As a boycotter, I rarely watch Charlton these days. I watched the game yesterday on TV and thought they played really well; far better than 3 years ago before I ceased attending. However I find it incomprehensibly that supporters can put money in Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and then trash him on CL at 1705pm and indeed any other time...just my opinion.
An opinion you (and others) have aired many, many times before, which inevitably leads to the same debate, with the same entrenched positions.
I'm not sure it's productive for people on either side of this issue to keep raising it, but people inevitably will. I can't be the only person that's a little tired of it now.
I guess you are one of those that do give their £25 plus to Roly at 1500hrs and then moan later about the guy - unbelievable 😎
For me what is unbelievable is that you claim to be a Charlton fan who sees boycotting as taking some sort of moral high ground. A so called Charlton fan who has not watched “us” for 3 years and after watching this game refers to the team as “them”
I am not claiming to hold any moral high ground, just simply stating a fact that I cant understand how ppl can put money into Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and bitch about him for the rest of the week - oxymoron.
You can put your own definition on the word "supporter". I dont have any need to justify my interpretation.
Like everyone else, my concern is when, if ever, is the penny going to drop with RD, that he is isn't likely going to get £65-70M.
The season isn't that far off ending. Even if we get promotion there is no certainty he will be prepared to do enough on player contract renewals to allow the club to make a decent fist of staying up. Even less so if there is no promotion. If we don't go up I can't see any logic in him retaining ownership of the club. Even if he reduces his monthly losses even further by reducing player salaries, he is even more unlikely to receive his supposed high valuation.
You watch a game like Saturday's and feel like we could with this management team and players starting to move up the leagues. Then you come right down to earth with a thud when you realise again that we are saddled with an owner with zero ambitions on the football front.
I would love for someone to come in with a bid of 70mil, Roland accepts without reading anything because he is so happy to get all his money back.
The deal goes through and everyone is shocked.
Roland looks at his account and something doesn’t quite add up.
For the first time he looks at the contract and price agreement and realises it says 70 million rupees.
We’re rid of him and there’s nothing he can do about it because this act would demonstrate his pure idiocy over the last 5 years.
I am surprised no one has done this yet.
I like it. But let’s go even further. That amount in Uzbek Som will leave Roland with £6.50. I think that’s more than fair after the way he’s treated us.
VOTV mentions an independent valuation of the land and gives figures for that.
The other assets ie player contracts, league membership and location (is being in London more desirable than Bolton or Wigan for example) are far more difficult to value.
I haven't seen the VOTV valuation but it should be the value as current use only - i.e. without planning permission for any other use.
In terms of ongoing operations, the club is losing £10m a year so it could be argued that the value of the players' contracts, league membership and 'goodwill' (in very short supply) is offset by the operational losses - unless potential growth (promotion to PL) is taken into account.
So club value zero - asset value as a stadium and training ground maybe £20m. A lot more if both sites, especially SL, could be developed, but the chances of that are remote.
Without going into all the ins and outs of it, the valuation of the land given Is £20m for The Valley and £3m for Sparrows Lane, reflecting their planning status.
VOTV mentions an independent valuation of the land and gives figures for that.
The other assets ie player contracts, league membership and location (is being in London more desirable than Bolton or Wigan for example) are far more difficult to value.
I haven't seen the VOTV valuation but it should be the value as current use only - i.e. without planning permission for any other use.
In terms of ongoing operations, the club is losing £10m a year so it could be argued that the value of the players' contracts, league membership and 'goodwill' (in very short supply) is offset by the operational losses - unless potential growth (promotion to PL) is taken into account.
So club value zero - asset value as a stadium and training ground maybe £20m. A lot more if both sites, especially SL, could be developed, but the chances of that are remote.
Without going into all the ins and outs of it, the valuation of the land given Is £20m for The Valley and £3m for Sparrows Lane, reflecting their planning status.
Then £23m is all the club is worth.
Would you even say its worth that if it costs 50% of the value to operate every year?
As a boycotter, I rarely watch Charlton these days. I watched the game yesterday on TV and thought they played really well; far better than 3 years ago before I ceased attending. However I find it incomprehensibly that supporters can put money in Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and then trash him on CL at 1705pm and indeed any other time...just my opinion.
An opinion you (and others) have aired many, many times before, which inevitably leads to the same debate, with the same entrenched positions.
I'm not sure it's productive for people on either side of this issue to keep raising it, but people inevitably will. I can't be the only person that's a little tired of it now.
I guess you are one of those that do give their £25 plus to Roly at 1500hrs and then moan later about the guy - unbelievable 😎
For me what is unbelievable is that you claim to be a Charlton fan who sees boycotting as taking some sort of moral high ground. A so called Charlton fan who has not watched “us” for 3 years and after watching this game refers to the team as “them”
I am not claiming to hold any moral high ground, just simply stating a fact that I cant understand how ppl can put money into Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and bitch about him for the rest of the week - oxymoron.
You can put your own definition on the word "supporter". I dont have any need to justify my interpretation.
Have a good day.
My view is (and always has been), each to their own. Apart that is, from those who do absolutely nothing by way of protesting, some of whom also (to their eternal shame), find it acceptable to criticise those who do. IMHO to turn a blind eye and make no effort by way of protest whatsoever is and always has been inexcusable.......to those who have taken that stance I have little or no time for.
VOTV mentions an independent valuation of the land and gives figures for that.
The other assets ie player contracts, league membership and location (is being in London more desirable than Bolton or Wigan for example) are far more difficult to value.
I haven't seen the VOTV valuation but it should be the value as current use only - i.e. without planning permission for any other use.
In terms of ongoing operations, the club is losing £10m a year so it could be argued that the value of the players' contracts, league membership and 'goodwill' (in very short supply) is offset by the operational losses - unless potential growth (promotion to PL) is taken into account.
So club value zero - asset value as a stadium and training ground maybe £20m. A lot more if both sites, especially SL, could be developed, but the chances of that are remote.
Without going into all the ins and outs of it, the valuation of the land given Is £20m for The Valley and £3m for Sparrows Lane, reflecting their planning status.
Then £23m is all the club is worth.
Would you even say its worth that if it costs 50% of the value to operate every year?
There is an opportunity value in potential future earnings based on the fact that the club is a going concern with an EFL licence and a stadium to play in. My view is that this potential just about mitigates the current operating losses.
Tesla haven't made a profit in 15 years yet their market value is $49bn!
I would love for someone to come in with a bid of 70mil, Roland accepts without reading anything because he is so happy to get all his money back.
The deal goes through and everyone is shocked.
Roland looks at his account and something doesn’t quite add up.
For the first time he looks at the contract and price agreement and realises it says 70 million rupees.
We’re rid of him and there’s nothing he can do about it because this act would demonstrate his pure idiocy over the last 5 years.
I am surprised no one has done this yet.
I like it. But let’s go even further. That amount in Uzbek Som will leave Roland with £6.50. I think that’s more than fair after the way he’s treated us.
Yes, I like it. Couldn’t agree more.
That’s now an Indian takeover and a Uzbekistan takeover.
VOTV mentions an independent valuation of the land and gives figures for that.
The other assets ie player contracts, league membership and location (is being in London more desirable than Bolton or Wigan for example) are far more difficult to value.
I haven't seen the VOTV valuation but it should be the value as current use only - i.e. without planning permission for any other use.
In terms of ongoing operations, the club is losing £10m a year so it could be argued that the value of the players' contracts, league membership and 'goodwill' (in very short supply) is offset by the operational losses - unless potential growth (promotion to PL) is taken into account.
So club value zero - asset value as a stadium and training ground maybe £20m. A lot more if both sites, especially SL, could be developed, but the chances of that are remote.
Without going into all the ins and outs of it, the valuation of the land given Is £20m for The Valley and £3m for Sparrows Lane, reflecting their planning status.
Then £23m is all the club is worth.
Would you even say its worth that if it costs 50% of the value to operate every year?
There is an opportunity value in potential future earnings based on the fact that the club is a going concern with an EFL licence and a stadium to play in. My view is that this potential just about mitigates the current operating losses.
Tesla haven't made a profit in 15 years yet their market value is $49bn!
It's only a going concern with "owner funding". This is a much bigger problem than just RD and us. How long can 80 plus clubs keep being signed off as going concerns when they are all either 1 relegation or an owner no longer prepared to sub them away from going out of business?
As a boycotter, I rarely watch Charlton these days. I watched the game yesterday on TV and thought they played really well; far better than 3 years ago before I ceased attending. However I find it incomprehensibly that supporters can put money in Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and then trash him on CL at 1705pm and indeed any other time...just my opinion.
An opinion you (and others) have aired many, many times before, which inevitably leads to the same debate, with the same entrenched positions.
I'm not sure it's productive for people on either side of this issue to keep raising it, but people inevitably will. I can't be the only person that's a little tired of it now.
I guess you are one of those that do give their £25 plus to Roly at 1500hrs and then moan later about the guy - unbelievable 😎
For me what is unbelievable is that you claim to be a Charlton fan who sees boycotting as taking some sort of moral high ground. A so called Charlton fan who has not watched “us” for 3 years and after watching this game refers to the team as “them”
I am not claiming to hold any moral high ground, just simply stating a fact that I cant understand how ppl can put money into Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and bitch about him for the rest of the week - oxymoron.
You can put your own definition on the word "supporter". I dont have any need to justify my interpretation.
Have a good day.
Im not going to criticise you @PeterGage nor question your Charlton credentials as I know what they are and I have far too much respect for you and others.
And I also understand your argument. Indeed I never renewed my season ticket a couple of seasons ago as I too felt a fraud through protesting and then paying my money.
But with one side of your argument there are also other sides.
Would you not equally agree that that £25 that ‘lines Roland’s pockets’ also goes towards paying Lyle Taylor’s wages, Josh Cullen and Bielik’s loan fees, and the wages of everyone of those players that busted an absolute gut in our shirt on Saturday?
That it pays Tracey Leaburn’s wages and a whole host of long serving staff that have been here long before Roland and who many equally can’t stand what he’s done to the club?
That if more people paid their £25 than currently are the club would have a better chance of securing Joe Aribo as a Charlton player for the next 3 years?
And finally, that the badge, The Valley and heart and spirit of being ‘Charlton’ is so much more than a distant overseas man that currently owns it at this specific point in time?
It’s never straight forward and there is no convincing argument either way imo. I can’t only speak for myself and say I got back back into it and I am so so pleased that I did as I’ve loved seeing the commitment and football played by our players, particularly since Bowyer has taken over.
As a boycotter, I rarely watch Charlton these days. I watched the game yesterday on TV and thought they played really well; far better than 3 years ago before I ceased attending. However I find it incomprehensibly that supporters can put money in Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and then trash him on CL at 1705pm and indeed any other time...just my opinion.
An opinion you (and others) have aired many, many times before, which inevitably leads to the same debate, with the same entrenched positions.
I'm not sure it's productive for people on either side of this issue to keep raising it, but people inevitably will. I can't be the only person that's a little tired of it now.
I guess you are one of those that do give their £25 plus to Roly at 1500hrs and then moan later about the guy - unbelievable 😎
For me what is unbelievable is that you claim to be a Charlton fan who sees boycotting as taking some sort of moral high ground. A so called Charlton fan who has not watched “us” for 3 years and after watching this game refers to the team as “them”
I am not claiming to hold any moral high ground, just simply stating a fact that I cant understand how ppl can put money into Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and bitch about him for the rest of the week - oxymoron.
You can put your own definition on the word "supporter". I dont have any need to justify my interpretation.
Have a good day.
Im not going to criticise you @PeterGage nor question your Charlton credentials as I know what they are and I have far too much respect for you and others.
And I also understand your argument. Indeed I never renewed my season ticket a couple of seasons ago as I too felt a fraud through protesting and then paying my money.
But with one side of your argument there are also other sides.
Would you not equally agree that that £25 that ‘lines Roland’s pockets’ also goes towards paying Lyle Taylor’s wages, Josh Cullen and Bielik’s loan fees, and the wages of everyone of those players that busted an absolute gut in our shirt on Saturday?
That it pays Tracey Leaburn’s wages and a whole host of long serving staff that have been here long before Roland and who many equally can’t stand what he’s done to the club? That if more people paid their £25 than currently are the club would have a better chance of securing Joe Aribo as a Charlton player for the next 3 years?
And finally, that the badge, The Valley and heart and spirit of being ‘Charlton’ is so much more than a distant overseas man that currently owns it at this specific point in time?
It’s never straight forward and there is no convincing argument either way imo. I can’t only speak for myself and say I got back back into it and I am so so pleased that I did as I’ve loved seeing the commitment and football played by our players, particularly since Bowyer has taken over.
It won’t even be a consideration. Even capacity crowds would not eliminate the current operating loss and RD isn’t going to put in a penny more than he needs to keep the club going for a sale. He would just pocket the extra money and laugh at at anyone who had believed otherwise.
Roland will continue to fund us to the bare minimum and nobody can force him to sell. He is the only person owed money here and he's charging interest on it.
Anybody can see our squad will be ripped apart at the end of the season, but the ELF won't do anything until we can't fulfil our fixtures, but there'll always be a pro football who wants to play football for Charlton.
We have an idiot for an owner, but we are still above 67 other teams in the Football League!
As a boycotter, I rarely watch Charlton these days. I watched the game yesterday on TV and thought they played really well; far better than 3 years ago before I ceased attending. However I find it incomprehensibly that supporters can put money in Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and then trash him on CL at 1705pm and indeed any other time...just my opinion.
An opinion you (and others) have aired many, many times before, which inevitably leads to the same debate, with the same entrenched positions.
I'm not sure it's productive for people on either side of this issue to keep raising it, but people inevitably will. I can't be the only person that's a little tired of it now.
I guess you are one of those that do give their £25 plus to Roly at 1500hrs and then moan later about the guy - unbelievable 😎
For me what is unbelievable is that you claim to be a Charlton fan who sees boycotting as taking some sort of moral high ground. A so called Charlton fan who has not watched “us” for 3 years and after watching this game refers to the team as “them”
I am not claiming to hold any moral high ground, just simply stating a fact that I cant understand how ppl can put money into Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and bitch about him for the rest of the week - oxymoron.
You can put your own definition on the word "supporter". I dont have any need to justify my interpretation.
Have a good day.
Im not going to criticise you @PeterGage nor question your Charlton credentials as I know what they are and I have far too much respect for you and others.
And I also understand your argument. Indeed I never renewed my season ticket a couple of seasons ago as I too felt a fraud through protesting and then paying my money.
But with one side of your argument there are also other sides.
Would you not equally agree that that £25 that ‘lines Roland’s pockets’ also goes towards paying Lyle Taylor’s wages, Josh Cullen and Bielik’s loan fees, and the wages of everyone of those players that busted an absolute gut in our shirt on Saturday?
That it pays Tracey Leaburn’s wages and a whole host of long serving staff that have been here long before Roland and who many equally can’t stand what he’s done to the club?
That if more people paid their £25 than currently are the club would have a better chance of securing Joe Aribo as a Charlton player for the next 3 years?
And finally, that the badge, The Valley and heart and spirit of being ‘Charlton’ is so much more than a distant overseas man that currently owns it at this specific point in time?
It’s never straight forward and there is no convincing argument either way imo. I can’t only speak for myself and say I got back back into it and I am so so pleased that I did as I’ve loved seeing the commitment and football played by our players, particularly since Bowyer has taken over.
Thanks @AFKABartram for your balanced views, which deserve a response.
I accept that gate money goes towards funding our players and potentially funding the retention of Joe Aribo. However, from my perception, the bigger goal is to see the back of Roly and I believe reducing his income accelerates his departure. I understand however that others may not share my view.
I did not criticise those that still go, although I cannot understand their stance. My point was that I find it unbelievable that some on here puts money into Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and slags him off on here from 1700 onwards. Surely that is an oxymoron!
As a boycotter, I rarely watch Charlton these days. I watched the game yesterday on TV and thought they played really well; far better than 3 years ago before I ceased attending. However I find it incomprehensibly that supporters can put money in Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and then trash him on CL at 1705pm and indeed any other time...just my opinion.
An opinion you (and others) have aired many, many times before, which inevitably leads to the same debate, with the same entrenched positions.
I'm not sure it's productive for people on either side of this issue to keep raising it, but people inevitably will. I can't be the only person that's a little tired of it now.
I guess you are one of those that do give their £25 plus to Roly at 1500hrs and then moan later about the guy - unbelievable 😎
For me what is unbelievable is that you claim to be a Charlton fan who sees boycotting as taking some sort of moral high ground. A so called Charlton fan who has not watched “us” for 3 years and after watching this game refers to the team as “them”
I am not claiming to hold any moral high ground, just simply stating a fact that I cant understand how ppl can put money into Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and bitch about him for the rest of the week - oxymoron.
You can put your own definition on the word "supporter". I dont have any need to justify my interpretation.
Have a good day.
But new owners will be open to scrutiny by fans, and the fact that they’re paying their £25 won’t alter that.
I don't agree with some of the assumptions people make about the cost being absolutely minimum to keep the club going. I also don't agree that RD actively doesn't want the club to get promoted. What he does want, God only knows, I don't even think RD knows himself.
If he wanted to reduce the costs, below what they are now, he could have done so quite easily. Selling BFG in the summer for example.
If he was scared of promotion we won't have brought any players in in January, this season or last. Was it enough, no.
Why did he sanction the signing of Taylor, who I assume is on a good wedge for league 1? A redline for Bowyer? If Lee had walked over it 20 other people would be queuing up for the job.
I would hazard a guess that he, and his "advisors" feel that the wage bill, and calibre of players, is sufficient to "challenge for promotion". If we had signed another striker in January it wouldn't guarantee us promotion, neither has not signing one end any chance.
I think that this is where people like RD, Mike Ashley and Alan Sugar struggle with understanding football. How much do you have to spend to guarantee anything in football? These people make calculated risks everyday and it just doesn't work the same in football. Sunderland spent £4 million on a striker, he may score the goal that gets them promoted, equally he could miss the deciding penalty in the play off final it's no guarantee.
Equally he isn't running a player farm as we haven't signed any young players to develop and sell on since Page and JFC.
The more I think about it the less clear it becomes. What ever he is trying to do he isn't doing it very well is he?
Comments
Probably some teenage spotty twirp who plays minecraft all day.
The deal goes through and everyone is shocked.
Roland looks at his account and something doesn’t quite add up.
For the first time he looks at the contract and price agreement and realises it says 70 million rupees.
We’re rid of him and there’s nothing he can do about it because this act would demonstrate his pure idiocy over the last 5 years.
I am surprised no one has done this yet.
You can put your own definition on the word "supporter". I dont have any need to justify my interpretation.
Have a good day.
The season isn't that far off ending. Even if we get promotion there is no certainty he will be prepared to do enough on player contract renewals to allow the club to make a decent fist of staying up. Even less so if there is no promotion. If we don't go up I can't see any logic in him retaining ownership of the club. Even if he reduces his monthly losses even further by reducing player salaries, he is even more unlikely to receive his supposed high valuation.
You watch a game like Saturday's and feel like we could with this management team and players starting to move up the leagues. Then you come right down to earth with a thud when you realise again that we are saddled with an owner with zero ambitions on the football front.
23 million value on Valley and Sparrows Lane because of football status.
8 millions lost over 12 months on running costs of Cafc (estimate has been mentioned 6 to 10 million)
8 × 5 years of RD tenure= 40 million.
40 + 23 = 63 million + players values which is low because Aribo is out of Contract plus loan players are just on loan !
2 million or so value on Taylor + Sarr (under contract 19/20 season) and we have a 65 million price tag in the mind of Roland Duchatelet.
(7 million ex directors payment is payable on premier status so plenty of wriggle room there)
Then £23m is all the club is worth.
Apart that is, from those who do absolutely nothing by way of protesting, some of whom also (to their eternal shame), find it acceptable to criticise those who do.
IMHO to turn a blind eye and make no effort by way of protest whatsoever is and always has been inexcusable.......to those who have taken that stance I have little or no time for.
First player they’d try to sign is Mo Salah.
There is an opportunity value in potential future earnings based on the fact that the club is a going concern with an EFL licence and a stadium to play in. My view is that this potential just about mitigates the current operating losses.
Tesla haven't made a profit in 15 years yet their market value is $49bn!
That’s now an Indian takeover and a Uzbekistan takeover.
HI is going to wet his pants!
Badooom......tish!
And I also understand your argument. Indeed I never renewed my season ticket a couple of seasons ago as I too felt a fraud through protesting and then paying my money.
But with one side of your argument there are also other sides.
Would you not equally agree that that £25 that ‘lines Roland’s pockets’ also goes towards paying Lyle Taylor’s wages, Josh Cullen and Bielik’s loan fees, and the wages of everyone of those players that busted an absolute gut in our shirt on Saturday?
That it pays Tracey Leaburn’s wages and a whole host of long serving staff that have been here long before Roland and who many equally can’t stand what he’s done to the club?
That if more people paid their £25 than currently are the club would have a better chance of securing Joe Aribo as a Charlton player for the next 3 years?
And finally, that the badge, The Valley and heart and spirit of being ‘Charlton’ is so much more than a distant overseas man that currently owns it at this specific point in time?
It’s never straight forward and there is no convincing argument either way imo. I can’t only speak for myself and say I got back back into it and I am so so pleased that I did as I’ve loved seeing the commitment and football played by our players, particularly since Bowyer has taken over.
Roland will continue to fund us to the bare minimum and nobody can force him to sell. He is the only person owed money here and he's charging interest on it.
Anybody can see our squad will be ripped apart at the end of the season, but the ELF won't do anything until we can't fulfil our fixtures, but there'll always be a pro football who wants to play football for Charlton.
We have an idiot for an owner, but we are still above 67 other teams in the Football League!
I accept that gate money goes towards funding our players and potentially funding the retention of Joe Aribo. However, from my perception, the bigger goal is to see the back of Roly and I believe reducing his income accelerates his departure. I understand however that others may not share my view.
I did not criticise those that still go, although I cannot understand their stance. My point was that I find it unbelievable that some on here puts money into Roly's pocket at 3pm on a Saturday and slags him off on here from 1700 onwards. Surely that is an oxymoron!
Have a good day
If he wanted to reduce the costs, below what they are now, he could have done so quite easily. Selling BFG in the summer for example.
If he was scared of promotion we won't have brought any players in in January, this season or last. Was it enough, no.
Why did he sanction the signing of Taylor, who I assume is on a good wedge for league 1? A redline for Bowyer? If Lee had walked over it 20 other people would be queuing up for the job.
I would hazard a guess that he, and his "advisors" feel that the wage bill, and calibre of players, is sufficient to "challenge for promotion". If we had signed another striker in January it wouldn't guarantee us promotion, neither has not signing one end any chance.
I think that this is where people like RD, Mike Ashley and Alan Sugar struggle with understanding football. How much do you have to spend to guarantee anything in football? These people make calculated risks everyday and it just doesn't work the same in football. Sunderland spent £4 million on a striker, he may score the goal that gets them promoted, equally he could miss the deciding penalty in the play off final it's no guarantee.
Equally he isn't running a player farm as we haven't signed any young players to develop and sell on since Page and JFC.
The more I think about it the less clear it becomes. What ever he is trying to do he isn't doing it very well is he?