I'd probably add Creasy and Ashworth to that list.

    Also, It is important not to reign back on promises made in the last manifesto.

    And lastly, maximise your advantages. The Tories will surely have learned from the way Labour used modern communication methods and will improve their game in that respect. Labour needs to build on there position of dominance here.
  • I think Corbyn has to learn the lessons from the last election, even though he greatly exceeded expectations. He should know where the attacks will come from and the type of blows that land. A big one is Trident. I agree with his position on Trident, it doesn't make us safer in the same way that Germany or Italy are not in more danger for not having it. But as it is Labour party policy to keep it, so somebody has to be willing to push the button.

    Diane Abbot has to be kept away from election campaigning as far as possible. She clearly has the support of her constituents but when she talks it feels like she is making it up as she goes along. She is too easily flustered and will cost Labour votes if she has a prominent place on the platform.

    To the same effect, Corbyn needs to use people like Umana and Starmer as much as possible. This will a) link to more moderate Labour voters but b) they are star performers. I'd probably add Creasy and Ashworth to that list.

    Also, It is important not to reign back on promises made in the last manifesto.

    And lastly, maximise your advantages. The Tories will surely have learned from the way Labour used modern communication methods and will improve their game in that respect. Labour needs to build on there position of dominance here.

    Agree with most of this mutts but can’t see the Tories mastering modern communication. If anything I think any attempts by them to use it would work against them given it’s the younger generation that typically engage with it.
  • cabbles said:

    I think the issue I have with Corbyn now is that his principles will need to bend slightly were he to run a successful government. In some ways I admire him for sticking to his principles because I am left leaning and some elements of socialism appeal to me. BUT, and it’s why I wrote what I wrote above, On a lot of things I think is idealism won’t work on a practical level. I truly believe that his utopia is some sort of citizen smithesque, che guervara type dynasty which just won’t work with the way the world is today

    At the other end of the spectrum, we’ve got the Tories who only want to represent old white people who are affluent and live in villages dotted around the English countryside. Both parties are too entrenched in their respective fantasies of what Britain looks like. The most frustrating thing is because the Tories are excelling at the moment at being their usual scummy self serving, cretinuous selves, if Corbyn did just bend and flex a bit, we could have a viable alternative. But we’ve got an absolute farce on both sides

    For all their faults, and there are many, I’m not sure you can say they only represent old white people who are affluent. Struggling to come up with anything they have done particularly for the old and/or affluent!

    I get why people buy into Corbyns utopia world, but personally don’t see it happening, would be interesting to see how it played out though. Think you are right regarding him flexing, the best hope is Labour get a better leader with a little more sense of reality that can kick the Tories into touch for a while.

    I’m still holding out for @bobmunro winning his constituency and then forming a party country wide.
  • Rob7Lee said:

    cabbles said:

    I think the issue I have with Corbyn now is that his principles will need to bend slightly were he to run a successful government. In some ways I admire him for sticking to his principles because I am left leaning and some elements of socialism appeal to me. BUT, and it’s why I wrote what I wrote above, On a lot of things I think is idealism won’t work on a practical level. I truly believe that his utopia is some sort of citizen smithesque, che guervara type dynasty which just won’t work with the way the world is today

    At the other end of the spectrum, we’ve got the Tories who only want to represent old white people who are affluent and live in villages dotted around the English countryside. Both parties are too entrenched in their respective fantasies of what Britain looks like. The most frustrating thing is because the Tories are excelling at the moment at being their usual scummy self serving, cretinuous selves, if Corbyn did just bend and flex a bit, we could have a viable alternative. But we’ve got an absolute farce on both sides

    For all their faults, and there are many, I’m not sure you can say they only represent old white people who are affluent. Struggling to come up with anything they have done particularly for the old and/or affluent!

    I get why people buy into Corbyns utopia world, but personally don’t see it happening, would be interesting to see how it played out though. Think you are right regarding him flexing, the best hope is Labour get a better leader with a little more sense of reality that can kick the Tories into touch for a while.

    I’m still holding out for @bobmunro winning his constituency and then forming a party country wide.
    I was talking a bit in extremes there to be fair but I hope you get the gist. Both parties are too entrenched in their core ideaologies and if either could just be a little bit more flexible, we might have a decent government

    Yes, I’m more than willing to back a bobmunro revolution too
  • cabbles said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    cabbles said:

    I think the issue I have with Corbyn now is that his principles will need to bend slightly were he to run a successful government. In some ways I admire him for sticking to his principles because I am left leaning and some elements of socialism appeal to me. BUT, and it’s why I wrote what I wrote above, On a lot of things I think is idealism won’t work on a practical level. I truly believe that his utopia is some sort of citizen smithesque, che guervara type dynasty which just won’t work with the way the world is today

    At the other end of the spectrum, we’ve got the Tories who only want to represent old white people who are affluent and live in villages dotted around the English countryside. Both parties are too entrenched in their respective fantasies of what Britain looks like. The most frustrating thing is because the Tories are excelling at the moment at being their usual scummy self serving, cretinuous selves, if Corbyn did just bend and flex a bit, we could have a viable alternative. But we’ve got an absolute farce on both sides

    For all their faults, and there are many, I’m not sure you can say they only represent old white people who are affluent. Struggling to come up with anything they have done particularly for the old and/or affluent!

    I get why people buy into Corbyns utopia world, but personally don’t see it happening, would be interesting to see how it played out though. Think you are right regarding him flexing, the best hope is Labour get a better leader with a little more sense of reality that can kick the Tories into touch for a while.

    I’m still holding out for @bobmunro winning his constituency and then forming a party country wide.
    I was talking a bit in extremes there to be fair but I hope you get the gist. Both parties are too entrenched in their core ideaologies and if either could just be a little bit more flexible, we might have a decent government

    Yes, I’m more than willing to back a bobmunro revolution too
    So we are looking for a revolution of what we have had for the last 30 years? The problem is that rightly or wrongly politics is heading in a popularist direction as a reaction to the neo -iberalism we have had. Not sure moving to the centre when everything is moving away from it is going to work. What concerns me is that the alt-right seems to be the place to go for the disaffected and in that respect, Corbyn is a beacon of light.
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  • cabbles said:

    Rob7Lee said:

    cabbles said:

    I think the issue I have with Corbyn now is that his principles will need to bend slightly were he to run a successful government. In some ways I admire him for sticking to his principles because I am left leaning and some elements of socialism appeal to me. BUT, and it’s why I wrote what I wrote above, On a lot of things I think is idealism won’t work on a practical level. I truly believe that his utopia is some sort of citizen smithesque, che guervara type dynasty which just won’t work with the way the world is today

    At the other end of the spectrum, we’ve got the Tories who only want to represent old white people who are affluent and live in villages dotted around the English countryside. Both parties are too entrenched in their respective fantasies of what Britain looks like. The most frustrating thing is because the Tories are excelling at the moment at being their usual scummy self serving, cretinuous selves, if Corbyn did just bend and flex a bit, we could have a viable alternative. But we’ve got an absolute farce on both sides

    For all their faults, and there are many, I’m not sure you can say they only represent old white people who are affluent. Struggling to come up with anything they have done particularly for the old and/or affluent!

    I get why people buy into Corbyns utopia world, but personally don’t see it happening, would be interesting to see how it played out though. Think you are right regarding him flexing, the best hope is Labour get a better leader with a little more sense of reality that can kick the Tories into touch for a while.

    I’m still holding out for @bobmunro winning his constituency and then forming a party country wide.
    I was talking a bit in extremes there to be fair but I hope you get the gist. Both parties are too entrenched in their core ideaologies and if either could just be a little bit more flexible, we might have a decent government

    Yes, I’m more than willing to back a bobmunro revolution too
    I'm busy working on the manifesto - a fairly short but rather succinct tome!
  • Now for May's speech. My advice is use a good glue for the letters and don't mention Corbyn too much. Make your points about him of course, but if you make it all about him, he wins.
  • cabbles said:

    I think the issue I have with Corbyn now is that his principles will need to bend slightly were he to run a successful government. In some ways I admire him for sticking to his principles because I am left leaning and some elements of socialism appeal to me. BUT, and it’s why I wrote what I wrote above, On a lot of things I think is idealism won’t work on a practical level. I truly believe that his utopia is some sort of citizen smithesque, che guervara type dynasty which just won’t work with the way the world is today

    At the other end of the spectrum, we’ve got the Tories who only want to represent old white people who are affluent and live in villages dotted around the English countryside. Both parties are too entrenched in their respective fantasies of what Britain looks like. The most frustrating thing is because the Tories are excelling at the moment at being their usual scummy self serving, cretinuous selves, if Corbyn did just bend and flex a bit, we could have a viable alternative. But we’ve got an absolute farce on both sides

    Racist filth.


  • Those of you that think Corbyn isn’t electable I think need to look beyond your own perceptions. I’m not saying he will win the next election but it’s foolish to think he can’t.

    I still don't think he WILL be the next PM but it's a possible. He was only around 1m short of the tories on numbers of votes (number of seats are a bit different though).

    So if he can persuade 1m more people to join him on his path he probably will be, but I'm not convinced he will do that. I hear very few people who didn't vote for him last time that now will, conversely you do hear of people who did who wouldn't again.

    If voting age drops to 16 he's in with a greater chance but my gut feel is the more time that passes the less popular he becomes with the general public.

    Brexit may play a part to change all of that if the Tories royally mess it up of course.

    The Autumn budget is a little earlier this year, will be interesting to see what that entails and what giveaways they will give to win votes. It's the tories to lose.
  • I love the way he goes from speaking to angrily shouting out of nowhere, was a bit weird.
  • Rob7Lee said:



    Those of you that think Corbyn isn’t electable I think need to look beyond your own perceptions. I’m not saying he will win the next election but it’s foolish to think he can’t.

    I still don't think he WILL be the next PM but it's a possible. He was only around 1m short of the tories on numbers of votes (number of seats are a bit different though).

    So if he can persuade 1m more people to join him on his path he probably will be, but I'm not convinced he will do that. I hear very few people who didn't vote for him last time that now will, conversely you do hear of people who did who wouldn't again.

    If voting age drops to 16 he's in with a greater chance but my gut feel is the more time that passes the less popular he becomes with the general public.

    Brexit may play a part to change all of that if the Tories royally mess it up of course.

    The Autumn budget is a little earlier this year, will be interesting to see what that entails and what giveaways they will give to win votes. It's the tories to lose.
    I think all of that has merit. What you havn’t mentioned though is the complete mess the Tories are in and what a mess they have made of pretty much everything from the prison service to Brexit negotiations. I think there might be a lot of non fully committed Tories that might not vote at all. That might make the one million vote a lot more achievable. So much still to play out so it’s everything still up for grabs.

  • Rob7Lee said:



    Those of you that think Corbyn isn’t electable I think need to look beyond your own perceptions. I’m not saying he will win the next election but it’s foolish to think he can’t.

    I still don't think he WILL be the next PM but it's a possible. He was only around 1m short of the tories on numbers of votes (number of seats are a bit different though).

    So if he can persuade 1m more people to join him on his path he probably will be, but I'm not convinced he will do that. I hear very few people who didn't vote for him last time that now will, conversely you do hear of people who did who wouldn't again.

    If voting age drops to 16 he's in with a greater chance but my gut feel is the more time that passes the less popular he becomes with the general public.

    Brexit may play a part to change all of that if the Tories royally mess it up of course.

    The Autumn budget is a little earlier this year, will be interesting to see what that entails and what giveaways they will give to win votes. It's the tories to lose.
    I think all of that has merit. What you havn’t mentioned though is the complete mess the Tories are in and what a mess they have made of pretty much everything from the prison service to Brexit negotiations. I think there might be a lot of non fully committed Tories that might not vote at all. That might make the one million vote a lot more achievable. So much still to play out so it’s everything still up for grabs.

    I did say it's the Tories to lose, but yes much is still up for grabs, I just hope they hold out until 2022 and then I'll stop working or slow down!
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  • Just watched Tory boy Toby young on GMB this morning. Presented figures that showed that schools funding increased significantly since 1997 to belittle Head teachers protesting in London who claim not to have enough money to run their schools (The first time this has happened). Young accused them of trying to oust the Conservative government and being Labour supporters which was debunked by the Head teacher there.

    But what struck me was his figures reflected increased support for Schools from a Labour government and then steady decreases since 2010. He did not clarify this point, but made an overall increase point from 1997 to say Head teachers shouldn't be having a problem. The head teachers were not bringing politics into it, he was, but his point showed the difference between Labour and Conservative governments! Up to 1997 Schools needed a lot of support to recover from Tory cuts and the minute they got in power, they started cutting again. Up yours Young, you Tory Boy git!

    Did those increases match inflation? Or reflect the amount of students in school now? How about the needs of disabled students that we just didn't deal with back in 1997?

    I have enough contact with teachers in England to know that to claim that schools are anything other than under funded is a shitty joke!

    It's one of the (many) reasons I laugh when my family ask me about returning home!
  • i could be wrong but there is no way the constant attacks on the pm would happen if it was a man, why was corbyn out meeting with the eu officials - nothing to do with him - his party wont be in charge anytime soon.

    will also be interesting to see what coverage the conservative conference gets as last nights news consisted of the same 10 mins shown the previous night of jc jigging to children of the revolution ( cock ) and then 1 min of mays day, surely the news should be impartial?.
  • edited September 2018

    Just watched Tory boy Toby young on GMB this morning. Presented figures that showed that schools funding increased significantly since 1997 to belittle Head teachers protesting in London who claim not to have enough money to run their schools (The first time this has happened). Young accused them of trying to oust the Conservative government and being Labour supporters which was debunked by the Head teacher there.

    But what struck me was his figures reflected increased support for Schools from a Labour government and then steady decreases since 2010. He did not clarify this point, but made an overall increase point from 1997 to say Head teachers shouldn't be having a problem. The head teachers were not bringing politics into it, he was, but his point showed the difference between Labour and Conservative governments! Up to 1997 Schools needed a lot of support to recover from Tory cuts and the minute they got in power, they started cutting again. Up yours Young, you Tory Boy git!

    Did those increases match inflation? Or reflect the amount of students in school now? How about the needs of disabled students that we just didn't deal with back in 1997?

    I have enough contact with teachers in England to know that to claim that schools are anything other than under funded is a shitty joke!

    It's one of the (many) reasons I laugh when my family ask me about returning home!
    He kept using the term real terms. I hate that term! It is complete bollocks! The point is that schools are struggling sufficiently, that Head Teachers who have not taken this action before have decided to do so. That should tell us what we need to know.
  • Up until 15/16 year school funding per pupil kept up with inflation, not that I agreed with it but there is an argument that it increased in some areas as staff didn’t receive a pay rise.

    Since then funding has fallen and on average is lower than 15/16 once you account for inflation partly due to increased numbers.

    https://fullfact.org/education/spending-schools-england/

    I’m a few years out of touch now but there a few years ago was a lot of wastage. No or little help seems to be given and falls to the heads and governing bodies to try to resolve/manage this as the local authorities provide little assistance. Some are better than others at that.

    The new funding formula seems to have been put on hold for a while which means the current way of allocating the money sees some schools and local authorities receiving vastly different amounts to other similar schools/authorities which is a crazy place to be.

    I wish the headteachers luck on this.
  • The Tory conference next week is going to be something.
    The sense of unity will be palpable...not.
  • The will be unified in bashing Corbyn so expect them to do a lot of that!
  • A public face of unity is what the Tories do best. Behind the scenes they hate each other but Party before country every time. Johnson and JRM will be on best behaviour and May will get a standing ovation after her speech.
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