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The Valley

Is'nt the Valley green belt land and can't be used for housing etc.
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  • Fairly sure it wouldn't be green belt but it may have many other restrictions on it
  • I'm sure it has been classified green belt for years?
  • I think it is designated for sporting use, or something similar.
  • Were you just listening to Talksport by any chance?
  • It's not green belt. It has been classified as a community asset. Which affords some protection.
  • wrighty said:

    Is'nt the Valley green belt land and can't be used for housing etc.

    Rules seem able to be changed if 'the price is right.'
  • I will get the man held hostage myself if he messes with our home.
  • On the local plan Greenwich designate it as a Sports Ground, so any changes would require permission to change use first.
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  • I wonder how many objections the council would receive if they ever got a housing application on the ground..??
  • Would something like this have to go through the Mayor first?
  • Does the valley and areas in black heath come under the same council?
  • cafc999 said:

    I wonder how many objections the council would receive if they ever got a housing application on the ground..??

    Selling the ground for housing would never be allowed

    There's no evidence that RD wants to do that anyway. He might be a nutter, but he's not a spivvy property developer.
  • "Roland owns the ground. He can do what he likes with it and the fans just have to accept that."

    I've never seen the business logic is buying the club and then running it down so as to get access to the land but then again Roland has never followed business logic.

    We've seen how ground development at his other clubs such as St Truiden and, IIRC, Uspest have been a key part of the project.

    We also know that Tony Cahones went to Orient to look at how they have integrated housing within a football ground.

    The hurdles for Roland is that planning permission in urban London isn't the same as in semi-rural Belgium. There is an ACV and there would be huge political and media interest.

    The football league and FA, post MK Dons, have made it much harder for clubs to relocate as well.

    But as we know Roland thinks he's a visionary and a tower block at the Jimmy Seed End could well be on his mind.


  • I think it is designated for sporting use, or something similar.

    Some of those Interim managers shot that to pieces, 11 blokes running around like headless chickens isn't sporting use. ;)
  • "Roland owns the ground. He can do what he likes with it and the fans just have to accept that."

    I've never seen the business logic is buying the club and then running it down so as to get access to the land but then again Roland has never followed business logic.

    We've seen how ground development at his other clubs such as St Truiden and, IIRC, Uspest have been a key part of the project.

    We also know that Tony Cahones went to Orient to look at how they have integrated housing within a football ground.

    The hurdles for Roland is that planning permission in urban London isn't the same as in semi-rural Belgium. There is an ACV and there would be huge political and media interest.

    The football league and FA, post MK Dons, have made it much harder for clubs to relocate as well.

    But as we know Roland thinks he's a visionary and a tower block at the Jimmy Seed End could well be on his mind.


    So with KM now appointed to the FA Council, does this re-balance things towards being easier - or will it perhaps put her under a lot more pressure not to run roughshod over the club that she "runs"? May well get interesting.....
  • "Roland owns the ground. He can do what he likes with it and the fans just have to accept that."

    I've never seen the business logic is buying the club and then running it down so as to get access to the land but then again Roland has never followed business logic.

    We've seen how ground development at his other clubs such as St Truiden and, IIRC, Uspest have been a key part of the project.

    We also know that Tony Cahones went to Orient to look at how they have integrated housing within a football ground.

    The hurdles for Roland is that planning permission in urban London isn't the same as in semi-rural Belgium. There is an ACV and there would be huge political and media interest.

    The football league and FA, post MK Dons, have made it much harder for clubs to relocate as well.

    But as we know Roland thinks he's a visionary and a tower block at the Jimmy Seed End could well be on his mind.


    Previous owners have sold off pockets of land, including since we came back to the Valley (the houses at the back of the West Stand carpark in Valley Grove)

    Norwich have a hotel in one corner of the ground. Chelsea have a hotel in the shed end.

    I'm not saying I support rebuilding the JS end with a scheme including housing, but I wouldn't rule it out without seeing the plans.
  • edited August 2016
    The Valley can generate a lot more income if its used 7 days a week. It makes sense that the football side is irrelevant to this when the team finds its miserable, non-competetive, break even level. The ground gets sold to another Duchatalet subsidiary, the football team then rent the pitch (on much worse terms than West Ham!). The ground is redeveloped to include retail/dining outlets to generate steady 365 day income. Housing is included also to create further leasehold income (Duchatalet will be here for at least 99 years!)

    If this is his plan, and i fear it is, he will only sell the real estate assets to himself. If hes lucky enough to find someone as dozy as Mark Goldberg he would probably sell the football team off once the ground redevelopment is well underway and unstoppable.
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  • I noticed on Saturday that there is a pretty large building going up behind the East Stand - Lansdowne Mews? - and wondered if that might suggest the council would be amenable to a residential development at the Valley. I hope that that isn't RD's game plan but nothing would surprise me with that nutter.
  • Missed It said:

    The Valley can generate a lot more income if its used 7 days a week. It makes sense that the football side is irrelevant to this when the team finds its miserable, non-competetive, break even level. The ground gets sold to another Duchatalet subsidiary, the football team then rent the pitch (on much worse terms than West Ham!). The ground is redeveloped to include retail/dining outlets to generate steady 365 day income. Housing is included also to create further leasehold income (Duchatalet will be here for at least 99 years!)

    If this is his plan, and i fear it is, he will only sell the real estate assets to himself. If hes lucky enough to find someone as dozy as Mark Goldberg he would probably sell the football team off once the ground redevelopment is well underway and unstoppable.

    The problem with this is that the Valley is in a residential area. Retail/Dining/Etc just aren't going to generate income due to that location. @killerandflash mentions Chelsea's and Norwich's hotels, but both are in city centre locations, not residential streets. Why would somebody choose to stay at a hotel at the Valley rather than the many hotels in Greenwich or out by the Dome?
  • Davo55 said:

    I noticed on Saturday that there is a pretty large building going up behind the East Stand - Lansdowne Mews? - and wondered if that might suggest the council would be amenable to a residential development at the Valley. I hope that that isn't RD's game plan but nothing would surprise me with that nutter.

    That's the land that the club sold a few years ago. It might affect our chances of expanding the East Stand, but has no bearing on building elsewhere on the main site
  • Missed It said:

    The Valley can generate a lot more income if its used 7 days a week. It makes sense that the football side is irrelevant to this when the team finds its miserable, non-competetive, break even level. The ground gets sold to another Duchatalet subsidiary, the football team then rent the pitch (on much worse terms than West Ham!). The ground is redeveloped to include retail/dining outlets to generate steady 365 day income. Housing is included also to create further leasehold income (Duchatalet will be here for at least 99 years!)

    If this is his plan, and i fear it is, he will only sell the real estate assets to himself. If hes lucky enough to find someone as dozy as Mark Goldberg he would probably sell the football team off once the ground redevelopment is well underway and unstoppable.

    The problem with this is that the Valley is in a residential area. Retail/Dining/Etc just aren't going to generate income due to that location. @killerandflash mentions Chelsea's and Norwich's hotels, but both are in city centre locations, not residential streets. Why would somebody choose to stay at a hotel at the Valley rather than the many hotels in Greenwich or out by the Dome?
    I take your point, i just fear its his plan to separate the football club from the property assets. His 'expertise' is in electronics. He has clearly demonstrated he has no clue about football but that probably wouldn't stop him from trying to make equally clueless plans in property development.
  • edited August 2016
    It seems Roland sees all this as a win win for him, whatever miserable path he trails his knuckles down on this, as we glide round this merry go round of second guessing his dishonourable intentions.
    Win win on the football pitch however remains a relatively minor concern except as a reluctant platitude to those pesky customers.
    Here's the thing Roland, why don't you come out personally and tell all the media outlets here and in Belgium and swear on a roll of duck tape that you will never redevelopment the Valley in part with other commercial interests like hotels and housing and that you recognise categorically that this is a FOOTBALL club that you intend to run it that as the PRIMARY business concern.
    But you won't put anything like that in print, will you?
    So we continue second guessing and fearing the worst.
    And it is all your doing.
    Good work.
  • 3blokes said:

    It seems Roland sees all this as a win win for him, whatever miserable path he trails his knuckles down on this, as we glide round this merry go round of second guessing his dishonourable intentions.
    Win win on the football pitch however remains a relatively minor concern except as a reluctant platitude to those pesky customers.
    Here's the thing Roland, why don't you come out personally and tell all the media outlets here and in Belgium and swear on a roll of duck tape that you will never redevelopment the Valley in part with other commercial interests like hotels and housing and that you recognise categorically that this is a FOOTBALL club that you intend to run it that as the PRIMARY business concern.
    But you won't put anything like that in print, will you?
    So we continue second guessing and fearing the worst.
    And it is all your doing.
    Good work.

    On this front, I don't see any need for him to come out with a statement like that, any more than he needs to deny that we will be renamed Greenwich Raiders or change kits to play in Blue and white stripes.

    There's enough problems and errors that he's actually done without worrying about things that he hasn't done.
  • ......300 luxury apartments coming soon.
  • Planning would be an issue. Retail amongst housing is a Nono. Access would be the other headache. Access onto Charlton Hill would be disputed/refused. Railway line a downer. Only possibility would be to buy the land that constitutes the pedestrian tunnel to main road from the council and make deeper. But again doubt it would be wide enough to allow a full redevelopment.
  • 3blokes said:

    It seems Roland sees all this as a win win for him, whatever miserable path he trails his knuckles down on this, as we glide round this merry go round of second guessing his dishonourable intentions.
    Win win on the football pitch however remains a relatively minor concern except as a reluctant platitude to those pesky customers.
    Here's the thing Roland, why don't you come out personally and tell all the media outlets here and in Belgium and swear on a roll of duck tape that you will never redevelopment the Valley in part with other commercial interests like hotels and housing and that you recognise categorically that this is a FOOTBALL club that you intend to run it that as the PRIMARY business concern.
    But you won't put anything like that in print, will you?
    So we continue second guessing and fearing the worst.
    And it is all your doing.
    Good work.

    On this front, I don't see any need for him to come out with a statement like that, any more than he needs to deny that we will be renamed Greenwich Raiders or change kits to play in Blue and white stripes.

    There's enough problems and errors that he's actually done without worrying about things that he hasn't done.
    I take your point. But he allows speculation about his intentions by saying nothing or getting the CEO to spout generic claptrap.
    We are just left floundering while he schemes his Big Idea.
    No change there, I guess.
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Roland Out Forever!