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What was Nugent doing right?

Was it just luck or did he have ways to get this lot to perform? Serious question.
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  • Being a caretaker with no pressure.

    He didn't want the job. Even if you put a loaded gun against his head. He didn't want it.
  • So nothing to do with new table cloths then?
  • edited December 2016
    Tutt-Tutt said:

    You would have to be in the dressing room to know the answer to that one. Perhaps Nugent was keeping it simple? Players like things to be organised and simple to understand. The pre-match interview before the Bradford City game, where Robbo explained his system, made it sound very complicated.

    On today's game, either Robbo got his tactics wrong or the players failed to carry out instructions. I can't believe a team at this level would allow the oppositions most influential players a free role to dictate the pattern of play. The failure to adjust our system to nullify their influence, regain control of midfield and then go on to win the game, is a mystery.

    "Simplicity is genius" - Bobby Robson.

    I continue to resent the notion that players need things to be simple to do them well. I don't doubt that you're correct, but to me a professional footballer should be able to comprehend detailed tactical instructions, and make in-game changes. I always think back to that dossier of Jose Mourinho's that was leaked a few years ago when he was at Chelsea. It was 50-odd pages I think, and it was in the midst of Chelsea being dominant domestically.

    Perhaps I'm a bit stronger on this because in America a lot of sports utilize studying "game film" of yourselves and your opponents, even at a high school level, so I just take this for granted.

    Again, not saying your wrong, but would hope we could find an 11, particularly one that is pretty experienced, as ours is, that would be alright adjusting formations in a match.

    Also, if the opposition have a danger man in midfield, who do we have that can "do a job" on them? I remember you mentioning that their #8 ran the show from the base of the diamond. Who in our midfield has the legs to put them under pressure without leaving massive gaps?
  • vffvff
    edited December 2016
    Tutt-Tutt said:

    You are missing the point if you think all of the information in a 50 page dossier is used. The Manager will use some of that to make sure he picks the right team and sets them up properly. Also to make sure we are organised at set plays. The team talk will be very simple, otherwise the players will switch off. Some don't listen anyway. The manager should have seen every team in the Division by now and should have done his homework. The scouting report will update his knowledge.

    In the case of Forrester (8), often playing someone in that area is enough. If we have a body in that area, it closes down the space and limits his possession and may force him to wander left and right to find the ball. Leaving him in open space to collect the ball in his own time and start the build-up often with a simple pass, is asking for trouble. So get someone close to him to stop the flow! If you nullify him, then the 10 gets less possession and is less effective, and they are not controlling the game.

    Exactly. It's not rocket science especially When explained simply & clearly as Tutt Tutt manages to do.

    Making sure the scouting reports on the opposition are completed so the team is set up properly should be part of a professional football set up. The manager should then take account of his own teams strengths & weaknesses in the set up. Picking a team formation that ignores the opposition set up & your own team weaknesses is not good. If things are going wrong, then it is the mark of a decent manager that they can make in game tactical changes.

    Not sure what Robinson was trying to do yesterday. Maybe he is testing out his preferred formation to see which players can fit into it or evidencing the squad weakness to Duchatelet is anybody's guess.
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  • what ? .. he selected decent teams and it seems that he had the ability to get them organised and motivated
  • Simple
    He had ricky holmes
  • Simple
    He had ricky holmes

    Holmes was injured during the Scunthorpe cup game when Slade was still manager. He never played during the Nugent Interregnum.
  • Could it be that he was judged over 2 games? He hasn't been offered a Premiership job yet so I assume he might have got lucky? Just a thought.
  • edited December 2016
    Might have been good fortune. Might have been because there was no interference for his brief tenure. Might have been that the players liked him. Might have been because he played to the team's strengths and did not try to get them to play as he thought they should.
  • edited December 2016
    Whether it was luck or talent is irrelevant; he's not the manager now and he never wanted to be. Meaningless, much like this thread.
  • vffvff
    edited December 2016
    Nugent knew the players much better. He seemed to go for a more positive set up than Slade.

    Many of the current squad, may have decided / worked out that their time at Charlton will be ending under Robinson. The ill formed squad at the start of the season is going through another big change & upheaval. The next transfer window will tell us everything we need to know about the direction of the club (again).

    I strongly hope that Robinson takes account of the weakness of the central midfield & does not try to pretend that he has the players to play his preferred midfield or a 442 (as of yesterday), which he currently does not have. A very poor defeat at midfield will make things very difficult for him, particularly if his team set up ignores the weaknesses of the current squad. Millwall's midfield is reported to be one of the better parts of their team. It will be difficult to forgive conceding the fight in the middle of the pitch.
  • vff said:

    Nugent knew the players much better. He seemed to go for a more positive set up than Slade.

    Many of the current squad, may have decided / worked out that their time at Charlton will be ending under Robinson. The ill formed squad at the start of the season is going through another big change & upheaval. The next transfer window will tell us everything we need to know about the direction of the club (again).

    I strongly hope that Robinson takes account of the weakness of the central midfield & does not try to pretend that he has the players to play his preferred formation, which he currently does not have. A very poor defeat at midfield will make things very difficult for him, particularly if his team set up ignores the weaknesses of the current squad. Millwall's midfield is reported to be one of the better parts of their team. It will be difficult to forgive conceding the fight in the middle of the pitch.

    One of the first things KR said was that we didn't have the players to play 4-2-3-1. He knows he needs to get a new attacking midfielder or at least put someone he trusts behind the front man.
  • vff said:

    Nugent knew the players much better. He seemed to go for a more positive set up than Slade.

    Many of the current squad, may have decided / worked out that their time at Charlton will be ending under Robinson. The ill formed squad at the start of the season is going through another big change & upheaval. The next transfer window will tell us everything we need to know about the direction of the club (again).

    I strongly hope that Robinson takes account of the weakness of the central midfield & does not try to pretend that he has the players to play his preferred formation, which he currently does not have. A very poor defeat at midfield will make things very difficult for him, particularly if his team set up ignores the weaknesses of the current squad. Millwall's midfield is reported to be one of the better parts of their team. It will be difficult to forgive conceding the fight in the middle of the pitch.

    To be honest I think Robinson's approach in the games I've been to (Bradford away and yesterday) has been pretty positive - although compared to Slade that's an impossibly low bar not to overcome.

    I think Nugent was in the fortunate position of having worked with the players for six months - an incredibly long time by contemporary Charlton standards and wasn't shackled to the same, defensive football that Slade likes to play.
  • vffvff
    edited December 2016
    Simonsen said:

    vff said:

    Nugent knew the players much better. He seemed to go for a more positive set up than Slade.

    Many of the current squad, may have decided / worked out that their time at Charlton will be ending under Robinson. The ill formed squad at the start of the season is going through another big change & upheaval. The next transfer window will tell us everything we need to know about the direction of the club (again).

    I strongly hope that Robinson takes account of the weakness of the central midfield & does not try to pretend that he has the players to play his preferred formation, which he currently does not have. A very poor defeat at midfield will make things very difficult for him, particularly if his team set up ignores the weaknesses of the current squad. Millwall's midfield is reported to be one of the better parts of their team. It will be difficult to forgive conceding the fight in the middle of the pitch.

    One of the first things KR said was that we didn't have the players to play 4-2-3-1. He knows he needs to get a new attacking midfielder or at least put someone he trusts behind the front man.
    I know that KR did not play 4231 yesterday & the team has evidently lacked an attacking / creative forward playing central midfielder for the last 5 to 6months (not that this was resolved pre season). This is even more so since Gudmundsson & Cousins were sold for 4 million & replaced with loanee Ulvestadt & the out of contract / cheap Player in Crofts.

    He played a weak midfield With a 442 with Crofts in the middle with Ulvestadt & wide midfielders, who's strength's are not helping to win the central midfield battle. If he does that again against Millwall & ignores the limitations of his players to play in a formation that allows the midfield to be overrun, KR will make things difficult for himself.
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  • 4231 ? .. sound a bit like (for our older readers) the road to dusty bin
  • Simonsen said:

    vff said:

    Nugent knew the players much better. He seemed to go for a more positive set up than Slade.

    Many of the current squad, may have decided / worked out that their time at Charlton will be ending under Robinson. The ill formed squad at the start of the season is going through another big change & upheaval. The next transfer window will tell us everything we need to know about the direction of the club (again).

    I strongly hope that Robinson takes account of the weakness of the central midfield & does not try to pretend that he has the players to play his preferred formation, which he currently does not have. A very poor defeat at midfield will make things very difficult for him, particularly if his team set up ignores the weaknesses of the current squad. Millwall's midfield is reported to be one of the better parts of their team. It will be difficult to forgive conceding the fight in the middle of the pitch.

    One of the first things KR said was that we didn't have the players to play 4-2-3-1. He knows he needs to get a new attacking midfielder or at least put someone he trusts behind the front man.
    Another thing is that in KR saying that he knows that he does not have players to play 4231, he has given notice to many members of the squad, that they will be out on their ear (& maybe some of them deserve to be). Always going to be player churn with a new manager but his comments were probably not encouraging. It is likely contributed to a downturn. Markedly new team in January & more change at the end of the season again. The lack of stability is not a recipe for success.
  • Nugent was only in charge for two games ffs. How can you all read so closely into him

    Still leads the manager of the season competition by some distance!
  • smsm
    edited December 2016
    se9addick said:

    vff said:

    Nugent knew the players much better. He seemed to go for a more positive set up than Slade.

    Many of the current squad, may have decided / worked out that their time at Charlton will be ending under Robinson. The ill formed squad at the start of the season is going through another big change & upheaval. The next transfer window will tell us everything we need to know about the direction of the club (again).

    I strongly hope that Robinson takes account of the weakness of the central midfield & does not try to pretend that he has the players to play his preferred formation, which he currently does not have. A very poor defeat at midfield will make things very difficult for him, particularly if his team set up ignores the weaknesses of the current squad. Millwall's midfield is reported to be one of the better parts of their team. It will be difficult to forgive conceding the fight in the middle of the pitch.

    To be honest I think Robinson's approach in the games I've been to (Bradford away and yesterday) has been pretty positive - although compared to Slade that's an impossibly low bar not to overcome.

    I think Nugent was in the fortunate position of having worked with the players for six months - an incredibly long time by contemporary Charlton standards and wasn't shackled to the same, defensive football that Slade likes to play.
    The obvious think is therefore for KR to listen to Nugent!!
  • This is one of the problems with keep changing the manager. The players currently are Slade's players. KR will want to bring his preferred players in. No doubt there will be some new arrivals in January. Then, when KR goes, the whole merrygoround starts again. And that might be before the end of the season!
  • This is one of the problems with keep changing the manager. The players currently are Slade's players. KR will want to bring his preferred players in. No doubt there will be some new arrivals in January. Then, when KR goes, the whole merrygoround starts again. And that might be before the end of the season!

    Robinson's post-match interview yesterday indicated just that, so more players coming in who are likely to take a little time to adjust. The trade-off (and a sensible one most owners would insist on) is that other players are let go, so it's a question of who. Unlikely to be new signings who are at the front end of their contracts, or Roger Johnson who nobody wants. So who will they offload given we also have a few players that are unlikely to get anywhere near the contracts they are on at the moment.
  • mogodon said:

    This is one of the problems with keep changing the manager. The players currently are Slade's players. KR will want to bring his preferred players in. No doubt there will be some new arrivals in January. Then, when KR goes, the whole merrygoround starts again. And that might be before the end of the season!

    Robinson's post-match interview yesterday indicated just that, so more players coming in who are likely to take a little time to adjust. The trade-off (and a sensible one most owners would insist on) is that other players are let go, so it's a question of who. Unlikely to be new signings who are at the front end of their contracts, or Roger Johnson who nobody wants. So who will they offload given we also have a few players that are unlikely to get anywhere near the contracts they are on at the moment.
    It was rumoured that they tried to offload Tex & Ba in the summer but, as in the case of Rojo, there was either no takers or the price wasn't right.

    Nothing has really changed since then, has it, apart from Konsa now being more prominent in the shop window along with Lookie , albeit not on recent performances on the whole.

    If Rudd goes back to Carrow Rd, we must bring in another experienced 'keeper as a back up to young Dillon, surely ?

    I wonder what KR's New Year resolution will be .....
  • edited December 2016

    mogodon said:

    This is one of the problems with keep changing the manager. The players currently are Slade's players. KR will want to bring his preferred players in. No doubt there will be some new arrivals in January. Then, when KR goes, the whole merrygoround starts again. And that might be before the end of the season!

    Robinson's post-match interview yesterday indicated just that, so more players coming in who are likely to take a little time to adjust. The trade-off (and a sensible one most owners would insist on) is that other players are let go, so it's a question of who. Unlikely to be new signings who are at the front end of their contracts, or Roger Johnson who nobody wants. So who will they offload given we also have a few players that are unlikely to get anywhere near the contracts they are on at the moment.
    It was rumoured that they tried to offload Tex & Ba in the summer but, as in the case of Rojo, there was either no takers or the price wasn't right.

    Nothing has really changed since then, has it, apart from Konsa now being more prominent in the shop window along with Lookie , albeit not on recent performances on the whole.

    If Rudd goes back to Carrow Rd, we must bring in another experienced 'keeper as a back up to young Dillon, surely ?

    I wonder what KR's New Year resolution will be .....

    'A little less conversation and a little more action' ? Thank you, thank you very much, ah ha.

    He's alive you know, works at my local chippy :wink:
  • Any news on where Kevin Nugent is now?

    Not on the bench and Pearce said at Bromley Addicks he's not been around the training ground.

    But he's not officially left as not been said on the OS and he's not pitched up at Coventry

    VOTV saying he and Robinson had a falling out after Robinson bollocked the players after a game and saying Nugent agreed when Nugent had said before it was a bad idea.

    Is he on gardening leave?

    Is he in dispute over his pay-off?

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