After relegation, CAFC will become a black hole draining money. He could asset strip and get money out of staprix and close it down legitimately, that would close his exposure to even more serious losses over time. What are the implications for him to close CAFC putting 2 fingers up at fans ?
What is amazing about Roland closing down Charlton Athletic, either as asset stripping, or in a fit of pique, will be that the very people who remain there, and do whatever Roland says (because they have families to feed), will be the very people who become unemployed. There is a cadre of staff who will not dissent or oppose Roland for a variety of reasons, the main one being they need the job, yet they are possibly backing up the very person who is going to make their job disappear.
After relegation, CAFC will become a black hole draining money. He could asset strip and get money out of staprix and close it down legitimately, that would close his exposure to even more serious losses over time. What are the implications for him to close CAFC putting 2 fingers up at fans ?
What is amazing about Roland closing down Charlton Athletic, either as asset stripping, or in a fit of pique, will be that the very people who remain there, and do whatever Roland says (because they have families to feed), will be the very people who become unemployed. There is a cadre of staff who will not dissent or oppose Roland for a variety of reasons, the main one being they need the job, yet they are possibly backing up the very person who is going to make their job disappear.
'I'll back him 'till my sacking'.
Point taken, but there must be many staff who are against the owners but need the job.
I feel very sorry for them, many years ago I thought working for Charlton would be the best job ever in the world.
I think RD will continue to feed his delusional belief that only two years into his project even relegation and revenue losses are merely short term teething issues with his grand project. As he gets things at the club running his way and his ideas mature, things will pick up and success will be achieved. It's a five to ten year project.
SHG - while I agree that he originally looked upon this as a five to ten year project I honestly believe he will reverse his decision. A lot has changed since he acquired us. Changes to Championship FPP rules means it costs him a few £m a year even if he wanted to stay in the Championship. He will be aware his "coaches" have not been successful (despite what Pinochio says). He will be even more aware that he has been badly advised on player purchases. The resale value of nearly all of his "investments in players will be considerably less. It is very unlikely he would have factored in finances in League 1 and certainly not have understood them. He certainly won't have factored in CARD, the season ticket boycott, sponsorship withdrawals etc.
He will have invested £38m to June 2015 which will probably be £45m to the end of this season. Next years budget will show losses of between £5m and £10m depending on how honest the budget is.
This will dawn on him at some point! He will then look for a face saving way out.
I hope it isn't! Now, looking for the HMRC report a tax evader web site.
Haa! Just looked there is a form but the silly sods won't let you submit it without your contact details.
Hoping it isn't above board was my first thought, but I reckon it's far more likely that she is working under IR35 or is paid directly by another part of the Evil Empire. It's obvious she knows sod all about football, but I don't reckon she is stupid enough to illegally dodge her taxes when there are plenty of legal loopholes she can exploit. I would imagine there would be repercussions on her ability to operate as a lawyer if she had convictions for tax fraud, so I'd be pretty confident that she has covered her backside with regards to that so that she doesn't cut off her Pinocchio-sized hooter to spite her face from an employment perspective.
What are the different avenues she could be employed under? I'm going to take a punt - albeit with the admission that I'm not the most clued up on the subject - and guess these are the three issues:
- Full Time, PAYE
Would be the obvious choice, she has a permanent appointment at The Club and presumably is entitled to the benefits given to a full time employee. (Private medical cover, phone and so on)
- Self Employed (i.e Sole Trader)
This offers very little in way of tax management as far as I know, but would make some sense as she presumably has multiple income streams; as demonstrated by her (presumably paid for) appearances at conferences.
Having an official appointment at Charlton would be an issue with IR35 though. However you look at it, as CEO she is a full time employee; she can't send someone to work in that capacity in her place.
- Self Employed, via Ltd Company
I'm going to say this is a no go, purely because she's not listed as a director of any other company.. in the UK at least. I don't think she is in Belgium either - but I could well be wrong. Furthermore, I have no idea how you could contract out the services of a CEO to a company - nor how that would fly with regards to IR35.
It's a long shot, but does Belgium have a system like Sweden where you can look up the amount of taxes paid by a citizen?
As a CEO she cannot legally be self employed. It has to go through the PAYE system. It would be nice to think this is not happening but I suspect it is somehow. She is liable to UK tax whether she is being paid by CAFC or from anywhere else, even if this is abroad. There is no legal way for her to get out of this. It would be nice to set a HMRC enquiry in motion.
It is terminal, but for the Belgians not the club.
Please explain
The debt mountain and the fact he can't contain it will eventually force him to sell the club, stubborn bastard that he is. He's not getting his money back whatever he does, the only possible way without jumping huge planning hurdles is to pump in much more and then get lucky. That's not who he is at all, IMO.
His only way out is to get lucky. Get promoted this season, take a gamble with transfers when we go up and hope to get to The Premiership the next season.
its his ego !!!!! FFS it dosnt matter what it says on paper his ego will not except HIS FAILURE !!
so a company he owns owes another company he owns £38 mil ? so what ??? its all "work in progress" as far as his ego is concerned and ALL of his followers will agree with the "work in progress" mantra.
Our ONLY hope is that he will take £20mill --ish and feck off . He of course wont see his monumental FAILURE as such , its just another social experiment that didnt work because "OTHERS" wouldnt let it or "understand" it
its his ego !!!!! FFS it dosnt matter what it says on paper his ego will not except HIS FAILURE !!
so a company he owns owes another company he owns £38 mil ? so what ??? its all "work in progress" as far as his ego is concerned and ALL of his followers will agree with the "work in progress" mantra.
Our ONLY hope is that he will take £20mill --ish and feck off . He of course wont see his monumental FAILURE as such , its just another social experiment that didnt work because "OTHERS" wouldnt let it or "understand" it
Was chatting with a good pal, who is in the industry, on Friday night and that's the figure he mentioned as being one that should get a deal done. He appreciates our "unique" owner's idiosyncrasies, but that's the amount that would be seen as appropriate from a buyer's perspective.
its his ego !!!!! FFS it dosnt matter what it says on paper his ego will not except HIS FAILURE !!
so a company he owns owes another company he owns £38 mil ? so what ??? its all "work in progress" as far as his ego is concerned and ALL of his followers will agree with the "work in progress" mantra.
Our ONLY hope is that he will take £20mill --ish and feck off . He of course wont see his monumental FAILURE as such , its just another social experiment that didnt work because "OTHERS" wouldnt let it or "understand" it
You're assuming that Staprix has funded the loan. It may just be the entity he uses to borrow it from a bank because he can get a better interest rate that way due to the security it offers and possibly tax advantages, I guess. He could be funding the loan from his own personal resources, but I doubt it.
With all these player sales how much might he debt have grown since the £38m reported in the 2014/15 accounts?
I'd guess the operating loss last year was around £6m. Could be more, but £1m would be his interest to Staprix. The capital works at the TG will have added to the debt on top of that.
This year's loss I'd put at £8-£9m ball park, but he's probably up £4m in fees. With capital works, probably £50m at the end of this season?
This includes what he paid for the club, which ought to represent the value of the assets, plus there is the £7m still owed to former directors to be recognised in any sale price.
The question still remains though, who will buy us? I just can't see it happening from anyone in the near future.
That's not really the question at all. It has been stated by KM herself that they've had many offers to buy the club. The real questions are when will Roly sell and who to? A sale is inevitable as this guy has stated he wants to make money from football. So far all he has done is lose money, consistently.
Varney knows the score--he knows major football clubs and their dosh issues and he understands their cash flows, etc. Yet he still had an investor. They are out there---its the due diligence thats the issue.
IMO Roland never did any due diligence worthy of the term he was all about getting another club into his pan euro social football experiment.
is the £38 mil actual debt ? or does it INCLUDE the money Roland paid for us in the first place? some £14/12 million ? did he "loan" the money to pay for us?
His only way out is to get lucky. Get promoted this season, take a gamble with transfers when we go up and hope to get to The Premiership the next season.
I don't believe he is a gambler though.
Which if he does will make you wonder why he just didn't do this in the first place. All of what's happened in his tenure needn't have happened. He could have quite easily came in and backed his manager. hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the whole situation was avoidable.
its his ego !!!!! FFS it dosnt matter what it says on paper his ego will not except HIS FAILURE !!
so a company he owns owes another company he owns £38 mil ? so what ??? its all "work in progress" as far as his ego is concerned and ALL of his followers will agree with the "work in progress" mantra.
Our ONLY hope is that he will take £20mill --ish and feck off . He of course wont see his monumental FAILURE as such , its just another social experiment that didnt work because "OTHERS" wouldnt let it or "understand" it
Was chatting with a good pal, who is in the industry, on Friday night and that's the figure he mentioned as being one that should get a deal done. He appreciates our "unique" owner's idiosyncrasies, but that's the amount that would be seen as appropriate from a buyer's perspective.
Before or after the Guinness & Jameson? Don't tell me during.
Comments
There is a cadre of staff who will not dissent or oppose Roland for a variety of reasons, the main one being they need the job, yet they are possibly backing up the very person who is going to make their job disappear.
'I'll back him 'till my sacking'.
I feel very sorry for them, many years ago I thought working for Charlton would be the best job ever in the world.
That is the danger.
He will be aware his "coaches" have not been successful (despite what Pinochio says). He will be even more aware that he has been badly advised on player purchases. The resale value of nearly all of his "investments in players will be considerably less.
It is very unlikely he would have factored in finances in League 1 and certainly not have understood them.
He certainly won't have factored in CARD, the season ticket boycott, sponsorship withdrawals etc.
He will have invested £38m to June 2015 which will probably be £45m to the end of this season. Next years budget will show losses of between £5m and £10m depending on how honest the budget is.
This will dawn on him at some point!
He will then look for a face saving way out.
Haa! Just looked there is a form but the silly sods won't let you submit it without your contact details.
Hoping it isn't above board was my first thought, but I reckon it's far more likely that she is working under IR35 or is paid directly by another part of the Evil Empire. It's obvious she knows sod all about football, but I don't reckon she is stupid enough to illegally dodge her taxes when there are plenty of legal loopholes she can exploit. I would imagine there would be repercussions on her ability to operate as a lawyer if she had convictions for tax fraud, so I'd be pretty confident that she has covered her backside with regards to that so that she doesn't cut off her Pinocchio-sized hooter to spite her face from an employment perspective.
What are the different avenues she could be employed under? I'm going to take a punt - albeit with the admission that I'm not the most clued up on the subject - and guess these are the three issues:
- Full Time, PAYE
Would be the obvious choice, she has a permanent appointment at The Club and presumably is entitled to the benefits given to a full time employee. (Private medical cover, phone and so on)
- Self Employed (i.e Sole Trader)
This offers very little in way of tax management as far as I know, but would make some sense as she presumably has multiple income streams; as demonstrated by her (presumably paid for) appearances at conferences.
Having an official appointment at Charlton would be an issue with IR35 though. However you look at it, as CEO she is a full time employee; she can't send someone to work in that capacity in her place.
- Self Employed, via Ltd Company
I'm going to say this is a no go, purely because she's not listed as a director of any other company.. in the UK at least. I don't think she is in Belgium either - but I could well be wrong. Furthermore, I have no idea how you could contract out the services of a CEO to a company - nor how that would fly with regards to IR35.
It's a long shot, but does Belgium have a system like Sweden where you can look up the amount of taxes paid by a citizen?
As a CEO she cannot legally be self employed. It has to go through the PAYE system.
It would be nice to think this is not happening but I suspect it is somehow.
She is liable to UK tax whether she is being paid by CAFC or from anywhere else, even if this is abroad. There is no legal way for her to get out of this.
It would be nice to set a HMRC enquiry in motion.
I don't believe he is a gambler though.
CAFC will live on. Probably on Woolwich common but ALWAYS in our hearts!
so a company he owns owes another company he owns £38 mil ? so what ??? its all "work in progress" as far as his ego is concerned and ALL of his followers will agree with the "work in progress" mantra.
Our ONLY hope is that he will take £20mill --ish and feck off . He of course wont see his monumental FAILURE as such , its just another social experiment that didnt work because "OTHERS" wouldnt let it or "understand" it
This year's loss I'd put at £8-£9m ball park, but he's probably up £4m in fees. With capital works, probably £50m at the end of this season?
This includes what he paid for the club, which ought to represent the value of the assets, plus there is the £7m still owed to former directors to be recognised in any sale price.
IMO Roland never did any due diligence worthy of the term he was all about getting another club into his pan euro social football experiment.
is the £38 mil actual debt ? or does it INCLUDE the money Roland paid for us in the first place? some £14/12 million ? did he "loan" the money to pay for us?