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The European Union referendum decision

No one do the normal I am right you are wrong nonsense

People like me need to make an informed choice right now I am so heavily leaning towards the leave argument that I feel totally uniformed on the stay argument

So if we can play nicely

Put up the main reasons you wish to stay in or the deciding factors as to why you are out

Me

I am fed up with people making the decisions on how we spend some of our welfare and decide on border controls, but mainly why people who in countries that are fair less financially powerful or Influencial on the political spectrum having an input that makes life better for their population if they come here than if I went there

I want out and I want out asap
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Comments

  • I'm in because in the age of globalisation it's far better for our country to be part of the largest trading block than on the outside looking in. I wouldn't scaremonger, Britain won't collapse if we leave, we're just better off in.

    As an aside, because the information we get in the media is biased - on both sides - I work for a large multinational firm and get to meet people from different parts of the firm on a regular basis for my job and I've started asking people at the end of meetings what a Brexit would mean from their perspective and to a man the response isn't good. Those are the people I trust, not the Daily Mail and not the Guardian.
  • Where will we be able to get the facts not bullshit from though I want all the info with the positives the negatives and the outcome possibilities based on staying and leaving

    Will there be anywhere that issues this info in a non biased way
  • I'm voting in for purely selfish reasons. Im a European patent attorney, and soon a new court called the unified patent court opens its doors. I won't bore with the details, but part of this court will be based in London. Anyway, this court will deal with pan-eu patents, and later all patents granted through the European system. If the UK leaves the EU, there will be little incentive for non European companies to use UK based patent attorneys, and we will lose out time. If we leave the EU, there will be big consequences.
  • Where will we be able to get the facts not bullshit from though I want all the info with the positives the negatives and the outcome possibilities based on staying and leaving

    Will there be anywhere that issues this info in a non biased way

    I expect there will be lots of 'facts' and figures banded around but they will be skewed towards a stay or leave bias depending on who is presenting them.

    For that reason I think it will end up being a vote on people's gut feel.

    At this stage, I think we'll vote to stay mainly because of fear of the unknown and many will buy the sell that Cameron has negotiated a good deal.

    Personally, I have no idea how I will vote, will see how the arguments unfold.
  • McBobbin said:

    I'm voting in for purely selfish reasons. Im a European patent attorney, and soon a new court called the unified patent court opens its doors. I won't bore with the details, but part of this court will be based in London. Anyway, this court will deal with pan-eu patents, and later all patents granted through the European system. If the UK leaves the EU, there will be little incentive for non European companies to use UK based patent attorneys, and we will lose out time. If we leave the EU, there will be big consequences.

    Your vote should be based on what's right for you great reason for staying in
  • I have little interest in Cameron's deal as I would've voted to stay in anyway.
    For me it is the broader philosophical global village type of stuff that motivates me. I would even be in favour of ever closer union as I don't have such a strong opinion of 'ours' or 'we' or us and them. I do recognise that this issue is not clear cut and there are valid arguments on all sides,

    I will vote according to my personal view, which is the mood music the Conservatives are playing anyway.

    It is interesting politically looking at politicians deciding between principle and practical personal advancement. I think the unpleasant Gove is acting on principle which I admire, and Boris will probably chase the main chance which he thinks will play best for him personally.
  • Like many, I don't yet understand all the arguments for and against so I am undecided.

    But, when we joined it was the EEC, a commercial trading block. I don't like the way this has morphed into the EU, without any real consultation or vote, where the European parliament and European legislators can override the decisions taken by our elected/appointed representatives. Our MEPs have very little influence and our sovereignty is being eroded. I don't want to just be a state in the United States of Europe.

    There are probably many economic and humanitarian reasons to stay in but that, for me, is a strong argument for exit.
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  • I'm voting in.

    If the referendum vote is for Brexit, there will be at least 18 months of negotiations around what this means.

    During this time, no British company will be able to borrow money on the bond markets, no investment will come into the UK, the value of the FTSE upon which the majority of pensions are based will go down by (my estimate) at least a third.

    Only benefit I can see for being out is to reduce the number of unskilled EU migrants.
  • Davo55 said:

    Like many, I don't yet understand all the arguments for and against so I am undecided.

    But, when we joined it was the EEC, a commercial trading block. I don't like the way this has morphed into the EU, without any real consultation or vote, where the European parliament and European legislators can override the decisions taken by our elected/appointed representatives. Our MEPs have very little influence and our sovereignty is being eroded. I don't want to just be a state in the United States of Europe.

    There are probably many economic and humanitarian reasons to stay in but that, for me, is a strong argument for exit.

    Just to say @Davo55, the reason why there have been no previous public consultation/vote is a purely UK government decision.

    But the EEC/EU was conceived as more than a free trade area, even the 1970's Common Market incarnation. If all that the government sought access to was access to a trading bloc, the UK would have stayed in EFTA. And, whisper it quietly, MEPs and EU Commissioners are actually your elected/appointed representatives...

    Part of the reason why UK MEPs have little influence is that a) the Tories have aligned themselves with a very right wing grouping in the Parliament and b) UKIP MEPs deliberately set out, along with their associated European "friends", to play silly buggers (while happily maximising their expenses claims - almost as bad as NI MLAs). To achieve things in the Parliament any one country's MEPs have to align themselves with other politicians - no single country has enough MEPs to push through its agenda. So, were it not for the fact that "Call Me Dave" withdrew them, Conservative MEPs would be in a bloc with Angela Merkel's CDU, but they're not, and so, have less influence.
  • McBobbin said:

    I'm voting in for purely selfish reasons. Im a European patent attorney, and soon a new court called the unified patent court opens its doors. I won't bore with the details, but part of this court will be based in London. Anyway, this court will deal with pan-eu patents, and later all patents granted through the European system. If the UK leaves the EU, there will be little incentive for non European companies to use UK based patent attorneys, and we will lose out time. If we leave the EU, there will be big consequences.

    Your vote should be based on what's right for you great reason for staying in
    I also think it's better for the country as a whole to stay in... But the pros and cons on both sides are greatly exaggerated I feel. I certainly don't think the EU is efficient or the greatest thing ever, and I don't think that those voting out are all racist little Englanders... But I still think it's better to be in than out.
  • Ask yourself this: If we were outside the EU, would you want the UK to join the only declining trade bloc in the world?

    Vote OUT and let the UK regain its influence in the world.

    For me, yes.

    If you want to have free access to the EU market, the only other option is the EEA, where you'd have to pay almost as much in, with no say in the rule-making, for rules you have to accept.

    As for regaining the influence, which period of history's influence do you want to regain?

    I like history, but what the UK, and any other country, needs to do is to be confident in itself, in or out of the EU, and engage properly with its partners, whoever they are. But the UK's influence in the future cannot be what it was in the past (membership of the UN Security Council is largely an anachronism).
  • Ask yourself this: If we were outside the EU, would you want the UK to join the only declining trade bloc in the world?

    Vote OUT and let the UK regain its influence in the world.

    We are too small, and possibly will be even smaller if the Jocks push off in 15 or 20 years. Colonies have gone Nick. As a nation we are held in quite high regard for our size, but that is slowly being lost in a sea of greed at one end, and chavviness at the other. If we left the EU, for many countries that would portray us in an even worse light, not better.

    But as NLA says, you have to vote for what is right for you.
  • If we opt out the Beurocrats in Brussels will ask all Belgian nationals who reside or own business in the UK to sell up and get back to Belgium with immediate effect.

    A no brainer.

    If only....
  • I'm still undecided and that there will be an actual vote soon has kind of crept up on me (too much else going on to look at the bigger picture).
    I'm afraid I don't believe either side, nor generally trust their motivations.
    For most of my adult life the EU has been an excuse on all sides of the political spectrum for poor decision-making by British leaders and bosses.
    I don't like the way that the stay in side pretends that all is rosy in the EU and goes along with stuff like the TTIP (which will allow the likes of Richard Branson or US health care companies to sue the UK if they don't privatise the NHS). I don't like how the unions are generally pro-EU because they are too weak to fight for workers rights and it is only the more civilised approach of Europe that holds back British bosses.
    And I'm really not convinced by the Brexit people who imagine we can just waltz into a new arrangement with the EU without effectively being part of EFTA (i.e. pay the same, accept the directives, but with no say at all).
    So, some sort of place with unbiased (or at least honest about its biases) would be good to share if anyone knows one. Or they even exist.

    On a personal level, I work in IT for a housing association so not affected by work, though my manager is from the EU and I don't know whether it would affect him. He's a massive improvement on previous managers, so it would piss me off mightily to have him replaced. I've not got enough cash to go abroad much (twice in last decade) so am not affected in the way some of the folk on here are.
    My kids have issues with overcrowding and teacher shortages in schools, but TBH I see this more as a result of domestic politicians not planning for growth (particularly in London where the assumption until quite recently was that middle class people would move out as soon as their eldest was at secondary school age so there'd always be enough school places); or treating teachers so badly that they don't last very long. While this might be impacted by immigration, the underlying problem is entirely one of British political failings. I do not imagine that our political class will suddenly improve if we leave (or stay) in the EU.
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  • Ask yourself this: If we were outside the EU, would you want the UK to join the only declining trade bloc in the world?

    Vote OUT and let the UK regain its influence in the world.

    We are too small, and possibly will be even smaller if the Jocks push off in 15 or 20 years. Colonies have gone Nick. As a nation we are held in quite high regard for our size, but that is slowly being lost in a sea of greed at one end, and chavviness at the other. If we left the EU, for many countries that would portray us in an even worse light, not better.

    But as NLA says, you have to vote for what is right for you.
    Nonsense. Money talks and we're a very wealthy country. I think we'd be a very attractive proposition for trade, given we can negotiate all of our own trade deals.

    Also don't forget, outside of the EU, if there are laws created, you get to throw out the government who enforce them.
  • rananegra said:

    I'm still undecided and that there will be an actual vote soon has kind of crept up on me (too much else going on to look at the bigger picture).
    I'm afraid I don't believe either side, nor generally trust their motivations.
    For most of my adult life the EU has been an excuse on all sides of the political spectrum for poor decision-making by British leaders and bosses.
    I don't like the way that the stay in side pretends that all is rosy in the EU and goes along with stuff like the TTIP (which will allow the likes of Richard Branson or US health care companies to sue the UK if they don't privatise the NHS). I don't like how the unions are generally pro-EU because they are too weak to fight for workers rights and it is only the more civilised approach of Europe that holds back British bosses.
    And I'm really not convinced by the Brexit people who imagine we can just waltz into a new arrangement with the EU without effectively being part of EFTA (i.e. pay the same, accept the directives, but with no say at all).
    So, some sort of place with unbiased (or at least honest about its biases) would be good to share if anyone knows one. Or they even exist.

    On a personal level, I work in IT for a housing association so not affected by work, though my manager is from the EU and I don't know whether it would affect him. He's a massive improvement on previous managers, so it would piss me off mightily to have him replaced. I've not got enough cash to go abroad much (twice in last decade) so am not affected in the way some of the folk on here are.
    My kids have issues with overcrowding and teacher shortages in schools, but TBH I see this more as a result of domestic politicians not planning for growth (particularly in London where the assumption until quite recently was that middle class people would move out as soon as their eldest was at secondary school age so there'd always be enough school places); or treating teachers so badly that they don't last very long. While this might be impacted by immigration, the underlying problem is entirely one of British political failings. I do not imagine that our political class will suddenly improve if we leave (or stay) in the EU.

    Why would your boss be replaced? He's got a job and would just get a work permit - you know, like most countries
  • What exactly is 'free access to the European market'?

  • For what it's worth, I'm voting in.
    Even if it means Farage getting a lot of money from something he hates.
  • rananegra said:

    I'm still undecided and that there will be an actual vote soon has kind of crept up on me (too much else going on to look at the bigger picture).
    I'm afraid I don't believe either side, nor generally trust their motivations.
    For most of my adult life the EU has been an excuse on all sides of the political spectrum for poor decision-making by British leaders and bosses.
    I don't like the way that the stay in side pretends that all is rosy in the EU and goes along with stuff like the TTIP (which will allow the likes of Richard Branson or US health care companies to sue the UK if they don't privatise the NHS). I don't like how the unions are generally pro-EU because they are too weak to fight for workers rights and it is only the more civilised approach of Europe that holds back British bosses.
    And I'm really not convinced by the Brexit people who imagine we can just waltz into a new arrangement with the EU without effectively being part of EFTA (i.e. pay the same, accept the directives, but with no say at all).
    So, some sort of place with unbiased (or at least honest about its biases) would be good to share if anyone knows one. Or they even exist.

    On a personal level, I work in IT for a housing association so not affected by work, though my manager is from the EU and I don't know whether it would affect him. He's a massive improvement on previous managers, so it would piss me off mightily to have him replaced. I've not got enough cash to go abroad much (twice in last decade) so am not affected in the way some of the folk on here are.
    My kids have issues with overcrowding and teacher shortages in schools, but TBH I see this more as a result of domestic politicians not planning for growth (particularly in London where the assumption until quite recently was that middle class people would move out as soon as their eldest was at secondary school age so there'd always be enough school places); or treating teachers so badly that they don't last very long. While this might be impacted by immigration, the underlying problem is entirely one of British political failings. I do not imagine that our political class will suddenly improve if we leave (or stay) in the EU.

    I'm not sure you don't like the generally pro EU stance of the Trade Unions ? Their duty is to their members and I think in a general sense at least that EU legislation has been good for workers. Outside of the EU I can easily envisage many of the current laws protecting workers rights being repealed. I doubt this particular nuance on a Brexit will sway many one way or the other but workers in the UK already have some of the worst legal protections in the EU.

  • I'm out.

    The only argument that the in campaign use is that we will lose jobs etc. and financial issues. But all the European countries that are independent are still in the European trade bloc and are doing very well financially without being an EU member.
  • I'm out.

    The only argument that the in campaign use is that we will lose jobs etc. and financial issues. But all the European countries that are independent are still in the European trade bloc and are doing very well financially without being an EU member.

    But the services sector is a huge part of the UK economy. There is real reason to fear for the City should the UK leave.

    The underlying thought in my head is that all voters, pro and anti membership, should ponder the likelihood of unintended consequences, and work out how much of what they would not like that they'd be willing to accept should the result go their way...
  • edited February 2016

    I'm out.

    The only argument that the in campaign use is that we will lose jobs etc. and financial issues. But all the European countries that are independent are still in the European trade bloc and are doing very well financially without being an EU member.

    Which countries are you referring to exactly ? Do any of them really compare economically with the U.K. ?

    My fear is regarding the Dynamo of the British Ecconomy - The City of London. Doesn't it generate something like £8 out of every £10 the country makes ?

    Frankfurt is a financial centre also but at present compared to London it is small potatoes. I'm sure the Germans would love to see Frankfurt compete with London and could persuade their partners to do more business with Frankfurt and less with London. If this were to happen then I think every other argument surrounding a Brexit pales into insignificance.

  • Ask yourself this: If we were outside the EU, would you want the UK to join the only declining trade bloc in the world?

    Vote OUT and let the UK regain its influence in the world.

    We are too small, and possibly will be even smaller if the Jocks push off in 15 or 20 years. Colonies have gone Nick. As a nation we are held in quite high regard for our size, but that is slowly being lost in a sea of greed at one end, and chavviness at the other. If we left the EU, for many countries that would portray us in an even worse light, not better.

    But as NLA says, you have to vote for what is right for you.
    Nonsense. Money talks and we're a very wealthy country. I think we'd be a very attractive proposition for trade, given we can negotiate all of our own trade deals.

    Also don't forget, outside of the EU, if there are laws created, you get to throw out the government who enforce them.
    Not nonsense at all Nick. But it's not head-in-the-sand people like you I have to persuade. :wink:
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Roland Out!