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The European Union referendum decision

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  • Why would your boss be replaced? He's got a job and would just get a work permit - you know, like most countries

    So if anyone who wants to can work here anyway what's the point of leaving?
  • I'm in

    The UK makes absolutely nothing of any consequence any more, our natural resources production is either shut down or can be done cheaper elsewhere, we import most of our food rather than grow it because supermarkets like it, and that which is grown here is heavily subsidised, and leaving the EU would leave us on the outside looking in as far as trade arrangements.

    It's all well and good having a knowledge and services economy, but - for starters - by definition, that economy only rewards the brightest and best and - looking out of my window in sunny Lancashire, I don't see many rocket engineers, programmers or neuroscientists. I see people who just want to do a day's work for a living and be paid for it (although I also see a bunch of feckless scroungers, but I digress)

    In short, even setting aside the arguments about sovereignty, migration, political identity and globalisation, we'd be fucked if we left.


    But LA those same people seem to be the same ones that believe they are worse off due to the influx of migrants and if the out campaign focuses on that those very same people will probably vote to leave
  • I'm in

    The UK makes absolutely nothing of any consequence any more, our natural resources production is either shut down or can be done cheaper elsewhere, we import most of our food rather than grow it because supermarkets like it, and that which is grown here is heavily subsidised, and leaving the EU would leave us on the outside looking in as far as trade arrangements.

    It's all well and good having a knowledge and services economy, but - for starters - by definition, that economy only rewards the brightest and best and - looking out of my window in sunny Lancashire, I don't see many rocket engineers, programmers or neuroscientists. I see people who just want to do a day's work for a living and be paid for it (although I also see a bunch of feckless scroungers, but I digress)

    In short, even setting aside the arguments about sovereignty, migration, political identity and globalisation, we'd be fucked if we left.


    But LA those same people seem to be the same ones that believe they are worse off due to the influx of migrants and if the out campaign focuses on that those very same people will probably vote to leave
    So education needs to be improved then... :wink:
  • Not long to do it
  • What I don't understand is why so few businesses seem to be explaining the likely costs of a British exit to their employees. Even if it's just the period of uncertainty followed by whatever the best negotiated exit route position is.

    I don't know what percentage of the voting population works for a firm that imports/exports goods or services somewhere in the supply chain. got to be pretty high.







  • It's important to people like me who I believe there are many that for no real reason are considering seriously the leaving of the EU

    That there is somewhere that the arguments for and against are available

    Ideally not Charlton Life but for now for me it is as good a place as anywhere to look
  • I must be very extreme in my view.

    I watched David Cameron on Andrew Marr this morning and found myself in a kind of weird position of disagreeing with him, but still intend to vote to stay.
    it was strange because he banged on about keeping something he called 'sovereignty', and avoiding 'ever closer union' and i found myself thinking but I wouldn't mind that would I? Sacrificing this ethereal thing called sovereignty is appealing to me, as is the notion of ever closer union.
    So weirdly the things Cameron were promoting as triumphs I was thinking well it doesn't feel like that to me. As I have said previously a French nuclear reactor going into meltdown near Calais would be our problem too by din't of geography alone, you can't close the boarders to stuff like that, and co-operation would be the best way forward, rather than checking nuclear pollution for a passport or an entry visa.
    I really do see the case for either option, but I reckon I must be in a tiny minority where I think Cameron has not made much of a case for staying in, but I will support his aspirations anyway.

    This is a tricky and tough issue in my view.
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  • But British people go to work in America/Australia all the time? If he's good enough, he'll get a work permit and be fine.
  • Another reply to the original question. It doesn't really make any difference to me either way.

    But I am definitely going to vote 'stay'. The thought of my son applying for his dream job in Rome, Berlin or Prague and being told that by law the job must preferentially go to any suitable [ Romanian, French, German, ...Scottish?, ....Turkish? ] candidate is what decides me.

    Or I imagine my son running a company in England and desperately trying to recruit the best creative staff but being told he must employ English or Welsh people.

    I'm thinking ten - twenty years ahead. I don't want my generation to remembered for abandoning their children as outsiders because we didn't always get our own way when things were going well for us.

    Welsh !! Ffs;0)

  • If we're in the single market then your son can work anywhere in the single market and can employ anyone within the single market. Why is this so hard to understand?
  • cafcfan said:

    Where will we be able to get the facts not bullshit from though I want all the info with the positives the negatives and the outcome possibilities based on staying and leaving

    Will there be anywhere that issues this info in a non biased way

    Unfortunately, there will be nowhere to get "facts" because there aren't any. The best you can hope for are informed opinions and, perhaps, many of those you can make yourself.
    Take for example the financial services sector - a huge contributor to the UK's economy. It is, currently, the largest exporter of financial services in the World. More Euros are traded in London than anywhere else. What happens if we stay in? Presumably the status quo remains. If we leave, who knows? But, take Deutsche Bank as an example, would it keep its operations: asset management, global banking, corporate, etc. here or move them back to Frankfurt? Is it a coincidence that Citigroup, the US giant, while employing most of its European staff in the UK, has just moved its HQ to Dublin?
    Any significant movement out of such highly paid staff and the financial contribution they make would be a catastrophe. Losses would dwarf the costs of paying a couple of thousand Romanians benefits or being a net contributor to the EU coffers.
    But that's the problem comparing the known issues of being "in" with the unknown quantities of being"out".

    I'm still an "in". I think, depressingly, we are in for a long campaign focussing on the negatives rather than the positives from both sides.
    But, when the dust settles, I'm of the view that the voters built-in bias to " loss aversion" will win the day. This refers to voters tendency to strongly prefer avoiding losses rather than acquiring gains. Studies suggest that losses are twice as powerful psychologically as gains.
    In short, better the devil you know.
    I'm in the undecided camp but I think you make a good point about the devil you know.

    I get the feeling that as we get closer to the day there will be more messages about the risk of the unknown and more statements from big and small businesses warning of the dangers of leaving.

    Going to be very close as it was in Scotland imho.
  • This may be true but I suspect the majority of people voting to leave are assuming otherwise! The whole point is to stop people coming here to work.
  • But British people go to work in America/Australia all the time? If he's good enough, he'll get a work permit and be fine.

    Bit like people coming to work here presumably?

    If they're good enough and are paid what is ok for them and the employers then cool beans.
  • But British people go to work in America/Australia all the time? If he's good enough, he'll get a work permit and be fine.

    Wrong. It's not about being "good enough" in those countries. When I considered moving to Australia, having aleady started to develop a decent career in advertising (and with lots of agencies in Sydney looking for good people) I was told officially that Australia didn't want the likes of me. But if I was a carpenter or a professional cook, welcome to Oz.

  • In because I, like many people, enjoy the benefits of free movement to work and travel in EU countries. I have taken advantage of this to make a career for myself with the British Council, learn a new language and meet people from all around Europe. I can't imagine I would have bothered if I had to apply for a Visa to do it, like I would have to for the USA despite having an American wife.

    That's my personal reason but I truly believe that this type of experience can be a force for good in Britain's relationship with Europe. We must be able to work with our European neighbours and not isolate ourselves whilst trying to recreate the Age of Empire.

    On another note, does anyone else suspect that the whole EU referendum is simply a smokescreen to deflect from the Government's problems/plans at home (I.e the Health Service)? Cameron presenting himself as the champion of the British working people is quite laughable as well. Corbyn's leadership looks completely ineffective on the referendum, playing right into Cameron's hands.
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  • Where is Corbyn? I have not heard or seen anything about him since before Christmas?
  • I just come back from a nice luncheon with my accountant and him being very happy with how my business has gone in the first 18mths, we turn the talk to this in out of EU debate, he is minted done well for himself and someone who I trust with guidance for whats right for my company, he said out it makes no difference to you being in, infact it may help young enterprises as the first government in control should we leave will be keen to show that Britain can work alone and can be built with small business and prosper, as such there may be very supportive tax reliefs and finance support from the government to enable growth in small business enterprise,

    We have a day set in the diary for accounts filing where no doubt I will get to understand more but he did say that ut was worth being in once upon a time when it was all about the finance and trade cant remember what he called it, but then he said it changed to this EU that we see now and is so far from what it was sold to the public as intially that its unrecognisable
  • Fiiish said:

    Where is Corbyn? I have not heard or seen anything about him since before Christmas?

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-comment-britain-eu-reform
  • @nth london addick did you tell him he wasn't a real man as he used spreadsheets : - )
  • I just come back from a nice luncheon with my accountant and him being very happy with how my business has gone in the first 18mths, we turn the talk to this in out of EU debate, he is minted done well for himself and someone who I trust with guidance for whats right for my company, he said out it makes no difference to you being in, infact it may help young enterprises as the first government in control should we leave will be keen to show that Britain can work alone and can be built with small business and prosper, as such there may be very supportive tax reliefs and finance support from the government to enable growth in small business enterprise,

    We have a day set in the diary for accounts filing where no doubt I will get to understand more but he did say that ut was worth being in once upon a time when it was all about the finance and trade cant remember what he called it, but then he said it changed to this EU that we see now and is so far from what it was sold to the public as intially that its unrecognisable

    But did you ask him about how you won that piece of business? With great respect to your accountant, he probably wouldn't have a view on that which has much weight. It would not be his area of expertise. As for

    there may be very supportive tax reliefs and finance support from the government to enable growth in small business enterprise,

    Well isn't that what the government should be doing anyway? EU membership does not stop them. Why do you think Germany has so many thriving SME's. If our government diverted their attention away from the City for a moment, and started taxing the Google's and Facebook's correctly, that programme could start tomorrow. Sod all to do with the EU (except that the EU can help them tax the Facebook scam-merchants)
  • My questions were more based around what would I need to do if we ended up out of the EU with regards to that contract, I will get a better set of questions to pose to him pa

    Lunchtime meets with people that like bubbles and who have their own cellar full of them gets me very quickly back to red cheeked and smiley and no goid forv sensible conversation
  • HI

    He knows my opinion on spreadsheets but then points at his Aston and says spreadsheets points st my renaukt and says no spreadsheets

  • In short, even setting aside the arguments about sovereignty, migration, political identity and globalisation, we'd be fucked if we left.

    Apart from that, what have the Romans ever done for us?

  • edited February 2016

    HI

    He knows my opinion on spreadsheets but then points at his Aston and says spreadsheets points st my renaukt and says spellcheck

    ;)
  • Laurent perrier Rose


    Girls dribk but fucking quality matev
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