How on earth can this government take the country along with it to a negotiated deal with Europe when 99% of its time is spent in fighting with two irreconcilable factions of the Tory party.
They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election. Every day that passes takes us closer to the precipice. Their stance of party over country is unforgivable.
How on earth can this government take the country along with it to a negotiated deal with Europe when 99% of its time is spent in fighting with two irreconcilable factions of the Tory party.
They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election. Every day that passes takes us closer to the precipice. Their stance of party over country is unforgivable.
How the tories need to change is quite different from how we need them to change. With Corbyn at the helm, there is no credible opposition and little to no chance of the tory party finding itself in a weaker parliamentary position than now. A year ago the nation spurned the best opportunity in a lifetime to dish out a severe spanking. Despite the tories lowering their strides and bending forward, volunteering their cheeks for a furious reddening, no, they got away with it, voters demonstrated for the 2nd time in quick succession that they have no idea what's good for themselves and voted the despicable, mendacious, half-witted, self-serving, scumsuckers back in for another 5 years. Given the electorate's insatiable appetite for misery and hardship, the tories are safe as houses until there is a collective moment of clarity in the Labour Party and any kind of parliamentary pragmatism breaks out. Even then they are so far removed and insulated from 'the real world' they're not really gonna care until they are individually voted out. The changes we need from the tory party reptiles simply ain't gonna materialise before they feel opposed and maybe not even then - I'm not sure they have retained the collective intellect to recognise anything that matters anymore. The Northern Ireland situation, perversely perhaps, offers a chink of light: Life goes on in the province unencumbered by interference from career politicians. Most people are rightly furious that the MLA's continue to trouser their £48k p.a. plus expenses for doing fuck all but at least that's all they are getting wrong. Anybody been to Belfast lately? It's a terrific place to visit. Perhaps if the Westminster party animals can be corralled into spending all their time and energy just arguing among themselves, they can leave we citizens to get on with getting on with life without their malign interference.
I don’t quite have the same full on dislike for the Tories, but hard to argue with most of that, I fully share the view that there’s no credible opposition, I think that’s also true for a large part of the electorate who voted Tory. It’s not nice but better than the alternative.
I just don’t see or hear of many/any people who voted Tory suddenly seeing the light when it comes to corbyn and his current Labour machine, but I do know of some Corbyn voters who won’t vote for him again next time and the polls are starting to show that.
Brexit is a mess, but Labour have hardly set their stall out, so again I don’t see swathes of people who voted Tory jumping into the Red Sea over it.
We’ve probably got 4 more years of the same and then at best a watered down version of it or at worst Corbyn, Abbot and McDonnel in a coalition with the SNP et all..... if the latter happens hopefully by then I’ll only be a year or two from packing up the city and can join the many and not the few
I pretty much agree with you now mate about labour under Corbyn. I’ve always voted labour on account of my hatred of the Tory party, but I’m not so sure I would want the above. Corbyn has charisma and his a principled man which I respect, but when you’re in government your principles have to bend and flex to try and get the best for the country in the given situation. I worry he would stick to his principles whatever the consequences
I watched the debate on Tuesday, and before our very eyes we were seeing notes passed and deals being done in the chamber, chief amongst the main players was the Solicitor General.
Tory 'rebels' decided to back the government after 14 of them met Theresa May where she apparently assured them as a matter of trust in her, that their concerns would be met in an amended House of Lords clause which would then come back all nice and approvable to the Commons.
In PMQ's yesterday she repeated the assertion that would happen, but then Rees Mogg stood up and dug her out about Government should govern and Members of Parliament should keep out of it.
Lo and behold today she has broken the solemn word she gave her colleagues at the meeting of 14 on Tuesday.
There are plenty who rightly criticise the shenanigans of Labour, but the Tories said that Labour would be a coalition of chaos, whilst the Tories would be strong and stable. Duh.
Tory voters must be delighted it's all going so well. In comparison to Tory 'night of the long knives' politics, the Labour party comes across as a pink and fluffy unified force despite their own vote and division yesterday.
I see that Rees Mogg is chalked up to make £24million from brexit, but no, it isn't the money that interests him, it is not wanting to be part of a 'vassal state'. However he wouldn't mind returning to a time when his serfs were tilling their strips of land on his Somerset acres. Also the £24million comes in handy when you have six kids and another £5million house in Westminster to buy eh Jacob?
The actual Tory candidate in today's election in Lewisham East, a bloke of 28 called Ross Archer, actually called at my house this morning. I asked him directly to tell me in detail what he would do on the Irish border in the event of no deal. After a bit of tooing and froing as I pressed him, we both concluded he didn't have a clue. You could see that at 28 he was sweating ambition, and fighting Lewisham East would be a stepping stone to a more winnable Tory seat, but he was basically empty and useless with nothing to contribute.
How on earth can this government take the country along with it to a negotiated deal with Europe when 99% of its time is spent in fighting with two irreconcilable factions of the Tory party.
They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election. Every day that passes takes us closer to the precipice. Their stance of party over country is unforgivable.
How on earth can this government take the country along with it to a negotiated deal with Europe when 99% of its time is spent in fighting with two irreconcilable factions of the Tory party.
They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election. Every day that passes takes us closer to the precipice. Their stance of party over country is unforgivable.
'urged' to abstain by Corbyn, 90 went against him and 6 quit their front bench roles......
And once again a post about the Tories becomes a post about Labour.
The fact of the matter is that Brexit is a mess created by the Conservative party who are also the party of government, what are they doing about it?
Nonsense,
"They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election" - I was simply pointing out that if thats what happens it's not like Labour have a firm, joined up, whole party together, brexit strategy so the alternative (as suggested by way of a general election) is or would be frying pan to the fire.
How on earth can this government take the country along with it to a negotiated deal with Europe when 99% of its time is spent in fighting with two irreconcilable factions of the Tory party.
They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election. Every day that passes takes us closer to the precipice. Their stance of party over country is unforgivable.
'urged' to abstain by Corbyn, 90 went against him and 6 quit their front bench roles......
And once again a post about the Tories becomes a post about Labour.
The fact of the matter is that Brexit is a mess created by the Conservative party who are also the party of government, what are they doing about it?
Nonsense,
"They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election" - I was simply pointing out that if thats what happens it's not like Labour have a firm, joined up, whole party together, brexit strategy so the alternative (as suggested by way of a general election) is or would be frying pan to the fire.
Maybe an election could be fought where each candidate, regardless of party, states their own brexit position. If brexit is enough of a priority in their constituency it will be reflected in the vote, and then MPs can proceed conscience free to vote how they want, and vote party free on brexit. People voted in the brexit referendum across party lines, MP's should vote on brexit in Parliament across party lines.
How on earth can this government take the country along with it to a negotiated deal with Europe when 99% of its time is spent in fighting with two irreconcilable factions of the Tory party.
They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election. Every day that passes takes us closer to the precipice. Their stance of party over country is unforgivable.
'urged' to abstain by Corbyn, 90 went against him and 6 quit their front bench roles......
And once again a post about the Tories becomes a post about Labour.
The fact of the matter is that Brexit is a mess created by the Conservative party who are also the party of government, what are they doing about it?
Nonsense,
"They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election" - I was simply pointing out that if thats what happens it's not like Labour have a firm, joined up, whole party together, brexit strategy so the alternative (as suggested by way of a general election) is or would be frying pan to the fire.
After the election she had a difficult meeting with the 1922 committee where she was basically told the election was her fault and it was now her responsibility not to resign and keep the party together! That is why she has put up with all this crap! They are ultimately more interested than that than the country.
In Lewisham East the Tories finished third behind Lib Dems where Labour retained the seat with a significantly reduced majority and here’s the thing. The turn out was around 33%. People really are fed up with the shite political classes we currently have in this country.
In Lewisham East the Tories finished third behind Lib Dems where Labour retained the seat with a significantly reduced majority and here’s the thing. The turn out was around 33%. People really are fed up with the shite political classes we currently have in this country.
Just saw why. Blocking a bill making "upskirting" a criminal offence... For his on sake, I hope he publicly gets behind the need, but makes specific objections to the wording of the bill? Seems his objection was that the bill wasn't debated.
Just saw why. Blocking a bill making "upskirting" a criminal offence... For his on sake, I hope he publicly gets behind the need, but makes specific objections to the wording of the bill? Seems his objection was that the bill wasn't debated.
Doesn't look good though.
Surely he would have been aware how this looks! Incredible!
Just saw why. Blocking a bill making "upskirting" a criminal offence... For his on sake, I hope he publicly gets behind the need, but makes specific objections to the wording of the bill? Seems his objection was that the bill wasn't debated.
Doesn't look good though.
Pretty big own goal seeing how the government are supporting the bill.
Just saw why. Blocking a bill making "upskirting" a criminal offence... For his on sake, I hope he publicly gets behind the need, but makes specific objections to the wording of the bill? Seems his objection was that the bill wasn't debated.
Doesn't look good though.
Surely he would have been aware how this looks! Incredible!
Not incredible if you're a Tory like him. Entitled.
I don't think this is a Tory thing TBF other than him showing he is out of touch. It is scary that he had no insight to what it looks like! And it is sensible legislation - the sort you are surprised wasn't already in place and it had cross party support.
The reactions on here re Chope were exactly the same as mine were. Initially. But then I thought about it a bit. Chope is a barrister. I haven't seen the wording of the draft bill but wonder if it was defective? (Private members' bills often are - the dangerous dogs legislation being a prime example.)
Here's an example. What item(s) of clothing is mentioned? Is it just the "skirt"? Would that make it an offence for blokes to take photos up women's skirts while leaving it as entirely legal for women to take photos up blokes' shorts? If so, the draft would be defective. I suspect it will be back in due course but properly written. Anyone got a link to the draft bill?
Edited to add: I've found the draft. It is the Voyeurism (Offences) Bill, the purpose of which is to amend other existing legislation. It is neutral with regard to clothing and sex.
But I wonder if Chope didn't like this bit:
(3) The purposes referred to in subsections (1) and (2) are— (a) obtaining sexual gratification (whether for A or C), or (b) humiliating, distressing or alarming B.
It seems to me that if you were "just doing it for a laugh" rather than any form of gratification, etc then it might be difficult to prove otherwise.
The reactions on here re Chope were exactly the same as mine were. Initially. But then I thought about it a bit. Chope is a barrister. I haven't seen the wording of the draft bill but wonder if it was defective? (Private members' bills often are - the dangerous dogs legislation being a prime example.)
Here's an example. What item(s) of clothing is mentioned? Is it just the "skirt"? Would that make it an offence for blokes to take photos up women's skirts while leaving it as entirely legal for women to take photos up blokes' shorts? If so, the draft would be defective. I suspect it will be back in due course but properly written. Anyone got a link to the draft bill?
That might be a good argument, however do you realise Chope is a serial see you next Tuesdayer? Check (as one example) his stance on the pardoning of Alan Turing.
The reactions on here re Chope were exactly the same as mine were. Initially. But then I thought about it a bit. Chope is a barrister. I haven't seen the wording of the draft bill but wonder if it was defective? (Private members' bills often are - the dangerous dogs legislation being a prime example.)
Here's an example. What item(s) of clothing is mentioned? Is it just the "skirt"? Would that make it an offence for blokes to take photos up women's skirts while leaving it as entirely legal for women to take photos up blokes' shorts? If so, the draft would be defective. I suspect it will be back in due course but properly written. Anyone got a link to the draft bill?
That might be a good argument, however do you realise Chope is a serial see you next Tuesdayer? Check (as one example) his stance on the pardoning of Alan Turing.
Yeah, I know all about that but see my edit. It seems to me as a layman that a decent lawyer would just laugh at that wording in Court. It needs more substance. Again, I suspect it will be back in due course as a Govt. sponsored bill with tighter drafting.
The reactions on here re Chope were exactly the same as mine were. Initially. But then I thought about it a bit. Chope is a barrister. I haven't seen the wording of the draft bill but wonder if it was defective? (Private members' bills often are - the dangerous dogs legislation being a prime example.)
Here's an example. What item(s) of clothing is mentioned? Is it just the "skirt"? Would that make it an offence for blokes to take photos up women's skirts while leaving it as entirely legal for women to take photos up blokes' shorts? If so, the draft would be defective. I suspect it will be back in due course but properly written. Anyone got a link to the draft bill?
That might be a good argument, however do you realise Chope is a serial see you next Tuesdayer? Check (as one example) his stance on the pardoning of Alan Turing.
Comments
They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election. Every day that passes takes us closer to the precipice. Their stance of party over country is unforgivable.
'urged' to abstain by Corbyn, 90 went against him and 6 quit their front bench roles......
Tory 'rebels' decided to back the government after 14 of them met Theresa May where she apparently assured them as a matter of trust in her, that their concerns would be met in an amended House of Lords clause which would then come back all nice and approvable to the Commons.
In PMQ's yesterday she repeated the assertion that would happen, but then Rees Mogg stood up and dug her out about Government should govern and Members of Parliament should keep out of it.
Lo and behold today she has broken the solemn word she gave her colleagues at the meeting of 14 on Tuesday.
There are plenty who rightly criticise the shenanigans of Labour, but the Tories said that Labour would be a coalition of chaos, whilst the Tories would be strong and stable. Duh.
Tory voters must be delighted it's all going so well. In comparison to Tory 'night of the long knives' politics, the Labour party comes across as a pink and fluffy unified force despite their own vote and division yesterday.
I see that Rees Mogg is chalked up to make £24million from brexit, but no, it isn't the money that interests him, it is not wanting to be part of a 'vassal state'. However he wouldn't mind returning to a time when his serfs were tilling their strips of land on his Somerset acres. Also the £24million comes in handy when you have six kids and another £5million house in Westminster to buy eh Jacob?
The actual Tory candidate in today's election in Lewisham East, a bloke of 28 called Ross Archer, actually called at my house this morning. I asked him directly to tell me in detail what he would do on the Irish border in the event of no deal. After a bit of tooing and froing as I pressed him, we both concluded he didn't have a clue. You could see that at 28 he was sweating ambition, and fighting Lewisham East would be a stepping stone to a more winnable Tory seat, but he was basically empty and useless with nothing to contribute.
I didn't vote for him.
The fact of the matter is that Brexit is a mess created by the Conservative party who are also the party of government, what are they doing about it?
"They should say now that they cannot deliver Brexit and call an election" - I was simply pointing out that if thats what happens it's not like Labour have a firm, joined up, whole party together, brexit strategy so the alternative (as suggested by way of a general election) is or would be frying pan to the fire.
even @cabbles has seen the light
People voted in the brexit referendum across party lines, MP's should vote on brexit in Parliament across party lines.
Doesn't look good though.
Entitled.
Here's an example. What item(s) of clothing is mentioned? Is it just the "skirt"? Would that make it an offence for blokes to take photos up women's skirts while leaving it as entirely legal for women to take photos up blokes' shorts? If so, the draft would be defective. I suspect it will be back in due course but properly written. Anyone got a link to the draft bill?
Edited to add: I've found the draft. It is the Voyeurism (Offences) Bill, the purpose of which is to amend other existing legislation. It is neutral with regard to clothing and sex.
But I wonder if Chope didn't like this bit:
(3) The purposes referred to in subsections (1) and (2) are—
(a) obtaining sexual gratification (whether for A or C), or
(b) humiliating, distressing or alarming B.
It seems to me that if you were "just doing it for a laugh" rather than any form of gratification, etc then it might be difficult to prove otherwise.
In any event Chope is still a tosser.