Of course that does assume that any of those boycotting, and abusing those that are not, care about the short term squad strength and the short term results. I fully understand (all be it I don't agree with) those that don't care how far the club has to fall to remove RD and KM. And for those that would rather see AFC Charlton play on Charlton Park full of overweight members of Charlton Life, I fully respect your position - I just don't agree with it.
For me the only dilemma (ignoring the atmosphere at The Valley) revolves around the budget for players. It seems to be assumed that the income has no bearing on the player budget. I can see why this is assumed as Roland has so much money it matters little what income comes in. If the assumption that he is selling players and not signing the right ones is so he can take more money out then a boycott makes no difference.
However, if the budget is going to be a function of the season ticket (and merchandising and sponsorship) revenue (i.e. if he is going to spend x times the income) then the more fans that don't 'give' money to the club the weaker the squad will be and the more we persuade sponsors to withhold their money the weaker the squad will be.
Before I suffer the usual Dogs Abuse from those who's anger makes them determined for everyone to boycott, I'm not saying this to justify buying a season ticket or a shirt or a burger at the game. I have no idea what his plan is for spending and, frankly, nor does anyone else. It is just not possible for any of us to know, for sure, that withholding money is having no detrimental effect of the squad etc.
No dogs abuse from me because as a Charlton fan I understood the pull of going to the ground and seeing the team. However, we can be pretty sure that building a powerful team that can really challenge is not what Roland is about. We can say this because Roland and Katrien have implied this Is so and those who known him for decades have said that is not what motivates him. You may well be right in what you say and if less people boycotted then in five years time Charlton might finish fourteenth at the third level but if they do boycott we would drop to nineteenth.
My original post was more around questioning the possibility, that low attendances may give RD/KM/TK, the opportunity to close the Jimmy Seed & part redevelop it with business offices/a hotel/shops/flats, whilst putting the few hundred away fans into the sparsely populated West Stand.
Most of us had committed this time last year, and the disquiet really only began to get ramped up from something like early October. What makes the context of any protests different this time will that they will be in addition to the dramatic collapse in attendances...or at the very least the halving of the number of season ticket holders. We are about to start a new season. For the regime, managers and players winning and sustained success is the only option. Roland thinks the fans will stay loyal because of family fun days, meeting up with friends, Delaware catering? No they wont. Winning game after game home and away is the primary motivator by a factor of about a thousand. If the results are indifferent a war of attrition will probably start. It is likely to be a dirty and underhand campaign WITHIN THE LAW. The only protection Roland has will be a winning team.
I was late to jump on the Roland out bandwagon but it definitely is continuing to grow. I like many just can't work out what he is doing. It's just a strange model to have, on one hand he's done some good things at the club and when spending money on players they've generally been good in conjunction with using the academy. Then there has been the treatment of fans and the use of the network players and managers. It's as if he's got a guide on how to run a club successfully, used half of it then dropped some acid and written the rest himself. Just bizarre.
I can't see it changing, he seems too stubborn to admit he was wrong. I also don't believe he's asset stripping. He surely wouldn't make much if any at all by running the club into the ground. I agree though that hitting his pocket is the only thing that will work.
If he did develop houses etc, I think the whole protest thing will get very serious and turn very very messy. Particularly for our so called senior management team, dick head Murray and the clown himself
If he did develop houses etc, I think the whole protest thing will get very serious and turn very very messy. Particularly for our so called senior management team, dick head Murray and the clown himself
I'd bloody well hope so. Start reducing the capacity of The Valley would be a definite no holds barred signal for me.
The boycotters and as things stand I am one can but stand by and see what transpires. Leave the machinations to the renewables as they are still parting with the hard earnt. Having not that long ago done 3 seasons in FL1 just can't face a repeat performance. 5,500 or so already blinked which the Board can regard as a decent show. I don't see that many more rolling up come match day not even with a fast start. Judging by the accents there appears to be significant tourist trade but that was in SBC. The Valley will be at least two thirds empty for years to come even if we do return within 2 years to SBC. In most respects SBC wise we are barely 3rd quartile as evidenced in the past 3 seasons. A very sad state of affairs. 16 years an ST holder btw.
There's a part of me that wonders if actually rather than a boycott it should be a 'save our club by turning out in force' mentality. Dwindling attendances play into his hands potentially. If suddenly the supporters rallied behind the club, to spite its' potentially destructive owners, and you started seeing 15-20,000 at The Valley in League One, they might actually view the club with some potential rather than as a property asset.
Turn up in force, feed the pockets of Roland our owner who resides in Belgium and does not attend matches will be reported to that all is well in the land of Charlton - the piggybank is bouncing again with the weekly income and they are more than happy to pay this despite watching a below average squad with far from enough players. He'll then pull a few more strings away and sell a few more assets to replace them with youth.
We're being used, anyone that is still attending is supporting it. Leaving the Valley near empty does nothing for his case of selling it or not as the fact is we are boycotting - we aren't leaving to never be seen again.
Only RD knows what his plan is and how much he is prepared to lose. Tbh I don't think he gives a stuff about a boycott - he seems happy to lose money and the money from ticket sales is hardly going to hurt him. We're not dealing with a normal owner.
If RD has a plan to sell The Valley or more likely redevelop The Valley, such as a hotel/flats in place of/incorporated into the Jimmy Seed Stand. Does it make a difference whether we have 8,000 or 18,000 crowds ?
In other words could our boycott be counter productive ?
If we remain in League 1, with tiny away crowds coming from Shrewsbury etc and only 8,000 home crowds. The club could put the away fans in the Lower West, like on Saturday & redevelop the Jimmy Seed, reducing the capacity ?
Has he done anything similar with any of his other clubs?
As I said at the beginning of this thread and recently touched upon by razil, in the 'Is he selling' thread the former directors have charges over the land and no sales can take place without their permission or settlement of monies owed to them. Airman has spelt all this out previously.
If the club showed they cared about the boycotts and that they were genuinely a taken back by them...and felt like shit because of it....instead of Meire just smirking throughout 90mins of an empty valley, while getting one on ones with football people in the media to prove to them how great she is in all her charm she can push for the occasion she has a guest.
It maybe harder to boycott...or would be more upsetting etc.
If you don't know you can only follow your own inclination. If it feels wrong don't do it. That way at least you retain your integrity. Trying to second guess can be disastrous. Let's stay honest.
If RD has a plan to sell The Valley or more likely redevelop The Valley, such as a hotel/flats in place of/incorporated into the Jimmy Seed Stand. Does it make a difference whether we have 8,000 or 18,000 crowds ?
In other words could our boycott be counter productive ?
If we remain in League 1, with tiny away crowds coming from Shrewsbury etc and only 8,000 home crowds. The club could put the away fans in the Lower West, like on Saturday & redevelop the Jimmy Seed, reducing the capacity ?
Has he done anything similar with any of his other clubs?
Money is important to Roland. Both him and KM talk about breaking even because he believes if we do that and sell some kids he would make a profit over the course of a season.
The boycott is important because it puts a dent in his finances and makes it even harder to break even and thus harder to make a profit. I'm sure he doesn't want to keep throwing money away, therefore any way we can force him to put more in than he wants to, is a small win.
Eventually he will get fed up bankrolling the club. He cannot cut costs to the level he requires AND provide a team that is capable of getting promoted and staying in the Championship, where he believes break even is possible.
If the club showed they cared about the boycotts and that they were genuinely a taken back by them...and felt like shit because of it....instead of Meire just smirking throughout 90mins of an empty valley, while getting one on ones with football people in the media to prove to them how great she is in all her charm she can push for the occasion she has a guest.
It maybe harder to boycott...or would be more upsetting etc.
If RD has a plan to sell The Valley or more likely redevelop The Valley, such as a hotel/flats in place of/incorporated into the Jimmy Seed Stand. Does it make a difference whether we have 8,000 or 18,000 crowds ?
In other words could our boycott be counter productive ?
If we remain in League 1, with tiny away crowds coming from Shrewsbury etc and only 8,000 home crowds. The club could put the away fans in the Lower West, like on Saturday & redevelop the Jimmy Seed, reducing the capacity ?
Has he done anything similar with any of his other clubs?
Yes, at St Truiden.
Not quite they had a shit stadium when he bought them and now it is really good to be fair, but they are now indebted to the devil/snake (there fans words)
If the club showed they cared about the boycotts and that they were genuinely a taken back by them...and felt like shit because of it....instead of Meire just smirking throughout 90mins of an empty valley, while getting one on ones with football people in the media to prove to them how great she is in all her charm she can push for the occasion she has a guest.
It maybe harder to boycott...or would be more upsetting etc.
Clem is another sucker for her.
Meire 1-0 Charlton fans
Yeah but Clem is a cock.
So I think what we are saying here is Clem is a cock/sucker.
It would certainly be interesting if the ACV extends to the ground being sold to a non-club company within Roland's empire and were he to try this, the Trust or other fans could look to buy it and rent it back.
how much would we need to raise? Possibly too much. If the value were £10m, 5000 fans would need to put in an average of £2k which seems quite a lot.
True. I appreciate no one wants to put money into RD's coffers. I just am concerned that if the club seems to shrink too much he'll see that the only value remaining is in the land. No one will take on a failing football club with a big stadium getting 7,000 home supporters a week, languishing in the bottom two divisions.
I think Mametz is probably right though, in that he doesn't want to dismantle the club but just change it into an also-ran with no ambition other than to create young players, play them, and sell them for big profits.
He probably knows the money it would take, and lack of guarantee, to get CAFC into the Premier League and reap the rewards that way is so high he'd rather run CAFC as a small club with a good academy, developing and selling players on.
But anyone with knowledge of our past, the pretty unique way in which we have risen from the flames before and hence the special, loyal supporters that have seen this old club on its knees but have fought to raise it up again, will realise the full potential it has.
Keeping the protests & the antics of the current Ringmaster & his clown in the media will ensure that any prospective owner worth his/her salt will surely be assured that the stands would start to fill once more when the club was run in a sound & proper manner ?
The potential is clearly there.
And I feel certain there are investors out there now, keeping a keen eye on proceedings.
If RD has a plan to sell The Valley or more likely redevelop The Valley, such as a hotel/flats in place of/incorporated into the Jimmy Seed Stand. Does it make a difference whether we have 8,000 or 18,000 crowds ?
In other words could our boycott be counter productive ?
If we remain in League 1, with tiny away crowds coming from Shrewsbury etc and only 8,000 home crowds. The club could put the away fans in the Lower West, like on Saturday & redevelop the Jimmy Seed, reducing the capacity ?
Has he done anything similar with any of his other clubs?
Yes, at St Truiden.
Not quite they had a shit stadium when he bought them and now it is really good to be fair, but they are now indebted to the devil/snake (there fans words)
If you think their ground is really good I suggest you have not been to many grounds. A dreadful ground, you could virtually walk past it without realising it is a football stadium.
If he wants to make big money, getting to the Premier League has a much greater potential for a return than flats at the Valley. Given that he wants to retire in just a few years it seems a lot of hassle frankly.
If he wants to make big money, getting to the Premier League has a much greater potential for a return than flats at the Valley. Given that he wants to retire in just a few years it seems a lot of hassle frankly.
Yep, so begs the question what are his ulterior motives?
There's a part of me that wonders if actually rather than a boycott it should be a 'save our club by turning out in force' mentality. Dwindling attendances play into his hands potentially. If suddenly the supporters rallied behind the club, to spite its' potentially destructive owners, and you started seeing 15-20,000 at The Valley in League One, they might actually view the club with some potential rather than as a property asset.
Glad this is being discussed sensibly, I did try to ask the same question a while back, but as usual I didn't put my point/question over properly, and I apologise for that.
I tried asking that if we keep boycotting (which I am 100% supportive of) won't any asking price "if" RolandOut does decide to go be increased to near improbable costs ?
There's a part of me that wonders if actually rather than a boycott it should be a 'save our club by turning out in force' mentality. Dwindling attendances play into his hands potentially. If suddenly the supporters rallied behind the club, to spite its' potentially destructive owners, and you started seeing 15-20,000 at The Valley in League One, they might actually view the club with some potential rather than as a property asset.
Glad this is being discussed sensibly, I did try to ask the same question a while back, but as usual I didn't put my point/question over properly, and I apologise for that.
I tried asking that if we keep boycotting (which I am 100% supportive of) won't any asking price "if" RolandOut does decide to go be increased to near improbable costs ?
Roland can increase the asking price to whatever he likes, but he won't get it.
Comments
What makes the context of any protests different this time will that they will be in addition to the dramatic collapse in attendances...or at the very least the halving of the number of season ticket holders.
We are about to start a new season.
For the regime, managers and players winning and sustained success is the only option.
Roland thinks the fans will stay loyal because of family fun days, meeting up with friends, Delaware catering?
No they wont.
Winning game after game home and away is the primary motivator by a factor of about a thousand.
If the results are indifferent a war of attrition will probably start. It is likely to be a dirty and underhand campaign WITHIN THE LAW. The only protection Roland has will be a winning team.
I can't see it changing, he seems too stubborn to admit he was wrong. I also don't believe he's asset stripping. He surely wouldn't make much if any at all by running the club into the ground. I agree though that hitting his pocket is the only thing that will work.
Leave the machinations to the renewables as they are still parting with the hard earnt.
Having not that long ago done 3 seasons in FL1 just can't face a repeat performance.
5,500 or so already blinked which the Board can regard as a decent show.
I don't see that many more rolling up come match day not even with a fast start.
Judging by the accents there appears to be significant tourist trade but that was in SBC.
The Valley will be at least two thirds empty for years to come even if we do return within 2 years to SBC.
In most respects SBC wise we are barely 3rd quartile as evidenced in the past 3 seasons.
A very sad state of affairs. 16 years an ST holder btw.
We're being used, anyone that is still attending is supporting it. Leaving the Valley near empty does nothing for his case of selling it or not as the fact is we are boycotting - we aren't leaving to never be seen again.
We're not dealing with a normal owner.
It maybe harder to boycott...or would be more upsetting etc.
Clem is another sucker for her.
Meire 1-0 Charlton fans
The boycott is important because it puts a dent in his finances and makes it even harder to break even and thus harder to make a profit. I'm sure he doesn't want to keep throwing money away, therefore any way we can force him to put more in than he wants to, is a small win.
Eventually he will get fed up bankrolling the club. He cannot cut costs to the level he requires AND provide a team that is capable of getting promoted and staying in the Championship, where he believes break even is possible.
how much would we need to raise? Possibly too much. If the value were £10m, 5000 fans would need to put in an average of £2k which seems quite a lot.
Keeping the protests & the antics of the current Ringmaster & his clown in the media will ensure that any prospective owner worth his/her salt will surely be assured that the stands would start to fill once more when the club was run in a sound & proper manner ?
The potential is clearly there.
And I feel certain there are investors out there now, keeping a keen eye on proceedings.
I tried asking that if we keep boycotting (which I am 100% supportive of) won't any asking price "if" RolandOut does decide to go be increased to near improbable costs ?