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Is the boycott self defeating ?

edited August 2016 in General Charlton
If RD has a plan to sell The Valley or more likely redevelop The Valley, such as a hotel/flats in place of/incorporated into the Jimmy Seed Stand.
Does it make a difference whether we have 8,000 or 18,000 crowds ?

In other words could our boycott be counter productive ?

If we remain in League 1, with tiny away crowds coming from Shrewsbury etc and only 8,000 home crowds. The club could put the away fans in the Lower West, like on Saturday & redevelop the Jimmy Seed, reducing the capacity ?
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Comments

  • I've said it before, but this is becoming one giant game of chicken. Duchatalet is strangling Charlton to death and the fans are starving Charlton to death. Who blinks first? Will Charlton survive until then?
  • For now I think it seems to be the right course of action.
    But he's in this for the money and the buzz of business, so yes I think it is possible the boycott could be playing completely into his hands.
    Whatever he is up to, it's not about football, so if he can make money without the inconvenience of fans I'm sure he will.
  • edited August 2016

    None of us knows is the answer.

    Those that cant stop themselves from going will say what you say as a justification angle.

    On the flip side, Those that boycott say that you can't really be that outraged as you are still prepared to write a cheque to them for hundreds of pounds and give them credibility and offset their losses.

    Only one person knows what the real answer is and he won't tell anyone.

    Yes, I'm not trying to be provocative. It's just what someone more "in the know" than me said tonight, made me think, hang on are we shooting ourselves in the foot here ?

    I'm not trying to argue the case for attending, as I've said on numerous occasions, that everyone should do what they need/want to do and I respect everyone's decision.
  • edited August 2016
    It is a game of chicken but we are not the ones losing millions on an investment so if RD really is a business man then he will crack way before the fans will .
    Even if it takes 10 years we will win out.
  • To be honest half of it is surely not wanting to spend money on the uninspiring shite football being served up anyway.

  • edited August 2016
    I get your general drift CE but what difference will crowds of 18k make? The ground holds 27k. Let's assume he redevelops the Jimmy Seed that only holds 3.5k? So capacity would still be adequate at 23.5k. That would still be more than capacities at Watford, Burnley, Swansea and Bournemouth in the Prem, off the top of my head.

    Assumptions are also being made that planning will be obtained and that former directors will postpone their charges in favour of sales / creation of long leases over the land in question. Many hurdles to be overcome before any redevelopment can take place. Meanwhile hit him where it hurts, on the bottom line.
  • The Valley has been in the sights of developers before and rebuffed. Given large tranches of the peninsular have yet to be developed, I cannot see there being a commercially viable site. There would be huge access issues as well.
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  • He brought the wrong club, in a business sense.

    Tell me, how can he actually gain profit from charlton? Stripping assets? Redeveloping the valley? The training ground?

    Let's say he completely just doesn't give a shit about charlton, which evidently appears to be arguably the case, there would have been an owner prior to RD who doesn't give a shit about another club even more.

    There would have been an owner prior to RD that has done the whole asset stripping thing to target the apparent real big cheese. I know RD sees himself as Alan Turing, an original thinker, a code breaker or whatever.

    But asset stripping a club to the core of everything, for an already rich person, just sounds like so much more effort then what it's worth. So pointless.

    So redeveloping the valley...closing a stand and replacing it with hotels in his name. As one example of a possible intention.

    Ok.

    Getting permission to do that, and all what that involves, don't ask me, I ain't got a f*cking clue, but if he did do that, he would be trying to turn charlton into something it really really, is not.

    Charlton is not a holiday destination. It is also unjustifiably probably quite an expensive area to live in. The only thing it offers, apart from the football is easy access into London Central.
    Then you have a lovely parade of kebab and betting shops, oh and charlton lido.
    Don't get me wrong I still like the place. Mostly because my football club lives within it. The area of charlton is annoying stuck in my heart forever.

    Apart from the football ground, in this day an age, it's generally just a bit grey but it doesn't matter. It doesn't need a multiplex or something else to dress it up, that is not it's purpose or destiny.

    It wouldn't make any sense to anyone.

    There's your block. The soul of the area is more powerful.

    The surrounding area of the valley hardly has any space for addons that are not linked with football.

    Roland just hurry up and attempt to do what you gotta do so we can all see it f*ck up as quickly as possible, get it over with , fail again, and just sell to the highest bidder.
    Don't let your kids have the burden of owning charlton.

    Not doing anyone any favours.


  • None of us knows is the answer.

    Those that cant stop themselves from going will say what you say as a justification angle.

    On the flip side, Those that boycott say that you can't really be that outraged as you are still prepared to write a cheque to them for hundreds of pounds and give them credibility and offset their losses.

    Only one person knows what the real answer is and he won't tell anyone.

    Yes, I'm not trying to be provocative. It's just what someone more "in the know" than me said tonight, made me think, hang on are we shooting ourselves in the foot here ?

    I'm not trying to argue the case for attending, as I've said on numerous occasions, that everyone should do what they need/want to do and I respect everyone's decision.
    Unless the person you spoke to was RD, they are not more "in the know" just more "prepared to bullshit!"

    I have long been afraid of exactly what you are saying CE, however, I don't think it makes the boycott self defeating, it's exactly why it needs to be done. The more money RD loses the less any plan can work. The losses must be adding up faster than he'd ever imagined. starving RD of funds, imo, is the fastest way of getting him out.
  • Chanting outside the west stand, getting the game stopped, going out to St trinians are all good but he's not gone yet.

    Hitting him hard in the pocket may get him to sell and I will go down that route if it will force him out.
  • 3blokes said:

    For now I think it seems to be the right course of action.
    But he's in this for the money and the buzz of business, so yes I think it is possible the boycott could be playing completely into his hands.
    Whatever he is up to, it's not about football, so if he can make money without the inconvenience of fans I'm sure he will.

    The final paragraph is spot on.
  • Doesn't the following: established in 2013 before the take over have some bearing on this debate including not just sale but also development proposals?
    -----------------------------

    Charlton Athletic fans have succeeded in their attempt to have The Valley listed as an Asset of Community Value.

    The application by the Charlton Athletic Supporters' Trust was approved by Greenwich Council, and means the group must be notified if the ground is to be sold.

    "An ACV recognises how important The Valley is to the local community," CAS Trust chairman Barnie Razzell said.

    "It is our hope that we will not ever have to use the legislation."

    What is an Asset of Community Value (ACV) and how does a listing work?
    A building, or other land, is an asset of community value if its main use is, or has recently been, to "further the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community" and it could do so in the future
    The request must come from a voluntary or community body with a local connection and relate to land in the local authority's area, or in the neighbouring local authority's area.

    The listing lasts for five years and also includes should the stadium be put up for sale, a 'right to bid', which can be lodged by the group concerned within a period of six weeks, with finance secured in a period of up to four-and-a-half months
    He added: "Fans will now have a right in law to participate in any discussion about the future of football at The Valley."
  • Nobody knows, but I'm glad it's being mentioned again ;)
  • There's a part of me that wonders if actually rather than a boycott it should be a 'save our club by turning out in force' mentality. Dwindling attendances play into his hands potentially. If suddenly the supporters rallied behind the club, to spite its' potentially destructive owners, and you started seeing 15-20,000 at The Valley in League One, they might actually view the club with some potential rather than as a property asset.
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  • For me it's not self defeating, but I understand lots of supporters will find it hard to boycott.
    I don't think he has plans to re develop the ground, I just think he has no idea how to run a football club never listens to anyone else, his way is right.
    I just hope he gives up soon and sells
  • edited August 2016

    None of us knows is the answer.

    Those that cant stop themselves from going will say what you say as a justification angle.

    On the flip side, Those that boycott say that you can't really be that outraged as you are still prepared to write a cheque to them for hundreds of pounds and give them credibility and offset their losses.

    Only one person knows what the real answer is and he won't tell anyone.

    Yes, I'm not trying to be provocative. It's just what someone more "in the know" than me said tonight, made me think, hang on are we shooting ourselves in the foot here ?

    I'm not trying to argue the case for attending, as I've said on numerous occasions, that everyone should do what they need/want to do and I respect everyone's decision.
    With all due respect, unless that person is Roland, I would say he can't possibly be more in the know than you or anybody on here! As has been said, it is a judgement for people to make. For this owner and CEO to make the decisions and show the ineptitude and disrespect towards everything our great club stands for warrants a response IMO. It is hard for us because we love the club, but for me and many others, the point has been reached where we have to fight for our club against this evil or total incompetence. Either way, we can't just sit on our hands! I have great faith that the leadership of CARD is tactically and intellectually superior to our owner (who is clearly mad) and our CEO (who has clearly aligned her career to him). I will follow CARD's lead and believe that at some point, we will win this battle. I hope what is left of the club at the point is savable. I'm sure it will be. We have previous in terms of climbing out of adversity!
  • Splodge said:

    There's a part of me that wonders if actually rather than a boycott it should be a 'save our club by turning out in force' mentality. Dwindling attendances play into his hands potentially. If suddenly the supporters rallied behind the club, to spite its' potentially destructive owners, and you started seeing 15-20,000 at The Valley in League One, they might actually view the club with some potential rather than as a property asset.

    The problem is he will probably see that as 'look, we have 20,000 fans here, so everything must be going swimmingly well. Target 20k is working, I am a genius!'
  • True. I appreciate no one wants to put money into RD's coffers. I just am concerned that if the club seems to shrink too much he'll see that the only value remaining is in the land. No one will take on a failing football club with a big stadium getting 7,000 home supporters a week, languishing in the bottom two divisions.

    I think Mametz is probably right though, in that he doesn't want to dismantle the club but just change it into an also-ran with no ambition other than to create young players, play them, and sell them for big profits.

    He probably knows the money it would take, and lack of guarantee, to get CAFC into the Premier League and reap the rewards that way is so high he'd rather run CAFC as a small club with a good academy, developing and selling players on.
  • edited August 2016


    I don't think he has plans to re develop the ground

    Well we know for a FACT, that at the very least there are drawings for The Jimmy Seed Stand, incorporating non football activities. So I suppose you could argue that at the very least this is being considered, if not concrete plans as yet.
  • None of us knows is the answer.

    Those that cant stop themselves from going will say what you say as a justification angle.

    On the flip side, Those that boycott say that you can't really be that outraged as you are still prepared to write a cheque to them for hundreds of pounds and give them credibility and offset their losses.

    Only one person knows what the real answer is and he won't tell anyone.

    BDL?

  • He has managed to balance his budget this year by player sales, despite under-valuing most ditto last year. If we don't go up next year, he will find it harder. Our assets will be Lookie, a hopefully rejuvinated Igor (but playing in a backwater) and Kashi, Bauer and any of the newbies that have a good season, perhaps Fox & Cally. Their L1 prices will be a third of Champ value. And that's assuming any of the above don't go this season or get injured.
  • edited August 2016
    For me the only dilemma (ignoring the atmosphere at The Valley) revolves around the budget for players. It seems to be assumed that the income has no bearing on the player budget. I can see why this is assumed as Roland has so much money it matters little what income comes in. If the assumption that he is selling players and not signing the right ones is so he can take more money out then a boycott makes no difference.

    However, if the budget is going to be a function of the season ticket (and merchandising and sponsorship) revenue (i.e. if he is going to spend x times the income) then the more fans that don't 'give' money to the club the weaker the squad will be and the more we persuade sponsors to withhold their money the weaker the squad will be.

    Before I suffer the usual Dogs Abuse from those who's anger makes them determined for everyone to boycott, I'm not saying this to justify buying a season ticket or a shirt or a burger at the game. I have no idea what his plan is for spending and, frankly, nor does anyone else. It is just not possible for any of us to know, for sure, that withholding money is having no detrimental effect of the squad etc.
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Roland Out Forever!