He will never, ever abandon 4-2-3-1. It's his thing. It's one of the reasons we were relegated and had a poor start to the season - that Robinson is a stubborn tactician and will not and can not adapt his tactics to suit the opposition. Even if you have no holding midfielders available, he will still find a couple of poor souls to play there. Good luck doing well under this formation without a decent lone striker - we only got promoted from League 1 because we had Benik Afobe and Will Grigg rotating as the lone striker and both were 20+ goal players.
Basically, he'll buy, beg and borrow to try and get players to fit his system, and if he doesn't then he'll still play it anyway. You are stuck with it until he goes unfortunately.
To put things into perspective - Robbie Neilson our new manager has come in and completely overhauled our squad, has changed our formation to suit the opposition and we've been very competitive since he took over (losing by the odd goal, but also had some impressive wins scoring 4 v Posh away and 5 at home to Northampton). This is with 90% of the same squad he inherited from Robinson. Since Neilson took over in early-December we've played 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3 and a 4-4-2 diamond.
To summarise, if you have decent players, particuarly a good lone striker, and two good holding midfielders, it will work well. But otherwise, it's the luck of the draw.
The reason I am protesting is that the formation is not the real problem. Otherwise I'd protest against Robinson, but he has both hands tied behind his back by my reckoning!
He's hardly had long in the job for christ's sake. Get off Robinson's back.
I agree to an extent, however his insistence to play in a formation that is clearly not suited to the players he has at his disposal is naive at best and at worst incompetent.
Any manager worth his sort makes the most of what he's got, I don't believe that would make us a top 6 side necessarily but we'd be better placed than we are now.
He's had time enough with the players, he's bought in a handful and cleared out a handful supposedly all his decisions......
If that's true (which a lot of us doubt) then he's at least largely to blame for the recent results.
Slightly in his defence we all know that no manager will be successful under the current ownership but he should be doing better.
I'm sure he's only using it because he thinks he needs to look a trendy modern coach using the latest system. Someone tell him he's behind the times. Guardiola uses 4-1-2-3, with five attacking players, Zidane also at Real, as did Wenger at Sutton last night, Montella at AC Milan, Sarri at Napoli, Mihailovic at Torino, Puel at Southampton, Lambert has already adopted it at Wolves, Jokanovic at Fulham, Silva at Hull, McLaren at Derby, have all switched to 4-1-2-3.
Robbo needs to liven up, he's looking like a dinosaur.
However in all seriousness, the system should fit the players. Conte has proved that this season at Chelsea by switching to 3-4-3, after starting with 4-2-3-1. PSG used 4-2-3-1 to beat Barca 4-0 last week, who are 4-3-3, and have been for a number of seasons. So 4-2-3-1 can still be very effective. Either you sign players to fit a system or chose a system to fit what you have.
@Tutt-Tutt as arguably the most football knowledgeable bloke on here what system do YOU think suits us?
He's hardly had long in the job for christ's sake. Get off Robinson's back.
What he's not been a football manager long enough to learn that there is more than one formation available to him and that shoe horning several players into the same one formation every game regardless of their suitability to it may not always be the best idea?
So leading from this, or should we start a new thread? What is the correct formation? It clearly isn't working he needs to change it, but this doesnt look likely.
My team: Rudd Solly, Tex/ Baur / Chicksen (Baur would be dropped if Pearce gets fit) Byrne , Crofts, JFC, Holmes Malvidi/ Magdennis
or Solly/ tex/ Baur/ Chicksen Crofts/ Konsa/ JFC Holmes/ Magdennis/ Malvidi - Aribo for either wingers
The problem i see its pretty much the same team, but if we just shift to 442 or even a diamond we would look better.
He's hardly had long in the job for christ's sake. Get off Robinson's back.
You're right in a way but he must be approaching or past Slade's number of games now?
And Slade was praised and thanked for the changes he made off the field. On that basis Robinson has already under-performed for longer than Slade did and he is slagging off his players in the media and Slade has one bad result after a good run...
However in all seriousness, the system should fit the players. Conte has proved that this season at Chelsea by switching to 3-4-3, after starting with 4-2-3-1. PSG used 4-2-3-1 to beat Barca 4-0 last week, who are 4-3-3, and have been for a number of seasons. So 4-2-3-1 can still be very effective. Either you sign players to fit a system or chose a system to fit what you have.
This - you have to play the game that most suits the players you've got ( a la Nugent ) , not try to play a system that doesn't suit the players around you with the ones you're stuck with and who can't play the style you want.
He's hardly had long in the job for christ's sake. Get off Robinson's back.
You're right in a way but he must be approaching or past Slade's number of games now?
Maybe, but using number of games served by any of Roland's head coaches managers as a gauge for sensible length of managerial term is like judging your IQ against Joey Essex.
So leading from this, or should we start a new thread? What is the correct formation? It clearly isn't working he needs to change it, but this doesnt look likely.
My team: Rudd Solly, Tex/ Baur / Chicksen (Baur would be dropped if Pearce gets fit) Byrne , Crofts, JFC, Holmes Malvidi/ Magdennis
or Solly/ tex/ Baur/ Chicksen Crofts/ Konsa/ JFC Holmes/ Magdennis/ Malvidi - Aribo for either wingers
The problem i see its pretty much the same team, but if we just shift to 442 or even a diamond we would look better.
As long as we lack a number 10, speedy overlapping full backs and a mobile defensive midfielder 4-4-2 is probably our best bet, sometimes switching to 4-3-3 to match up in midfield if the opposition is threatening to overrun us. We've got some decent strikers in Magennis, Watt, Mavididi and Novak, all of whom benefit from not playing on their own, a winger in Holmes who can both provide creativity and support his full back to a certain extent and, in theory, a very good back line. Our defenders have looked rubbish partially because our hodgepodge midfield doesn't know how to provide cover in this 4-2-3-1 and we're jamming players into the system who don't fit. Holmes isn't a 10, Watt isn't a winger, Magennis shouldn't be shoved out wide when we make subs, Crofts isn't able to cover enough ground in a midfield two and JFC is probably very confused about what his role actually is as it changes every game. A fit Kashi would probably be the answer to a lot of problems but I don't think he actually exists anymore so there's no point in actually counting him. We just don't have the depth to try anything fancy.
This could work as it means that the defence is strong, but also has two wingers who know how to cover their full backs when out of possession. JFC (or Ulvestad if he's still alive) is free to try and start moves and pick passes as Konsa is mobile enough to cover any gaps he leaves and knows how to break up play. I've always found it odd that we use him as a midfield shuttler and have Crofts as the shield, but if you're trying to force your team to fit a system then there aren't a lot of options for Karl. JFC is used to playing deep enough that without the ball he won't go missing in the midfield battle. Up front you've got Magennis as an out ball and a willing runner. Watt should be able to operate in the space Josh and the wingers create and be able to run at defences from an advanced position, which is his best trait. Magennis will also have the role of smashing Watt in the nads every time he decides to drop ridiculously deep to pick up the ball like a petulant 9 year old. It's not perfect and it's old fashioned but it suits our squad and allows our best players to play in their best roles. We can always add Crofts or Aribo into the midfield if we're being overrun. Robinson needs to realise that slavish devotion to a system doesn't work if you can't bring in all the players you want to suit it. Conte realised he didn't have the players to do what Mourinho had wanted early on, van Gaal attempting to force a 3 at the back situation onto United didn't work, Karanka is drowning at the bottom of the Premier League because he won't adapt his formation under any circumstances, and these are all managers with a bit of money and owners willing to back them. Robinson has no bloody chance of sticking to a formation when there's random Chelsea loanee children turning up in place of star players and some work experience kid on his laptop doing the scouting
Conte can impose his system on Chelsea because he has world class players all over the pitch and especially in Kante someone who does the job of two players.
We don't have that quality of player, or the individual brilliance needed to break down defences, especially since the sale of Lookman. Thus we tend to look very predictable going forward, as rival managers know exactly how we are going to line up. Similarly, they know how to attack us, as they know where we are vulnerable at the back.
With Solly out, KR has talked of playing Byrne at RB. Surely this is an ideal time (if Konsa is fit) to play 3 at the back instead, with Page/Chicksen and Byrne as the wing backs.
Sampaio at Seville, another coach using the newly popular 4-1-2-3 system, in tonight's Champions League game against Leicester. Robbo really must keep up with the new trends, if he wants to keep his reputation as a progressive young coach. He could drop it into the numerous never ending press conferences to impress.
Comments
He will never, ever abandon 4-2-3-1. It's his thing. It's one of the reasons we were relegated and had a poor start to the season - that Robinson is a stubborn tactician and will not and can not adapt his tactics to suit the opposition. Even if you have no holding midfielders available, he will still find a couple of poor souls to play there. Good luck doing well under this formation without a decent lone striker - we only got promoted from League 1 because we had Benik Afobe and Will Grigg rotating as the lone striker and both were 20+ goal players.
Basically, he'll buy, beg and borrow to try and get players to fit his system, and if he doesn't then he'll still play it anyway. You are stuck with it until he goes unfortunately.
To put things into perspective - Robbie Neilson our new manager has come in and completely overhauled our squad, has changed our formation to suit the opposition and we've been very competitive since he took over (losing by the odd goal, but also had some impressive wins scoring 4 v Posh away and 5 at home to Northampton). This is with 90% of the same squad he inherited from Robinson. Since Neilson took over in early-December we've played 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3 and a 4-4-2 diamond.
To summarise, if you have decent players, particuarly a good lone striker, and two good holding midfielders, it will work well. But otherwise, it's the luck of the draw.
Any manager worth his sort makes the most of what he's got, I don't believe that would make us a top 6 side necessarily but we'd be better placed than we are now.
He's had time enough with the players, he's bought in a handful and cleared out a handful supposedly all his decisions......
If that's true (which a lot of us doubt) then he's at least largely to blame for the recent results.
Slightly in his defence we all know that no manager will be successful under the current ownership but he should be doing better.
My team:
Rudd
Solly, Tex/ Baur / Chicksen (Baur would be dropped if Pearce gets fit)
Byrne , Crofts, JFC, Holmes
Malvidi/ Magdennis
or
Solly/ tex/ Baur/ Chicksen
Crofts/ Konsa/ JFC
Holmes/ Magdennis/ Malvidi - Aribo for either wingers
The problem i see its pretty much the same team, but if we just shift to 442 or even a diamond we would look better.
head coachesmanagers as a gauge for sensible length of managerial term is like judging your IQ against Joey Essex.Rudd
Solly Bauer Tex Chicksen
Byrne JFC Konsa Holmes
Magennis Watt
This could work as it means that the defence is strong, but also has two wingers who know how to cover their full backs when out of possession. JFC (or Ulvestad if he's still alive) is free to try and start moves and pick passes as Konsa is mobile enough to cover any gaps he leaves and knows how to break up play. I've always found it odd that we use him as a midfield shuttler and have Crofts as the shield, but if you're trying to force your team to fit a system then there aren't a lot of options for Karl. JFC is used to playing deep enough that without the ball he won't go missing in the midfield battle. Up front you've got Magennis as an out ball and a willing runner. Watt should be able to operate in the space Josh and the wingers create and be able to run at defences from an advanced position, which is his best trait. Magennis will also have the role of smashing Watt in the nads every time he decides to drop ridiculously deep to pick up the ball like a petulant 9 year old. It's not perfect and it's old fashioned but it suits our squad and allows our best players to play in their best roles. We can always add Crofts or Aribo into the midfield if we're being overrun. Robinson needs to realise that slavish devotion to a system doesn't work if you can't bring in all the players you want to suit it. Conte realised he didn't have the players to do what Mourinho had wanted early on, van Gaal attempting to force a 3 at the back situation onto United didn't work, Karanka is drowning at the bottom of the Premier League because he won't adapt his formation under any circumstances, and these are all managers with a bit of money and owners willing to back them. Robinson has no bloody chance of sticking to a formation when there's random Chelsea loanee children turning up in place of star players and some work experience kid on his laptop doing the scouting
We don't have that quality of player, or the individual brilliance needed to break down defences, especially since the sale of Lookman. Thus we tend to look very predictable going forward, as rival managers know exactly how we are going to line up. Similarly, they know how to attack us, as they know where we are vulnerable at the back.
With Solly out, KR has talked of playing Byrne at RB. Surely this is an ideal time (if Konsa is fit) to play 3 at the back instead, with Page/Chicksen and Byrne as the wing backs.
Having 2 players sent off.