Thing is. It’s the utter greed and unfairness of the very few Fiiish talks about which is the driver for a change. In general people are conservative with a small c and look for stability and continuity but eventually a line gets crossed and people see the unfairness and lose patience with the status quo. There is now a whole generation that are excluded from the very thing that this country lauds which is being a stakeholder. No or little prospect of home ownership. Stagnation in wages no matter how much effort you put in and a fall in living standards year on year. Exactly where is the good news for the ordinary man ?
It’s ok for the older generation (me @ 61) who have their House, had their careers and are willing to accept the status quo but if you were one of those I mention I’d be itching to see a different approach and all the whinging of the elite that it wouldn’t work would mean jack sh1t to me. You only have to look at the referendum to see just how large and widespread the dissatisfaction is where people voted for change at any cost. Trump is the American version of the same and the meteoric rise of Macron shows just how someone Fresh offering something different can win support.
The Tories can’t change. Their power base is built on the haves. The time for the have nots is on the horizon and the young and ordinary working people are for the first time mobilised enough to have an impact.
Spot on post which cuts through the rest of the thread for me.
People are tired of the status quo and want big changes. That means rise in support for figures who have radical ideas or present themselves as an outsider, like Corbyn, like Macron, Sanders and even Trump in the States.
It's why Hillary lost the presidency despite the alternative IMO. She was just "more of the same" and the ordinary person is no longer accepting that...
Thing is. It’s the utter greed and unfairness of the very few Fiiish talks about which is the driver for a change. In general people are conservative with a small c and look for stability and continuity but eventually a line gets crossed and people see the unfairness and lose patience with the status quo. There is now a whole generation that are excluded from the very thing that this country lauds which is being a stakeholder. No or little prospect of home ownership. Stagnation in wages no matter how much effort you put in and a fall in living standards year on year. Exactly where is the good news for the ordinary man ?
It’s ok for the older generation (me @ 61) who have their House, had their careers and are willing to accept the status quo but if you were one of those I mention I’d be itching to see a different approach and all the whinging of the elite that it wouldn’t work would mean jack sh1t to me. You only have to look at the referendum to see just how large and widespread the dissatisfaction is where people voted for change at any cost. Trump is the American version of the same and the meteoric rise of Macron shows just how someone Fresh offering something different can win support.
The Tories can’t change. Their power base is built on the haves. The time for the have nots is on the horizon and the young and ordinary working people are for the first time mobilised enough to have an impact.
Spot on post which cuts through the rest of the thread for me.
People are tired of the status quo and want big changes. That means rise in support for figures who have radical ideas or present themselves as an outsider, like Corbyn, like Macron, Sanders and even Trump in the States.
It's why Hillary lost the presidency despite the alternative IMO. She was just "more of the same" and the ordinary person is no longer accepting that...
I agree and would add that Trump, Brexit, Macron, Corbyn & Sanders ran positive campaigns in the sense of what could be possible and they all surpassed expectations.
The only issue I see with the recent posts above including mine is the tribal aspect of voting which @LenGlover quite correctly described earlier as people in some places would vote for a pig in the correct coloured rosette.
I think this voting tribalism is mostly prevalent in the over 50’s but even if that’s correct it’s an awful lot of votes. I’m hoping and do think that the under 50’s and certainly the under 40’s are not so entrenched in their voting.
Things used to be even more tribal with even greater extremes. My grandad (born 1918) in his memoir that his father was far-right and he was a communist in the 30s, and that was pretty much the choice! They decided to try and understand each other's position, so attended each others rallies. The far right one ended in a mass brawl! (And governments of both political leaning are responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths....)
Thing is. It’s the utter greed and unfairness of the very few Fiiish talks about which is the driver for a change. In general people are conservative with a small c and look for stability and continuity but eventually a line gets crossed and people see the unfairness and lose patience with the status quo. There is now a whole generation that are excluded from the very thing that this country lauds which is being a stakeholder. No or little prospect of home ownership. Stagnation in wages no matter how much effort you put in and a fall in living standards year on year. Exactly where is the good news for the ordinary man ?
It’s ok for the older generation (me @ 61) who have their House, had their careers and are willing to accept the status quo but if you were one of those I mention I’d be itching to see a different approach and all the whinging of the elite that it wouldn’t work would mean jack sh1t to me. You only have to look at the referendum to see just how large and widespread the dissatisfaction is where people voted for change at any cost. Trump is the American version of the same and the meteoric rise of Macron shows just how someone Fresh offering something different can win support.
The Tories can’t change. Their power base is built on the haves. The time for the have nots is on the horizon and the young and ordinary working people are for the first time mobilised enough to have an impact.
The only issue I see with the recent posts above including mine is the tribal aspect of voting which @LenGlover quite correctly described earlier as people in some places would vote for a pig in the correct coloured rosette.
I think this voting tribalism is mostly prevalent in the over 50’s but even if that’s correct it’s an awful lot of votes. I’m hoping and do think that the under 50’s and certainly the under 40’s are not so entrenched in their voting.
I'd agree with that, although they are no longer around my two sets of grandparents would vote for a party regardless of who their local candidate was or leader of a party or manifesto's etc, one set blue one set red, both very stuck in their voting ways and unable to understand why anyone would vote for the party they didn't. Conversely and oddly my mum, daughter of the 'blues' would only ever have voted Labour, my Dad, son of the 'reds' would only vote Tory.....
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
I think their will be an election much sooner than that. The remainers in the Tory party are close to blowing their tops.
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
I think their will be an election much sooner than that. The remainers in the Tory party are close to blowing their tops.
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
I think their will be an election much sooner than that. The remainers in the Tory party are close to blowing their tops.
I reckon the leavers are as well! Nobody is happy at the moment. I've seen some very nasty things being said about Mrs May and her handling of Brexit.
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
I think their will be an election much sooner than that. The remainers in the Tory party are close to blowing their tops.
A change of Tory leadership wouldn't force an election though, if anything I think it would make it less likely.
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
I think their will be an election much sooner than that. The remainers in the Tory party are close to blowing their tops.
A change of Tory leadership wouldn't force an election though, if anything I think it would make it less likely.
And the Tories are masters at holding on to power, seems to be their raison d'être.
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
I think their will be an election much sooner than that. The remainers in the Tory party are close to blowing their tops.
A change of Tory leadership wouldn't force an election though, if anything I think it would make it less likely.
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
I think their will be an election much sooner than that. The remainers in the Tory party are close to blowing their tops.
The Tories got it horribly wrong last year when she thought she was going to win a big majority. Since then the polls have closed to a state of neck and neck. To call an election with the state of play as it is would be foolhardy at best. They could easily find themselves in opposition. They will cling on to power as long as they possibly can which is 2022. You can bet any new Tory leader won’t be calling one either.
Fascinating. Be interesting to see how that “trend” develops. May 2022 is the next due date for an election and I doubt one will be called earlier. That’s a long time in politics.
I think their will be an election much sooner than that. The remainers in the Tory party are close to blowing their tops.
A change of Tory leadership wouldn't force an election though, if anything I think it would make it less likely.
You only have to look at the posturing when she appoints a new minister. The calibre seems irrelevant - compared to the EU views of the new minsiter - If a Brexit supporting misister is departing, the Brexiters insist they are replaced by a Brexiter for instance. Now imagine the furore if thenext prime minister was an avid Remainer or Brexiter. The reason May has remained Prime Minsister for so long is that she has a foot in both camps.
You only have to look at the posturing when she appoints a new minister. The calibre seems irrelevant - compared to the EU views of the new minsiter - If a Brexit supporting misister is departing, the Brexiters insist they are replaced by a Brexiter for instance. Now imagine the furore if thenext prime minister was an avid Remainer or Brexiter. The reason May has remained Prime Minsister for so long is that she has a foot in both camps.
Both sides seem scared that the balance might tip the other way if she was replaced.
I think May will be here until May but if the local elections are heavy defeats for the blues then she'll likely face a leadership challenge. That's not to say she'd lose any contest as I can't see any candidates waiting in the wings that will reunite the party and make it considerably better.
Either way I don't see whether she stays or goes bringing a GE like @ShootersHillGuru if anything the fear of an early general election is likely to curb any plot to oust her right now. My 2018 or 2019 bet for a general election is looking like dead money.
I tend to vote differently in local elections, looking at the individuals rather than their party or the wider parties view as to what they do or will do in government, but that might just be me.
I think there are Tory remainers who might feel that an election is a last ditch way of scuppering Brexit. It might mean the Tories losing power for a few years but they will look at the bigger picture. As we get nearer to Brexit the Tories need one side to bend a bit, but both seem very rigid in their aims.
I think there are Tory remainers who might feel that an election is a last ditch way of scuppering Brexit. It might mean the Tories losing power for a few years but they will look at the bigger picture. As we get nearer to Brexit the Tories need one side to bend a bit, but both seem very rigid in their aims.
How would a GE victory for a Brexit supporting labour party help scupper brexit though?
I think there are Tory remainers who might feel that an election is a last ditch way of scuppering Brexit. It might mean the Tories losing power for a few years but they will look at the bigger picture. As we get nearer to Brexit the Tories need one side to bend a bit, but both seem very rigid in their aims.
How would a GE victory for a Brexit supporting labour party help scupper brexit though?
I think you live more in hope than anything.
Labour will charge if public opinion does as well. I think they will call for a second referendum before the year is out.
I think there are Tory remainers who might feel that an election is a last ditch way of scuppering Brexit. It might mean the Tories losing power for a few years but they will look at the bigger picture. As we get nearer to Brexit the Tories need one side to bend a bit, but both seem very rigid in their aims.
How would a GE victory for a Brexit supporting labour party help scupper brexit though?
I think you live more in hope than anything.
Labour will charge if public opinion does as well. I think they will call for a second referendum before the year is out.
I really can't see that happening with corbyn at the healm.
I think there are Tory remainers who might feel that an election is a last ditch way of scuppering Brexit. It might mean the Tories losing power for a few years but they will look at the bigger picture. As we get nearer to Brexit the Tories need one side to bend a bit, but both seem very rigid in their aims.
How would a GE victory for a Brexit supporting labour party help scupper brexit though?
I think you live more in hope than anything.
Labour will charge if public opinion does as well. I think they will call for a second referendum before the year is out.
I really can't see that happening with corbyn at the healm.
It will more likely be a referendum on the terms of Brexit, which may include a 'remain' option.
I disagree with a second referendum, but the concept has been mentioned so many times the seed has been planted, and it would more likely be greeted by a shrug than outrage.
I think there are Tory remainers who might feel that an election is a last ditch way of scuppering Brexit. It might mean the Tories losing power for a few years but they will look at the bigger picture. As we get nearer to Brexit the Tories need one side to bend a bit, but both seem very rigid in their aims.
How would a GE victory for a Brexit supporting labour party help scupper brexit though?
I think you live more in hope than anything.
It wouldn't although an electoral reaction against Brexit may do so. I don't beieve pro remain Tories want a Labour government - they are Tories. But they will look for opportunities, not because they are disloyal so and sos but because and an election is probably the best bet for them if we are not going to have a second referendum.
How does May avoid this? Her best bet is to negotiate a very soft Brexit but this will get the goats up of the strong Brexiters in the party.
Comments
People are tired of the status quo and want big changes. That means rise in support for figures who have radical ideas or present themselves as an outsider, like Corbyn, like Macron, Sanders and even Trump in the States.
It's why Hillary lost the presidency despite the alternative IMO. She was just "more of the same" and the ordinary person is no longer accepting that...
Clinton, May & Remain ran 'more of the same'.
I think this voting tribalism is mostly prevalent in the over 50’s but even if that’s correct it’s an awful lot of votes. I’m hoping and do think that the under 50’s and certainly the under 40’s are not so entrenched in their voting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42747342
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2018/jan/30/ofsted-reception-children-michael-rosen?CMP=fb_gu
Either way I don't see whether she stays or goes bringing a GE like @ShootersHillGuru if anything the fear of an early general election is likely to curb any plot to oust her right now. My 2018 or 2019 bet for a general election is looking like dead money.
I tend to vote differently in local elections, looking at the individuals rather than their party or the wider parties view as to what they do or will do in government, but that might just be me.
I think you live more in hope than anything.
How does May avoid this? Her best bet is to negotiate a very soft Brexit but this will get the goats up of the strong Brexiters in the party.