Curbs ran our football club and when Murray sacked him he made the biggest mistake of his life and then the second appointing Dowie. Wait a minute, there was Jimenez and Slater.
We seem to have been in permanent decline ever since Murray took leave of his senses and appointed Dowie. It's been a catalogue of errors since then with very few good times and it stands to reason we have to get a decent owner eventually who will give us some stability - my biggest fear is that we'll end up leaving the Valley which will rob the club of much of its history. Murray's ego has a lot to answer for....
Totally agree , murray appointed dowie to stick two fingers up at simon jordan , he gave dowie a pot of money that curbs never had and allow dowie to sell good squad players
From someone not in the know. Dowie was appointed with conditions. Retain the existing coaching set up and not to bring in Bob Dowie, Mills to identity possible transfer targets etc. Someone on the coaching set up didn't like the way Dowie was working and had a better relationship with Murray. Dowie was undermined and got the sack. From the outside the decision appeared correct. Reed only had one game plan, build the team around Reid who was injury prone. Pardew was given the money to get us back up and gambled on a number of players. We didn't get promoted and the money ran out. None of this is anything to do with the current situation where the owners are not interested in results.
Dowie gets a lot of blame for 13 games in which his record in those games was better than Curbs in the previous seasons same fixtures...
Murray halted the momentum in 2004...The philosophy & actions that enabled Curbs to buy, build and create a PL Club changed... Murray went from that to announcing "all our players have their price" and all future "signings should have sell on value"...
It’s not rocket science, if a football club keeps selling it’s best players & replaces them with shit, you get what we have now…We’ve been on a downward spiral ever since.
Whilst Dowie's appointment was a stupid one, I don't blame that decision on what is happening now. Chris Powell and all the people behind the scenes stopped that particular slump. We were on a more positive path until RD came along. The blame for our current predicament lies firmly with him and the inept team that he has doing his bidding.
Yes, if Powell would have been backed rather than undermined and sacked - the owner would be in a much better place and would have spent a lot less money getting there! I know that with all my heart. I'd bet my life on it. It is his business, but my club and I cant forgive him for it!
Whatever we might think of Pardew as an individual, as a manager he's been reasonably successful on the pitch. His spell with us was by far his worst spell as a manager, both in results and transfers. He did ok at Reading and West Ham, then after us goes to Southampton and buys the likes of Ricky Lambert and Jose Fonte.
I'd argue that his spell with us was his standard MO, just done over a shorter period of time. He did have a rocky start in the Prem, but he also inherited a slumping and disjointed team. The next year he had a good year, and the following year we went into a slump that he couldn't reverse. He basically did the same at West Ham, getting them up, a couple solid years, then they started falling apart and were relegated. Same with Newcastle. And after a good year with Palace they are now crumbling.
Pardew was unlucky to be sacked by West Ham, in no way was he seen as a failure when we appointed him He was sacked from Soton for, ahem, off the field issues He left Newcastle of his own accord, they've gone backwards since Palace have had a bad run, but are safe in the PL and about to appear in an FA Cup final. His job is safe there too
Pardew was not unlucky at all to be sacked at WHU.
From Wiki: "Pardew was criticised after seeing West Ham through their worst run of defeats in over 70 years which included an exit from the UEFA Cup to Palermo in the very first round[24] and a League Cup defeat to Chesterfield.[25]"
...plus he took a side containing Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano into the bottom three before they sacked him.
Worse than that, I don't think that he was even putting Mascherano on the bench, which given that he went on to be a regular for both Liverpool and Barcelona, does seem a trifle odd!!
Curbs ran our football club and when Murray sacked him he made the biggest mistake of his life and then the second appointing Dowie. Wait a minute, there was Jimenez and Slater.
What????? Murray didn't sack Curbs. He offered him a new 5 year deal. Curbs refused to sign it and so they agreed he'd go at the end of season. Quite rightly too, he didn't want to stay any longer and he'd proved he could not motivate the team once they'd reached safety, year after year.
Curbs ran our football club and when Murray sacked him he made the biggest mistake of his life and then the second appointing Dowie. Wait a minute, there was Jimenez and Slater.
What????? Murray didn't sack Curbs. He offered him a new 5 year deal. Curbs refused to sign it and so they agreed he'd go at the end of season. Quite rightly too, he didn't want to stay any longer and he'd proved he could not motivate the team once they'd reached safety, year after year.
Sack is not the right word but are you sure he didn't want to stay any longer? Why do I have the impression that it was Murray that didn't want him to see out his contract and THEN they mutually aggreed to part company?
Anyway, I know what the OP is talking about although, like others have pointed out, it is the owner and his CEO that are responsible for our current situation. For me, the question has always been what if Curbs had stayed for just one more season rather than what if we'd appointed someone else that summer. We could have a fairly smooth transition and Murray could have made a more thorough look at whom to replace Curbs. Or, if Murray had given Curbs the same amount of cash to spend that season, we might have pushed on to reach Europe (not likely I know as we never managed to overcome the annual March slump under Curbs...). Plus, there might have been better options in the management market a year later. For example, Sam Allardyce left Bolton in 2007 - I may get some stick for mentioning him but there's no doubt he would have been a much much better choice than the likes of Iain Dowie the PowerPoint genius... Whether Allardyce would have liked to come or we could have afforded his salary is another question.
Murray wanted Curbs to extend his contract , Curbs did not want to extend it but was willing to see out the last year of it (which was at the time the most important one because the Premiership TV money increased dramatically) Murray didn't accept Curbs offer to see out the last year Murray didn't accept Curbs offer to help him find his replacement (Curbs choice was Mick McCarthy) These are all facts
Murray then forced Dowie in to having Murrays choice of coaching set up
Seeing that in appointing Dowie, Murray was also taking the piss out of Simon Jordan (is a wanker), maybe the decline all started with Jon Fortune's goal that sent Palace down.
If they'd stayed up, and Murray and Jordan enjoyed a pint together after the match, maybe we'd have employed someone else!
That day more than makes up for the pain we are going through at the moment.
Seeing that in appointing Dowie, Murray was also taking the piss out of Simon Jordan (is a wanker), maybe the decline all started with Jon Fortune's goal that sent Palace down.
If they'd stayed up, and Murray and Jordan enjoyed a pint together after the match, maybe we'd have employed someone else!
That day more than makes up for the pain we are going through at the moment.
Please tell me you're being sarcastic?
Otherwise I put my hands up and say I've been 'whooshed'
Seeing that in appointing Dowie, Murray was also taking the piss out of Simon Jordan (is a wanker), maybe the decline all started with Jon Fortune's goal that sent Palace down.
If they'd stayed up, and Murray and Jordan enjoyed a pint together after the match, maybe we'd have employed someone else!
That day more than makes up for the pain we are going through at the moment.
Please tell me you're being sarcastic?
Otherwise I put my hands up and say I've been 'whooshed'
The appointment of Dowie started our last decline.
Powell halted the decline and was taking us back in the right direction.
Duchatelet, Meire and Murray (again) are responsible for the current decline.
Exactly. Polarity had reversed under Powell - the club had 'one aim' and were all pulling in one direction.
The RD era of 'no aim' was an unexpected new torpedo - not related to Dowie, Pardew et al. You could argue that the Murray is the one constant in all this, and he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory. In fairness I do think that when RD approached to purchase the club, he would've seemed a solid, sensible option to most. How wrong we were.
Curbs ran our football club and when Murray sacked him he made the biggest mistake of his life and then the second appointing Dowie. Wait a minute, there was Jimenez and Slater.
What????? Murray didn't sack Curbs. He offered him a new 5 year deal. Curbs refused to sign it and so they agreed he'd go at the end of season. Quite rightly too, he didn't want to stay any longer and he'd proved he could not motivate the team once they'd reached safety, year after year.
Or perhaps he proved that you can only do so much if you keep losing your best players, and operate on a average transfer budget of £6m a season...
He was the best available at the time, and we probably sacked him too soon. The big error was appointing Les Reed in the interim before we got Pards, as our form was shocking and we lost ground in the table during this spell.
We did the same this season - appointed Fraye, when we should have got Warnock, lost ground and could not recover.
Not quite Phil!
Whilst the Reed run left us in the relegation places, the West Ham win with Arsedew in charge actually lifted us out of the relegation places for a period.
There followed a series of less than inspired performances that ended up taking us down. We had the opportunity to stay up, but didn't take it.
Same when Parkinson was put in charge after the sacking of the arrogant one, we were only 3 points from safety, but ended up sinking lower. Same when Riga came back after the Karel Fraeye amateur hour was finally brought to an end.
The big error was not letting Curbishley see out his contract, as he wanted to. Though I understand Murray's reasoning for not keeping him, his Ian DoubtIt hiring was ultimately laced with one upmanship on Jordan.
Whist I agree Warnock would've been the man to keep us up, that appointment was about as likely as Millwall winning the world cup.
True, but the points we lost under Reed cost us. The team did still have fight in it under Dowie - that was totally gone from Reed's first game. The problem is, we have more reason to blame Reed than ex Palarse Dowie, but we are more inclined to be generous to Reed. I don't think he was a great manager, but if we had kept him a bit longer and replaced Pardew with him, I believe the extra points we would have had would have kept us up. We can go over the circumstance at the time, but it is interesting that the club (under Murray) was trying to move to a new model, despite the one under Curbs not being too shoddy. I think Dowie being a traditional manager and finding it hard to sign up to this, and being dobbed in by Reed had a lot to do with his departure. When these owners start to think they know best it is dangerous. Brain Clough got that right!
The other mystery is why Kevin Cash pulled the plug.
While TJ and MS had overspent, the success on the field showed the club was moving forward nicely. Another year of his money could have seen us as genuine promotion candidates to the PL
Those players actually played for Dowie, they had no respect for Reed whatsoever. (Alluded to by at least Bent and Holland) His period is so similar to Fraye's it's ridiculous. Awful decision, same outcome ten years on. Murray is still in the directors box.
That relegation was even more needless than this one, bearing in mind the funds we started with and what was at stake from relegation from the Premier League.
Ironically they then got rid of Andrew Mills and reverted to a similar management set up to when Curbishley was here!
The other mystery is why Kevin Cash pulled the plug.
While TJ and MS had overspent, the success on the field showed the club was moving forward nicely. Another year of his money could have seen us as genuine promotion candidates to the PL
I think it was because TJ spotted an opportunity and Cash was annoyed he was being asked for more ,,,,er,,,,,cash. personally, I think it cost him a lot of ...er....cash!
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I am sure someone who likes searching people out on LinkedIn can confirm this
Murray halted the momentum in 2004...The philosophy & actions that enabled Curbs to buy, build and create a PL Club changed... Murray went from that to announcing "all our players have their price" and all future "signings should have sell on value"...
It’s not rocket science, if a football club keeps selling it’s best players & replaces them with shit, you get what we have now…We’ve been on a downward spiral ever since.
No surprise Murray backs this regime.
Anyway, I know what the OP is talking about although, like others have pointed out, it is the owner and his CEO that are responsible for our current situation. For me, the question has always been what if Curbs had stayed for just one more season rather than what if we'd appointed someone else that summer. We could have a fairly smooth transition and Murray could have made a more thorough look at whom to replace Curbs. Or, if Murray had given Curbs the same amount of cash to spend that season, we might have pushed on to reach Europe (not likely I know as we never managed to overcome the annual March slump under Curbs...). Plus, there might have been better options in the management market a year later. For example, Sam Allardyce left Bolton in 2007 - I may get some stick for mentioning him but there's no doubt he would have been a much much better choice than the likes of Iain Dowie the PowerPoint genius... Whether Allardyce would have liked to come or we could have afforded his salary is another question.
Murray didn't accept Curbs offer to see out the last year
Murray didn't accept Curbs offer to help him find his replacement (Curbs choice was Mick McCarthy)
These are all facts
Murray then forced Dowie in to having Murrays choice of coaching set up
Otherwise I put my hands up and say I've been 'whooshed'
'Unique' as they say, but each to their own.
Powell halted the decline and was taking us back in the right direction.
Duchatelet, Meire and Murray (again) are responsible for the current decline.
The RD era of 'no aim' was an unexpected new torpedo - not related to Dowie, Pardew et al. You could argue that the Murray is the one constant in all this, and he hasn't exactly covered himself in glory. In fairness I do think that when RD approached to purchase the club, he would've seemed a solid, sensible option to most. How wrong we were.
Whilst the Reed run left us in the relegation places, the West Ham win with Arsedew in charge actually lifted us out of the relegation places for a period.
There followed a series of less than inspired performances that ended up taking us down. We had the opportunity to stay up, but didn't take it.
Same when Parkinson was put in charge after the sacking of the arrogant one, we were only 3 points from safety, but ended up sinking lower. Same when Riga came back after the Karel Fraeye amateur hour was finally brought to an end.
The big error was not letting Curbishley see out his contract, as he wanted to. Though I understand Murray's reasoning for not keeping him, his Ian DoubtIt hiring was ultimately laced with one upmanship on Jordan.
Whist I agree Warnock would've been the man to keep us up, that appointment was about as likely as Millwall winning the world cup.
While TJ and MS had overspent, the success on the field showed the club was moving forward nicely. Another year of his money could have seen us as genuine promotion candidates to the PL
That relegation was even more needless than this one, bearing in mind the funds we started with and what was at stake from relegation from the Premier League.
Ironically they then got rid of Andrew Mills and reverted to a similar management set up to when Curbishley was here!