The thread about Boxing

Carter · October 22

brownbear said:

I can't get the Wardley vs Hunni fight out of my thoughts. Hunni schooled him for eleven rounds, hit and moved beautifully and made Wardley look a bit silly at times. Can't help thinking that Parker is a step too far for Wardley, and a nasty stoppage could be on the cards.

Absolutely how I see it

Without being too much of a stereotype, heavyweight boxing is a bit different. Wardley can really punch and its a bit of an equaliser, he is also properly tough. So is Parker

I think the only way Wardley wins is if Parker has not trained properly, is already looking past him or gets lazy on the night

I love Fabio Wardley though, isn't mucking about having gimmes. No amateur pedigree and not that long ago was boxing at white collar shows. Think about that for a second. Most men in the UK walk around at the heavyweight limit, imagine signing up for one of those, doing the 6 weeks training and then meeting him!

Blackheathen · October 22

Thanks for comments guys. Have a great night Milan. And Carter, Joe was interviewed the other day, saying this has been his best-ever camp. He should be very fit.

Blackheathen · October 24

Parker had a 9kg weight advantage at the weigh in

JohnBoyUK · October 25

Parker and War just had one hell of a tear up!

Milan · October 26

Credit to Wardley, I didn't see that result coming! A real all action heavyweight tear up, great entertainment I must say.

I was surprised that alcohol was freely available throughout the O2, allowing people to return to their seats with booze (unlike say York Hall, where you have to remain in the bar). It kicked off in the crowd 3-4 times as it always does at the boxing. Makes me wonder why booze is allowed in this environment but not at the football. Not being preachy btw, I was more than happy to have beers myself!

buckshee · October 26

Milan said:

Credit to Wardley, I didn't see that result coming! A real all action heavyweight tear up, great entertainment I must say.

I was surprised that alcohol was freely available throughout the O2, allowing people to return to their seats with booze (unlike say York Hall, where you have to remain in the bar). It kicked off in the crowd 3-4 times as it always does at the boxing. Makes me wonder why booze is allowed in this environment but not at the football. Not being preachy btw, I was more than happy to have beers myself!

As far as I remember you can have booze anywhere but the ringside seats there, I had ringside a couple of times and would sit a bit further back for the undercard fights so I could have a drink.

Blackheathen · October 27

Surprised there isn’t more enthusiasm for Fabio. Don’t you see him as the next Lennox or AJ?

superclive98 · October 27

Blackheathen said:

Surprised there isn’t more enthusiasm for Fabio. Don’t you see him as the next Lennox or AJ?

No, not really that good.
Parker fought a very poor fight. He could have easily fought a conservative fight to beat Wardley, but he decided to go all out and take the associated risks. It cost him and he lost, even though I thought the stoppage was a tad early.

2121 · October 28

Looked like an early stoppage to me. Parker was tired, but in the slow mo replay, from memory it looked like fabio was missing shots and parker looked fine (but tired).
I thought fabio was impressive just to last that long with parker, so fair play

king addick · October 28

Blackheathen said:

Surprised there isn’t more enthusiasm for Fabio. Don’t you see him as the next Lennox or AJ?

Nope. Not as good by a longshot.

Would Wardley in his current prime era stack up against those fighters in their prime?

For what is worth, he isnt a good boxer but has a great chin and an equaliser but when he comes up against Usyk or Itauma, he will be found out for sure.

bobmunro · October 28

Blackheathen said:

Surprised there isn’t more enthusiasm for Fabio. Don’t you see him as the next Lennox or AJ?

The next superstar British heavyweight will be Moses Itauma - Fabio is not in his league.

I would put AJ ahead of Fabio - and all of them are a distance behind Lennox who is in my top ten of all time.

Carter · October 28

bobmunro said:

Blackheathen said:

Surprised there isn’t more enthusiasm for Fabio. Don’t you see him as the next Lennox or AJ?

The next superstar British heavyweight will be Moses Itauma - Fabio is not in his league.
I would put AJ ahead of Fabio - and all of them are a distance behind Lennox who is in my top ten of all time.

I've given up having arguments with people over Lennox. He was appreciated by the purists I've decided then those who don't like him as a person or who seemingly watch a different sport to me choose Vitali, Fury or Joshua as a better fighter and I have to walk away.

Fabio Wardley deserves all the flowers he gets, its a real story of an underdog and one I'm there for however he was a bit fortunate in his last two fights. Fortunate is maybe the wrong word, he got himself into the position to win both by stoppage.

Usyck is in the conversation for one of the best ever. His movement and boxing intelligence is elite. As British fans any American will argue we are biased as its all British fighters we have seen him beat who we tend to blow up a bit. He destroyed a very competitive cruiserweight division and like David Haye before him that cannot be underrated. Its asking a lot of Opetaia to step up and compete but I think he is the one fighter who could catch Usyck at the right time

Blackheathen · October 28

The “best ever” is always an interesting topic. I was watching a utube clip last night of Dempsey v Firpo from the 1920s. Blimey. Firpo was down no less than 6 times in the first round (some for short counts) before knocking Dempsey out of the ring in the second. Dempsey knocked him out in the end but I sometimes wonder how todays heavyweight would go v some past champions in their prime.

bobmunro · October 28

Blackheathen said:

The “best ever” is always an interesting topic. I was watching a utube clip last night of Dempsey v Firpo from the 1920s. Blimey. Firpo was down no less than 6 times in the first round (some for short counts) before knocking Dempsey out of the ring in the second. Dempsey knocked him out in the end but I sometimes wonder how todays heavyweight would go v some past champions in their prime.

It's impossible of course to compare with any degree of certainty, but one man tops the GOAT list more often than anyone else - and I would not in any way disagree.

Boxing is one of those sports that hasn't necessarily moved to higher levels compared to most other sports that clearly have. Some of the old timers though would almost certainly be competitive against the best of say the past 20 or 30 years - Louis, Dempsey, Marciano (maybe) and definitely Jack Johnson.

That's one of the joys of the noble art - trying to compare.

thenewbie · October 28

Blackheathen said:

The “best ever” is always an interesting topic. I was watching a utube clip last night of Dempsey v Firpo from the 1920s. Blimey. Firpo was down no less than 6 times in the first round (some for short counts) before knocking Dempsey out of the ring in the second. Dempsey knocked him out in the end but I sometimes wonder how todays heavyweight would go v some past champions in their prime.

Reminds a bit of how Foreman apparently actually got more worried in the Frazier fight AFTER knocking him down. He put the guy down six times but Frazier gets up six times too - not many could do that. Frazier probably would've preferred to die on his shield but luckily it didn't come to that.

SuedeAdidas · October 28

bobmunro said:

Blackheathen said:

Surprised there isn’t more enthusiasm for Fabio. Don’t you see him as the next Lennox or AJ?

The next superstar British heavyweight will be Moses Itauma - Fabio is not in his league.
I would put AJ ahead of Fabio - and all of them are a distance behind Lennox who is in my top ten of all time.

Lennox had everything.

Easily my favourite HW of my lifetime……just in front of Larry Holmes.

bobmunro · October 28

thenewbie said:

Blackheathen said:

The “best ever” is always an interesting topic. I was watching a utube clip last night of Dempsey v Firpo from the 1920s. Blimey. Firpo was down no less than 6 times in the first round (some for short counts) before knocking Dempsey out of the ring in the second. Dempsey knocked him out in the end but I sometimes wonder how todays heavyweight would go v some past champions in their prime.

Reminds a bit of how Foreman apparently actually got more worried in the Frazier fight AFTER knocking him down. He put the guy down six times but Frazier gets up six times too - not many could do that. Frazier probably would've preferred to die on his shield but luckily it didn't come to that.

Strange isn't it, but I rate Joe higher than George on my all-time list. Foreman was a monstrous power puncher but quite one dimensional - his hand speed was slow, as was his movement and stamina - but if he hit you in the head you usually stayed hit! Foreman caught Frazier early and he never had time to recover.

Joe was much better against boxers - his defence was very good against fast, skillful boxers, and he did pack a punch with his left hook. That's why he and Ali were such a great match-up - styles make fights as the old saying goes.

Sorry for rambling but I just love talking about boxing!

McBobbin · October 28

Have to agree that Itauma is looking very good. Surprised Wardley beat Parker, and fair play he'll get a payday against Usyk but will lose easily. The heavyweight scene is pretty stagnant at the moment, there aren't any dream bouts out there that wouldn't have been better 5 years ago.

To the GOAT debate, I think the best contemporary boxer I've seen is Mayweather and I hate him, really wish someone had knocked his head off. Lucky to see Loma in the flesh too but think he's mainly known for his amateur record. I've seen all the classic fights and just wish I'd been about to see Ali in his prime.

Carter · October 29

In terms of eras that seems to sway a lot of people

Lewis was in a good era. Its a crushing shame the Tyson fight happened so late but he fought everyone apart from Riddick Bowe who refused to fight him and the division was miles more competetive in the middle 90s to the very early 2000s than it has been since.

The obsession with no losses has really set boxing back. Floyd was really cute about when he fought people, Usyck has fought everyone given to him and done it as the away fighter. Joe Calzaghe had a lot of nanas on his record, not entirely his own fault as Antonio Tarver, James Toney, Hopkins and Kelly Pavlik didn't want to fight him especially after he took Jeff Lacey to school.

Lennox is well and truly in the chat as one of the best heavyweights ever. An absolute master at the art of boxing and had a serious chin as well

bobmunro · October 29

Carter said:

In terms of eras that seems to sway a lot of people

Lewis was in a good era. Its a crushing shame the Tyson fight happened so late but he fought everyone apart from Riddick Bowe who refused to fight him and the division was miles more competetive in the middle 90s to the very early 2000s than it has been since.

The obsession with no losses has really set boxing back. Floyd was really cute about when he fought people, Usyck has fought everyone given to him and done it as the away fighter. Joe Calzaghe had a lot of nanas on his record, not entirely his own fault as Antonio Tarver, James Toney, Hopkins and Kelly Pavlik didn't want to fight him especially after he took Jeff Lacey to school.

Lennox is well and truly in the chat as one of the best heavyweights ever. An absolute master at the art of boxing and had a serious chin as well

I hugely respect your views on boxing and I can't disagree with any of that, especially the obsession with no losses. The greatness of Muhammad Ali isn't diminished because he lost five times - at his peak just before the ban he was awe inspiring, and will always remain my ultimate sporting hero, but also a hero as a human being.

bobmunro · October 29

McBobbin said:

Have to agree that Itauma is looking very good. Surprised Wardley beat Parker, and fair play he'll get a payday against Usyk but will lose easily. The heavyweight scene is pretty stagnant at the moment, there aren't any dream bouts out there that wouldn't have been better 5 years ago.

To the GOAT debate, I think the best contemporary boxer I've seen is Mayweather and I hate him, really wish someone had knocked his head off. Lucky to see Loma in the flesh too but think he's mainly known for his amateur record. I've seen all the classic fights and just wish I'd been about to see Ali in his prime.

Mayweather was an amazing technician and I'm lucky to have seen him in the flesh (vs Manny) - but intensely dislikeable.

Being an old git my contemporaries go back a bit further and I would put Ray Leonard above him at welterweight. Bang up to date, I think Bud would also have beaten him at 10-7.

Ali in his prime was a thing of beauty - if you haven't seen the Cleveland Williams fight then have a gander on YouTube. The fight against Ernie Terrell (what's my name) as well - although Ali showed his viscous side in that one!

AndyG · October 29

bobmunro said:

Carter said:

In terms of eras that seems to sway a lot of people

Lewis was in a good era. Its a crushing shame the Tyson fight happened so late but he fought everyone apart from Riddick Bowe who refused to fight him and the division was miles more competetive in the middle 90s to the very early 2000s than it has been since.

The obsession with no losses has really set boxing back. Floyd was really cute about when he fought people, Usyck has fought everyone given to him and done it as the away fighter. Joe Calzaghe had a lot of nanas on his record, not entirely his own fault as Antonio Tarver, James Toney, Hopkins and Kelly Pavlik didn't want to fight him especially after he took Jeff Lacey to school.

Lennox is well and truly in the chat as one of the best heavyweights ever. An absolute master at the art of boxing and had a serious chin as well

I hugely respect your views on boxing and I can't disagree with any of that, especially the obsession with no losses. The greatness of Muhammad Ali isn't diminished because he lost five times - at his peak just before the ban he was awe inspiring, and will always remain my ultimate sporting hero, but also a hero as a human being.

100% Bob. In my view Ali was “The Greatest” an awesome athlete as well as a magnificent person. He truly transcended sport. Those nights in the odean Leicester Sq watching his fight live still live long in my memory!

That’s right lads in those days to watch a big fight live you had to go to a cinema lol

McBobbin · October 29

bobmunro said:

McBobbin said:

Have to agree that Itauma is looking very good. Surprised Wardley beat Parker, and fair play he'll get a payday against Usyk but will lose easily. The heavyweight scene is pretty stagnant at the moment, there aren't any dream bouts out there that wouldn't have been better 5 years ago.

To the GOAT debate, I think the best contemporary boxer I've seen is Mayweather and I hate him, really wish someone had knocked his head off. Lucky to see Loma in the flesh too but think he's mainly known for his amateur record. I've seen all the classic fights and just wish I'd been about to see Ali in his prime.

Mayweather was an amazing technician and I'm lucky to have seen him in the flesh (vs Manny) - but intensely dislikeable.

Being an old git my contemporaries go back a bit further and I would put Ray Leonard above him at welterweight. Bang up to date, I think Bud would also have beaten him at 10-7.

Ali in his prime was a thing of beauty - if you haven't seen the Cleveland Williams fight then have a gander on YouTube. The fight against Ernie Terrell (what's my name) as well - although Ali showed his viscous side in that one!

I'll check them out! I'm "well jel" that you saw some great fighters. My favourites I used to watch whenever I could are the likes of Benn, Lewis, Bruno, Naz, Eubank, Hatton, Joshua and, erm, Paul Ingle (not quite in the same bracket, but he was like a wind up toy

) but only Lewis of those is truly in the GOAT discussion, maybe Naz

superclive98 · October 29

Carter said:

In terms of eras that seems to sway a lot of people

Lewis was in a good era. Its a crushing shame the Tyson fight happened so late but he fought everyone apart from Riddick Bowe who refused to fight him and the division was miles more competetive in the middle 90s to the very early 2000s than it has been since.

The obsession with no losses has really set boxing back. Floyd was really cute about when he fought people, Usyck has fought everyone given to him and done it as the away fighter. Joe Calzaghe had a lot of nanas on his record, not entirely his own fault as Antonio Tarver, James Toney, Hopkins and Kelly Pavlik didn't want to fight him especially after he took Jeff Lacey to school.

Lennox is well and truly in the chat as one of the best heavyweights ever. An absolute master at the art of boxing and had a serious chin as well

Hus chin didn't look too good against McCall and Rahman.

Carter · October 29

McBobbin said:

bobmunro said:

McBobbin said:

Have to agree that Itauma is looking very good. Surprised Wardley beat Parker, and fair play he'll get a payday against Usyk but will lose easily. The heavyweight scene is pretty stagnant at the moment, there aren't any dream bouts out there that wouldn't have been better 5 years ago.

To the GOAT debate, I think the best contemporary boxer I've seen is Mayweather and I hate him, really wish someone had knocked his head off. Lucky to see Loma in the flesh too but think he's mainly known for his amateur record. I've seen all the classic fights and just wish I'd been about to see Ali in his prime.

Mayweather was an amazing technician and I'm lucky to have seen him in the flesh (vs Manny) - but intensely dislikeable.

Being an old git my contemporaries go back a bit further and I would put Ray Leonard above him at welterweight. Bang up to date, I think Bud would also have beaten him at 10-7.

Ali in his prime was a thing of beauty - if you haven't seen the Cleveland Williams fight then have a gander on YouTube. The fight against Ernie Terrell (what's my name) as well - although Ali showed his viscous side in that one!

I'll check them out! I'm "well jel" that you saw some great fighters. My favourites I used to watch whenever I could are the likes of Benn, Lewis, Bruno, Naz, Eubank, Hatton, Joshua and, erm, Paul Ingle (not quite in the same bracket, but he was like a wind up toy ) but only Lewis of those is truly in the GOAT discussion, maybe Naz

I think me and you must be a similar age, and taste, I loved watching Paul Ingle too. A lot of those Wincobank fighters actually. Johnny Nelson was a favourite he had a horrible style but was like watching us at the moment. Took fights into the second half and a mixture of his conditioning and craftiness just worked. Ryan Rhodes, Naseem without naming them all I loved listening to Brendan Ingle speak and the names he would give the fighters. That era was a great time for boxing as much as it was a not so great time in terms of coverage I suppose. The Mexican fighters Barrera, Morales and Marquez were boxing porn to watch then Cotto as he was emerging along to Pacquiaos rise culminating in him absolutely serving Oscar De La Hoya his arse in a career defining fight. I though De La Hoya was unlucky not to beat Floyd too.

Mickey Ward, Steve Collins, Eubank and Benn, Joe Calzaghe, Robin Reid, Danny Williams of course Ricky Hatton and imagining but not really believing how far he would go after the Macgee fight. Not to mention the fighters who were always great value to watch. Tony Oakey, Johnny Armour, Steve Foster the viking, Richie Woodhall and Rob McCracken and my favourite Howard Eastman

Some of these guys would have huge careers if the sport was as widely broadcast then as it is now

Anyway I'm getting all misty-eyed and have a wet days work to start as opposed to watching YouTube videos of Johnny Armour fights

Carter · October 29

superclive98 said:

Carter said:

In terms of eras that seems to sway a lot of people

Lewis was in a good era. Its a crushing shame the Tyson fight happened so late but he fought everyone apart from Riddick Bowe who refused to fight him and the division was miles more competetive in the middle 90s to the very early 2000s than it has been since.

The obsession with no losses has really set boxing back. Floyd was really cute about when he fought people, Usyck has fought everyone given to him and done it as the away fighter. Joe Calzaghe had a lot of nanas on his record, not entirely his own fault as Antonio Tarver, James Toney, Hopkins and Kelly Pavlik didn't want to fight him especially after he took Jeff Lacey to school.

Lennox is well and truly in the chat as one of the best heavyweights ever. An absolute master at the art of boxing and had a serious chin as well

Hus chin didn't look too good against McCall and Rahman.

I maintain a lack of concentration or application shouldn't be confused for someone not having a chin. Amir Khan gets unfairly labelled as chinny. Have a watch of the Lewis fight v Vitali or Khan v Maidana. Lewis didn't use his face as a defence in the same way someone like Carl Froch did but he could take a heavy shot.

blackpool72 · October 29

superclive98 said:

Carter said:

In terms of eras that seems to sway a lot of people

Lewis was in a good era. Its a crushing shame the Tyson fight happened so late but he fought everyone apart from Riddick Bowe who refused to fight him and the division was miles more competetive in the middle 90s to the very early 2000s than it has been since.

The obsession with no losses has really set boxing back. Floyd was really cute about when he fought people, Usyck has fought everyone given to him and done it as the away fighter. Joe Calzaghe had a lot of nanas on his record, not entirely his own fault as Antonio Tarver, James Toney, Hopkins and Kelly Pavlik didn't want to fight him especially after he took Jeff Lacey to school.

Lennox is well and truly in the chat as one of the best heavyweights ever. An absolute master at the art of boxing and had a serious chin as well

Hus chin didn't look too good against McCall and Rahman.

They were the only 2 defeats he suffered.
He went on to avenge them both.
At heavyweight anyone can suffer a KO if they are unfortunate enough to be on the end of a huge one.

king addick · October 29

Lewis prep against Rahman was shocking and he paid the price. McCall was decent and got his shot away. Good thing about Lewis though is that he avenged the losses with aplomb.

If it is based purely on boxing then for me Lennox is the best heavyweight of all time. In terms of aura and influence then Ali is top tier for what he did outside the ring aswell as in.

bobmunro · October 29

king addick said:

Lewis prep against Rahman was shocking and he paid the price. McCall was decent and got his shot away. Good thing about Lewis though is that he avenged the losses with aplomb.

If it is based purely on boxing then for me Lennox is the best heavyweight of all time. In terms of aura and influence then Ali is top tier for what he did outside the ring aswell as in.

I wouldn't go that far, but LL is in my top ten - and a squeak at top five. Based purely on boxing then there is only one GOAT at heavyweight, in my opinion!

bobmunro · October 29

Carter said:

McBobbin said:

bobmunro said:

McBobbin said:

Have to agree that Itauma is looking very good. Surprised Wardley beat Parker, and fair play he'll get a payday against Usyk but will lose easily. The heavyweight scene is pretty stagnant at the moment, there aren't any dream bouts out there that wouldn't have been better 5 years ago.

To the GOAT debate, I think the best contemporary boxer I've seen is Mayweather and I hate him, really wish someone had knocked his head off. Lucky to see Loma in the flesh too but think he's mainly known for his amateur record. I've seen all the classic fights and just wish I'd been about to see Ali in his prime.

Mayweather was an amazing technician and I'm lucky to have seen him in the flesh (vs Manny) - but intensely dislikeable.

Being an old git my contemporaries go back a bit further and I would put Ray Leonard above him at welterweight. Bang up to date, I think Bud would also have beaten him at 10-7.

Ali in his prime was a thing of beauty - if you haven't seen the Cleveland Williams fight then have a gander on YouTube. The fight against Ernie Terrell (what's my name) as well - although Ali showed his viscous side in that one!

I'll check them out! I'm "well jel" that you saw some great fighters. My favourites I used to watch whenever I could are the likes of Benn, Lewis, Bruno, Naz, Eubank, Hatton, Joshua and, erm, Paul Ingle (not quite in the same bracket, but he was like a wind up toy ) but only Lewis of those is truly in the GOAT discussion, maybe Naz

I think me and you must be a similar age, and taste, I loved watching Paul Ingle too. A lot of those Wincobank fighters actually. Johnny Nelson was a favourite he had a horrible style but was like watching us at the moment. Took fights into the second half and a mixture of his conditioning and craftiness just worked. Ryan Rhodes, Naseem without naming them all I loved listening to Brendan Ingle speak and the names he would give the fighters. That era was a great time for boxing as much as it was a not so great time in terms of coverage I suppose. The Mexican fighters Barrera, Morales and Marquez were boxing porn to watch then Cotto as he was emerging along to Pacquiaos rise culminating in him absolutely serving Oscar De La Hoya his arse in a career defining fight. I though De La Hoya was unlucky not to beat Floyd too.

Mickey Ward, Steve Collins, Eubank and Benn, Joe Calzaghe, Robin Reid, Danny Williams of course Ricky Hatton and imagining but not really believing how far he would go after the Macgee fight. Not to mention the fighters who were always great value to watch. Tony Oakey, Johnny Armour, Steve Foster the viking, Richie Woodhall and Rob McCracken and my favourite Howard Eastman

Some of these guys would have huge careers if the sport was as widely broadcast then as it is now

Anyway I'm getting all misty-eyed and have a wet days work to start as opposed to watching YouTube videos of Johnny Armour fights

I'm a bit older! I'll add another British fighter who but for the wacky backy and a dubious approach to discipline would have been a world champion - and one of my favourite ever fighters to watch.

Kirkland Laing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr76moW7Ojg

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