[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]very suprised that some of the things Jordan said immediately after the press conference haven't been used to discredit him. sure i remember him saying on SSN the next time he saw dowie he wanted him to be in a body bag, or something along those lines.
He said the next time he'd speak to Dowie would be via Doris Stokes.
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]agreed. In summary:
Dowie wanted out
Jordan wanted Dowie out but didn't want to pay him off
Compromise agreement agreed which suits both parties perfectly
Dowie gets the Charlton job
Jordan goes nuts because he thinks Murray has got one up on him
pathetic for all concerned.
I agree but having read so far what has come out, I would add this.
If Jordan wanted Dowie out but believed or secretly knew he intended to try for the Charlton job, then maybe he concocted this whole thing as a trap for Dowie and Charlton.
1. Dowie wanted to go to Charlton. and Charlton were very interested in him.
2. Jordan wanted Dowie to go but didn't want to pay him off or allow him to go to Charlton.
3. Dowie knew this so he denies to Jordan that he wants to go there.
4, Jordan seeks advice from his lawyers who tell him that he can get what he wants by:
a) signing a compromise agreement which saves Palace lots of money but allows Dowie to think he's not stopped from joining Charlton.
b) suing Dowie &/or Charlton to get his million as well by claiming fraudulent misrep. A corollary to this would be the de-stablisation of Charltons premiership campaign.
i.e a win-win-win for Jordan
5. Compromise agreement is agreed which suits both parties and specifcally doesn't say he can't go to Charlton otherwise Dowie would never have accepted it.
6. Jordan then has press conference with Dowie where he puts in the public domain that Dowie left to go up north
7. Jordans suspicions/inside knowlege is confirmed and he launches attack on Dowie/Charlton to undermine them both
Dowie and Charlton.
8. Dowie perpetuates a myth which is that he had no contact with Charlton until he had left Palace.
9. Jordan cannot pin the "tapping up" charge on Charlton or show that they actively encouraged him into a deliberately fraudulent act, so he cannot join Charlton in an action.
10. Charlton sack Dowie which potentially puts paid to Charlton "paying the compensation"
11. The untruthfulness of Dowies post departure comments gives Jordan team the belief that they can win this.
12. Dowie relies upon his belief that he signed a compromise agreement which did not stop him joining Charlton and the contact timing issues, although unhelpful, do not damage his case. He goes ahead with the trial.
So is Jordan right to pursue this in this way?
Well you could argue that he has achieved already:
1. the getting rid of Dowie without paying compensation
2. the undermining of Charltons season and Dowie's role there
So far he has succeeded in showing that Dowie is capable of, at best, being an unreliable witness as to the facts.
It pains me to say this but he looks to me to be likely to win this.
Morning from Prague everyone. I just want to thank each and every contributor for this thread. You probably don't realise just how riveting this is, and what a great service its providing. Its like popping down to the pub and finding that a couple of your mates have been to the court and can give you the lowdown. Which is pretty cool when you are actually 800 miles away and the press aren't covering it.
i cannot see him being successful, but if Jordan does win this case against Dowie, is the fear that it will then lead on to Jordan launching a legal challenge against us (which he previously dropped) ?
Porkpie said there was a journo there from the Daily Mail (I think), who was taking notes etc during the whole day. So like AFKA said, surprised there haven't been more coverage on this...
So far I don't see anything that Charlton have done wrong. There is no evidence of tapping up. The phone call between Dowie and RM is no evidence whatsover, particularly if Dowie made the call. He's perfectly entitled to canvas for new employment at any time (from a Jordan vs CAFC viewpoint).
There are parallels here with executive search work, which I do. I am not supposed to approach people in a company for whom I find people. Its not actually contractual, but its bad business practice. But if people approach me thats OK because (like Dowie) they have a right at at any time to seek a different employer. So if I here someone in a company is disillusioned, I might ring them up on a different business pretext, and just ask them how's life. If they then indicate that it sless than perfect i tell them I can assist them but only on the basis that they have approached me. This looks like the Dowie- Murray dialogue, and that is not tapping up.
But maybe I missed something bad. I must admit, I've been reading the thread late in the evening with a fine glass of PU. I'll be interested to know ,if I haven't grasped it all fully.
The one thing that has really stood out in all this is just how pathetic Simon Jordan is, and how he is only really interested in himself.
I'm not bothered about Dowie. Yes he did a poor job for us, was found wanting, and appears to be somewhat distant with the truth.
But by pushing this case as far as he has and washing his club's laundry in public once again, what exactly does Jordan hope to achieve by this ?
If he goes on to lose the case, he would of cost his club, not himself, a great deal of money, hundreds of thousands minimum.
If he wins the case he will probably bankrupt the man who lifted his club when it was in the bottom 3 of the Championship into the Premier League, the only time he has ever experienced it as Chairman.
Utterly pathetic. If ever the saying 'you can't buy class' was wrote for anyone, it was him.
you have to remember that this is the man who took Ron Noades to court over whether a play off game was in effect a League game as opposed to a Cup game as the gate percentage payable to Noades was different for both. The amount at stake was around 50k. It was thrown out by the judge but the legal expenses totalled something like 300k. Sums Jordan up.
Mick McGuire was on the stand today. The media don't seem too interested in today's proceedings, but I think his evidence is key as he put the compromise agreement together. Can't find anything, anywhere, but I'll keep looking and as soon as I come across anything of interest, i'll post it up.
Hello from Australia as well. I've been trying to follow this case from the website of newspapers but there isn't a great deal. This is the best coverage I've seen. Thanks to all.
There was an interesting development in Court today. The representative from the players union who had acted as Dowie's agent has been arguing how upset he is about the implication that he and Dowie are together trying to distort the truth.
He claimed that Jordan's counsel is incorrect in drawing the conclusion that the annotation "RM" related to contact with Charlton Chairman Richard Murray. He claims that it referred to Richard Money (the Walsall Manager).
[cite]Posted By: AFKA Bartram[/cite]cribbed this from elsewhere:
There was an interesting development in Court today. The representative from the players union who had acted as Dowie's agent has been arguing how upset he is about the implication that he and Dowie are together trying to distort the truth.
He claimed that Jordan's counsel is incorrect in drawing the conclusion that the annotation "RM" related to contact with Charlton Chairman Richard Murray. He claims that it referred to Richard Money (the Walsall Manager).
sorry, but as all true charlton fans know, 'RM' stands for routemaster, the source of the best rolls of paper, lobbing onto the pitch, for the use of and without several rolls of which for the opposition keeper to gather in, no match was considered complete...tch, yoof today know nuffink...
[cite]Posted By: ltgtr[/citesorry, but as all true charlton fans know, 'RM' stands for routemaster, the source of the best rolls of paper, lobbing onto the pitch, for the use of and without several rolls of which for the opposition keeper to gather in, no match was considered complete...tch, yoof today know nuffink...
LOL!
but don't tell tango man. He'll only claim to have know it all along. In fact, he probably invented the paper roll, and the Routemaster too for that matter. FACT
of course, we could be over looking the bleeding obvious here...bloke lives away from his missus, has to fend for himself, sticks 'RM' in his diary/makes a phone call...he was organising a curry...i bet he's a vindaloo man...
The media seem to have lost interest in this case, now that Jordan & Dowie have given thier evidence. It has been the defense witnesses from what I can gather over the past couple of days, Mick McGuire from the FA yesterday and Andrew Mills today, Reg and RM are also due on the stand, so unless something "new" crops up in their evidence, then I suspect we'll find nothing reported on in detail. I'll keep looking and if there is anyyhing of significance, then I'll post it up, but at the minute, the only reporting doing the rounds are re-hashed from previous days events.
[cite]Posted By: No.1 in South London[/cite]The media seem to have lost interest in this case, now that Jordan & Dowie have given thier evidence. It has been the defense witnesses from what I can gather over the past couple of days, Mick McGuire from the FA yesterday and Andrew Mills today, Reg and RM are also due on the stand, so unless something "new" crops up in their evidence, then I suspect we'll find nothing reported on in detail. I'll keep looking and if there is anyyhing of significance, then I'll post it up, but at the minute, the only reporting doing the rounds are re-hashed from previous days events.
you might not be far off !! cribbed from elsewhere:
'They were questioning mr mills. Presumably he was general manager of charlton or something ? Not especially interesting, but I learned:
He advised varney and murray to hire dowie, despite earlier reservations that they shouldn't even interview him. If it were his club and money he would have hired sammy lee. They also interviewed hoddle.
He categorically denied dowie had interview on 23rd
First meeting with dowie was more fact finding and they hoped to learn dowie's view of cp players. However it took the same form as other interviews with mills taking notes. After this meeting dowie became serious candidate.
The court is bloody tiny. I was in back row, Sj was in row in front. ID was in row ahead of that (front row)
Sj's haircut looks silly and dowie is looking old.'
Comments
They will wait until the judges decisions when they get some juciy quotes out of the parties involved.
He said the next time he'd speak to Dowie would be via Doris Stokes.
'via a medium' was his words.
I agree but having read so far what has come out, I would add this.
If Jordan wanted Dowie out but believed or secretly knew he intended to try for the Charlton job, then maybe he concocted this whole thing as a trap for Dowie and Charlton.
1. Dowie wanted to go to Charlton. and Charlton were very interested in him.
2. Jordan wanted Dowie to go but didn't want to pay him off or allow him to go to Charlton.
3. Dowie knew this so he denies to Jordan that he wants to go there.
4, Jordan seeks advice from his lawyers who tell him that he can get what he wants by:
a) signing a compromise agreement which saves Palace lots of money but allows Dowie to think he's not stopped from joining Charlton.
b) suing Dowie &/or Charlton to get his million as well by claiming fraudulent misrep. A corollary to this would be the de-stablisation of Charltons premiership campaign.
i.e a win-win-win for Jordan
5. Compromise agreement is agreed which suits both parties and specifcally doesn't say he can't go to Charlton otherwise Dowie would never have accepted it.
6. Jordan then has press conference with Dowie where he puts in the public domain that Dowie left to go up north
7. Jordans suspicions/inside knowlege is confirmed and he launches attack on Dowie/Charlton to undermine them both
Dowie and Charlton.
8. Dowie perpetuates a myth which is that he had no contact with Charlton until he had left Palace.
9. Jordan cannot pin the "tapping up" charge on Charlton or show that they actively encouraged him into a deliberately fraudulent act, so he cannot join Charlton in an action.
10. Charlton sack Dowie which potentially puts paid to Charlton "paying the compensation"
11. The untruthfulness of Dowies post departure comments gives Jordan team the belief that they can win this.
12. Dowie relies upon his belief that he signed a compromise agreement which did not stop him joining Charlton and the contact timing issues, although unhelpful, do not damage his case. He goes ahead with the trial.
So is Jordan right to pursue this in this way?
Well you could argue that he has achieved already:
1. the getting rid of Dowie without paying compensation
2. the undermining of Charltons season and Dowie's role there
So far he has succeeded in showing that Dowie is capable of, at best, being an unreliable witness as to the facts.
It pains me to say this but he looks to me to be likely to win this.
Keep it coming!
RM: Stop lying Simon
SJ: Shut up Richard
RM: *under his breath* wan**r
SJ: What?
RM: Nothing
So far I don't see anything that Charlton have done wrong. There is no evidence of tapping up. The phone call between Dowie and RM is no evidence whatsover, particularly if Dowie made the call. He's perfectly entitled to canvas for new employment at any time (from a Jordan vs CAFC viewpoint).
There are parallels here with executive search work, which I do. I am not supposed to approach people in a company for whom I find people. Its not actually contractual, but its bad business practice. But if people approach me thats OK because (like Dowie) they have a right at at any time to seek a different employer. So if I here someone in a company is disillusioned, I might ring them up on a different business pretext, and just ask them how's life. If they then indicate that it sless than perfect i tell them I can assist them but only on the basis that they have approached me. This looks like the Dowie- Murray dialogue, and that is not tapping up.
But maybe I missed something bad. I must admit, I've been reading the thread late in the evening with a fine glass of PU. I'll be interested to know ,if I haven't grasped it all fully.
I'm not bothered about Dowie. Yes he did a poor job for us, was found wanting, and appears to be somewhat distant with the truth.
But by pushing this case as far as he has and washing his club's laundry in public once again, what exactly does Jordan hope to achieve by this ?
If he goes on to lose the case, he would of cost his club, not himself, a great deal of money, hundreds of thousands minimum.
If he wins the case he will probably bankrupt the man who lifted his club when it was in the bottom 3 of the Championship into the Premier League, the only time he has ever experienced it as Chairman.
Utterly pathetic. If ever the saying 'you can't buy class' was wrote for anyone, it was him.
Can't find anything, anywhere, but I'll keep looking and as soon as I come across anything of interest, i'll post it up.
Why the almost complete lack of covergae today? I feel deprived!
I too am enjoying the coverage. Great job No. 1 and all the embedded reporters.
It feels like Eurovision on here !
Lets hope its not the only time Jordan experiences 'nil point' this season where we are concerned.....
There was an interesting development in Court today. The representative from the players union who had acted as Dowie's agent has been arguing how upset he is about the implication that he and Dowie are together trying to distort the truth.
He claimed that Jordan's counsel is incorrect in drawing the conclusion that the annotation "RM" related to contact with Charlton Chairman Richard Murray. He claims that it referred to Richard Money (the Walsall Manager).
sorry, but as all true charlton fans know, 'RM' stands for routemaster, the source of the best rolls of paper, lobbing onto the pitch, for the use of and without several rolls of which for the opposition keeper to gather in, no match was considered complete...tch, yoof today know nuffink...
LOL!
but don't tell tango man. He'll only claim to have know it all along. In fact, he probably invented the paper roll, and the Routemaster too for that matter. FACT
http://www.45-rpm.org.uk/dirr/rubym.htm
ewe watt guv?
'They were questioning mr mills. Presumably he was general manager of charlton or something ? Not especially interesting, but I learned:
He advised varney and murray to hire dowie, despite earlier reservations that they shouldn't even interview him. If it were his club and money he would have hired sammy lee. They also interviewed hoddle.
He categorically denied dowie had interview on 23rd
First meeting with dowie was more fact finding and they hoped to learn dowie's view of cp players. However it took the same form as other interviews with mills taking notes. After this meeting dowie became serious candidate.
The court is bloody tiny. I was in back row, Sj was in row in front. ID was in row ahead of that (front row)
Sj's haircut looks silly and dowie is looking old.'
Hold on...