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For god sake GET OFF Jacko's back

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  • Jackson as a captain, is great. He is Charlton through and through, but, we do carry him in a lot of games unfortunately. Objectively, he is massively punching above his weight, getting Championship football week in, week out. It's a tough call, do you drop him and replace him with another midfielder, which actually makes us look like we have 11 men on the pitch, or do you stick with him, because of what he offers as a skipper to the team. IMO, we stick with him in our current battle against relagation, where his strong character can make up for his obvious footballing deficiencies. This may seem very harsh, I like Jacko just as much as the next Charlton fan, but we do need to wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to Jacko.
  • past two games he has been well off the pace and basically a passenger.
  • jamescafc said:

    I like Jackson as much as most and we need a leader on the pitch, which he is.

    But there's no doubt, that in The Championship, he has been struggling to keep up with the play.

    At his energetic best, he just about manages it. At his lethargic worse, like yesterday, he's chasing shadows.

    He did so many rugby style tackles yesterday, grappling people, pulling them back. He gave away a penalty, which thankfully wasn't given. Jackson & Cousins very rarely works in midfield and has been a problem for a long time.

    I'd like to know why Poyet isan't figuring.

    I am guessing for the same reason why Fanni and Sanogo weren't on the bench - not fit enough. It's the same with Johnson, we are bringing players in who aren't not ready for the battle we face. It's the same with the likes of Lookman, Makienok, Sarr etc. Our recruitment has been extraordinarily naive in terms of how hard this league is, both mentally and physically. This window has showed yet again that we haven't learnt from previous mistakes.
    Exactly this...the owners consistently underestimate the attributes required to compete, and survive in the championship. Season one can be forgiven as naive, now it's a stubborn refusal to acknowledge that their recruitment methods fall well short of the standard.
  • HowzeeD said:

    jamescafc said:

    I like Jackson as much as most and we need a leader on the pitch, which he is.

    But there's no doubt, that in The Championship, he has been struggling to keep up with the play.

    At his energetic best, he just about manages it. At his lethargic worse, like yesterday, he's chasing shadows.

    He did so many rugby style tackles yesterday, grappling people, pulling them back. He gave away a penalty, which thankfully wasn't given. Jackson & Cousins very rarely works in midfield and has been a problem for a long time.

    I'd like to know why Poyet isan't figuring.

    I am guessing for the same reason why Fanni and Sanogo weren't on the bench - not fit enough. It's the same with Johnson, we are bringing players in who aren't not ready for the battle we face. It's the same with the likes of Lookman, Makienok, Sarr etc. Our recruitment has been extraordinarily naive in terms of how hard this league is, both mentally and physically. This window has showed yet again that we haven't learnt from previous mistakes.
    Exactly this...the owners consistently underestimate the attributes required to compete, and survive in the championship. Season one can be forgiven as naive, now it's a stubborn refusal to acknowledge that their recruitment methods fall well short of the standard.
    The most annoying thing is that they profess to have learnt their lesson but it is not demonstrated in their actions.
  • Let's be realistic for a moment, Jackson is getting on a bit, Poyet can't step up to replace him, cousins though fitter and faster just hasn't got the quality and I don't think Ba etc waiting on the bench are good enough.
  • Of course JJ has a fantastic reserve of deserved good will, as does Derek Hales but he isn't playing, the fact is at this level if you are expecting 90 minutes from a midfielder then JJ is a busted flush and it's true he leaves Cousins exposed all the time. Also agree that this has been obvious for most of the season but nothing has been done to address it. Like others I am struggling to understand why Poyet isn't even getting off the bench, has he really gone that far backwards that he can't get a place in this shower of shit?
  • past two games he has been well off the pace and basically a passenger.

    Do you mean last 2 home games? He was very good at Rotherham.
  • edited February 2016
    Ben18 said:

    past two games he has been well off the pace and basically a passenger.

    Do you mean last 2 home games? He was very good at Rotherham.
    First half he was ok. From about 40 mins on he was knackered which may be more a problem than just ability. He rarely gives the ball away but his lack of movement is just too much of a strain on the other CM (none of whom are good enough to make up the ground on their own).
  • What seems crazy is that we dont start with a 5 man midfield. We need the stability and the protection it gives and dont have the 'front 2' to make it worth playing 442. At this stage we're defending more than we attack and need to hold on to the ball more.

    Jacko would be great in a middle 3 with someone holding and another doing the running. He can play a more attacking role and get in the box on the end of things, like we know he can.

    Hopefully Riga will sort his tactics out.
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  • Addicted said:

    What seems crazy is that we dont start with a 5 man midfield. We need the stability and the protection it gives and dont have the 'front 2' to make it worth playing 442. At this stage we're defending more than we attack and need to hold on to the ball more.

    Jacko would be great in a middle 3 with someone holding and another doing the running. He can play a more attacking role and get in the box on the end of things, like we know he can.

    Hopefully Riga will sort his tactics out.

    This is the role he played in the 1-0 at Norwich last season. Buyens sat while Cousins worked. Surprised they've not tried something similar with Poyet as part of the 3.
  • Ben18 said:

    past two games he has been well off the pace and basically a passenger.

    Do you mean last 2 home games? He was very good at Rotherham.

    Sorry yes he was shit against Blackburn and shit Saturday
  • colin1961 said:

    Because there home games when we have to make the running

    Has anyone told our players/various head coaches this?
  • Hes the last one I would be picking out for that display on Saturday; Jacko, Solly and Tex were the only ones who looked competent.

    Im a big Makienok fan but he was awful, partly as we seemed to revert to long ball tactics and despite his size he's really not suited to it.

    I'd worry about Lookmans confidence after that display too. JBG was back to underperforming after an impressive day out against Rotherham. Whilst Bergdich looked OK but had to cover Fox behind him who was woeful.

    Simply put we were outplayed in the midfield. Bristol had the numbers and seemingly the energy too, we didnt know what to do so decided to just boot it at every opportunity - without having anyone there to keep posession and allow us to attack.

    The fact our first chance, as far as I can remember, came at 50 minutes speaks volumes. The whole team was poor, played as individuals and lacked a proper game plan.

    For what its worth I thought it was a usual Jacko display - he's lacking the speed now but he still gave it his all and put in a solid performance - if the players around him had done the same then we'd be having a different discussion: but they didnt.

    Against Cardiff I want to see THD for Fox, Makienok and Igor together and Poyet in front of the back 4 - even if that does mean Jacko sits this one out.
  • Ben18 said:

    Addicted said:

    What seems crazy is that we dont start with a 5 man midfield. We need the stability and the protection it gives and dont have the 'front 2' to make it worth playing 442. At this stage we're defending more than we attack and need to hold on to the ball more.

    Jacko would be great in a middle 3 with someone holding and another doing the running. He can play a more attacking role and get in the box on the end of things, like we know he can.

    Hopefully Riga will sort his tactics out.

    This is the role he played in the 1-0 at Norwich last season. Buyens sat while Cousins worked. Surprised they've not tried something similar with Poyet as part of the 3.
    They did at Hull...
  • We shouldn't boo anybody - he is a legend, but the fact is playing him in a 2 is asking too much of him. Should we not say it?
  • LuckyReds said:

    Hes the last one I would be picking out for that display on Saturday; Jacko, Solly and Tex were the only ones who looked competent.

    Im a big Makienok fan but he was awful, partly as we seemed to revert to long ball tactics and despite his size he's really not suited to it.

    I'd worry about Lookmans confidence after that display too. JBG was back to underperforming after an impressive day out against Rotherham. Whilst Bergdich looked OK but had to cover Fox behind him who was woeful.

    Simply put we were outplayed in the midfield. Bristol had the numbers and seemingly the energy too, we didnt know what to do so decided to just boot it at every opportunity - without having anyone there to keep posession and allow us to attack.

    The fact our first chance, as far as I can remember, came at 50 minutes speaks volumes. The whole team was poor, played as individuals and lacked a proper game plan.

    For what its worth I thought it was a usual Jacko display - he's lacking the speed now but he still gave it his all and put in a solid performance - if the players around him had done the same then we'd be having a different discussion: but they didnt.

    Against Cardiff I want to see THD for Fox, Makienok and Igor together and Poyet in front of the back 4 - even if that does mean Jacko sits this one out.

    Solly looked OK, and Ba looked alright when he came on. But come on, for all the brilliance and influence he has had over the years - taking the blinkers off he was a passenger on Saturday.
  • colin1961 said:

    Because there home games when we have to make the running , and our mid two just not good enough to create away It's diff we sit deeper and hit teams on the break

    Best sentence ever. Very easy to read Col :wink:
  • Cousins gives you the work-rate and can provide a little creativity if he is not over-worked. Unfortunately, he invariably is when playing only with JJ. I’m not sure why the club is incapable of seeing this. JJ should not be criticised, he is a leader and a hero, but you can see him giving 100%, but struggling to do so and missing tackles and just generally being a yard off the pace. He should be on the bench as an option to bring on with 20 to go. He shouldn’t be starting alongside Cousins!
  • We shouldn't boo anybody - he is a legend, but the fact is playing him in a 2 is asking too much of him. Should we not say it?

    Sure, and then say what the solution is. That is the difficult bit.

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  • edited February 2016
    The solution is to play Ba or Poyet and sub him with JJ with 20 to go if required. Not a great solution, but the only one we currently have. Which is one of the main reasons we are protesting!
  • edited February 2016
    Dazzler21 said:

    Let's be realistic for a moment, Jackson is getting on a bit, Poyet can't step up to replace him

    Poyet was our MOM virtually every single game he played 2 seasons ago and was the main reason (player) we escaped relegation. I think Poyet is more than capable. MK Dons fans were happy with Poyet.
  • edited February 2016
    I can't recall but I'm thinking he didn't play in the 5-0 lose at Huddersfield. Or the Hull 6-0 thrashing that we received, so if he didn't play in those and Riga has bought him back in the side we have won 4-1 at Rotherham and narrowly lost to Bristol City, we have infact tightened up in midfield in that case with Jacko playing!!.
  • uie2 said:

    I can't recall but I'm thinking he didn't play in the 5-0 lose at Huddersfield. Or the Hull 6-0 thrashing that we received, so if he didn't play in those and Riga has bought him back in the side we have won 4-1 at Rotherham and narrowly lost to Bristol City, we have infact tightened up in midfield in that case with Jacko playing!!.

    He played the full game in both those hammerings!
  • uie2 said:

    I can't recall but I'm thinking he didn't play in the 5-0 lose at Huddersfield. Or the Hull 6-0 thrashing that we received, so if he didn't play in those and Riga has bought him back in the side we have won 4-1 at Rotherham and narrowly lost to Bristol City, we have infact tightened up in midfield in that case with Jacko playing!!.

    He played the full game in both those hammerings!
    Oh ok thanks, I must have blanked it out my mind! ;)
  • Dazzler21 said:

    Let's be realistic for a moment, Jackson is getting on a bit, Poyet can't step up to replace him

    Poyet was our MOM virtually every single game he played 2 seasons ago and was the main reason (player) we escaped relegation. I think Poyet is more than capable. MK Dons fans were happy with Poyet.
    It's odd. Harriott was also a major player for Riga the last time, yet he's now preferring Bergdich. I can only guess that he is either holding them back to make them hungry or he is not convinced with their fitness or attitude. Having said that,I thought that Poyet was very poor at Colchester along with the whole team.
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