Just re-thought my earlier post, @cafcfan. In bottle problems doesn't really make much sense. What I meant was the problem was present in the bottle at the Chateau or production facility. Corking develops over time, but the compound that causes it TCA can only be introduced in the winery or on a cork before bottling. It can't go through an intact cork in the bottle.
Varying problems in storage especially through extreme heat variance can cut a wine removing complexities, but a good wine in my experience - at least in it's youth - will still be drinkable just bland: Not something you'd particularly want to drink, but something that can be used particularly in cooking by adding flavours. You have to expose wine to some quite extreme temperature variations over a short period to do this though.
When a wine's disgusting, it's often a technical bottling issue: Of course it can be just shit quality wine, but you rarely get that imported in the UK now. That can be a mistake on the production line and letting in bacteria, or a natural wine maker not using sulphites leading to sewage cabbage notes: Yes natural wines have improved, but still too many have this problem and 10 years ago...
Apart from the vintner leaving a wine box underneath a pile for years, and the vintage going way past it's best, rarely is it the vintners fault.
Just re-thought my earlier post, @cafcfan. In bottle problems doesn't really make much sense. What I meant was the problem was present in the bottle at the Chateau or production facility. Corking develops over time, but the compound that causes it TCA can only be introduced in the winery or on a cork before bottling. It can't go through an intact cork in the bottle.
Varying problems in storage especially through extreme heat variance can cut a wine removing complexities, but a good wine in my experience - at least in it's youth - will still be drinkable just bland: Not something you'd particularly want to drink, but something that can be used particularly in cooking by adding flavours. You have to expose wine to some quite extreme temperature variations over a short period to do this though.
When a wine's disgusting, it's often a technical bottling issue: Of course it can be just shit quality wine, but you rarely get that imported in the UK now. That can be a mistake on the production line and letting in bacteria, or a natural wine maker not using sulphites leading to sewage cabbage notes: Yes natural wines have improved, but still too many have this problem and 10 years ago...
Apart from the vintner leaving a wine box underneath a pile for years, and the vintage going way past it's best, rarely is it the vintners fault.
One of the big wineries not just in Kent but the UK is Chapel Down. I have never had a good bottle from there, at least not up to the reputation of the place, I have a nasty feeling I need to break into 3 figures to get a goodun.
Me and her are going to try one in Biddenden a bit later on. And no doubt leave a few quid poorer
I feel the need to give the opposite view on Chapel Down. Their sparkling wines are excellent, IMHO. Their beer offshoot: Curious Brewing is also well worth a look; my favourite brand being the Porter.
I should declare an interest as I have some shares which entitle me to discounts on the wine and the beer, and I played a small part in the project to build the new brewery in Ashford. Any other views out there?
It was always mentioned in Wine training, and indeed in Jancis Robinson's books, that Bulgaria sold the most wine bottles in the 80's in the UK. What's forgotten about that fact is that the amount of bottles exported from Bulgaria in the 80's far exceeded what the country could produce. The wine was predominately South African just traded through Bulgaria to avoid Apartheid sanctions. By the early 90's South Africa production supposedly tripled within a couple of vintages.
Now you've got me all nostalgic for the 1980's Bulgarian Cab Sauv.
Remember it hit the market very suddenly, the first 2 years were the best. Packed full of flavour I had never tasted anything like it, ok perhaps it lacked balance, but at £2.99 it was a revelation. Had some structure to it too.
So Bulgaria exported far more wine than the country could produce. (Colin Tat, above).
Similarly, many years ago I heard from a wine retailer that more Beaujolais Nouveau was drunk in the Paris region alone than the total production of Beaujolais area.
Also in the 70's/80's. In that era a lot of publicity was generated about the first delivery of B's Nouveau to reach London. A parachutist was used one year and it made the 6pm news I remember!
Drunk a Chenin Blanc from New Zealand tonight. Millton Te Arai. Seems to be around 20 pounds in the UK. It was lovely. Minerals, lime, melon and pear. Very smooth and very drinkable.
Those who would usually stick to a Sauvignon Blanc or Chardonnay, Chenin is worth exploring, just make sure it's dry as there is a sweet variety.
Would like some reccos on USA wines (from a list, see below). I don't have much experience of them since out here we have until recently only had the big brand junk.
However a mate has given me a tip for a guy locally who has focused on importing from there. If any of you are USA wine fans I'd really appreciate it if you can shout if you see any of your favourite vineyards from the list on his website. He has a longer list if you hover over the drop-down menu "vinařstvi".
At the lower end M&S out here offer a fair few US bottles in case anyone has a good experience from that range.
A very good friend gifted me a bottle from a Napa vineyard called Clark-Claudon, and it was damn good, although it would seem from Cellar Tracker to be in the £40 range.
I was trying without success to look back and find the name of @NapaAddick vineyard, although I recall he was talking about a price level of £150, which is a *bit* above my pay grade, even if one could get a bottle out this way.
And while I'm here...Coravin...anybody use it? Worth the money compared with the hand-pump vacuum stoppers I have?
I was reading an interesting Jancis Robinson article recently where she said that one should always keep opened wine in the fridge, and take the reds out when you want to drink them, as they will warm up fairly quickly. She also said that whites keep longer than reds.
I love Coravin and it is a (somewhat expensive, a bit pretentious - but worth it) game changer for those who like wine.
The pumps only take out air from the bottle AFTER the bottle is opened. But the air has already been uptaken into the wine at that point (that glug-glug sound you hear when pouring.) The pumps just take out excess air left over but the die is cast in terms of oxidation. I think pumps work well if you plan to finish the bottle the next day but not more than that.
Coravin fills the bottle with inert gas BEFORE wine is removed, meaning it stays mostly protected the whole time. It's not perfect because the inert gas is also absorbed into the wine and the former vacuum of the bottle does get a small amount of air in it over time. But properly used a Coravin bottle can last many weeks, although I find that it tastes best within ten days.
Here is how I tell my buyers and other drinkers to change up how they drink, with a Coravin. Double or triple the price per bottle you spend and then have one glass per dinner of that wine over 1-2 weeks. You will spend the same amount of money over time, enjoy much better wine with each glass and up your experience of wine in general.
Would like some reccos on USA wines (from a list, see below). I don't have much experience of them since out here we have until recently only had the big brand junk.
However a mate has given me a tip for a guy locally who has focused on importing from there. If any of you are USA wine fans I'd really appreciate it if you can shout if you see any of your favourite vineyards from the list on his website. He has a longer list if you hover over the drop-down menu "vinařstvi".
At the lower end M&S out here offer a fair few US bottles in case anyone has a good experience from that range.
A very good friend gifted me a bottle from a Napa vineyard called Clark-Claudon, and it was damn good, although it would seem from Cellar Tracker to be in the £40 range.
I was trying without success to look back and find the name of @NapaAddick vineyard, although I recall he was talking about a price level of £150, which is a *bit* above my pay grade, even if one could get a bottle out this way.
The trouble with mid-range (£15-£30, which happens to be my usual range) wines from the USA is that the American market is so big, they don't really need to export. You can find good US wines here but for me a NZ pinot noir will usually be better value than one from Oregon and there are lots of good value cab sav and Bordeaux blends available compared to Califonian wines.
@NapaAddick very good, thanks! The lady in the winebar I was talking with about Coravin also said it makes more sense for higher quality wine, but you have made the point more precisely.
@NapaAddick very good, thanks! The lady in the winebar I was talking with about Coravin also said it makes more sense for higher quality wine, but you have made the point more precisely.
Can you use it for sparkling wine?
Their web site says they have launched a new product for sparkling wine
But once a bottle is opened don’t you just finish it?
I have received this as a thank you gift which was hand delivered directly from California so Im going to save it for a proper Sunday. Do not drink much US wine so I am looking forward to trying this.
But once a bottle is opened don’t you just finish it?
I have received this as a thank you gift which was hand delivered directly from California so Im going to save it for a proper Sunday. Do not drink much US wine so I am looking forward to trying this.
Ah, well, depends on your capacity. My wife likes wine, and she's better at tasting and describing it than me, but she lately finds she gets a bad reaction - might be nitrates, but we don't know, so generally it's "just a glass. Which then leaves me with the task of knocking off at least 0.6 litres; not that I shirk the challenge, but as a perennial lightweight I often suffer next morning. Or we might want "just a glass' especially midweek. And out here at least, half bottles of anything decent are impossible to come by. The other thing is that if you have a nice meal with a starter it's unlikely that one bottle will be a match for both dishes.
For a number of years now I have been aware of white grape vines being grown and harvested in Shoreham (Kent that is) alongside the river at the rear of the church. Not a huge amount it must be said but interesting none-the-less. Is the long term intention to open a winery there or are they being grown for an establishment elsewhere?
Yep been there for lunch a few times - decent pizzas. You can take your dog as well.
Short walk back to the station taking in a couple of boozers on the way back. Last time we went, we stayed in the boozer till closing time, after an open mic night I think and then randomly a local came in offering loads of freshly baked bread to everyone. Got a cab home with a nice crusty bloomer!
Yep been there for lunch a few times - decent pizzas. You can take your dog as well.
Short walk back to the station taking in a couple of boozers on the way back. Last time we went, we stayed in the boozer till closing time, after an open mic night I think and then randomly a local came in offering loads of freshly baked bread to everyone. Got a cab home with a nice crusty bloomer!
Well well well, I never knew that. Next time I’m down south I might give it a try……but it will have to be a train home!
I often get a bad reaction as well - normally after about 3 bottles.
You’re a better man than me having “just a glass”. It’s like going to the pub for “just a pint” - impossible!
To be honest, it's usually my wife who manages just a glass. If I start, I need to continue. That's why I never drink lunchtimes, nor a "pint after work" not that I do any work nowadays . The reality is that if there is wine left in the bottle I think it is a terrible waste as I tell myself the vacuum pump won't keep it good, so I might as well drink it. I'm hoping Coravin might be the answer. The other thing with my drinking regime is, I do generally manage to go dry Sunday-Thursday, but Saturday is a typicl evening for decent meal with wine. If I open a bottle then, and Coravin would keep it decent until beginning of next weekend, that could be a game-changer. Sometimes
We are off to Carr Taylor vineyard Saturday week (we went this time last year), me the wife, sister in law and two nieces.....afternoon tea, wine tasting and self guided tour.
My new favourite red. Lovely stuff. A little sweet for some tastes maybe but very easy to drink. It’s got an old vine version for an extra couple of quid that is superb.
Comments
Varying problems in storage especially through extreme heat variance can cut a wine removing complexities, but a good wine in my experience - at least in it's youth - will still be drinkable just bland: Not something you'd particularly want to drink, but something that can be used particularly in cooking by adding flavours. You have to expose wine to some quite extreme temperature variations over a short period to do this though.
When a wine's disgusting, it's often a technical bottling issue: Of course it can be just shit quality wine, but you rarely get that imported in the UK now. That can be a mistake on the production line and letting in bacteria, or a natural wine maker not using sulphites leading to sewage cabbage notes: Yes natural wines have improved, but still too many have this problem and 10 years ago...
Apart from the vintner leaving a wine box underneath a pile for years, and the vintage going way past it's best, rarely is it the vintners fault.
Me and her are going to try one in Biddenden a bit later on. And no doubt leave a few quid poorer
Remember it hit the market very suddenly, the first 2 years were the best. Packed full of flavour I had never tasted anything like it, ok perhaps it lacked balance, but at £2.99 it was a revelation.
Had some structure to it too.
Similarly, many years ago I heard from a wine retailer that more Beaujolais Nouveau was drunk in the Paris region alone than the total production of Beaujolais area.
Also in the 70's/80's.
In that era a lot of publicity was generated about the first delivery of B's Nouveau to reach London.
A parachutist was used one year and it made the 6pm news I remember!
Those who would usually stick to a Sauvignon Blanc or Chardonnay, Chenin is worth exploring, just make sure it's dry as there is a sweet variety.
Had a bottle yesterday.......amazing value I thought. You can get it for about £8 a bottle.
What's a good Jewish wine?
I wanna go to Miami!
However a mate has given me a tip for a guy locally who has focused on importing from there. If any of you are USA wine fans I'd really appreciate it if you can shout if you see any of your favourite vineyards from the list on his website. He has a longer list if you hover over the drop-down menu "vinařstvi".
At the lower end M&S out here offer a fair few US bottles in case anyone has a good experience from that range.
A very good friend gifted me a bottle from a Napa vineyard called Clark-Claudon, and it was damn good, although it would seem from Cellar Tracker to be in the £40 range.
I was trying without success to look back and find the name of @NapaAddick vineyard, although I recall he was talking about a price level of £150, which is a *bit* above my pay grade, even if one could get a bottle out this way.
I was reading an interesting Jancis Robinson article recently where she said that one should always keep opened wine in the fridge, and take the reds out when you want to drink them, as they will warm up fairly quickly. She also said that whites keep longer than reds.
https://www.vivino.com/GB/en/babcock-winery-and-vineyards-pinot-noir-santa-barbara-county/w/1648542?year=2016
Is the long term intention to open a winery there or are they being grown for an establishment elsewhere?
Wine on Tap By WineLab
Albarino, NZ Sauv etc all available.
Next time I’m down south I might give it a try……but it will have to be a train home!