The difference in the Slater letter is not just the honesty of the content. It is written in an adult to adult tone of voice, not in a condescending and patronising way to a stupid child who just refuses to accept what he/she is repeatedly being told.
It was disgusting how some treated Slater on this board. Some were calling for a season ticket boycott against them as well. Maybe the money would not have run out so quickly had Slater and Jimi not been treated so shabbily by fans with more than football on their minds.
Oh dear...
If you are trying to be funny, a smiley would help.
As far as I am aware, Slater and Jimenez never had enough money to run the club without third party backers, unlike a certain Belgian visionary.
However, equally unlike a certain Belgian visionary, they understood football and football fans. They were also capable of constructing public statements that would not shame a 5 year old (again in stark contrast to a certain Belgian multimillionaire). Take a look at the Jimenez article from the Huffington Post http://huffingtonpost.co.uk/tony-jimenez/charlton-athletic-sold-tony-jimenez_b_4536064.html and compare that to any of the Duchatelet regimes's club statements.
But, anyone who is a fan of this club (as you have claimed to be) will be fully aware that being a Charlton fan is so much more than just sitting and watching the football. We have a greater sense of belonging, precisely because of our history, than that - even those, like me who have never lived anywhere near The Valley and have no family connections.
To be fair, Jimenez never said a single thing until he sold the club and the communication from that regime post Varney/Kavanagh was pretty much non-existent. TJ/MS had zero interest in the views of Charlton fans. But I can't say I recall any call for a season-ticket boycott against that regime. Indeed, I'd be pretty confident that never happened.
As it happens, the 2011 Slater letter was my idea and I wrote it!
I don't expect you to write one for Meire as you're scared of her aren't you?
Exactly my thoughts. I hate to say it - the endless posted open letters are probably what @PL54 refers to when he describes the 'look at me' culture on here. Maybe it's cathartic, but there are so many now that it has become a little bit of a pissing contest over who has been hurt the most by this regime.
Strangely intolerant and divisive post. If you're not interested in fellow fans' communication with the club and any response, you might want to consider avoiding a thread titled 'Letter to Charlton and response'.
So people are now meant to avoid threads where they disagree with either an outcome or reaction? Or, to be more accurate, where someone may feel empathy with people at lower levels within the club who have to carry out a lose-lose situation?
Furthermore, you missed out the part of his post where he said he agreed with writing letters:
That is not to say that sending the emails is pointless in itself, I think that there is something to be said for the impact caused by an overwhelming general weight negative correspondence.
We are all upset, most, if not all of us want change. But we cannot criticize the regime for not listening to outside opinions when we ostracize our own who have even a slightly different perspective on dissent.
I think going into a thread titled 'Charlton letter and response' and posting:
'... the endless posted open letters are probably what @PL54 refers to when he describes the 'look at me' culture on here. Maybe it's cathartic, but there are so many now that it has become a little bit of a pissing contest over who has been hurt the most by this regime.'
is pretty divisive and arguably provocative and disrespectful. You have no issue with this, fair enough. I do. We're all different.
Better communications with the fans like Richard Murray Q & A and Roland's videos? Murray told us we were panicking about relegation and it was all bad luck due to injuries but with January investment and recoveries we would stay up. Roland, on the other hand, issued his rant against the best advice of his new Head of Communications who promptly resigned (constructive dismissal case surely). Yeah, dream on The Supporters Relations Team.
We need to stop giving Murray/Duchatalet credit for taking part in Q&As. They were not. They were press releases disguised as Q&As. No senior official has actually faced proper questions since the shit hit the fan. Given all that is going on, both on and off the field, that is extraordinary, as is the fact that the club's CEO has been in communication lockdown for months.
Absolutely right. I still don't think they've coughed to who the 'fans/partners' were who were supposed to have met with Roly. My money says that he didn't meet anyone other than Mare and Muzza.
How do you know he didn't say "Huh?" to a couple of students in passing?
It is a reflection of modern culture and the use of multi media that peoples communications are so readily dismissed.
We have all lived with the 1001 emails where everybody is copied on everything by anybody and everybody looking to cover their arse or sell you something but there is a simple principle in place when dealing with customer, client communications - you respond, politely to the specific points raised.
It is the difference between managing a functional necessity of "I have respond to this" and actually communicating to a paying customer.
Of course with electronic media your clientele can bombard you with all sorts of nonsense in an instant but the same technology allows a business to respond.
Any communication for any business will largely fall into certain categories. The club will have a position on each of those categories. Simple scanning technology will identify the key words within any communication and can be used to produce a tailored response covering each of the categories raised by the client.
Equally the scanning functionality can identify key elements of any communication which falls outside of any normal category parameters.
Then the communications staff rather than have to draft a specific response to each letter or simply issue a blanket meaningless non committal "jobs worth" generic response can review each response confirm it answers each of the points raised adjust it accordingly or refer it for further consideration.
Every "letter" of complaint is a sales opportunity and an opportunity to inform providing you have something to sell and something to say.
This is where the true challenge lies. The whole task instead of being embraced as a genuine opportunity to interact and give the executive the chance to really focus on what it needs to and wants to say to its clientele has by this regime been positioned as a chore. It has no wish to genuinely communicate, has little idea what to actually say and indeed has little of any specific value to say.
Despite the professionalism being ratcheted up a few notches in business terms it is another huge own goal. Instead of sitting down and putting down some genuine thoughts, some real details of the specific actions and policies the club intends to pursue to put things right it seeks to hide once again by speaking to mere generalities to get the immediate problem of the desk but which does nothing to address the heart of the problems.
Importantly it does absolutely nothing to benefit the bottom line. It evidences the tick list culture and mentality of the regime and once again displays its lack of working knowledge of the market in which they operate.
I'll defend the club slightly here. Presumably OP wanted a reply from the club about the situation, which in fairness he got and it does go into some detail about what they are trying to do.
I'm more than happy to bash the club about many things that have happened recently but fair play on this one. If the email had been ignored they'd get abuse. The email was responded to (admittedly it wasn't in the most eloquent way) and they still get abuse.
The difference in the Slater letter is not just the honesty of the content. It is written in an adult to adult tone of voice, not in a condescending and patronising way to a stupid child who just refuses to accept what he/she is repeatedly being told.
It was disgusting how some treated Slater on this board. Some were calling for a season ticket boycott against them as well. Maybe the money would not have run out so quickly had Slater and Jimi not been treated so shabbily by fans with more than football on their minds.
You yourself weren't on this board as Belgiumbun at that time. Can you give any examples of the disgusting treatment?
The difference in the Slater letter is not just the honesty of the content. It is written in an adult to adult tone of voice, not in a condescending and patronising way to a stupid child who just refuses to accept what he/she is repeatedly being told.
It was disgusting how some treated Slater on this board. Some were calling for a season ticket boycott against them as well. Maybe the money would not have run out so quickly had Slater and Jimi not been treated so shabbily by fans with more than football on their minds.
Oh dear...
If you are trying to be funny, a smiley would help.
As far as I am aware, Slater and Jimenez never had enough money to run the club without third party backers, unlike a certain Belgian visionary.
However, equally unlike a certain Belgian visionary, they understood football and football fans. They were also capable of constructing public statements that would not shame a 5 year old (again in stark contrast to a certain Belgian multimillionaire). Take a look at the Jimenez article from the Huffington Post http://huffingtonpost.co.uk/tony-jimenez/charlton-athletic-sold-tony-jimenez_b_4536064.html and compare that to any of the Duchatelet regimes's club statements.
But, anyone who is a fan of this club (as you have claimed to be) will be fully aware that being a Charlton fan is so much more than just sitting and watching the football. We have a greater sense of belonging, precisely because of our history, than that - even those, like me who have never lived anywhere near The Valley and have no family connections.
To be fair, Jimenez never said a single thing until he sold the club and the communication from that regime post Varney/Kavanagh was pretty much non-existent. TJ/MS had zero interest in the views of Charlton fans. But I can't say I recall any call for a season-ticket boycott against that regime. Indeed, I'd be pretty confident that never happened.
As it happens, the 2011 Slater letter was my idea and I wrote it!
That doesn't surprise me although I didn't know until now.
What it does do, however, is pose the question (not to you specifically Airman) why are fans so put out by the current emails coming from a team opposed to an individual.
Also, in the club's defence, does anyone genuinely believe or expect (demand) that their email reply be hand written and specific to them personally? This would be a little unrealistic in most situations but when CARD and others are encouraging all fans to email in it must be virtually impossible to hand write hundreds (if not thousands) or replies.
It starts with the personal touch by calling me Ray, then falls on its ar5e by signing off with that "Best regards The Supporter Relations Team" whats wrong with Love Phil x
*Hi Ray
There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.
Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
The difference in the Slater letter is not just the honesty of the content. It is written in an adult to adult tone of voice, not in a condescending and patronising way to a stupid child who just refuses to accept what he/she is repeatedly being told.
It was disgusting how some treated Slater on this board. Some were calling for a season ticket boycott against them as well. Maybe the money would not have run out so quickly had Slater and Jimi not been treated so shabbily by fans with more than football on their minds.
Oh dear...
If you are trying to be funny, a smiley would help.
As far as I am aware, Slater and Jimenez never had enough money to run the club without third party backers, unlike a certain Belgian visionary.
However, equally unlike a certain Belgian visionary, they understood football and football fans. They were also capable of constructing public statements that would not shame a 5 year old (again in stark contrast to a certain Belgian multimillionaire). Take a look at the Jimenez article from the Huffington Post http://huffingtonpost.co.uk/tony-jimenez/charlton-athletic-sold-tony-jimenez_b_4536064.html and compare that to any of the Duchatelet regimes's club statements.
But, anyone who is a fan of this club (as you have claimed to be) will be fully aware that being a Charlton fan is so much more than just sitting and watching the football. We have a greater sense of belonging, precisely because of our history, than that - even those, like me who have never lived anywhere near The Valley and have no family connections.
To be fair, Jimenez never said a single thing until he sold the club and the communication from that regime post Varney/Kavanagh was pretty much non-existent. TJ/MS had zero interest in the views of Charlton fans. But I can't say I recall any call for a season-ticket boycott against that regime. Indeed, I'd be pretty confident that never happened.
As it happens, the 2011 Slater letter was my idea and I wrote it!
We were hardly going to complain when we were winning league One and finished 3 points from the Championship play off positions. Powell always made up for a lack of communication from the board also. When the money stopped it was dire, but we still had no reason to complain as they were trying to sell and we wanted them to sell, so in that respect we were both on the same page.
The difference in the Slater letter is not just the honesty of the content. It is written in an adult to adult tone of voice, not in a condescending and patronising way to a stupid child who just refuses to accept what he/she is repeatedly being told.
It was disgusting how some treated Slater on this board. Some were calling for a season ticket boycott against them as well. Maybe the money would not have run out so quickly had Slater and Jimi not been treated so shabbily by fans with more than football on their minds.
Oh dear...
If you are trying to be funny, a smiley would help.
As far as I am aware, Slater and Jimenez never had enough money to run the club without third party backers, unlike a certain Belgian visionary.
However, equally unlike a certain Belgian visionary, they understood football and football fans. They were also capable of constructing public statements that would not shame a 5 year old (again in stark contrast to a certain Belgian multimillionaire). Take a look at the Jimenez article from the Huffington Post http://huffingtonpost.co.uk/tony-jimenez/charlton-athletic-sold-tony-jimenez_b_4536064.html and compare that to any of the Duchatelet regimes's club statements.
But, anyone who is a fan of this club (as you have claimed to be) will be fully aware that being a Charlton fan is so much more than just sitting and watching the football. We have a greater sense of belonging, precisely because of our history, than that - even those, like me who have never lived anywhere near The Valley and have no family connections.
To be fair, Jimenez never said a single thing until he sold the club and the communication from that regime post Varney/Kavanagh was pretty much non-existent. TJ/MS had zero interest in the views of Charlton fans. But I can't say I recall any call for a season-ticket boycott against that regime. Indeed, I'd be pretty confident that never happened.
As it happens, the 2011 Slater letter was my idea and I wrote it!
That doesn't surprise me although I didn't know until now.
What it does do, however, is pose the question (not to you specifically Airman) why are fans so put out by the current emails coming from a team opposed to an individual.
Also, in the club's defence, does anyone genuinely believe or expect (demand) that their email reply be hand written and specific to them personally? This would be a little unrealistic in most situations but when CARD and others are encouraging all fans to email in it must be virtually impossible to hand write hundreds (if not thousands) or replies.
It starts with the personal touch by calling me Ray, then falls on its ar5e by signing off with that "Best regards The Supporter Relations Team" whats wrong with Love Phil x
*Hi Ray
There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.
Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
Best regards The Supporter Relations Team*
Congratulating themselves for correcting their own cock-ups. and well done us for trying to get a chief scout.
that letter from Slater at least shows that they knew how to run a Club, stated it wasn't a viable concern in League One and said the team would be strengthened only with Chris' s say so. Things went tits up once funding was withdrawn leading to financial problems but they didn't run us into the ground on purpose which it seems RD is trying to do.
I have no issue with the club using a generic response for the numerous emails they must be receiving, it's what's is the generic response that is the issue
Thanks - I put my hands up! Still not sure about the colon, although I did spend some time debating whether sign-off should be hyphenated. Auto word check changed my quiet to quite ( I did miss that one). With regards to commas and full stops, a case of 'more haste less speed' in rush to to post comment!
So glad the response mentioned the 'scoreboard'. Eight months to take action and even then it wasn't great - thought they would have kept quite about that one. Again a poorly constructed and grammatically incorrect document. I realise I am a stickler for grammar and punctuation and appreciate not everyone finds it easy or important. However this is supposedly an official document and should be perfect. One bright point the sign- off "The Supporter Relations Team" does indicate to me they acknowledge Charlton does have only one supporter left so perhaps CARD are getting through to them
I would have thought a stickler for grammar and punctuation could have spelt quiet correctly. Comma after 'again'. Comma after 'however'. Comma after 'one bright point.' Colon after 'the sign-off'. Full - stop at the end of last sentence.
Exactly my thoughts. I hate to say it - the endless posted open letters are probably what @PL54 refers to when he describes the 'look at me' culture on here. Maybe it's cathartic, but there are so many now that it has become a little bit of a pissing contest over who has been hurt the most by this regime.
Strangely intolerant and divisive post. If you're not interested in fellow fans' communication with the club and any response, you might want to consider avoiding a thread titled 'Letter to Charlton and response'.
So people are now meant to avoid threads where they disagree with either an outcome or reaction? Or, to be more accurate, where someone may feel empathy with people at lower levels within the club who have to carry out a lose-lose situation?
Furthermore, you missed out the part of his post where he said he agreed with writing letters:
That is not to say that sending the emails is pointless in itself, I think that there is something to be said for the impact caused by an overwhelming general weight negative correspondence.
We are all upset, most, if not all of us want change. But we cannot criticize the regime for not listening to outside opinions when we ostracize our own who have even a slightly different perspective on dissent.
I think going into a thread titled 'Charlton letter and response' and posting:
'... the endless posted open letters are probably what @PL54 refers to when he describes the 'look at me' culture on here. Maybe it's cathartic, but there are so many now that it has become a little bit of a pissing contest over who has been hurt the most by this regime.'
is pretty divisive and arguably provocative and disrespectful. You have no issue with this, fair enough. I do. We're all different.
Loads of people have posted open letters to the club on here - an open forum - so I'll respond if I wish. After about the 15th virtually identical letter, my personal view is that they don't add that much value as we clearly aren't going to receive a personal, noteworthy response. I also feel it has descended a little into who can write the most wallowing memoire and post it on here, pretty much just for our benefit.
I probably shouldn't have bothered saying anything, in fact I nearly didn't. But what the hell, that's my opinion and this is a forum after all. SOZ.
Exactly my thoughts. I hate to say it - the endless posted open letters are probably what @PL54 refers to when he describes the 'look at me' culture on here. Maybe it's cathartic, but there are so many now that it has become a little bit of a pissing contest over who has been hurt the most by this regime.
Strangely intolerant and divisive post. If you're not interested in fellow fans' communication with the club and any response, you might want to consider avoiding a thread titled 'Letter to Charlton and response'.
So people are now meant to avoid threads where they disagree with either an outcome or reaction? Or, to be more accurate, where someone may feel empathy with people at lower levels within the club who have to carry out a lose-lose situation?
Furthermore, you missed out the part of his post where he said he agreed with writing letters:
That is not to say that sending the emails is pointless in itself, I think that there is something to be said for the impact caused by an overwhelming general weight negative correspondence.
We are all upset, most, if not all of us want change. But we cannot criticize the regime for not listening to outside opinions when we ostracize our own who have even a slightly different perspective on dissent.
I think going into a thread titled 'Charlton letter and response' and posting:
'... the endless posted open letters are probably what @PL54 refers to when he describes the 'look at me' culture on here. Maybe it's cathartic, but there are so many now that it has become a little bit of a pissing contest over who has been hurt the most by this regime.'
is pretty divisive and arguably provocative and disrespectful. You have no issue with this, fair enough. I do. We're all different.
Loads of people have posted open letters to the club on here - an open forum - so I'll respond if I wish. After about the 15th virtually identical letter, my personal view is that they don't add that much value as we clearly aren't going to receive a personal, noteworthy response. I also feel it has descended a little into who can write the most wallowing memoire and post it on here, pretty much just for our benefit.
I probably shouldn't have bothered saying anything, in fact I nearly didn't. But what the hell, that's my opinion and this is a forum after all. SOZ.
It's ironic that most of the letters sent to the club are indistinguishable from each other yet when the reply is the same it's shocking and insulting.
Ultimately the aim of CARD, as I understand it, was to encourage so many fans to send emails to the club that it used up their time and was an inconvenience. I suspect that had been achieved but it was unrealistic to expect one person (or a whole team of them) to draft specific individual replies to similar emails that have said they are not renewing anyway.
Thought I would share my latest response from The Supporters Relations Team. Not only has KM outsourced responding to fans emails and letters but it seems fairly clear that they know as little as we do about what's going on. I wonder who they complain to when they want answers? I have added a few comments in brackets.
Dear Supporter,
Apologies, we should have replied earlier to this. [understandable guven the unprecedented levelw of customer dissatisfaction]
Re putting out a statement about the Head of Comms. This isn't something that the club would normally do. Statements are usually reserved for playing/coaching staff or long-serving members staff members. [well she certainly couldn't be classed as long serving]
As for your other points, you have made your position clear.
Patently the most important thing now is change and progress. In terms of strategy moving forward, that is the job of the Board to communicate that. Unfortunately, we cannot give you a timeframe for that, but we would hope it would be soon. [me too, that's why I wrote]
We do appreciate there is a long road ahead, which makes it all the more important we do set out that strategy. [you mean the Board, not you]
Thanks again for you support over the years. [that means a lot coming from you]
Comments
'... the endless posted open letters are probably what @PL54 refers to when he describes the 'look at me' culture on here. Maybe it's cathartic, but there are so many now that it has become a little bit of a pissing contest over who has been hurt the most by this regime.'
is pretty divisive and arguably provocative and disrespectful. You have no issue with this, fair enough. I do. We're all different.
We have all lived with the 1001 emails where everybody is copied on everything by anybody and everybody looking to cover their arse or sell you something but there is a simple principle in place when dealing with customer, client communications - you respond, politely to the specific points raised.
It is the difference between managing a functional necessity of "I have respond to this" and actually communicating to a paying customer.
Of course with electronic media your clientele can bombard you with all sorts of nonsense in an instant but the same technology allows a business to respond.
Any communication for any business will largely fall into certain categories. The club will have a position on each of those categories. Simple scanning technology will identify the key words within any communication and can be used to produce a tailored response covering each of the categories raised by the client.
Equally the scanning functionality can identify key elements of any communication which falls outside of any normal category parameters.
Then the communications staff rather than have to draft a specific response to each letter or simply issue a blanket meaningless non committal "jobs worth" generic response can review each response confirm it answers each of the points raised adjust it accordingly or refer it for further consideration.
Every "letter" of complaint is a sales opportunity and an opportunity to inform providing you have something to sell and something to say.
This is where the true challenge lies. The whole task instead of being embraced as a genuine opportunity to interact and give the executive the chance to really focus on what it needs to and wants to say to its clientele has by this regime been positioned as a chore. It has no wish to genuinely communicate, has little idea what to actually say and indeed has little of any specific value to say.
Despite the professionalism being ratcheted up a few notches in business terms it is another huge own goal. Instead of sitting down and putting down some genuine thoughts, some real details of the specific actions and policies the club intends to pursue to put things right it seeks to hide once again by speaking to mere generalities to get the immediate problem of the desk but which does nothing to address the heart of the problems.
Importantly it does absolutely nothing to benefit the bottom line. It evidences the tick list culture and mentality of the regime and once again displays its lack of working knowledge of the market in which they operate.
I'm more than happy to bash the club about many things that have happened recently but fair play on this one. If the email had been ignored they'd get abuse. The email was responded to (admittedly it wasn't in the most eloquent way) and they still get abuse.
"Best regards
The Supporter Relations Team"
whats wrong with
Love Phil x
*Hi Ray
There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.
Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
Best regards
The Supporter Relations Team*
I probably shouldn't have bothered saying anything, in fact I nearly didn't. But what the hell, that's my opinion and this is a forum after all. SOZ.
I do not expect KM/RM/RD to respond personally, but this has clearly been set up as a buffer zone.
Ultimately the aim of CARD, as I understand it, was to encourage so many fans to send emails to the club that it used up their time and was an inconvenience. I suspect that had been achieved but it was unrealistic to expect one person (or a whole team of them) to draft specific individual replies to similar emails that have said they are not renewing anyway.
Para 1 pro noun choice incorrect : very not well
Para 1 spelling incorrect: going to not gonna
Para 1 proper noun incorrect : Belgians
Para 1 sentence should conclude with question mark not a full stop .
Salutation incorrect - Dear Sir / Yours Faithfully or Dear Charlton / Yours Sincerely
On the contrary ,not at all a good letter from Mike Hunt .
Dear Supporter,
Apologies, we should have replied earlier to this. [understandable guven the unprecedented levelw of customer dissatisfaction]
Re putting out a statement about the Head of Comms. This isn't something that the club would normally do. Statements are usually reserved for playing/coaching staff or long-serving members staff members. [well she certainly couldn't be classed as long serving]
As for your other points, you have made your position clear.
Patently the most important thing now is change and progress. In terms of strategy moving forward, that is the job of the Board to communicate that. Unfortunately, we cannot give you a timeframe for that, but we would hope it would be soon. [me too, that's why I wrote]
We do appreciate there is a long road ahead, which makes it all the more important we do set out that strategy. [you mean the Board, not you]
Thanks again for you support over the years. [that means a lot coming from you]
Best regards
The Supporter Relations Team.