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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • Whenever I see the die hard support for Corbyn I sit back and think how much of a Wally these grown adults will think of themselves in 10-15 years when Corbyn is long gone.

    Really plumbing the depths intellectually with that comment @kentaddick .
  • I follow Frankie and he is right more often than wrong, but if you read the subsequent thread this is from you will see journos saying holding stories is very rare because of the chance of another journo grabbing the story first (and also the associated income)
  • I follow Frankie and he is right more often than wrong, but if you read the subsequent thread this is from you will see journos saying holding stories is very rare because of the chance of another journo grabbing the story first (and also the associated income)
    And journalists never tell lies, particularly when it comes to defending themselves...

    Another prime example of media manipulation, if ever I saw one.
  • Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.
  • Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.

    Don't disagree about Abbott being a liability, but it says it all about media manipulation when people get more shirty about a shadow cabinet member with no power than the Tory front bench.

    Here's an inconvenient truth about Corbyn, by the way: https://evolvepolitics.com/there-were-8-munich-terrorists-none-are-buried-at-the-tunis-cemetery-that-jeremy-corbyn-visited/
  • Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.

    BUT Abbott increased her majority in the last GE, as did Corbyn as did Thornberry.....what world do you live in @hoof_it_up_to_benty

    Heres the last GE results for Abbott et al.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-election-result-labour-mp-increase-majority-11000-votes-shadow-home-secretary-hackney-a7781001.html
  • edited August 2018

    I follow Frankie and he is right more often than wrong, but if you read the subsequent thread this is from you will see journos saying holding stories is very rare because of the chance of another journo grabbing the story first (and also the associated income)
    And journalists never tell lies, particularly when it comes to defending themselves...

    Another prime example of media manipulation, if ever I saw one.
    OK. You know everything. You are right.
    But what they said on the thread I am commenting on makes sense.
    Did you read it?
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  • I follow Frankie and he is right more often than wrong, but if you read the subsequent thread this is from you will see journos saying holding stories is very rare because of the chance of another journo grabbing the story first (and also the associated income)
    Is it at all possible that it is not journalists holding the stories but political foes?
  • I follow Frankie and he is right more often than wrong, but if you read the subsequent thread this is from you will see journos saying holding stories is very rare because of the chance of another journo grabbing the story first (and also the associated income)
    Is it at all possible that it is not journalists holding the stories but political foes?
    Yes.
  • Greenie said:

    Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.

    BUT Abbott increased her majority in the last GE, as did Corbyn as did Thornberry.....what world do you live in @hoof_it_up_to_benty

    Heres the last GE results for Abbott et al.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-election-result-labour-mp-increase-majority-11000-votes-shadow-home-secretary-hackney-a7781001.html
    She's inept on the national stage and her media performances are shocking - if that's a vote winner nationally then Labour should do well. She might be a brilliant constituency MP but as a front bencher she is terrible.

    She seems to have brainfreeze time and time again when interviewed - she was effectively removed from media duties during the last election.
  • Greenie said:

    Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.

    BUT Abbott increased her majority in the last GE, as did Corbyn as did Thornberry.....what world do you live in @hoof_it_up_to_benty

    Heres the last GE results for Abbott et al.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-election-result-labour-mp-increase-majority-11000-votes-shadow-home-secretary-hackney-a7781001.html
    She's inept on the national stage and her media performances are shocking - if that's a vote winner nationally then Labour should do well. She might be a brilliant constituency MP but as a front bencher she is terrible.

    She seems to have brainfreeze time and time again when interviewed - she was effectively removed from media duties during the last election.
    I don't think anybody is really defending her as a national vote winner, what people are doing is defending her against some pretty cruel, borderline racist and not proportionate attacks.
  • edited August 2018

    Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.

    Don't disagree about Abbott being a liability, but it says it all about media manipulation when people get more shirty about a shadow cabinet member with no power than the Tory front bench.

    Here's an inconvenient truth about Corbyn, by the way: https://evolvepolitics.com/there-were-8-munich-terrorists-none-are-buried-at-the-tunis-cemetery-that-jeremy-corbyn-visited/
    @Algarveaddick
    I doubt we significantly differ politically based on your posts but whilst I agree that Corbyn is preferable to the Tory demolition gang we currently have, even as a lifelong labour voter I’m convinced the quality of a Corbyn led labour government might well see labour being out of office for a generation. That’s terrible news for anyone that isn’t on a six figure salary.

    As far as the inconvenient truth. Certainly none of eight Munich terrorists are buried in Tunis. There was however a wreath laying ceremony specifically for those eight. Corbyn was present at that ceremony although we now now he wasn’t actually participating. Yeah right.

  • Greenie said:

    Greenie said:

    Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.

    BUT Abbott increased her majority in the last GE, as did Corbyn as did Thornberry.....what world do you live in @hoof_it_up_to_benty

    Heres the last GE results for Abbott et al.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-election-result-labour-mp-increase-majority-11000-votes-shadow-home-secretary-hackney-a7781001.html
    She's inept on the national stage and her media performances are shocking - if that's a vote winner nationally then Labour should do well. She might be a brilliant constituency MP but as a front bencher she is terrible.

    She seems to have brainfreeze time and time again when interviewed - she was effectively removed from media duties during the last election.
    Just for a bit of balance, I see your Diane Abbott and raise you a Boris Jonhson.
    Also you have you seen many of the toe-curling performance's by May The Incompetent and the abominations that are in the cabinet, going along merrily fucking up every aspect of our country, except the bit where they get richer at the expense of everyone else, you must have surely.
    I don't really buy into the argument that because the Tories have bad performers it somehow makes sense for Labour to push forward Diane Abbott to the front bench - they have better people in the party who should get the position. She has done a series of 'car crash' interviews and I can't see what good it does Labour to have her as Shadow home Secretary?

  • edited August 2018

    Greenie said:

    Greenie said:

    Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.

    BUT Abbott increased her majority in the last GE, as did Corbyn as did Thornberry.....what world do you live in @hoof_it_up_to_benty

    Heres the last GE results for Abbott et al.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-election-result-labour-mp-increase-majority-11000-votes-shadow-home-secretary-hackney-a7781001.html
    She's inept on the national stage and her media performances are shocking - if that's a vote winner nationally then Labour should do well. She might be a brilliant constituency MP but as a front bencher she is terrible.

    She seems to have brainfreeze time and time again when interviewed - she was effectively removed from media duties during the last election.
    Just for a bit of balance, I see your Diane Abbott and raise you a Boris Jonhson.
    Also you have you seen many of the toe-curling performance's by May The Incompetent and the abominations that are in the cabinet, going along merrily fucking up every aspect of our country, except the bit where they get richer at the expense of everyone else, you must have surely.
    I don't really buy into the argument that because the Tories have bad performers it somehow makes sense for Labour to push forward Diane Abbott to the front bench - they have better people in the party who should get the position. She has done a series of 'car crash' interviews and I can't see what good it does Labour to have her as Shadow home Secretary?

    The very real paucity of Labours front bench is mainly because of nepotism by Corbyn and the refusal of competent centre left Labour MP’s of accepting Cabinet jobs. It wasn’t too long ago that he couldn’t fill the shadow cabinet posts.

  • Greenie said:

    Greenie said:

    Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn are not going to win many votes for Labour - it says it all that Labour isn't doing better when the Tories are self-destructing.

    Diane Abbott's media performances have been inept beyond belief and she shouldn't be anywhere near high office. She can't trot out the race card to defend herself and she will be a liability at elections.

    BUT Abbott increased her majority in the last GE, as did Corbyn as did Thornberry.....what world do you live in @hoof_it_up_to_benty

    Heres the last GE results for Abbott et al.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/diane-abbott-election-result-labour-mp-increase-majority-11000-votes-shadow-home-secretary-hackney-a7781001.html
    She's inept on the national stage and her media performances are shocking - if that's a vote winner nationally then Labour should do well. She might be a brilliant constituency MP but as a front bencher she is terrible.

    She seems to have brainfreeze time and time again when interviewed - she was effectively removed from media duties during the last election.
    Just for a bit of balance, I see your Diane Abbott and raise you a Boris Jonhson.
    Also you have you seen many of the toe-curling performance's by May The Incompetent and the abominations that are in the cabinet, going along merrily fucking up every aspect of our country, except the bit where they get richer at the expense of everyone else, you must have surely.
    I don't really buy into the argument that because the Tories have bad performers it somehow makes sense for Labour to push forward Diane Abbott to the front bench - they have better people in the party who should get the position. She has done a series of 'car crash' interviews and I can't see what good it does Labour to have her as Shadow home Secretary?

    The very real paucity of Labours front bench is mainly because of nepotism by Corbyn and the refusal of competent centre left Labour MP’s of accepting Cabinet jobs. It wasn’t too long ago that he couldn’t fill the shadow cabinet posts.

    Agreed.
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  • @Cordoban Addick

    I’m sure all of that is true and a lot more, so why are they allowed to get away with it? Simple answer because they can (to a lesser extent than previously mind).

    I don’t agree they are being given a free ride by the public, more that currently more people are happy to ride the Tory horse than the Labour Pony.

    Labour made good ground at the last election, enough to curb the Tories a little, but have been unable to make further headway if indeed they haven’t gone backwards as it appears.

    How much of the last election was a protest vote whether Brexit or anti austerity only time will tell. But I can’t see anything but much of the same slightly watered down for the next 3-4 years and unless the opposition sort themselves out then for a lot longer.
  • edited August 2018
    The NHS is undoubtedly in trouble, but £140 billion went into it last year.
    A record amount, but still not enough.
    Tories increase spending less than Labour, and I don't understand why Lib Dems couldn't push for greater spending when they had the chance, though they call economic downturn as a reason.
    If I was dismantling something I would cut spending, not increase it.
    So, guilty of not increasing spending more, but that isn't dismantling it.
  • edited August 2018
    Greenie said:

    Leuth said:

    Everyone, please disperse. Corbyn is the real racist. End of discussion.

    No, Corbyn is just one of many racists but his fanboys will excuse any of his actions supporting terrorists, reject any evidence of him supporting racist, homophobic, misogynist terrorists and believe every ever more incredible excuses "I was there but didn't take part" being the latest.

    None so blind as those who refuse to see.

    Cue the usual "Whataboutery", " he needs to speak to these terrorists to bring peace", "it's all a smear", etc etc etc
    Who the fuck is he? And who'd have thought we'd ever see the words Corbyn and passionate in the same sentence? So, Corbyn has a higher anti-racism passion status than, say, Jessie Jackson and Rosa Parks - I don't think so.
    Greenie said:

    seth plum said:

    The attitude people have to Corbyn is one thing but this thread title is about the Tories.

    In my view anybody with a functioning brain should be able to see the Tory 'leadership' group of main players are either morons, self serving morons, betrayers of friends, betrayers of peop!e, money driven and money grabbing, manipulators of latent racism, overtly racist themselves, heartless without any capacity to empathise, out and out liars, and nurturers of contempt and distain for others, and people who would happily see others exploited for their own gain.

    In my view people who vote Tory are enthusiastic allies of many of the attitudes I have listed above. In my view they are driven by selfish destructive greed and hatred and In the Tories they have a monster to admire.

    In terms of measurement and proportion, the wrongs of Corbyn are a flea bite compared to the savaging of the nation by the Tories in my opinion.

    Still....Diane Abbot hey?

    Fair post Seth. But I think more misguided in many cases.
    And the nice red background makes it doubly true. Or not, possibly. In any event there are 3.6mn households in the UK that qualify for millionaire status (after deduction of any o/s mortgages) out of a total 26mn households. That's a fairly hefty 14% and as voters (and voters that actually vote) I suspect the Tories think they need looking after a bit.
  • The NHS is undoubtedly in trouble, but £140 billion went into it last year.
    A record amount, but still not enough.
    Tories increase spending less than Labour, and I don't understand why Lib Dems couldn't push for greater spending when they had the chance, though they call economic downturn as a reason.
    If I was dismantling something I would cut spending, not increase it.
    So, guilty of not increasing spending more, but that isn't dismantling it.

    Regardless of spending on the NHS it is beset by a number of problems - it needs an overhaul in many areas. There has been a lack of coherent long-term planning from successive governments.
  • The NHS is undoubtedly in trouble, but £140 billion went into it last year.
    A record amount, but still not enough.
    Tories increase spending less than Labour, and I don't understand why Lib Dems couldn't push for greater spending when they had the chance, though they call economic downturn as a reason.
    If I was dismantling something I would cut spending, not increase it.
    So, guilty of not increasing spending more, but that isn't dismantling it.

    You are not as crafty as the Tories then, Art. They seem to have you fooled?
  • cafcfan said:

    Greenie said:

    Leuth said:

    Everyone, please disperse. Corbyn is the real racist. End of discussion.

    No, Corbyn is just one of many racists but his fanboys will excuse any of his actions supporting terrorists, reject any evidence of him supporting racist, homophobic, misogynist terrorists and believe every ever more incredible excuses "I was there but didn't take part" being the latest.

    None so blind as those who refuse to see.

    Cue the usual "Whataboutery", " he needs to speak to these terrorists to bring peace", "it's all a smear", etc etc etc
    Who the fuck is he? And who'd have thought we'd ever see the words Corbyn and passionate in the same sentence? So, Corbyn has a higher anti-racism passion status than, say, Jessie Jackson and Rosa Parks - I don't think so.
    Greenie said:

    seth plum said:

    The attitude people have to Corbyn is one thing but this thread title is about the Tories.

    In my view anybody with a functioning brain should be able to see the Tory 'leadership' group of main players are either morons, self serving morons, betrayers of friends, betrayers of peop!e, money driven and money grabbing, manipulators of latent racism, overtly racist themselves, heartless without any capacity to empathise, out and out liars, and nurturers of contempt and distain for others, and people who would happily see others exploited for their own gain.

    In my view people who vote Tory are enthusiastic allies of many of the attitudes I have listed above. In my view they are driven by selfish destructive greed and hatred and In the Tories they have a monster to admire.

    In terms of measurement and proportion, the wrongs of Corbyn are a flea bite compared to the savaging of the nation by the Tories in my opinion.

    Still....Diane Abbot hey?

    Fair post Seth. But I think more misguided in many cases.
    And the nice red background makes it doubly true. Or not, possibly. In any event there are 3.6mn households in the UK that qualify for millionaire status (after deduction of any o/s mortgages) out of a total 26mn households. That's a fairly hefty 14% and as voters (and voters that actually vote) I suspect the Tories think they need looking after a bit.
    So you choose to shoot the messenger and ignore the message. Well played @cafcfan
  • cabbles said:

    So today on a very quiet Wednesday in the middle of a Parliamentary break we have.

    Executive salaries are increasing by 11% annually, so much for all in it together. Average salaries are still rising lower than inflation.

    Rail fares will increase by 3.2% in January following a 3.9% increase this year, both higher than inflation. Rail travel for most is abysmal.

    The amount of people from poorer postcodes attending Russell Group universities has barely changed rubbishing Tory claims that they would double it.

    Boris still remains unpunished/not apologised despite his dog whistle political speeches appealing to the right wing of his party.

    And in the background.

    Brexit is still a shit show.

    The NHS is still collapsing.

    Schools and education are still struggling. Local democracy is being removed with the academyisation of schools

    Several Tory councils have gone bust, most others are facing further cuts meaning our most vulnerable will suffer.

    The Tories clearly have no need to change if the people continue to give them a free ride.

    Spot on Cordoban. I also echo @seth plum 's comments about the Tory Leadership. They are vile human beings who I wouldn't even acknowledge were they in the same room as me. I find them abhorrent.

    The Tories won 331 parliamentary seats(out of 650) on a 36.9% vote in 2015 - our electoral system perpetuates the current two party system. Seems unlikely anything will change dramatically in the near future.

    It seems likely to me the UK will swing further to the right once we leave the EU. What will our economic model be?
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