Good stuff as always, @Dippenhall. I do use Trustnet, but wasn't aware of how to use it in the way you illustrate. But I did not get how to interpet the Alpha Beta ratios, to come to a conclusion, could you expand a little on that?
Every time I open up H-L and see the name "Hargreaves" I am reminded not just of their profit margins, but what Peter Hargreaves did with a lot of that profit...it hurts, that. But overall in terms of functionality it has stayed ahead of Fidelity IMO (I was using both) and is way ahead of some cheaper ones. I set up with AXA for my niece. It is dire. But it's cheap. The hope is that Vanguard will eventually force H-L to reduce fees, but I am not sure how that is shaping up.
I generally take your point about IFAs. Of course my ex mate the ex second hand car dealer/horse punter probably would not get licensed nowadays. It's also true that when I parted company with the second one, I had both the appetite and the time on my hands to pay a lot of attention, regularly, to my savings. Most people are not like that, and potentially IFAs provide a valuable service to such people.
If you are paying for active global management and you get a Beta of 1 against say the World MSCI index you are paying through the nose for tracker performance. A good active manager's characteristic is a negative Beta and a high Sharpe ratio. The Alpha number shows the return relative to the risk taken. If the Alpha is less than 1 it means risk has been taken with no reward. Higher than 1 means the reward is generated at low risk.
@Rob7Lee You don't need me to tell you that the Vanguard big pitch is the ultra low fees they charge that take a nibble out of your gains in all funds. So when you compare Vanguard Life strategy to the above funds you mentioned, are the performance figures in all cases after fees? ( I don't know, it seems a very murky area, which Vanguard are trying to disrupt)
I also think you have selected there some funds that ought to do a lot better than Vanguard LS, because they are much higher risk. I think someone like @kimbo would want some solid lower risk funds alongside those you have mentioned.
I don't know @kimbo risk appetite hence at the start suggesting an IFA. My own view on the risk of those funds maybe isn't as high as yours (or Kimbo's) paying in a regular mostly amount over a long period removes a lot of that risk IMHO as you are buying monthly through a cycle/the long term.
Returns I think are after charges, but would need to check.
Yes Vanguard have lower fee's than the funds I mentioned, but other trackers also do, L&G have the lowest, half the vanguard rate in many instances. I'd rather invest in a fund that has a 5 year average of 10%+ that takes 0.75% charge than one that has an average of 4% with a 0.25% charge.
The difficulty with having more funds is limited by the £250 monthly amount.
@Rob7Lee You don't need me to tell you that the Vanguard big pitch is the ultra low fees they charge that take a nibble out of your gains in all funds. So when you compare Vanguard Life strategy to the above funds you mentioned, are the performance figures in all cases after fees? ( I don't know, it seems a very murky area, which Vanguard are trying to disrupt)
I also think you have selected there some funds that ought to do a lot better than Vanguard LS, because they are much higher risk. I think someone like @kimbo would want some solid lower risk funds alongside those you have mentioned.
I don't know @kimbo risk appetite hence at the start suggesting an IFA. My own view on the risk of those funds maybe isn't as high as yours (or Kimbo's) paying in a regular mostly amount over a long period removes a lot of that risk IMHO as you are buying monthly through a cycle/the long term.
Returns I think are after charges, but would need to check.
Yes Vanguard have lower fee's than the funds I mentioned, but other trackers also do, L&G have the lowest, half the vanguard rate in many instances. I'd rather invest in a fund that has a 5 year average of 10%+ that takes 0.75% charge than one that has an average of 4% with a 0.25% charge.
The difficulty with having more funds is limited by the £250 monthly amount.
Thanks all. You are right I need a IFA despite being a FD I have very limited experience with investments.
This won't make @golfaddick happy but I am not sure whether with the amounts you want to invest, and the regular payments you intend, an IFA would give you value for money. I reckon you could read up, chooses cautious and low cost funds, and start to build up your investments yourself, and nothing bad will happen. I think once you have built up a sizeable pot of money, maybe 5k plus, it might be worth getting one who comes recommended to do a one off review of your investments. But that's all, I think. It is so much easier nowadays for people to invest directly in funds and stay on top of their progress. The most user friendly and comprehensive funds supermarkets are Fidelity, and Hargreaves Lansdowne, which I use.
Yes, too bloody right it wont make me happy. I have almost 30 years experience of advising clients on their investments & firmly believe my help & advice has benefited my clients greatly. To me it makes not one jot how much or how little someone has to invest. Everybody needs to start somewhere.....whether you can afford £25 pm or £250 pm. Good financial planning doesn't need to cost the earth & everybody should know about risk v return, cash deposits v investments. This can not simply be gained by reading What Investment or logging onto Comparethemarket.com. Everbody's needs are different & what may suit one person may not suit another. I am always happy to advise potential clients on the best places to invest / save & I never charge for an initial appointment. OP....feel free to PM me & I'll see what I can do.
typical remainer.....
well, when choosing products and services everyone is guided by their previous experience. Here is mine when it comes to IFAs:
The first one, starting back in the early 90s was a mate, always seen as a bit of a rogue within my gang. He lost his job as Sales Director of British Car Auctions, drifted a bit and then, suddenly he was an IFA. When he wasn't punting on the horses, anyway. Unwisely I let him loose on my Mum, he invested her in an Exeter fund which went tits up and he completely failed to take responsibility. I had to go through official channels myself, and eventually got my Mum's money back. He's no longer an IFA (nor a mate).
Second one I took on based on friends' advice and he did a good job in restructuring what I had; like I said, a one -off job which was well worth the fee. However he then wanted to manage my funds going forward and I found he was never proactive; indeed in times of market turbulenec it was often a week before I heard back from him re "what should we do?". I also discovered that despite him claiming he was fee based, he was earning a regular take from AJ Bell where he placed my pension funds. Not a lot of money but it's the principal. You can't be half pregnant, nor half transparent. In the end I thought I'll manage this myself because then I only have myself to answer to.
Third was a cousin who said he would help with something re my Mum in the last year of her life. Totally failed to do anything he promised, (yes we were prepared to pay). Again we sorted it all ourselves.
That's my experience. Although I've also been an observer of the so-called IFAs in Prague, the same breed that @Bangkokaddick and @QatarNapsy refer to. Shameless cowboys, the lot of them. They all have one other thing in common. They are all British. Hey, perhaps Brexit has an upside after all, they might all have to eff off out of here.
sorry but I personally wouldn't use friends/family for such matters because a) if it goes tits up it's awkward and b) I don't want them knowing my financial business. Maybe that's just me.
@Rob7Lee You don't need me to tell you that the Vanguard big pitch is the ultra low fees they charge that take a nibble out of your gains in all funds. So when you compare Vanguard Life strategy to the above funds you mentioned, are the performance figures in all cases after fees? ( I don't know, it seems a very murky area, which Vanguard are trying to disrupt)
I also think you have selected there some funds that ought to do a lot better than Vanguard LS, because they are much higher risk. I think someone like @kimbo would want some solid lower risk funds alongside those you have mentioned.
I don't know @kimbo risk appetite hence at the start suggesting an IFA. My own view on the risk of those funds maybe isn't as high as yours (or Kimbo's) paying in a regular mostly amount over a long period removes a lot of that risk IMHO as you are buying monthly through a cycle/the long term.
Returns I think are after charges, but would need to check.
Yes Vanguard have lower fee's than the funds I mentioned, but other trackers also do, L&G have the lowest, half the vanguard rate in many instances. I'd rather invest in a fund that has a 5 year average of 10%+ that takes 0.75% charge than one that has an average of 4% with a 0.25% charge.
The difficulty with having more funds is limited by the £250 monthly amount.
@Rob7Lee You don't need me to tell you that the Vanguard big pitch is the ultra low fees they charge that take a nibble out of your gains in all funds. So when you compare Vanguard Life strategy to the above funds you mentioned, are the performance figures in all cases after fees? ( I don't know, it seems a very murky area, which Vanguard are trying to disrupt)
I also think you have selected there some funds that ought to do a lot better than Vanguard LS, because they are much higher risk. I think someone like @kimbo would want some solid lower risk funds alongside those you have mentioned.
I don't know @kimbo risk appetite hence at the start suggesting an IFA. My own view on the risk of those funds maybe isn't as high as yours (or Kimbo's) paying in a regular mostly amount over a long period removes a lot of that risk IMHO as you are buying monthly through a cycle/the long term.
Returns I think are after charges, but would need to check.
Yes Vanguard have lower fee's than the funds I mentioned, but other trackers also do, L&G have the lowest, half the vanguard rate in many instances. I'd rather invest in a fund that has a 5 year average of 10%+ that takes 0.75% charge than one that has an average of 4% with a 0.25% charge.
The difficulty with having more funds is limited by the £250 monthly amount.
Thanks all. You are right I need a IFA despite being a FD I have very limited experience with investments.
This won't make @golfaddick happy but I am not sure whether with the amounts you want to invest, and the regular payments you intend, an IFA would give you value for money. I reckon you could read up, chooses cautious and low cost funds, and start to build up your investments yourself, and nothing bad will happen. I think once you have built up a sizeable pot of money, maybe 5k plus, it might be worth getting one who comes recommended to do a one off review of your investments. But that's all, I think. It is so much easier nowadays for people to invest directly in funds and stay on top of their progress. The most user friendly and comprehensive funds supermarkets are Fidelity, and Hargreaves Lansdowne, which I use.
Yes, too bloody right it wont make me happy. I have almost 30 years experience of advising clients on their investments & firmly believe my help & advice has benefited my clients greatly. To me it makes not one jot how much or how little someone has to invest. Everybody needs to start somewhere.....whether you can afford £25 pm or £250 pm. Good financial planning doesn't need to cost the earth & everybody should know about risk v return, cash deposits v investments. This can not simply be gained by reading What Investment or logging onto Comparethemarket.com. Everbody's needs are different & what may suit one person may not suit another. I am always happy to advise potential clients on the best places to invest / save & I never charge for an initial appointment. OP....feel free to PM me & I'll see what I can do.
typical remainer.....
well, when choosing products and services everyone is guided by their previous experience. Here is mine when it comes to IFAs:
The first one, starting back in the early 90s was a mate, always seen as a bit of a rogue within my gang. He lost his job as Sales Director of British Car Auctions, drifted a bit and then, suddenly he was an IFA. When he wasn't punting on the horses, anyway. Unwisely I let him loose on my Mum, he invested her in an Exeter fund which went tits up and he completely failed to take responsibility. I had to go through official channels myself, and eventually got my Mum's money back. He's no longer an IFA (nor a mate).
Second one I took on based on friends' advice and he did a good job in restructuring what I had; like I said, a one -off job which was well worth the fee. However he then wanted to manage my funds going forward and I found he was never proactive; indeed in times of market turbulenec it was often a week before I heard back from him re "what should we do?". I also discovered that despite him claiming he was fee based, he was earning a regular take from AJ Bell where he placed my pension funds. Not a lot of money but it's the principal. You can't be half pregnant, nor half transparent. In the end I thought I'll manage this myself because then I only have myself to answer to.
Third was a cousin who said he would help with something re my Mum in the last year of her life. Totally failed to do anything he promised, (yes we were prepared to pay). Again we sorted it all ourselves.
That's my experience. Although I've also been an observer of the so-called IFAs in Prague, the same breed that @Bangkokaddick and @QatarNapsy refer to. Shameless cowboys, the lot of them. They all have one other thing in common. They are all British. Hey, perhaps Brexit has an upside after all, they might all have to eff off out of here.
sorry but I personally wouldn't use friends/family for such matters because a) if it goes tits up it's awkward and b) I don't want them knowing my financial business. Maybe that's just me.
Good stuff as always, @Dippenhall. I do use Trustnet, but wasn't aware of how to use it in the way you illustrate. But I did not get how to interpet the Alpha Beta ratios, to come to a conclusion, could you expand a little on that?
Every time I open up H-L and see the name "Hargreaves" I am reminded not just of their profit margins, but what Peter Hargreaves did with a lot of that profit...it hurts, that. But overall in terms of functionality it has stayed ahead of Fidelity IMO (I was using both) and is way ahead of some cheaper ones. I set up with AXA for my niece. It is dire. But it's cheap. The hope is that Vanguard will eventually force H-L to reduce fees, but I am not sure how that is shaping up.
I generally take your point about IFAs. Of course my ex mate the ex second hand car dealer/horse punter probably would not get licensed nowadays. It's also true that when I parted company with the second one, I had both the appetite and the time on my hands to pay a lot of attention, regularly, to my savings. Most people are not like that, and potentially IFAs provide a valuable service to such people.
If you are paying for active global management and you get a Beta of 1 against say the World MSCI index you are paying through the nose for tracker performance. A good active manager's characteristic is a negative Beta and a high Sharpe ratio. The Alpha number shows the return relative to the risk taken. If the Alpha is less than 1 it means risk has been taken with no reward. Higher than 1 means the reward is generated at low risk.
The problem is that it is near impossible for a regular retail investor to work out whether historic alpha generation was down to skill (and thus potentially persistent) or luck (and thus not only unlikely to persist but very likely to reverse).
Good stuff as always, @Dippenhall. I do use Trustnet, but wasn't aware of how to use it in the way you illustrate. But I did not get how to interpet the Alpha Beta ratios, to come to a conclusion, could you expand a little on that?
Every time I open up H-L and see the name "Hargreaves" I am reminded not just of their profit margins, but what Peter Hargreaves did with a lot of that profit...it hurts, that. But overall in terms of functionality it has stayed ahead of Fidelity IMO (I was using both) and is way ahead of some cheaper ones. I set up with AXA for my niece. It is dire. But it's cheap. The hope is that Vanguard will eventually force H-L to reduce fees, but I am not sure how that is shaping up.
I generally take your point about IFAs. Of course my ex mate the ex second hand car dealer/horse punter probably would not get licensed nowadays. It's also true that when I parted company with the second one, I had both the appetite and the time on my hands to pay a lot of attention, regularly, to my savings. Most people are not like that, and potentially IFAs provide a valuable service to such people.
If you are paying for active global management and you get a Beta of 1 against say the World MSCI index you are paying through the nose for tracker performance. A good active manager's characteristic is a negative Beta and a high Sharpe ratio. The Alpha number shows the return relative to the risk taken. If the Alpha is less than 1 it means risk has been taken with no reward. Higher than 1 means the reward is generated at low risk.
The problem is that it is near impossible for a regular retail investor to work out whether historic alpha generation was down to skill (and thus potentially persistent) or luck (and thus not only unlikely to persist but very likely to reverse).
Can't disagree but attribution analysis is a specialist service anyway that only comes with corporate investment consultancy services as part of the fancy fees analysing short term performance and providing ammunition to challenge fund managers tempted to gain credit for being lucky.
Luck is always a contributory factor, and will even out over time, and as long as you don't take decisions on a short measurement period luck is not going to be that material. One lucky year in three often over eggs the three year average figure but it should stick out like a sore thumb. Statistics suggest that 5% of long term outcome is down to luck, so out of an 8% p.a long term performance only 0.4% p.a is attributed to good luck and would be 7.6% if the luck was negative. It's about the same percentage that's attributable to manager skill. Asset class selection historically has determined 90% of the attribution to overall performance when comparing luck and skill and asset class selection.
Sorry to hear @PragueAddick of your past misfortunes.... yes, financial advice in the 90's was predominately run by ex car / double glazing salesmen......with the emphasis on sales. Any training was 80/20 split on sales techniques rather than products or knowledge.
However, it has moved on from there & with the onset of RDR & fees instead of commission ( and the fact that I have sat 4 different sets if exams ovet the past 25 years) I truely believe the shysters of yesteryear are long gone.
My biggest concern over the IFA v DIY debate that I pick up on here is that it shouldn't be about cost or outperformance of funds, but more about the knowledge that I bring to the table about different products that are available & the different tax strategies out there. Anyone can check Trustnet to see how Woodfords funds are (not) doing or that Baillie Gifford have one of the best US funds going......but do you know about Structured Products.....or how an Investment Bond can pay up to 5% tax "free" to a basic rate taxpayer, at the same time as sheltering any gains from IHT if put into a DGT.
Too many people are ignorant on what is out there & are purely looking at the % gain they are making.
@Rob7Lee You don't need me to tell you that the Vanguard big pitch is the ultra low fees they charge that take a nibble out of your gains in all funds. So when you compare Vanguard Life strategy to the above funds you mentioned, are the performance figures in all cases after fees? ( I don't know, it seems a very murky area, which Vanguard are trying to disrupt)
I also think you have selected there some funds that ought to do a lot better than Vanguard LS, because they are much higher risk. I think someone like @kimbo would want some solid lower risk funds alongside those you have mentioned.
I don't know @kimbo risk appetite hence at the start suggesting an IFA. My own view on the risk of those funds maybe isn't as high as yours (or Kimbo's) paying in a regular mostly amount over a long period removes a lot of that risk IMHO as you are buying monthly through a cycle/the long term.
Returns I think are after charges, but would need to check.
Yes Vanguard have lower fee's than the funds I mentioned, but other trackers also do, L&G have the lowest, half the vanguard rate in many instances. I'd rather invest in a fund that has a 5 year average of 10%+ that takes 0.75% charge than one that has an average of 4% with a 0.25% charge.
The difficulty with having more funds is limited by the £250 monthly amount.
@Rob7Lee You don't need me to tell you that the Vanguard big pitch is the ultra low fees they charge that take a nibble out of your gains in all funds. So when you compare Vanguard Life strategy to the above funds you mentioned, are the performance figures in all cases after fees? ( I don't know, it seems a very murky area, which Vanguard are trying to disrupt)
I also think you have selected there some funds that ought to do a lot better than Vanguard LS, because they are much higher risk. I think someone like @kimbo would want some solid lower risk funds alongside those you have mentioned.
I don't know @kimbo risk appetite hence at the start suggesting an IFA. My own view on the risk of those funds maybe isn't as high as yours (or Kimbo's) paying in a regular mostly amount over a long period removes a lot of that risk IMHO as you are buying monthly through a cycle/the long term.
Returns I think are after charges, but would need to check.
Yes Vanguard have lower fee's than the funds I mentioned, but other trackers also do, L&G have the lowest, half the vanguard rate in many instances. I'd rather invest in a fund that has a 5 year average of 10%+ that takes 0.75% charge than one that has an average of 4% with a 0.25% charge.
The difficulty with having more funds is limited by the £250 monthly amount.
Thanks all. You are right I need a IFA despite being a FD I have very limited experience with investments.
This won't make @golfaddick happy but I am not sure whether with the amounts you want to invest, and the regular payments you intend, an IFA would give you value for money. I reckon you could read up, chooses cautious and low cost funds, and start to build up your investments yourself, and nothing bad will happen. I think once you have built up a sizeable pot of money, maybe 5k plus, it might be worth getting one who comes recommended to do a one off review of your investments. But that's all, I think. It is so much easier nowadays for people to invest directly in funds and stay on top of their progress. The most user friendly and comprehensive funds supermarkets are Fidelity, and Hargreaves Lansdowne, which I use.
Yes, too bloody right it wont make me happy. I have almost 30 years experience of advising clients on their investments & firmly believe my help & advice has benefited my clients greatly. To me it makes not one jot how much or how little someone has to invest. Everybody needs to start somewhere.....whether you can afford £25 pm or £250 pm. Good financial planning doesn't need to cost the earth & everybody should know about risk v return, cash deposits v investments. This can not simply be gained by reading What Investment or logging onto Comparethemarket.com. Everbody's needs are different & what may suit one person may not suit another. I am always happy to advise potential clients on the best places to invest / save & I never charge for an initial appointment. OP....feel free to PM me & I'll see what I can do.
typical remainer.....
well, when choosing products and services everyone is guided by their previous experience. Here is mine when it comes to IFAs:
The first one, starting back in the early 90s was a mate, always seen as a bit of a rogue within my gang. He lost his job as Sales Director of British Car Auctions, drifted a bit and then, suddenly he was an IFA. When he wasn't punting on the horses, anyway. Unwisely I let him loose on my Mum, he invested her in an Exeter fund which went tits up and he completely failed to take responsibility. I had to go through official channels myself, and eventually got my Mum's money back. He's no longer an IFA (nor a mate).
Second one I took on based on friends' advice and he did a good job in restructuring what I had; like I said, a one -off job which was well worth the fee. However he then wanted to manage my funds going forward and I found he was never proactive; indeed in times of market turbulenec it was often a week before I heard back from him re "what should we do?". I also discovered that despite him claiming he was fee based, he was earning a regular take from AJ Bell where he placed my pension funds. Not a lot of money but it's the principal. You can't be half pregnant, nor half transparent. In the end I thought I'll manage this myself because then I only have myself to answer to.
Third was a cousin who said he would help with something re my Mum in the last year of her life. Totally failed to do anything he promised, (yes we were prepared to pay). Again we sorted it all ourselves.
That's my experience. Although I've also been an observer of the so-called IFAs in Prague, the same breed that @Bangkokaddick and @QatarNapsy refer to. Shameless cowboys, the lot of them. They all have one other thing in common. They are all British. Hey, perhaps Brexit has an upside after all, they might all have to eff off out of here.
sorry but I personally wouldn't use friends/family for such matters because a) if it goes tits up it's awkward and b) I don't want them knowing my financial business. Maybe that's just me.
Basically he doesn’t trust you Golfie and he’s a bit slippery about his wealth, so don’t believe a word he says
Sorry to hear @PragueAddick of your past misfortunes.... yes, financial advice in the 90's was predominately run by ex car / double glazing salesmen......with the emphasis on sales. Any training was 80/20 split on sales techniques rather than products or knowledge.
However, it has moved on from there & with the onset of RDR & fees instead of commission ( and the fact that I have sat 4 different sets if exams ovet the past 25 years) I truely believe the shysters of yesteryear are long gone.
The shysters of yesteryear are now based in Bangkok, Prague, Qatar and anywhere else they might find gullible expats.
Sorry to hear @PragueAddick of your past misfortunes.... yes, financial advice in the 90's was predominately run by ex car / double glazing salesmen......with the emphasis on sales. Any training was 80/20 split on sales techniques rather than products or knowledge.
However, it has moved on from there & with the onset of RDR & fees instead of commission ( and the fact that I have sat 4 different sets if exams ovet the past 25 years) I truely believe the shysters of yesteryear are long gone.
The shysters of yesteryear are now based in Bangkok, Prague, Qatar and anywhere else they might find gullible expats.
Took an interest in Financial services out here since finding out i was lining someone else's pockets instead of mine. Anyway, it seems that companies like DeVere offer a 2 week training course to become 'advisors' before letting them loose on the general public. On top of that they promote plans from the likes of Zurich, Generali and Friends Provident that were banned in the UK years ago. Shysters indeed.
@Rob7Lee You don't need me to tell you that the Vanguard big pitch is the ultra low fees they charge that take a nibble out of your gains in all funds. So when you compare Vanguard Life strategy to the above funds you mentioned, are the performance figures in all cases after fees? ( I don't know, it seems a very murky area, which Vanguard are trying to disrupt)
I also think you have selected there some funds that ought to do a lot better than Vanguard LS, because they are much higher risk. I think someone like @kimbo would want some solid lower risk funds alongside those you have mentioned.
I don't know @kimbo risk appetite hence at the start suggesting an IFA. My own view on the risk of those funds maybe isn't as high as yours (or Kimbo's) paying in a regular mostly amount over a long period removes a lot of that risk IMHO as you are buying monthly through a cycle/the long term.
Returns I think are after charges, but would need to check.
Yes Vanguard have lower fee's than the funds I mentioned, but other trackers also do, L&G have the lowest, half the vanguard rate in many instances. I'd rather invest in a fund that has a 5 year average of 10%+ that takes 0.75% charge than one that has an average of 4% with a 0.25% charge.
The difficulty with having more funds is limited by the £250 monthly amount.
@Rob7Lee You don't need me to tell you that the Vanguard big pitch is the ultra low fees they charge that take a nibble out of your gains in all funds. So when you compare Vanguard Life strategy to the above funds you mentioned, are the performance figures in all cases after fees? ( I don't know, it seems a very murky area, which Vanguard are trying to disrupt)
I also think you have selected there some funds that ought to do a lot better than Vanguard LS, because they are much higher risk. I think someone like @kimbo would want some solid lower risk funds alongside those you have mentioned.
I don't know @kimbo risk appetite hence at the start suggesting an IFA. My own view on the risk of those funds maybe isn't as high as yours (or Kimbo's) paying in a regular mostly amount over a long period removes a lot of that risk IMHO as you are buying monthly through a cycle/the long term.
Returns I think are after charges, but would need to check.
Yes Vanguard have lower fee's than the funds I mentioned, but other trackers also do, L&G have the lowest, half the vanguard rate in many instances. I'd rather invest in a fund that has a 5 year average of 10%+ that takes 0.75% charge than one that has an average of 4% with a 0.25% charge.
The difficulty with having more funds is limited by the £250 monthly amount.
Thanks all. You are right I need a IFA despite being a FD I have very limited experience with investments.
This won't make @golfaddick happy but I am not sure whether with the amounts you want to invest, and the regular payments you intend, an IFA would give you value for money. I reckon you could read up, chooses cautious and low cost funds, and start to build up your investments yourself, and nothing bad will happen. I think once you have built up a sizeable pot of money, maybe 5k plus, it might be worth getting one who comes recommended to do a one off review of your investments. But that's all, I think. It is so much easier nowadays for people to invest directly in funds and stay on top of their progress. The most user friendly and comprehensive funds supermarkets are Fidelity, and Hargreaves Lansdowne, which I use.
Yes, too bloody right it wont make me happy. I have almost 30 years experience of advising clients on their investments & firmly believe my help & advice has benefited my clients greatly. To me it makes not one jot how much or how little someone has to invest. Everybody needs to start somewhere.....whether you can afford £25 pm or £250 pm. Good financial planning doesn't need to cost the earth & everybody should know about risk v return, cash deposits v investments. This can not simply be gained by reading What Investment or logging onto Comparethemarket.com. Everbody's needs are different & what may suit one person may not suit another. I am always happy to advise potential clients on the best places to invest / save & I never charge for an initial appointment. OP....feel free to PM me & I'll see what I can do.
typical remainer.....
well, when choosing products and services everyone is guided by their previous experience. Here is mine when it comes to IFAs:
The first one, starting back in the early 90s was a mate, always seen as a bit of a rogue within my gang. He lost his job as Sales Director of British Car Auctions, drifted a bit and then, suddenly he was an IFA. When he wasn't punting on the horses, anyway. Unwisely I let him loose on my Mum, he invested her in an Exeter fund which went tits up and he completely failed to take responsibility. I had to go through official channels myself, and eventually got my Mum's money back. He's no longer an IFA (nor a mate).
Second one I took on based on friends' advice and he did a good job in restructuring what I had; like I said, a one -off job which was well worth the fee. However he then wanted to manage my funds going forward and I found he was never proactive; indeed in times of market turbulenec it was often a week before I heard back from him re "what should we do?". I also discovered that despite him claiming he was fee based, he was earning a regular take from AJ Bell where he placed my pension funds. Not a lot of money but it's the principal. You can't be half pregnant, nor half transparent. In the end I thought I'll manage this myself because then I only have myself to answer to.
Third was a cousin who said he would help with something re my Mum in the last year of her life. Totally failed to do anything he promised, (yes we were prepared to pay). Again we sorted it all ourselves.
That's my experience. Although I've also been an observer of the so-called IFAs in Prague, the same breed that @Bangkokaddick and @QatarNapsy refer to. Shameless cowboys, the lot of them. They all have one other thing in common. They are all British. Hey, perhaps Brexit has an upside after all, they might all have to eff off out of here.
sorry but I personally wouldn't use friends/family for such matters because a) if it goes tits up it's awkward and b) I don't want them knowing my financial business. Maybe that's just me.
Basically he doesn’t trust you Golfie and he’s a bit slippery about his wealth, so don’t believe a word he says
If you ask him nicely he will admit that I have helped him on a couple occasions over the last fews years.....not directly, for as he says, deaing with family members can be a bit tricky....esp when they are bigger than you....
Sorry to hear @PragueAddick of your past misfortunes.... yes, financial advice in the 90's was predominately run by ex car / double glazing salesmen......with the emphasis on sales. Any training was 80/20 split on sales techniques rather than products or knowledge.
However, it has moved on from there & with the onset of RDR & fees instead of commission ( and the fact that I have sat 4 different sets if exams ovet the past 25 years) I truely believe the shysters of yesteryear are long gone.
My biggest concern over the IFA v DIY debate that I pick up on here is that it shouldn't be about cost or outperformance of funds, but more about the knowledge that I bring to the table about different products that are available & the different tax strategies out there. Anyone can check Trustnet to see how Woodfords funds are (not) doing or that Baillie Gifford have one of the best US funds going......but do you know about Structured Products.....or how an Investment Bond can pay up to 5% tax "free" to a basic rate taxpayer, at the same time as sheltering any gains from IHT if put into a DGT.
Too many people are ignorant on what is out there & are purely looking at the % gain they are making.
I would like to add that, in my experience the IFAs that got themselves into trouble did so largely on the back of their mortgage broking business rather than their investment advice. (Although there were always the occasional exceptions who got suckered into promoting unauthorised schemes to punters.)
I had to laugh about car salesmen too! A quick browse of the FCA's final notices will show that these days almost everyone (apart from Barclays Bank) getting into trouble with their regulator is indeed a car salesman falling foul of the consumer credit regs.
Sorry to hear @PragueAddick of your past misfortunes.... yes, financial advice in the 90's was predominately run by ex car / double glazing salesmen......with the emphasis on sales. Any training was 80/20 split on sales techniques rather than products or knowledge.
However, it has moved on from there & with the onset of RDR & fees instead of commission ( and the fact that I have sat 4 different sets if exams ovet the past 25 years) I truely believe the shysters of yesteryear are long gone.
My biggest concern over the IFA v DIY debate that I pick up on here is that it shouldn't be about cost or outperformance of funds, but more about the knowledge that I bring to the table about different products that are available & the different tax strategies out there. Anyone can check Trustnet to see how Woodfords funds are (not) doing or that Baillie Gifford have one of the best US funds going......but do you know about Structured Products.....or how an Investment Bond can pay up to 5% tax "free" to a basic rate taxpayer, at the same time as sheltering any gains from IHT if put into a DGT.
Too many people are ignorant on what is out there & are purely looking at the % gain they are making.
I do take your point, Golfie. The "modern" IFA whom I parted company with has clearly done a good job for a couple of friends of mine who don't have the appetite to look more or less daily at what the markets and global economies are doing and what the possible personal implications are. And whether I made the right choice, remains to be seen. I did discover too late for example that one fund he had put me in as the basis for the pension pot - an SEI - fund - is not available to normal retail punters. But he made a big thing about his transparency, fees only, all up front and declared -only for me to discover that he was getting a little regular fee from AJ Bell which came out of my pension pot. As it happens, clients make similar complaints about advertising agencies.
I do still wonder how an IFA would charge somebody who would simply wish to put away £250/month, because an IFA would need to spend time talking with the client in order to be able to offer good solid advice. And in your business as in mine, time is money. But at the same time, it's not fair to expect you to answer, it's a general question about how IFAs legitimately charge to help "ordinary" retail clients.
@QatarNapsy DeVere. Those bastards. Infesting Prague since Vaclav Havel took the Castle.
Sorry to hear @PragueAddick of your past misfortunes.... yes, financial advice in the 90's was predominately run by ex car / double glazing salesmen......with the emphasis on sales. Any training was 80/20 split on sales techniques rather than products or knowledge.
However, it has moved on from there & with the onset of RDR & fees instead of commission ( and the fact that I have sat 4 different sets if exams ovet the past 25 years) I truely believe the shysters of yesteryear are long gone.
My biggest concern over the IFA v DIY debate that I pick up on here is that it shouldn't be about cost or outperformance of funds, but more about the knowledge that I bring to the table about different products that are available & the different tax strategies out there. Anyone can check Trustnet to see how Woodfords funds are (not) doing or that Baillie Gifford have one of the best US funds going......but do you know about Structured Products.....or how an Investment Bond can pay up to 5% tax "free" to a basic rate taxpayer, at the same time as sheltering any gains from IHT if put into a DGT.
Too many people are ignorant on what is out there & are purely looking at the % gain they are making.
I do take your point, Golfie. The "modern" IFA whom I parted company with has clearly done a good job for a couple of friends of mine who don't have the appetite to look more or less daily at what the markets and global economies are doing and what the possible personal implications are. And whether I made the right choice, remains to be seen. I did discover too late for example that one fund he had put me in as the basis for the pension pot - an SEI - fund - is not available to normal retail punters. But he made a big thing about his transparency, fees only, all up front and declared -only for me to discover that he was getting a little regular fee from AJ Bell which came out of my pension pot. As it happens, clients make similar complaints about advertising agencies.
I do still wonder how an IFA would charge somebody who would simply wish to put away £250/month, because an IFA would need to spend time talking with the client in order to be able to offer good solid advice. And in your business as in mine, time is money. But at the same time, it's not fair to expect you to answer, it's a general question about how IFAs legitimately charge to help "ordinary" retail clients.
@QatarNapsy DeVere. Those bastards. Infesting Prague since Vaclav Havel took the Castle.
I don't mind answering at all. For me its all about the long game. Do the job right, keep the client happy & you will probably get repeat business. better to get small amounts often than one large(ish) amount once. In our terms of business the company I work for suggests I should charge a fee of 50% of the first years premiuns for a regular monthly ISA.....so on a a £250pm contribution I should charge £1500.....absolutely shocking. I would usually charge £500 to set something like that up & then my usual 0.5% pa ongoing fee. But again, I always discuss my fees with my clients from the outset & will come to an agreement to what they think is reasonable. Also the first meeting is free of charge & at the end of that meeting we will agree what my fees should be going forward if they want me to act as their adviser. The vast majority realise that I have to earn a living & most don't bat an eyelid.....prob because they know what I charge is fair. Most also say that they haven't a clue about money & if it wasn't for me they would be in a much worse position....tax wise mainly.
I've finally managed to sell our old house and want to use some of the money to invest in something to give me a monthly income. I've had 'interesting' experience with financial advisors before so would like to try and do this without one. My Dad used to use JP Morgan - I phoned them up but they can't give advice (fair enough). Any advice/suggestions as to what I could do? This is pretty much going to have to be my pension as I was self employed and for medical reasons (I'm bipolar) I am unlikely to work again.
Won £125 on the Premium Bonds this month and doing okay this year, currently a 3% return on what I have invested. However, Mrs Large has the same invested but a return of only 0.1%.
I've finally managed to sell our old house and want to use some of the money to invest in something to give me a monthly income. I've had 'interesting' experience with financial advisors before so would like to try and do this without one. My Dad used to use JP Morgan - I phoned them up but they can't give advice (fair enough). Any advice/suggestions as to what I could do? This is pretty much going to have to be my pension as I was self employed and for medical reasons (I'm bipolar) I am unlikely to work again.
As it sounds like a sizeable sum and you needing an income I'd talk to an IFA. Age, risk appetite, other investments/capital etc all play a part. But how big a lump sum and what income do you need/for how long?
Won £125 on the Premium Bonds this month and doing okay this year, currently a 3% return on what I have invested. However, Mrs Large has the same invested but a return of only 0.1%.
My first blank of the year wife won £50 though. We’re both at about 2%.
I've finally managed to sell our old house and want to use some of the money to invest in something to give me a monthly income. I've had 'interesting' experience with financial advisors before so would like to try and do this without one. My Dad used to use JP Morgan - I phoned them up but they can't give advice (fair enough). Any advice/suggestions as to what I could do? This is pretty much going to have to be my pension as I was self employed and for medical reasons (I'm bipolar) I am unlikely to work again.
I've finally managed to sell our old house and want to use some of the money to invest in something to give me a monthly income. I've had 'interesting' experience with financial advisors before so would like to try and do this without one. My Dad used to use JP Morgan - I phoned them up but they can't give advice (fair enough). Any advice/suggestions as to what I could do? This is pretty much going to have to be my pension as I was self employed and for medical reasons (I'm bipolar) I am unlikely to work again.
see my post directly above yours.
Thanks @golfaddick . I'm still wary of IFAs having told the last lot what I was after and they set me up with something they thought I should have instead. I'm going to have a go myself.
I've finally managed to sell our old house and want to use some of the money to invest in something to give me a monthly income. I've had 'interesting' experience with financial advisors before so would like to try and do this without one. My Dad used to use JP Morgan - I phoned them up but they can't give advice (fair enough). Any advice/suggestions as to what I could do? This is pretty much going to have to be my pension as I was self employed and for medical reasons (I'm bipolar) I am unlikely to work again.
see my post directly above yours.
Thanks @golfaddick . I'm still wary of IFAs having told the last lot what I was after and they set me up with something they thought I should have instead. I'm going to have a go myself.
more fool you then.
you say you are looking for income.....you might want to start with something that is tax free or tax efficient.
but I'm sure google or your mate down the pub will be better advising you than someone with over 25 years experience....
Nice way to try and secure a new client. Ha ha ha.
I don't need new clients thanks.....
I'm not on here touting for business - just find it incredulous that someone with, I assume, very little experience decides that he/she is going to "gamble" their life's savings & future pension provision without taking professional advice first.
I've finally managed to sell our old house and want to use some of the money to invest in something to give me a monthly income. I've had 'interesting' experience with financial advisors before so would like to try and do this without one. My Dad used to use JP Morgan - I phoned them up but they can't give advice (fair enough). Any advice/suggestions as to what I could do? This is pretty much going to have to be my pension as I was self employed and for medical reasons (I'm bipolar) I am unlikely to work again.
see my post directly above yours.
Thanks @golfaddick . I'm still wary of IFAs having told the last lot what I was after and they set me up with something they thought I should have instead. I'm going to have a go myself.
more fool you then.
you say you are looking for income.....you might want to start with something that is tax free or tax efficient.
but I'm sure google or your mate down the pub will be better advising you than someone with over 25 years experience....
Aha! Edited to include something after the more fool you bit!
You don't know anything about me but I also have 25 years experience in a profession. I worked as psychologist (before I went mad myself!). Here's a bit of free advice - you come across as rather aggressive.
I’m going through future planning and inheritance tax planning at the moment, unfortunately it’s not something you can do without professional advice. I’m looking at two or three options and IFA’s, don’t forget most IFA’s give you at least the first meeting free. I’m also using my accountants to point me in the right directions and there personal recommendations for which IFA’s to talk to, the risk I see doing it this way is is there some tie up between my accountant and the iFA they guide me towards, they assure me not, but there’s still a lingering doubt. Perhaps golfaddick was not very subtle, but don’t disregard his advice as it is good.
I've finally managed to sell our old house and want to use some of the money to invest in something to give me a monthly income. I've had 'interesting' experience with financial advisors before so would like to try and do this without one. My Dad used to use JP Morgan - I phoned them up but they can't give advice (fair enough). Any advice/suggestions as to what I could do? This is pretty much going to have to be my pension as I was self employed and for medical reasons (I'm bipolar) I am unlikely to work again.
see my post directly above yours.
Thanks @golfaddick . I'm still wary of IFAs having told the last lot what I was after and they set me up with something they thought I should have instead. I'm going to have a go myself.
more fool you then.
you say you are looking for income.....you might want to start with something that is tax free or tax efficient.
but I'm sure google or your mate down the pub will be better advising you than someone with over 25 years experience....
Aha! Edited to include something after the more fool you bit!
You don't know anything about me but I also have 25 years experience in a profession. I worked as psychologist (before I went mad myself!). Here's a bit of free advice - you come across as rather aggressive.
That's sort of the point;
@golfaddick does have a point IMHO, you've asked on a football forum for financial advice as you don't trust the professionals. Because of what you say (not likely to work again, need for retirement/income and we aren't talking £5k) it's about as important a financial decision that you have to make and is quite complex. I wouldn't discount an IFA just because you feel the last one let you down - we're Charlton fans - we're used to that You wouldn't not buy another car only because the last one broke down on you..... or never go on a date because the last girl dumped you.
There's lots of things that are possible but difficult to advise without knowing all your financial and personal details as what might be right for one person isn't for the next (do you have family for instance, your own home, what's your plans for the future with that?,other investments etc).
Depending on age you could pay some each year into a pension plan, ISA's (stocks and shares or cash, but if S&S which of the 200+ funds should you invest in?), Peer to Peer, bonds, gilts, gold - even invest in property!
If you aren't comfortable deciding yourself, then seek out a good IFA, I've met far more good than bad.
I have an IFA and without him I would still be bumbling along in a high street bank ISA. Since taking his advice over a number of years he has sorted me out two great mortgages, placed me in a more professional ISA which is returning more on a six monthly basis than my high street one did in a year and moved me to a great private pension fund.
And he has also helped and advised us with monies that elderly relatives have had and want to dispose of.
Not everyone is good fit and by the looks of it Arsenetatters & Golfie come into that bracket but give me an IFA any day over going it alone.
To be fair to @golfaddick whilst his response to @Arsenetatters was undeniably curt I don't think it was actually intended to be directed at her as such.
There were plenty of comments higher up the thread slagging off IFAs in general and their competence, integrity or lack thereof and I think @golfaddick was just defending his profession and by implication himself.
Thank you folks. I admit I do need advice - which is why I posted on here. I drop into this thread from time to time but have missed the IFA vs on your own debate.
I have found previous IFAs very pushy and have invested in stuff I'm not happy with. The last one I saw was recommended by a friend who wanted high risk investment- the total opposite of me.
With the house completion date looming I shall stick the money in building society accounts until I have some idea what to do.
Comments
Here is a link you might try.https://mcnultytrading.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/alpha-beta-and-the-sharpe-ratio/
If you are paying for active global management and you get a Beta of 1 against say the World MSCI index you are paying through the nose for tracker performance. A good active manager's characteristic is a negative Beta and a high Sharpe ratio. The Alpha number shows the return relative to the risk taken. If the Alpha is less than 1 it means risk has been taken with no reward. Higher than 1 means the reward is generated at low risk.
Luck is always a contributory factor, and will even out over time, and as long as you don't take decisions on a short measurement period luck is not going to be that material. One lucky year in three often over eggs the three year average figure but it should stick out like a sore thumb. Statistics suggest that 5% of long term outcome is down to luck, so out of an 8% p.a long term performance only 0.4% p.a is attributed to good luck and would be 7.6% if the luck was negative. It's about the same percentage that's attributable to manager skill. Asset class selection historically has determined 90% of the attribution to overall performance when comparing luck and skill and asset class selection.
However, it has moved on from there & with the onset of RDR & fees instead of commission ( and the fact that I have sat 4 different sets if exams ovet the past 25 years) I truely believe the shysters of yesteryear are long gone.
My biggest concern over the IFA v DIY debate that I pick up on here is that it shouldn't be about cost or outperformance of funds, but more about the knowledge that I bring to the table about different products that are available & the different tax strategies out there. Anyone can check Trustnet to see how Woodfords funds are (not) doing or that Baillie Gifford have one of the best US funds going......but do you know about Structured Products.....or how an Investment Bond can pay up to 5% tax "free" to a basic rate taxpayer, at the same time as sheltering any gains from IHT if put into a DGT.
Too many people are ignorant on what is out there & are purely looking at the % gain they are making.
I had to laugh about car salesmen too! A quick browse of the FCA's final notices will show that these days almost everyone (apart from Barclays Bank) getting into trouble with their regulator is indeed a car salesman falling foul of the consumer credit regs.
I do still wonder how an IFA would charge somebody who would simply wish to put away £250/month, because an IFA would need to spend time talking with the client in order to be able to offer good solid advice. And in your business as in mine, time is money. But at the same time, it's not fair to expect you to answer, it's a general question about how IFAs legitimately charge to help "ordinary" retail clients.
@QatarNapsy DeVere. Those bastards. Infesting Prague since Vaclav Havel took the Castle.
@golfaddick on here is an IFA if you are SE.
you say you are looking for income.....you might want to start with something that is tax free or tax efficient.
but I'm sure google or your mate down the pub will be better advising you than someone with over 25 years experience....
I'm not on here touting for business - just find it incredulous that someone with, I assume, very little experience decides that he/she is going to "gamble" their life's savings & future pension provision without taking professional advice first.
You don't know anything about me but I also have 25 years experience in a profession. I worked as psychologist (before I went mad myself!). Here's a bit of free advice - you come across as rather aggressive.
@golfaddick does have a point IMHO, you've asked on a football forum for financial advice as you don't trust the professionals. Because of what you say (not likely to work again, need for retirement/income and we aren't talking £5k) it's about as important a financial decision that you have to make and is quite complex. I wouldn't discount an IFA just because you feel the last one let you down - we're Charlton fans - we're used to that
There's lots of things that are possible but difficult to advise without knowing all your financial and personal details as what might be right for one person isn't for the next (do you have family for instance, your own home, what's your plans for the future with that?,other investments etc).
Depending on age you could pay some each year into a pension plan, ISA's (stocks and shares or cash, but if S&S which of the 200+ funds should you invest in?), Peer to Peer, bonds, gilts, gold - even invest in property!
If you aren't comfortable deciding yourself, then seek out a good IFA, I've met far more good than bad.
And he has also helped and advised us with monies that elderly relatives have had and want to dispose of.
Not everyone is good fit and by the looks of it Arsenetatters & Golfie come into that bracket but give me an IFA any day over going it alone.
There were plenty of comments higher up the thread slagging off IFAs in general and their competence, integrity or lack thereof and I think @golfaddick was just defending his profession and by implication himself.
I have found previous IFAs very pushy and have invested in stuff I'm not happy with. The last one I saw was recommended by a friend who wanted high risk investment- the total opposite of me.
With the house completion date looming I shall stick the money in building society accounts until I have some idea what to do.