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Appointment of Dowie started this decline...

hoof_it_up_to_bentyhoof_it_up_to_benty
in General Charlton
We seem to have been in permanent decline ever since Murray took leave of his senses and appointed Dowie. It's been a catalogue of errors since then with very few good times and it stands to reason we have to get a decent owner eventually who will give us some stability - my biggest fear is that we'll end up leaving the Valley which will rob the club of much of its history.
Murray's ego has a lot to answer for....
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Comments

  • hoof_it_up_to_bentyhoof_it_up_to_benty
    thai malaysia addick said:

    I think the appointment of Dowie has nothing to do with the havoc that RD & KM have created and is not comparable. Many clubs have made bad appointments as manager or signed players that are overvalued. Using that logic, you could argue that Dowie was the reason that Powell led us to 100 points in League 1.

    We have been in a mess since Dowie was appointed - the list of f***ups is endless. RD is just a continuation and while he may be the worst we should never have got here from the position we were in.
    Signed some terrible players on inflated contracts and appointing Dowie, Reed etc show an incredible naivety.
    Curbishley succeeded despite Murray...
  • RivieraRiviera
    Thread title should read "Sacking of Dowie started this decline..."
  • Alex WrightAlex Wright
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    We seem to have been in permanent decline ever since Murray took leave of his senses and appointed Dowie. It's been a catalogue of errors since then with very few good times and it stands to reason we have to get a decent owner eventually who will give us some stability - my biggest fear is that we'll end up leaving the Valley which will rob the club of much of its history.
    Murray's ego has a lot to answer for....

    I feel the same. It was a continuation of the ETCYT spat. Employing someone who had failed to get Palace promoted (following Fortunes greatest goal) and giving him £12m to spend (which we didn't have) seemed to make little sense.
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    Seeing that in appointing Dowie, Murray was also taking the piss out of Simon Jordan (is a wanker), maybe the decline all started with Jon Fortune's goal that sent Palace down.

    If they'd stayed up, and Murray and Jordan enjoyed a pint together after the match, maybe we'd have employed someone else!
  • Kap10Kap10
    Alex Wright said:

    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    We seem to have been in permanent decline ever since Murray took leave of his senses and appointed Dowie. It's been a catalogue of errors since then with very few good times and it stands to reason we have to get a decent owner eventually who will give us some stability - my biggest fear is that we'll end up leaving the Valley which will rob the club of much of its history.
    Murray's ego has a lot to answer for....

    I feel the same. It was a continuation of the ETCYT spat. Employing someone who had failed to get Palace promotedto retain their premiership status (following Fortunes greatest goal) and giving him £12m to spend (which we didn't have) seemed to make little sense.
    Billy davies was interviewed and indicated that he had got the job and was waiting on a call from Murray to confirm, Murray heard about Dowie wanting to move further up north and never made the call to Billy Davies, is one of the stories.
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  • thai malaysia addickthai malaysia addick
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    thai malaysia addick said:

    I think the appointment of Dowie has nothing to do with the havoc that RD & KM have created and is not comparable. Many clubs have made bad appointments as manager or signed players that are overvalued. Using that logic, you could argue that Dowie was the reason that Powell led us to 100 points in League 1.

    We have been in a mess since Dowie was appointed - the list of f***ups is endless. RD is just a continuation and while he may be the worst we should never have got here from the position we were in.
    Signed some terrible players on inflated contracts and appointing Dowie, Reed etc show an incredible naivety.
    Curbishley succeeded despite Murray...
    I take your point that the graph would show a steady decline, but we were never going to maintain the 4th place in the Premiership we had under Curbs before Parker left. Most clubs have ups and downs - certainly, clubs of our size. My point is that the era of RD & KM is beyond comparison with anything in the past. If we were bobbing around the lower half of the Championship with a half decent squad, CARD (or anything like it) would never have existed.

    I guess I see Charlton realistically as mid, maybe lower, Championship club. I fear that we have not reached the bottom of where we are going whilst RD & KM are in charge. Ask Blackpool fans if they really don't believe that they couldn't end up in the Conference.
  • andynelsonandynelson
    Kap10 said:

    Alex Wright said:

    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    We seem to have been in permanent decline ever since Murray took leave of his senses and appointed Dowie. It's been a catalogue of errors since then with very few good times and it stands to reason we have to get a decent owner eventually who will give us some stability - my biggest fear is that we'll end up leaving the Valley which will rob the club of much of its history.
    Murray's ego has a lot to answer for....

    I feel the same. It was a continuation of the ETCYT spat. Employing someone who had failed to get Palace promotedto retain their premiership status (following Fortunes greatest goal) and giving him £12m to spend (which we didn't have) seemed to make little sense.
    Billy davies was interviewed and indicated that he had got the job and was waiting on a call from Murray to confirm, Murray heard about Dowie wanting to move further up north and never made the call to Billy Davies, is one of the stories.
    I think Billy Davies decided not to take the job, then Murray "swooped" for Dowie. The fact that Davies was given the job but turned it down proved that Murray did not approach Dowie while he was still at Palace, so Jordan lost his case against Murray. I think.
  • DugdaleclassDugdaleclass
    Another rather depressing way of looking at this is that the Curbishley years were a blip and, despite the heroics of Lennie and the short lived success of Sir Chris, the club has been in decline since the 1950s. This latest bunch of buffoons has just accelerated the process.
  • AlgarveaddickAlgarveaddick
    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    thai malaysia addick said:

    I think the appointment of Dowie has nothing to do with the havoc that RD & KM have created and is not comparable. Many clubs have made bad appointments as manager or signed players that are overvalued. Using that logic, you could argue that Dowie was the reason that Powell led us to 100 points in League 1.

    We have been in a mess since Dowie was appointed - the list of f***ups is endless. RD is just a continuation and while he may be the worst we should never have got here from the position we were in.
    Signed some terrible players on inflated contracts and appointing Dowie, Reed etc show an incredible naivety.
    Curbishley succeeded despite Murray...
    90% of what you say is true. The highlighted bit is rewriting history in my opinion, HIUTB. Murray has undone all his good work, but when he and Martin Simons put their money into the club in April 1991it was desperately needed, and I am sure they were both involved in the appointment of Curbs three months later, and as a team they worked well together until Curbs departure.

  • SDAddickSDAddick
    thai malaysia addick said:


    I guess I see Charlton realistically as mid, maybe lower, Championship club. I fear that we have not reached the bottom of where we are going whilst RD & KM are in charge. Ask Blackpool fans if they really don't believe that they couldn't end up in the Conference.

    I agree with this, maybe mid-tier Championship club. But I know a lot of people on here feel that in an ideal world we'd be pushing for/in the Prem--which is getting harder and harder to do.

    As for appointing/sacking Dowie, I'm not someone who believes that one decision makes or breaks things 99% of the time. Remember we were 2nd in the league at Christmas under Pards the following year, and had we continued on like that, and not, say, bought Andy Gray or had Andy Reid get injured we might have gotten right back to the Prem. I'm in no way convinced that Billy Davies would have been any better. He seems to leave a trail of destruction wherever he goes, and he is not a pleasant man (no coincidence that both men are currently not managing).

    For me the biggest failing is the inability to balance the books in the Prem, and then subsequently in the Championship. Admittedly that deficit spending was the fashion at the time (the likes of Bolton, Birmingham, Villa, and Portsmouth were all doing it too--amongst others). If it weren't for that, we wouldn't have been so desperate for owners who can constantly inject cash to keep us afloat. Without that problem, I don't think we'd have ended up in the hands of someone like RD.
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    There a lot of what ifs

    Whatever we might think of Pardew as an individual, as a manager he's been reasonably successful on the pitch. His spell with us was by far his worst spell as a manager, both in results and transfers. He did ok at Reading and West Ham, then after us goes to Southampton and buys the likes of Ricky Lambert and Jose Fonte.

  • SDAddickSDAddick
    killerandflash said:

    There a lot of what ifs

    Whatever we might think of Pardew as an individual, as a manager he's been reasonably successful on the pitch. His spell with us was by far his worst spell as a manager, both in results and transfers. He did ok at Reading and West Ham, then after us goes to Southampton and buys the likes of Ricky Lambert and Jose Fonte.

    I'd argue that his spell with us was his standard MO, just done over a shorter period of time. He did have a rocky start in the Prem, but he also inherited a slumping and disjointed team. The next year he had a good year, and the following year we went into a slump that he couldn't reverse. He basically did the same at West Ham, getting them up, a couple solid years, then they started falling apart and were relegated. Same with Newcastle. And after a good year with Palace they are now crumbling.
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  • Saga LoutSaga Lout
    SDAddick said:

    killerandflash said:

    There a lot of what ifs

    Whatever we might think of Pardew as an individual, as a manager he's been reasonably successful on the pitch. His spell with us was by far his worst spell as a manager, both in results and transfers. He did ok at Reading and West Ham, then after us goes to Southampton and buys the likes of Ricky Lambert and Jose Fonte.

    I'd argue that his spell with us was his standard MO, just done over a shorter period of time. He did have a rocky start in the Prem, but he also inherited a slumping and disjointed team. The next year he had a good year, and the following year we went into a slump that he couldn't reverse. He basically did the same at West Ham, getting them up, a couple solid years, then they started falling apart and were relegated. Same with Newcastle. And after a good year with Palace they are now crumbling.
    Crumbling into an FA Cup final. :-)
  • killerandflashkillerandflash
    SDAddick said:

    killerandflash said:

    There a lot of what ifs

    Whatever we might think of Pardew as an individual, as a manager he's been reasonably successful on the pitch. His spell with us was by far his worst spell as a manager, both in results and transfers. He did ok at Reading and West Ham, then after us goes to Southampton and buys the likes of Ricky Lambert and Jose Fonte.

    I'd argue that his spell with us was his standard MO, just done over a shorter period of time. He did have a rocky start in the Prem, but he also inherited a slumping and disjointed team. The next year he had a good year, and the following year we went into a slump that he couldn't reverse. He basically did the same at West Ham, getting them up, a couple solid years, then they started falling apart and were relegated. Same with Newcastle. And after a good year with Palace they are now crumbling.
    Pardew was unlucky to be sacked by West Ham, in no way was he seen as a failure when we appointed him
    He was sacked from Soton for, ahem, off the field issues
    He left Newcastle of his own accord, they've gone backwards since
    Palace have had a bad run, but are safe in the PL and about to appear in an FA Cup final. His job is safe there too
  • SDAddickSDAddick
    Saga Lout said:

    SDAddick said:

    killerandflash said:

    There a lot of what ifs

    Whatever we might think of Pardew as an individual, as a manager he's been reasonably successful on the pitch. His spell with us was by far his worst spell as a manager, both in results and transfers. He did ok at Reading and West Ham, then after us goes to Southampton and buys the likes of Ricky Lambert and Jose Fonte.

    I'd argue that his spell with us was his standard MO, just done over a shorter period of time. He did have a rocky start in the Prem, but he also inherited a slumping and disjointed team. The next year he had a good year, and the following year we went into a slump that he couldn't reverse. He basically did the same at West Ham, getting them up, a couple solid years, then they started falling apart and were relegated. Same with Newcastle. And after a good year with Palace they are now crumbling.
    Crumbling into an FA Cup final. :-)
    True, I meant the decline came the year after that (or maybe two years, my memory is fuzzy). My point, and it's by no means unique, is that when things start going wrong for him, when his initial charm or whatever it is wears off, he cannot change things.
  • AddickFC81AddickFC81
    Did Murray really and was he really prepared to risk everything that he had achieved under Curbs and our Premier League place by appointing Dowie just to get back at Simon Jordan?

    I'd like to think he didn't.
  • twiggyaddicktwiggyaddick
    AddickFC81 said:

    Did Murray really and was he really prepared to risk everything that he had achieved under Curbs and our Premier League place by appointing Dowie just to get back at Simon Jordan?

    I'd like to think he didn't.

    But supporting Katrien and looking like a weirdly dressed old fool sat next to her, it comes to question...
  • twiggyaddicktwiggyaddick
    For the record...its all a chain reaction really, had we not gone down in 06/07, we would have been well set with the tv money increase...that lingered and IMO made murray panic, especially when he could not get his first choice...
  • JohnnyH2JohnnyH2
    Algarveaddick said:

    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    thai malaysia addick said:

    I think the appointment of Dowie has nothing to do with the havoc that RD & KM have created and is not comparable. Many clubs have made bad appointments as manager or signed players that are overvalued. Using that logic, you could argue that Dowie was the reason that Powell led us to 100 points in League 1.

    We have been in a mess since Dowie was appointed - the list of f***ups is endless. RD is just a continuation and while he may be the worst we should never have got here from the position we were in.
    Signed some terrible players on inflated contracts and appointing Dowie, Reed etc show an incredible naivety.
    Curbishley succeeded despite Murray...
    90% of what you say is true. The highlighted bit is rewriting history in my opinion, HIUTB. Murray has undone all his good work, but when he and Martin Simons put their money into the club in April 1991it was desperately needed, and I am sure they were both involved in the appointment of Curbs three months later, and as a team they worked well together until Curbs departure.

    On the clubs Century DVDS Murray admits he had no say in the appointment of Curbs/Gritt.

    He did of course sack Gritt later to get Curbs in sole control which was easily his best descion
  • AlgarveaddickAlgarveaddick
    JohnnyH2 said:

    Algarveaddick said:

    hoof_it_up_to_benty said:

    thai malaysia addick said:

    I think the appointment of Dowie has nothing to do with the havoc that RD & KM have created and is not comparable. Many clubs have made bad appointments as manager or signed players that are overvalued. Using that logic, you could argue that Dowie was the reason that Powell led us to 100 points in League 1.

    We have been in a mess since Dowie was appointed - the list of f***ups is endless. RD is just a continuation and while he may be the worst we should never have got here from the position we were in.
    Signed some terrible players on inflated contracts and appointing Dowie, Reed etc show an incredible naivety.
    Curbishley succeeded despite Murray...
    90% of what you say is true. The highlighted bit is rewriting history in my opinion, HIUTB. Murray has undone all his good work, but when he and Martin Simons put their money into the club in April 1991it was desperately needed, and I am sure they were both involved in the appointment of Curbs three months later, and as a team they worked well together until Curbs departure.

    On the clubs Century DVDS Murray admits he had no say in the appointment of Curbs/Gritt.

    He did of course sack Gritt later to get Curbs in sole control which was easily his best descion
    I haven't seen it for so long I didn't remember that at all. Thanks for putting me straight, JH2.
  • Bournemouth AddickBournemouth Addick
    killerandflash said:

    SDAddick said:

    killerandflash said:

    There a lot of what ifs

    Whatever we might think of Pardew as an individual, as a manager he's been reasonably successful on the pitch. His spell with us was by far his worst spell as a manager, both in results and transfers. He did ok at Reading and West Ham, then after us goes to Southampton and buys the likes of Ricky Lambert and Jose Fonte.

    I'd argue that his spell with us was his standard MO, just done over a shorter period of time. He did have a rocky start in the Prem, but he also inherited a slumping and disjointed team. The next year he had a good year, and the following year we went into a slump that he couldn't reverse. He basically did the same at West Ham, getting them up, a couple solid years, then they started falling apart and were relegated. Same with Newcastle. And after a good year with Palace they are now crumbling.
    Pardew was unlucky to be sacked by West Ham, in no way was he seen as a failure when we appointed him
    He was sacked from Soton for, ahem, off the field issues
    He left Newcastle of his own accord, they've gone backwards since
    Palace have had a bad run, but are safe in the PL and about to appear in an FA Cup final. His job is safe there too
    Pardew was not unlucky at all to be sacked at WHU.

    From Wiki: "Pardew was criticised after seeing West Ham through their worst run of defeats in over 70 years which included an exit from the UEFA Cup to Palermo in the very first round[24] and a League Cup defeat to Chesterfield.[25]"

    ...plus he took a side containing Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano into the bottom three before they sacked him.
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