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Is our current squad stronger than 11/12

Imnot AthleticImnot Athletic
edited September 2016 in General Charlton
Frollowing on from CAFCTrevs thread comparing the current squad to 2009/10 I thought id open up a similar debate about 11/12. The General consensus on CAFC Trevs thread was that this squad was stronger than 9/10 but weaker than our championship winning outfit. However, im not so sure.,

Below is a list of the current squad, with there 2011/12 equivalents, along with appearances and goals from that season.

Now Then (Apps/goals)


Declan Rudd ===> Ben Hamer (42 / 0 )
Dillon Phillips ===> John Sullivan (8 / 0 )

Chris Solly ===> Chris Solly (48 / 0 )
Morgan Fox ===> Rhoys Wiggins (47 / 1 )
Adam Chickson ===> Cedric Evina (9 / 0 )
Kevin Foley ===> Andy Hughes (20 / 0 )

Jason Pearce ===> Michael Morrison (50 / 5 )
Jorge Teixeira ===> Matt Taylor (43 / 1 )
Patrick Bauer ===> Leon Cort (17 / 0 )
Ezri Konsa ===> Gary Doherty (6 / 0 )
Harry Lennon ===> Yado Mambo (2 / 0 )
Roger Johnson

Andrew Crofts ===> Danny Hollands (46 / 8 )
Johnnie Jackson ===> Johnnie Jackson (39 / 13 )
Fredrik Ulvestad ===> Dale Stephens (31 / 4 )
Ahmed Kashi ===> Bradley Pritchard (25 / 1 )
El-Hadji Ba ===> Mikel Alsonso (1 / 0 )
Oliver Muldoon

Ricky Holmes ===> Danny Green (37 / 3 )
Ademola Lookman ===> Scotty Wagstaff (30 / 5 )
Jordan Botaka ===> Ruben Bover (2 / 0 )


Nicky Ajose ===> Brad Wright-Phillips (45 / 22 )
Josh Maginnis ===> Yann Kermorgant (39 / 12 )
Lee Novak ===> Paul Hayes (22 / 3 )
Karlan Ahearne-Grant ===> Jason Euell (16 / 2 )
Brandon Hanlan ===> Danny Haynes (14 / 2 )
Josh Umerah ===> Leon Clarke (7 / 0 )
??????? ===> Michael Smith (1 / 0 )
??????? ===> Tosan Popo (1 / 0 )


What do you think?
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Comments

  • Imnot AthleticImnot Athletic
    Sorry the format is a bit messy!
  • MartinCAFCMartinCAFC
    dabos said:

    The thing about the 2011/12 squad was that the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. There was an unbelievable togetherness and feel good factor. This was the peak of the likes of Matt Taylor, Bradley Pritchard, Danny Hollands and Danny Haynes' careers, they were absolutely immense for us, but their careers have all nosedived since. They weren't the best players, but they were bloody brilliant for us.

    I think the overall makeup of the 2011/12 squad was much better. I don't think many of our current crop could dislodge the best 2011/12 team. Possibly one of the centre backs ahead of Matt Taylor, but that's about it.

    I would also have Ricky Holmes in over Danny Green and Declan Rudd over Ben Hamer.

    Jackson and Solly are still around albeit a few years older.

    I do agree the 11/12 team is better than the current team but not by a huge difference although the togetherness and team ethic was significantly higher in 11/12 too
  • Imnot AthleticImnot Athletic
    Both great points, Powell coped with a similar sized squad and got every ounce of effort and ability out of the players at his disposal. Powell also created a atmosphere in and around the team of hard work, togetherness and belief. It remains to be seen if Slade can generate a similar bond, its early days but every indication is he has the best chance since Powell to do so. Arguably Powell was also lucky with no serious injuries

  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    Good listing, the players are more comparable than I thought.

    11/12 also had Darel Russell who was a Crofts type player

    Benson was the player we started with, he only left when we got Clarke, while Haynes only came in after Christmas so probably shouldn't be included!
  • shirty5shirty5
    No
  • Imnot AthleticImnot Athletic
    I was trying to find the Statbank from that season, but gave up after scrolling through 15 pages!

    I pinched the players and stats from this thread: http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/72742/new-article-the-champions-of-league-1-2011-12-where-are-they-now

    The point I was trying to make was relative importance and strength in depth. Though the comparison isn't as valid now the loan window doesn't exist, though from memory Powell didn't use it that season

  • Imnot AthleticImnot Athletic
    MartinCAFC said:

    dabos said:

    The thing about the 2011/12 squad was that the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. There was an unbelievable togetherness and feel good factor. This was the peak of the likes of Matt Taylor, Bradley Pritchard, Danny Hollands and Danny Haynes' careers, they were absolutely immense for us, but their careers have all nosedived since. They weren't the best players, but they were bloody brilliant for us.

    I think the overall makeup of the 2011/12 squad was much better. I don't think many of our current crop could dislodge the best 2011/12 team. Possibly one of the centre backs ahead of Matt Taylor, but that's about it.

    I would also have Ricky Holmes in over Danny Green and Declan Rudd over Ben Hamer.

    Jackson and Solly are still around albeit a few years older.

    I do agree the 11/12 team is better than the current team but not by a huge difference although the togetherness and team ethic was significantly higher in 11/12 too
    I'd have Tex and Bauer over Morrison and Taylor and Chris Solly of now over Chris Solly 4 years younger. Sad to say the same isnt the case with Jacko!
  • BetterCallSaulBetterCallSaul
    In defense...yeah probably. Everywhere else...not really. Individually, one or two might score better in a Top Trumps-style battle but, as a sum of its parts, there's a big gap.

    The entire atmosphere around the club and within the players and coaching staff back in 11/12 were light years away from what we have right now, and it played a big part in dragging us through that season.

    I'd probably add this to that list too...

    Russell Slade ===> Chris Powell

    The juries out on that one. It'll take a hell of a lot for RS to emulate the great man in what he did that season.
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  • se9addickse9addick
    Defence probably yes, midfield and attack much weaker
  • harveys_gardenerharveys_gardener
    Stronger in defence and attack although YK and a fit DH bettter quality. All falls down in midfield unless a freebie comes in or Kashi gets fit or Konsa slots into the holding role.
  • Lewis CoachesLewis Coaches
    Weaker this season. 2011/2012 squard had backbone ,Morrison,Taylor,midfield,Holland and Jackson
    up front Phillips and Kermorgant.Hamer in goal not forgeting Solley and Wiggins wing backs.

    All the above players played in 39 games or more.

    Can not see many of this seasons squard getting near this at all.

    Everyone played for the shirt that season and the pride it gave Chris Powell could be seen by all fans alike.
  • sam3110sam3110
    Is the squad stronger than the other 23 squads in League 1? That's the only comparison that matters
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    Imnot Athletic said:

    MartinCAFC said:

    dabos said:

    The thing about the 2011/12 squad was that the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. There was an unbelievable togetherness and feel good factor. This was the peak of the likes of Matt Taylor, Bradley Pritchard, Danny Hollands and Danny Haynes' careers, they were absolutely immense for us, but their careers have all nosedived since. They weren't the best players, but they were bloody brilliant for us.

    I think the overall makeup of the 2011/12 squad was much better. I don't think many of our current crop could dislodge the best 2011/12 team. Possibly one of the centre backs ahead of Matt Taylor, but that's about it.

    I would also have Ricky Holmes in over Danny Green and Declan Rudd over Ben Hamer.

    Jackson and Solly are still around albeit a few years older.

    I do agree the 11/12 team is better than the current team but not by a huge difference although the togetherness and team ethic was significantly higher in 11/12 too
    I'd have Tex and Bauer over Morrison and Taylor and Chris Solly of now over Chris Solly 4 years younger. Sad to say the same isnt the case with Jacko!
    I'd have the 2011 Solly, as that was before his knee problems
  • ScohamScoham
    Imnot Athletic said:

    I was trying to find the Statbank from that season, but gave up after scrolling through 15 pages!

    I pinched the players and stats from this thread: http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/72742/new-article-the-champions-of-league-1-2011-12-where-are-they-now

    The point I was trying to make was relative importance and strength in depth. Though the comparison isn't as valid now the loan window doesn't exist, though from memory Powell didn't use it that season

    N'Guessan, Cook, Ephraim and Russell all joined on short term loans that season.
  • dabosdabos
    MartinCAFC said:

    dabos said:

    The thing about the 2011/12 squad was that the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. There was an unbelievable togetherness and feel good factor. This was the peak of the likes of Matt Taylor, Bradley Pritchard, Danny Hollands and Danny Haynes' careers, they were absolutely immense for us, but their careers have all nosedived since. They weren't the best players, but they were bloody brilliant for us.

    I think the overall makeup of the 2011/12 squad was much better. I don't think many of our current crop could dislodge the best 2011/12 team. Possibly one of the centre backs ahead of Matt Taylor, but that's about it.

    I would also have Ricky Holmes in over Danny Green and Declan Rudd over Ben Hamer.

    Jackson and Solly are still around albeit a few years older.

    I do agree the 11/12 team is better than the current team but not by a huge difference although the togetherness and team ethic was significantly higher in 11/12 too
    Too early to say on Rudd and I'm not really in a position to comment, as I'm boycotting. Obvs Scott Wagstaff over both Holmes and Green :)
  • harveys_gardenerharveys_gardener
    se9addick said:

    harveys gardener said:

    Stronger in defence and attack although YK and a fit DH bettter quality. All falls down in midfield unless a freebie comes in or Kashi gets fit or Konsa slots into the holding role.

    Really ? I think Yann & BWP are/were better players than Ajose, Magginnis & Novak.
    Yann better than all but BWP didn't hack it in Champ. Haynes could have been Prem if fit. But we have more strength in depth up top if not YK quality.
  • redmanredman
    Definately not stronger. Only Holmes from our current team would get in the first 11. Possibly Rudd.
    Hard to see even the Jackson and Solly of now being preferred to that year.
    Management also better!
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  • Addickted2TheRedsAddickted2TheReds
    I'm not too sure about those saying we are better in defence this year.

    Record clean sheets from that season.

    Also, Solly was arguably better than he is now and Wiggins was absolutely sensational that season ... easily better than Fox.

    Morro and Cort/Taylor were sublime as well.

    I do agree that it is closer than you would expect though. 11/12 was a much tougher divison ... it just goes to show how good a manager CP is really.
  • Off_itOff_it
    shirty5 said:

    No

    Completely agree.

    No.
  • DamoNorthStandDamoNorthStand
    Who would I swap into that team from our current lot?

    Some of this is on paper as I have yet to learn everything about our current lot but to hazard a guess:

    Rudd (all indications point to him being the best keeper in the division)
    Holmes
    Lookman
    One of Bauer / Pearce / Tex to partner Morro

    So mixed team of:

    Rudd
    Solly
    Wiggins
    Morro
    Pearce
    Holmes
    Jackson (2011 edition)
    Stephens
    Lookman
    BWP
    Kermorgant
  • I-SAW-POUSO-PLAYI-SAW-POUSO-PLAY
    Hamer solly Taylor Morrison Wiggins Holmes Hollands Jackson lookman kerm bwp

    People putting Stephens in are obviously forgetting he wasn't that great until 2013/14 season.
  • Covered EndCovered End
    No.

    Kermorgant & BWP are proven. Magennis & Ajose are not.

    Midfield is also weaker and we have poor home support this time.
  • Henry IrvingHenry Irving
    Powell had a lot more time and a more supportive and knowledgeable CEO with which to build his squad.

    Slade came in late and was still "miles away" a fee weeks before the season started.

    Powell's squad was better IMHO but it doesn't really matter.

    Slade doesn't have to do better than Powell did in 11/12, he just has to take us up.
  • simonmatthewssimonmatthews
    I'd say our team now is stronger:

    Players with International + Premiership (or comparable) experience

    2011/2012 - Wright-Phillips, Jackson, Doherty, Euell, Cort, Kermogant

    2016/2017 - Rudd, Johnson, Foley, Teixeira, Bauer, Jackson, Crofts, Kashi, Ulvestad, Botaka, Magennis

    In 2011-12 we also had Elliott, Hamer, Wiggins and Stephens at various points in the campaign, all of whom went on to better things. Today we have Lookman who is expected to leave at some point.

    Otherwise the remainder of both sets of players are made up of hard working, reliable types......some better than others, but most ok for this level.

    So, 2016-17 has the edge I'd say. However, standards have risen in the last 5 years so automatic promotion cannot be assumed.
  • LincsaddickLincsaddick
    I'd say the current staff is stronger .. however in the last three/four years players at all levels are fitter and faster and tactics have developed, especially defensive tactics .. skill levels have improved even in the last few years .. we will see how the two match up come April 2017
  • cantersaddickcantersaddick
    Imnot Athletic said:

    I was trying to find the Statbank from that season, but gave up after scrolling through 15 pages!

    I pinched the players and stats from this thread: http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/72742/new-article-the-champions-of-league-1-2011-12-where-are-they-now

    The point I was trying to make was relative importance and strength in depth. Though the comparison isn't as valid now the loan window doesn't exist, though from memory Powell didn't use it that season

    Erm Darrell Russell, Lee Cook, Danny N'Guessan off the top of my head.. I'm sure we had a few more as well. Powell made good use of the loan window, none played major parts but all came in and did a good job while covering an injury/gap.
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    I-SAW-POUSO-PLAY said:

    Hamer solly Taylor Morrison Wiggins Holmes Hollands Jackson lookman kerm bwp

    People putting Stephens in are obviously forgetting he wasn't that great until 2013/14 season.

    True, Stephens was disappointing for 2 season then found his form in his final 6 months with us, and hasn't looked back!
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