Google Translate really is not fit for the purposes people use it for, although it's better than nothing.
True! On holiday last week in greece I used Google Translate for the Greek of "the bill please". It gave the correct translation but gave something the waitress didn't recognise when attempting Spanish (la cuenta por favor) to Greek ???
BILD: But two Board members signed agreements to cease and desist...
Hilliger: "That's right. When the investor [RD] was there in April, he got two members behind the backs of the Board to sign these materially false declarations. This is behaviour that damages the club and therefore we have dismissed the two men."
The local press now thinks Roland is likely to get his way in the FCC power struggle, as the people who have opposed him look like being summarily forced out.
The layer of bureaucracy where the 50 + 1 rule is applied is called the Supervisory Board. It was the people on there elected by the club members who were at loggerheads with RD. There is an Election Committee appointed by club members that has the task of putting forward a list of candidates for the new Supervisory Board to be elected at the AGM on Saturday. This committee has dropped all but one of the old Board from its candidate list, including Tom Hilliger, the lawyer who seems to have flagged a breach of the 50 + 1 rule to the regional football association.
The Election Committee will put its list of candidates for the Supervisory Board to the AGM on Saturday. Unless anyone objects, the 8 new and 1 existing candidates could be elected en bloc.
That does not look good. It is hard to read how the activists at Jena are actually playing all this. Some of them are most upset about the new stadium development meaning the SudKurve would be abolished and the "Ultras" moved to the other end of the stadium, but they don't seem to fundamentally link this to RD. The leader of a fan group wrote me "actually we mustn't have fear in front of the club-meeting, because RD is not the problem now. " I wrote back asking if this meant they have bumped him off. But for now I assume they may be directing their fire at the local council, which owns the ground and has a big say in how the stadium might be developed (with RD).
To be fair, many of the more vocal FCC fans seem to see RD as a genuinely progressive option, either for the club's ambitions of regaining some of its past glory, for the good of the local economy, from a pure capitalistic standpoint (it's his money, etc), concern over the precarious financial state of the whole club, envy of RB Leipzig's progress, or a mix of those and other reasons. I'm trying to put across the idea that they do not seem to favour him out of passivity or blind loyalty to the historic club - it's one set of activists against another.
The anti-Roland activists get a fair amount of criticism as unrealistic, backward-looking, bad for the club, even wreckers. I imagine that the opposition to RD of some of those in elected positions is based on what the club's constitution requires of them, including the 50 + 1 rule, but that will be brushed aside by people who think RD will bring positive change, because the ultimate "will" of the "fans" is the mass membership vote at the AGM. I'm not sure about this, but I think the mass membership in question consists of members of the organisation of amateur football teams that is the not-for-profit part of the FCC equation. That mass membership does not necessarily equate to fans of the pro team, or a representative cross-section of fans, but, since it's down to a democratic vote, the winner tends to take all.
To be fair, many of the more vocal FCC fans seem to see RD as a genuinely progressive option, either for the club's ambitions of regaining some of its past glory, for the good of the local economy, from a pure capitalistic standpoint (it's his money, etc), concern over the precarious financial state of the whole club, envy of RB Leipzig's progress, or a mix of those and other reasons. I'm trying to put across the idea that they do not seem to favour him out of passivity or blind loyalty to the historic club - it's one set of activists against another.
The anti-Roland activists get a fair amount of criticism as unrealistic, backward-looking, bad for the club, even wreckers. I imagine that the opposition to RD of some of those in elected positions is based on what the club's constitution requires of them, including the 50 + 1 rule, but that will be brushed aside by people who think RD will bring positive change, because the ultimate "will" of the "fans" is the mass membership vote at the AGM. I'm not sure about this, but I think the mass membership in question consists of members of the organisation of amateur football teams that is the not-for-profit part of the FCC equation. That mass membership does not necessarily equate to fans of the pro team, or a representative cross-section of fans, but, since it's down to a democratic vote, the winner tends to take all.
The vocal FCC fans should be careful what they wish for...
There is clearly much to be said for the German regulatory model - football particularly.
Having said that.....Carl Zeiss Jena are running away with the North Eastern Regional League in Germany - unbeaten in their opening 9 games (8 x wins and 1 x draw) and 8 points clear. Bit different from us.
Due we know/are we sure if this is down to the 49% ownership he has or the 51% he doesn't have?
A few years back, they were in a similar position to us, needing an investor to dig them out of a bit of a hole, which they'd been in for some time. RD stepped in. The difference was, it was the ordinary fans on the Board worrying about keeping the club afloat, not a previous owner looking to sell. I've read a recent assertion by a fan that he bought his 95% of the shares in the club for 2 million euros and he has since loaned another 600,000 euros, although I've found a report from time of purchase that says the amount the club would get was 2 million euros upfront plus 4 million over 4 years. I think that would be a lot for a tier 4 club, but is it equity or equity plus loans?
He has rattled his sabre a few times recently with the threat of withdrawing his loans, which would theoretically drive the pro club out of business. But I think some fans credit him with sustaining the club since he took over, so therefore with on-field progress, too. Incidentally, they made a fairly good start to last season, too, and were 9-4-1 in the league, before their form took its first real dip. He purchased the club in December 2013, in their second season after relegation to the regional tier 4.
The recent season-by-season performance of the club:[wiki] Year Division Tier Position 2009–10 3. Liga III 5th 2010–11 3. Liga 15th 2011–12 3. Liga 18th 2012–13 Regionalliga Nordost IV 2nd 2013–14 Regionalliga Nordost 3rd 2014–15 Regionalliga Nordost 4th 2015–16 Regionalliga Nordost 7th 2016–17 Regionalliga Nordost
As has been pointed out on CL, they wouldn't get promoted just by finishing top - they have to win through a regional play-off system, too.
Incidentally, he was busy buying them while doing due diligence on CAFC and also setting up the purchase of Alcorcon!
There is clearly much to be said for the German regulatory model - football particularly.
Having said that.....Carl Zeiss Jena are running away with the North Eastern Regional League in Germany - unbeaten in their opening 9 games (8 x wins and 1 x draw) and 8 points clear. Bit different from us.
Due we know/are we sure if this is down to the 49% ownership he has or the 51% he doesn't have?
Well, when we visited, in March 2015, we were told by Andreas Trautmann, the part-time press officer and full time Jena fan, that the club had considered RD's network player system and politely told him where to stick it. The implication was, he would not be involved in the football side at all. We got the impression that RD had accepted that and decided to concentrate on building the commercial side of the club. You know, if he would stick to that side of things at all his clubs, instead of meddling in the football side, he might actually be both quite successful and quite liked.
I was hoping to get an invite to the meeting on Saturday but none of our contacts - or alleged contacts in one case - have come forward with an invite, so I am not going to pitch up there, even though my wife and I will be in the region for the weekend; we have a daughter in law in Aue . I don't think RD is going to be there, which was the main attraction for me. Saturday morning at 10.00 seems a bizarre time for such a meeting too.
As Addicks' resistance to RD once more intensifies and CARD's campaign reaches new levels of defiance, may we send best wishes to all FCCers on the occasion of their General Assembly tomorrow morning.
A document is now available on the club's website presenting each of the nine candidates, their credentials and their beliefs. With commendable thoroughness the document runs to a total of 46 pages.
The club members have some difficult decisions to take - may they be granted wisdom and courage to do what needs to be done in the best interests of FC Carl Zeiss Jena 1903.
One piece of advice only - if you plan to dine with the Devil, just make sure you take a long spoon !!
So if I am understanding it correctly, this would be like RD fixing things to ensure majority ownership of our club was in the hands of Sue Perks, John Comerford and Target 20k?
So if I am understanding it correctly, this would be like RD fixing things to ensure majority ownership of our club was in the hands of Sue Perks, John Comerford and Target 20k?
Today's General Assembly is now duly reported on the club's OS.
Out of 4191 eligible members, 494 attended. The new Supervisory Board elected shows "an almost completely new face". [What this signifies in pro/anti RD terms will no doubt become clear in due course.]
Chris Foerster, the (RD) X-Fab employee and RD appointee as MD, gave the meeting some figures. Quoted in the OS report were last season's loss of €933K, following the previous season's loss of €1.49 million, and the loss for the current season to date of €200K [this even after 19000 and the TV cameras attended the home Cup game against Bayern Munich]. This ongoing situation presents "a major challenge".
Hopefully PA's contact/s will be able to provide the necessary analysis. It would seem that RD's tanks are well and truly lined up on the pitch ....
Today's General Assembly is now duly reported on the club's OS.
Out of 4191 eligible members, 494 attended. The new Supervisory Board elected shows "an almost completely new face". [What this signifies in pro/anti RD terms will no doubt become clear in due course.]
Chris Foerster, the (RD) X-Fab employee and RD appointee as MD, gave the meeting some figures. Quoted in the OS report were last season's loss of €933K, following the previous season's loss of €1.49 million, and the loss for the current season to date of €200K [this even after 19000 and the TV cameras attended the home Cup game against Bayern Munich]. This ongoing situation presents "a major challenge".
Hopefully PA's contact/s will be able to provide the necessary analysis. It would seem that RD's tanks are well and truly lined up on the pitch ....
Which means? 15% of the non-Roland owners turned up and elected a new 'Supervisory Board'.
They lost £1.2m in 2014-15 and £0.8m in 2015-16 (IE They are trying to stem losses - which any glance at their transfer activity would show). The decision to dispense with the manager over the summer and pass on the duties to the Coach is clearly part of the same approach: save money.
As of today, though, they remain top of their League by 8 points.
Looks to me that Roland is following his usual approach - modest investment + cut costs wherever possible. Given the clubs success at present I wouldn't have thought the supporters would throw their toys out of the pram and try and seek a change of ownership. (Certainly at this stage).
Two interesting articles on www.otz.de (subject to mind-numbing Google Translate).
Without RD the club would have folded. Every season the structural deficit is too great. Unlike many similar clubs, however, FCC continue to spend on reserve/youth teams.
Many fans seem appreciative that RD continues to keep FCC on life-support, but what really gets them angry is that when things don't go his way RD immediately threatens to pull out. Not a comfortable situation.
Two interesting articles on www.otz.de (subject to mind-numbing Google Translate).
Without RD the club would have folded. Every season the structural deficit is too great. Unlike many similar clubs, however, FCC continue to spend on reserve/youth teams.
Many fans seem appreciative that RD continues to keep FCC on life-support, but what really gets them angry is that when things don't go his way RD immediately threatens to pull out. Not a comfortable situation.
Like a petulant child; clearly Roland doesn't do dialog with fans.
Pretty interesting that he threatens to pull out where he's doing well, but refuses to acknowledge it as a possibility where he's despised..
Two interesting articles on www.otz.de (subject to mind-numbing Google Translate).
Without RD the club would have folded. Every season the structural deficit is too great. Unlike many similar clubs, however, FCC continue to spend on reserve/youth teams.
Many fans seem appreciative that RD continues to keep FCC on life-support, but what really gets them angry is that when things don't go his way RD immediately threatens to pull out. Not a comfortable situation.
Like a petulant child; clearly Roland doesn't do dialog with fans.
Pretty interesting that he threatens to pull out where he's doing well, but refuses to acknowledge it as a possibility where he's despised..
Two interesting articles on www.otz.de (subject to mind-numbing Google Translate).
Without RD the club would have folded. Every season the structural deficit is too great. Unlike many similar clubs, however, FCC continue to spend on reserve/youth teams.
Many fans seem appreciative that RD continues to keep FCC on life-support, but what really gets them angry is that when things don't go his way RD immediately threatens to pull out. Not a comfortable situation.
Like a petulant child; clearly Roland doesn't do dialog with fans.
Pretty interesting that he threatens to pull out where he's doing well, but refuses to acknowledge it as a possibility where he's despised..
It's about the 50 + 1 rule. It's been an obstruction to him having the final say on matters of recruitment, choice of coaches and principles of team selection (aka play the kids at every opportunity). It's his money but their club representatives controlling the pro team.
Imagine what it would be like if CARD had a big say in such decisions at Charlton!
Comments
Google Translate really is not fit for the purposes people use it for, although it's better than nothing.
True! On holiday last week in greece I used Google Translate for the Greek of "the bill please". It gave the correct translation but gave something the waitress didn't recognise when attempting Spanish (la cuenta por favor) to Greek ???
Hilliger: "That's right. When the investor [RD] was there in April, he got two members behind the backs of the Board to sign these materially false declarations. This is behaviour that damages the club and therefore we have dismissed the two men."
Its a philosophical rhetorical question aimed at his own ego
Roland fucktard, the most selfish of philosophers, namely the guy who thinks he is jesus
Roland your a wanker
The layer of bureaucracy where the 50 + 1 rule is applied is called the Supervisory Board. It was the people on there elected by the club members who were at loggerheads with RD. There is an Election Committee appointed by club members that has the task of putting forward a list of candidates for the new Supervisory Board to be elected at the AGM on Saturday. This committee has dropped all but one of the old Board from its candidate list, including Tom Hilliger, the lawyer who seems to have flagged a breach of the 50 + 1 rule to the regional football association.
The Election Committee will put its list of candidates for the Supervisory Board to the AGM on Saturday. Unless anyone objects, the 8 new and 1 existing candidates could be elected en bloc.
The regional paper article:
http://m.otz.de/startseite/detail/-/specific/FC-Carl-Zeiss-Jena-Umbruch-im-Aufsichtsrat-steht-fest-2100438898
Thanks for the link, @MountsfieldPark
The anti-Roland activists get a fair amount of criticism as unrealistic, backward-looking, bad for the club, even wreckers. I imagine that the opposition to RD of some of those in elected positions is based on what the club's constitution requires of them, including the 50 + 1 rule, but that will be brushed aside by people who think RD will bring positive change, because the ultimate "will" of the "fans" is the mass membership vote at the AGM. I'm not sure about this, but I think the mass membership in question consists of members of the organisation of amateur football teams that is the not-for-profit part of the FCC equation. That mass membership does not necessarily equate to fans of the pro team, or a representative cross-section of fans, but, since it's down to a democratic vote, the winner tends to take all.
Having said that.....Carl Zeiss Jena are running away with the North Eastern Regional League in Germany - unbeaten in their opening 9 games (8 x wins and 1 x draw) and 8 points clear. Bit different from us.
Due we know/are we sure if this is down to the 49% ownership he has or the 51% he doesn't have?
He has rattled his sabre a few times recently with the threat of withdrawing his loans, which would theoretically drive the pro club out of business. But I think some fans credit him with sustaining the club since he took over, so therefore with on-field progress, too. Incidentally, they made a fairly good start to last season, too, and were 9-4-1 in the league, before their form took its first real dip. He purchased the club in December 2013, in their second season after relegation to the regional tier 4.
The recent season-by-season performance of the club:[wiki]
Year Division Tier Position
2009–10 3. Liga III 5th
2010–11 3. Liga 15th
2011–12 3. Liga 18th
2012–13 Regionalliga Nordost IV 2nd
2013–14 Regionalliga Nordost 3rd
2014–15 Regionalliga Nordost 4th
2015–16 Regionalliga Nordost 7th
2016–17 Regionalliga Nordost
As has been pointed out on CL, they wouldn't get promoted just by finishing top - they have to win through a regional play-off system, too.
Incidentally, he was busy buying them while doing due diligence on CAFC and also setting up the purchase of Alcorcon!
http://www.liga3-online.de/mitglieder-des-fc-carl-zeiss-jena-sagen-ja-zu-investoreinstieg
http://www.otz.de/web/zgt/sport/detail/-/specific/FC-Carl-Zeiss-Klare-Mehrheit-fuer-Millionen-Investor-Duchatelet-2002768736 (dates from 16/12/2013)
I was hoping to get an invite to the meeting on Saturday but none of our contacts - or alleged contacts in one case - have come forward with an invite, so I am not going to pitch up there, even though my wife and I will be in the region for the weekend; we have a daughter in law in Aue . I don't think RD is going to be there, which was the main attraction for me. Saturday morning at 10.00 seems a bizarre time for such a meeting too.
As Addicks' resistance to RD once more intensifies and CARD's campaign reaches new levels of defiance, may we send best wishes to all FCCers on the occasion of their General Assembly tomorrow morning.
A document is now available on the club's website presenting each of the nine candidates, their credentials and their beliefs. With commendable thoroughness the document runs to a total of 46 pages.
The club members have some difficult decisions to take - may they be granted wisdom and courage to do what needs to be done in the best interests of FC Carl Zeiss Jena 1903.
One piece of advice only - if you plan to dine with the Devil, just make sure you take a long spoon !!
Today's General Assembly is now duly reported on the club's OS.
Out of 4191 eligible members, 494 attended. The new Supervisory Board elected shows "an almost completely new face". [What this signifies in pro/anti RD terms will no doubt become clear in due course.]
Chris Foerster, the (RD) X-Fab employee and RD appointee as MD, gave the meeting some figures. Quoted in the OS report were last season's loss of €933K, following the previous season's loss of €1.49 million, and the loss for the current season to date of €200K [this even after 19000 and the TV cameras attended the home Cup game against Bayern Munich]. This ongoing situation presents "a major challenge".
Hopefully PA's contact/s will be able to provide the necessary analysis. It would seem that RD's tanks are well and truly lined up on the pitch ....
Local TV news report, if any German speakers can kindly translate, please
YouTube : Spannungen auf MV des FC Carl Zeiss Jena MDR
Can't even be sure RD got battered although i am hopeful.
They lost £1.2m in 2014-15 and £0.8m in 2015-16 (IE They are trying to stem losses - which any glance at their transfer activity would show). The decision to dispense with the manager over the summer and pass on the duties to the Coach is clearly part of the same approach: save money.
As of today, though, they remain top of their League by 8 points.
Looks to me that Roland is following his usual approach - modest investment + cut costs wherever possible. Given the clubs success at present I wouldn't have thought the supporters would throw their toys out of the pram and try and seek a change of ownership. (Certainly at this stage).
Two interesting articles on www.otz.de (subject to mind-numbing Google Translate).
Without RD the club would have folded. Every season the structural deficit is too great. Unlike many similar clubs, however, FCC continue to spend on reserve/youth teams.
Many fans seem appreciative that RD continues to keep FCC on life-support, but what really gets them angry is that when things don't go his way RD immediately threatens to pull out. Not a comfortable situation.
Pretty interesting that he threatens to pull out where he's doing well, but refuses to acknowledge it as a possibility where he's despised..
Imagine what it would be like if CARD had a big say in such decisions at Charlton!