@MickCollins keep posting. I just hope that I avoid slitting my wrists.
This is all so depressing. I find myself caught between a rock and a hard place. I am sure I am not alone in wanting Riga to succeed and organise us enough to keep us up. Unfortunately that will likely prolong the RD ownership nightmare.
I will protest but I want that process not to harm the teams chances.
Frankly I doubt that Riga has enough to work with to make it happen. I am mindful of the old adage "you can polish a turd but in the end it's still a turd"........
The one ray of hope is that he did eventually sell Standard Liege, though perhaps the reasoning behind this was that he now effectively had two Belgian clubs in the same league and he chose to keep the less troublesome one.
Please buy another British club for your experiment Roly. I'm sure there must be a couple of League 2 clubs looking for investment. Then you can sell us to someone that actually wants to run a football club normally.
I've only lurked back to see how things are going, but I'm going to have a go at guessing this.
Jose Riga's come back to work for an owner who failed to re-hire him in fairly humiliating circumstances, after he'd achieved exactly what the bloke had asked him to achieve, the first time he had the job.
He then went to work for Blackpool, arguably the holder of the 'Basket case of all footballing basket cases' trophy, until Charlton snatched the title in a depressing season-long play-off. Having been dispensed with, after one win in 15 games, by a chairman famed for not caring how badly he upset his own supporters (anyone seeing a pattern emerging here?), he went to Standard Liege, thus keeping himself firmly in the recent orbit of the bloke who got rid of him at Charlton. His masochistic employment record continued for a further 15 matches, before he strolled off over the horizon, his previous season's worth (46 games) of matches involving three, separate clubs.
He then crash landed into the dugout at Metz, lasted 23 games, before departing before the Christmas decorations came down. Devoid of employment, he then fell back into a relationship with Charlton, with the faux enthusiasm of a reality-show contestant on a ratings drive, despite the fact they'd been actively wooing someone else, just hours earlier.
He offered a little speech about his love for the club, his fifth such proclamation of admiration for a new employer in 18 months, probably delivered from a very creased postcard, given the frequency with which he makes them. He went off, had a meeting with the people who had masterminded the ongoing car crash which is Charlton Athletic in 2016, and declared himself up for the challenge. Six unanswered and virtually uncontested goals later, we can assume he now fully understands quite how we came to wrestle Blackpool's crown from them.
He's not a rebel, I would suggest, but a football manager who found himself without a job, and without a shred of hesitation when it came to returning to a working relationship with a man who has sent him packing on a regular basis for much of his career.He will stand there, take the money, and then watch as others run. Like headless chickens, mostly.
His major talent appears to be not taking personally, habitual and regular rejection from his employer. He's a rebel without a pause. If Charlton is like a shipwreck, sliding gently below the water, Jose Riga is merely the bloke currently wearing the captain's hat, not waving, but drowning. When he falls in (as he will) someone else will put it on.
The ship, I fear, will continue to sink. All very sad.
This, this & this. Riga is the amiable, acceptable face of the regime.
I agree with a lot of your thoughtful analysis on RD the man and his motivations (although there is a lot more we can and should learn.
However as for your sentiments...Man up, Mick ! :-) Get out your own book and read the first part of it again.
You are right that it will be difficult to maintain the level of coverage in the British press week after week, although the plans in place by the brilliant squad of people pulled together by this equally brilliant website has put plenty of ammunition in its locker.
You are in my opinion dead wrong when you say the ripples won't reach Belgium. On the contrary they already have. Furthermore you may not have factored any of: RD's big box-office status in Belgium, the simmering resentment that still exists within Standard about the mess he left behind, or the streak of vanity which seems to run through him. He wants to be seen to do something which positively affects the community as opposed to just making money. Hence his foray into politics. It was a disaster, and since Charlton is easily the biggest of his remaining football investments, he faces disaster in football too. We have to get to him and show him rationally that his best bet is to step back gracefully and leave it to people who know what they are doing. In this respect the other puzzle about your suicidal analysis is that you did not refer to the "Varney factor" at all. That changes the dynamic significantly. He sold Standard in part because there was a ready buyer who enjoyed the confidence of the fans.
When i read your book (the Rise and Rise) I had the uneasy feeling that it painted a slightly complacent picture - a feeling which unfortunately turned out to be on the money. Don't get me wrong - we were all complacent. We should have formed a Supporters Trust the moment the movement got off the ground, not ten years later. We should not have surrendered the Supporter Director position with barely a murmur. But that's all in the past and we are where we are.
We are going to go out and get our Charlton back and this time we must never let it go again.
I agree with a lot of your thoughtful analysis on RD the man and his motivations (although there is a lot more we can and should learn.
However as for your sentiments...Man up, Mick ! :-) Get out your own book and read the first part of it again.
You are right that it will be difficult to maintain the level of coverage in the British press week after week, although the plans in place by the brilliant squad of people pulled together by this equally brilliant website has put plenty of ammunition in its locker.
You are in my opinion dead wrong when you say the ripples won't reach Belgium. On the contrary they already have. Furthermore you may not have factored any of: RD's big box-office status in Belgium, the simmering resentment that still exists within Standard about the mess he left behind, or the streak of vanity which seems to run through him. He wants to be seen to do something which positively affects the community as opposed to just making money. Hence his foray into politics. It was a disaster, and since Charlton is easily the biggest of his remaining football investments, he faces disaster in football too. We have to get to him and show him rationally that his best bet is to step back gracefully and leave it to people who know what they are doing. In this respect the other puzzle about your suicidal analysis is that you did not refer to the "Varney factor" at all. That changes the dynamic significantly. He sold Standard in part because there was a ready buyer who enjoyed the confidence of the fans.
When i read your book (the Rise and Rise) I had the uneasy feeling that it painted a slightly complacent picture - a feeling which unfortunately turned out to be on the money. Don't get me wrong - we were all complacent. We should have formed a Supporters Trust the moment the movement got off the ground, not ten years later. We should not have surrendered the Supporter Director position with barely a murmur. But that's all in the past and we are where we are.
We are going to go out and get our Charlton back and this time we must never let it go again.
I'm going to step back from this, because it's an ongoing discussion, I'm not going to assist it in the terms you might like, and I simply wish people well.
To do you the courtesy of a response to the points you raise, though, I'd say simply this -
1) My book was written by someone who was a lot younger, and it was simply a snapshot of a moment in time - a nice moment, ten years on from coming back to The Valley. But it was essentially feel-good nonsense - a collection of things people wanted to hear, said by people they wanted to like. It's like 99% of football books - agreeable rubbish, served up to a specific audience. It's not a manifesto, a blueprint, or even, really, a 'proper' book. I've not opened it for at least 7 or 8 years, and I don't know that I've even got a copy any more! Life moves on!
2) You may say "ripples have reached Belgium" and you may be right, but my point remains that they won't change anything. You're talking about a theory - publicity will make him alter his course. I'm talking about reality - when a potential bid came in, which would have allowed him to alter course and walk away, he didn't even take the meeting. Which leads me onto...
3) I didn't refer to the 'Varney factor' because there isn't one. RD didn't want to speak to him about investment, and that's his right. He can't be forced to, and if the investment actually exists, it'll go elsewhere very soon. That's the reason I don't think RD will walk away - when offered the chance, with money returned to him and no real loss, he declined. The rejection of any offer from PV tells you a lot about how involved RD wishes to remain. It's also a bit awkward for PV, I'd imagine. If he has got backers worth £2.5bn, or whatever the figure was, they'll expect results. He's told them about the football club he ran for a decade, they've expressed an interest, and he's been unable even to get a meeting. That's a bit uncomfortable if you're a middle man, even if you're a good one, as PV clearly is.
If RD goes, it'll be because he wants to. There's no legal route to get rid of him (If Thaksin Shinawatra was a fit and proper person while being accused of human rights violations by Amnesty International, RD probably passes the test!), and if he doesn't want investors, no business route. There's nothing you can do to forcibly remove a private business from someone, just because they're not running it very well, even if it is a football club. And even if there was, the presence on the board of an apologist relic from the old ownership probably spikes your guns on that one.
It's not about 'manning up' or refusing to surrender, it's about looking at the bigger picture. This was always going to happen to a football club somewhere. All the component parts were there, from historic financial mismanagement to foreign, absentee ownership to puppet executives to hints of third party player ownership. And, inevitably, some would say, given our luck, we landed the lot, all in one go, along with a side order of 'mad football ownership experimentation'. Like I say, Charlton have become RD's lab rat. And lab rats rarely come out of these things very well.
In years to come, I'd like to see the concept of assets of community value being extended to organisations, not just premises. I'm not sure that can happen at the moment, can it? I'd like to see not just The Valley protected, but the organisation that resides within it. As it stands, you can kill the club but save the ground, just as you can save the youth club but sack the staff, or retain the pub building but without a viable business to fill it full of regulars. I think that's wrong (if I've understood it correctly?), and I think it needs to be changed. But big changes require big impetus, and I've got a horrible, lurking feeling that we might provide that.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Desperate, I think what you've said is plausible.
However, when defending Fraeye previously, you claimed it was on the basis of one conversation at somewhere like a football club (not Charlton).
So how are you now so knowlegeable ?
Genuine question, because I'd like you to somehow substantiate, what you've said please.
Since you have asked me politely and not sneered at me like some other 'fans' I will. For a start the conversation that I had with Karel was over 2 hours long. Since that time we have kept in touch and he appreciated that I was a fan and someone that understood what an enormous job that he had on his hands. There is so much rubbish being spouted on this forum that I have felt compelled to refute (defend as you put it) but I realise that I am swimming against the tide. This is supposed to be a forum of mostly opinions yet some posters offer their opinions as facts which annoys me and I question their motives. Anyway Karel phoned me on Monday and told me some of what went on that last weekend. I have mentioned just a couple of things that I feel are not harmful to his present position however as his reputation has been harmed and a future employer will want to know that he would not bad mouth him/her at a later date I will not say more - which is frustrating.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Desperate, I think what you've said is plausible.
However, when defending Fraeye previously, you claimed it was on the basis of one conversation at somewhere like a football club (not Charlton).
So how are you now so knowlegeable ?
Genuine question, because I'd like you to somehow substantiate, what you've said please.
Since you have asked me politely and not sneered at me like some other 'fans' I will. For a start the conversation that I had with Karel was over 2 hours long. Since that time we have kept in touch and he appreciated that I was a fan and someone that understood what an enormous job that he had on his hands. There is so much rubbish being spouted on this forum that I have felt compelled to refute (defend as you put it) but I realise that I am swimming against the tide. This is supposed to be a forum of mostly opinions yet some posters offer their opinions as facts which annoys me and I question their motives. Anyway Karel phoned me on Monday and told me some of what went on that last weekend. I have mentioned just a couple of things that I feel are not harmful to his present position however as his reputation has been harmed and a future employer will want to know that he would not bad mouth him/her at a later date I will not say more - which is frustrating.
Well the one thing you cannot refute is that he is one of the worst managers the club have ever had (his record will always remind us of that). Hardly surprising considering his credentials would have been lucky to land him a job with someone like Barnet. Whilst I have some sympathy because he should never have been given the job in the first place, some of his comments were just ridiculous and showed him to be the Duchatelet stooge we all knew he was. From the very beginning he set the tone. We could all see that he didn't have the player quality or the depth in squad to be able to compete, yet he insisted there wasn't a problem. Contrast that with Riga who's first interview made it clear that we need more players, and he started with four more players than Fraeye started with.
Maybe it was naivety, or maybe he is just blindly loyal to his employer, but either way, if you aren't honest with yourself, how do you expect thousands of fans to buy into what you are trying to do and give you the support you need to get on with it? In my opinion he had too many digs at the fans and never took responsibility for the terrible losses we suffered on the pitch, there was always some excuse. Clearly he never had the full support of the players either, because he rarely encouraged a performance out of even our best players. He was a bad fit for the club in so many ways, I would've had more respect for him if he'd thrown in the towel a couple of months back as it would have given us more of a fighting chance to get out of this mess.
Probably a nice enough guy personally, but he should never have been anywhere near a club at this level.
Mick paints a very bleak picture - shocking even for a pessimist/realist like me!
Yes, of course we have a tough job on our hands to get RD to change tack dramatically or leave altogether. My glimmer of hope is that he has publicly stated he wants out of football by the time he is 75 - just five to six years away. OK, who knows what state or what league we might be in by then, but he must start considering exit strategy within next three to four years, even if he won't countenance it now.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Desperate, I think what you've said is plausible.
However, when defending Fraeye previously, you claimed it was on the basis of one conversation at somewhere like a football club (not Charlton).
So how are you now so knowlegeable ?
Genuine question, because I'd like you to somehow substantiate, what you've said please.
Since you have asked me politely and not sneered at me like some other 'fans' I will. For a start the conversation that I had with Karel was over 2 hours long. Since that time we have kept in touch and he appreciated that I was a fan and someone that understood what an enormous job that he had on his hands. There is so much rubbish being spouted on this forum that I have felt compelled to refute (defend as you put it) but I realise that I am swimming against the tide. This is supposed to be a forum of mostly opinions yet some posters offer their opinions as facts which annoys me and I question their motives. Anyway Karel phoned me on Monday and told me some of what went on that last weekend. I have mentioned just a couple of things that I feel are not harmful to his present position however as his reputation has been harmed and a future employer will want to know that he would not bad mouth him/her at a later date I will not say more - which is frustrating.
So you're telling me that Karel met a Charlton fan at a football game, started talking for two hours, and then is now in phone contact with said fan.
You're either a stunning bird with huge tits, lying, or Karel was even worse at his job than I thought.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Desperate, I think what you've said is plausible.
However, when defending Fraeye previously, you claimed it was on the basis of one conversation at somewhere like a football club (not Charlton).
So how are you now so knowlegeable ?
Genuine question, because I'd like you to somehow substantiate, what you've said please.
Since you have asked me politely and not sneered at me like some other 'fans' I will. For a start the conversation that I had with Karel was over 2 hours long. Since that time we have kept in touch and he appreciated that I was a fan and someone that understood what an enormous job that he had on his hands. There is so much rubbish being spouted on this forum that I have felt compelled to refute (defend as you put it) but I realise that I am swimming against the tide. This is supposed to be a forum of mostly opinions yet some posters offer their opinions as facts which annoys me and I question their motives. Anyway Karel phoned me on Monday and told me some of what went on that last weekend. I have mentioned just a couple of things that I feel are not harmful to his present position however as his reputation has been harmed and a future employer will want to know that he would not bad mouth him/her at a later date I will not say more - which is frustrating.
Well the one thing you cannot refute is that he is one of the worst managers the club have ever had (his record will always remind us of that). Hardly surprising considering his credentials would have been lucky to land him a job with someone like Barnet. Whilst I have some sympathy because he should never have been given the job in the first place, some of his comments were just ridiculous and showed him to be the Duchatelet stooge we all knew he was. From the very beginning he set the tone. We could all see that he didn't have the player quality or the depth in squad to be able to compete, yet he insisted there wasn't a problem. Contrast that with Riga who's first interview made it clear that we need more players, and he started with four more players than Fraeye started with.
Maybe it was naivety, or maybe he is just blindly loyal to his employer, but either way, if you aren't honest with yourself, how do you expect thousands of fans to buy into what you are trying to do and give you the support you need to get on with it? In my opinion he had too many digs at the fans and never took responsibility for the terrible losses we suffered on the pitch, there was always some excuse. Clearly he never had the full support of the players either, because he rarely encouraged a performance out of even our best players. He was a bad fit for the club in so many ways, I would've had more respect for him if he'd thrown in the towel a couple of months back as it would have given us more of a fighting chance to get out of this mess.
Probably a nice enough guy personally, but he should never have been anywhere near a club at this level.
I disagree with much of what you have said and can you not really understand that Karel said many things that were to protect the fragile confidence of many of the players and he knew about the shortcomings of the squad but, again did not want to give the impression to the squad, that he had to manage until the next transfer window, that they were not good enough? Most managers will say stuff to protect their players particularly when they are not in a strong position to change them. Better to be positive than negative I believe! You also infer that he did not have the full support of the players. There is no evidence of that and JJ backed him publically. There were good performances but the constant changing of the side because of injuries and the lack of experience and fitness of the squad meant that nobody was consistent enough except perhaps Chris Solly.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Desperate, I think what you've said is plausible.
However, when defending Fraeye previously, you claimed it was on the basis of one conversation at somewhere like a football club (not Charlton).
So how are you now so knowlegeable ?
Genuine question, because I'd like you to somehow substantiate, what you've said please.
Since you have asked me politely and not sneered at me like some other 'fans' I will. For a start the conversation that I had with Karel was over 2 hours long. Since that time we have kept in touch and he appreciated that I was a fan and someone that understood what an enormous job that he had on his hands. There is so much rubbish being spouted on this forum that I have felt compelled to refute (defend as you put it) but I realise that I am swimming against the tide. This is supposed to be a forum of mostly opinions yet some posters offer their opinions as facts which annoys me and I question their motives. Anyway Karel phoned me on Monday and told me some of what went on that last weekend. I have mentioned just a couple of things that I feel are not harmful to his present position however as his reputation has been harmed and a future employer will want to know that he would not bad mouth him/her at a later date I will not say more - which is frustrating.
So you're telling me that Karel met a Charlton fan at a football game, started talking for two hours, and then is now in phone contact with said fan.
You're either a stunning bird with huge tits, lying, or Karel was even worse at his job than he thought.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Desperate, I think what you've said is plausible.
However, when defending Fraeye previously, you claimed it was on the basis of one conversation at somewhere like a football club (not Charlton).
So how are you now so knowlegeable ?
Genuine question, because I'd like you to somehow substantiate, what you've said please.
Since you have asked me politely and not sneered at me like some other 'fans' I will. For a start the conversation that I had with Karel was over 2 hours long. Since that time we have kept in touch and he appreciated that I was a fan and someone that understood what an enormous job that he had on his hands. There is so much rubbish being spouted on this forum that I have felt compelled to refute (defend as you put it) but I realise that I am swimming against the tide. This is supposed to be a forum of mostly opinions yet some posters offer their opinions as facts which annoys me and I question their motives. Anyway Karel phoned me on Monday and told me some of what went on that last weekend. I have mentioned just a couple of things that I feel are not harmful to his present position however as his reputation has been harmed and a future employer will want to know that he would not bad mouth him/her at a later date I will not say more - which is frustrating.
So you're telling me that Karel met a Charlton fan at a football game, started talking for two hours, and then is now in phone contact with said fan.
You're either a stunning bird with huge tits, lying, or Karel was even worse at his job than I thought.
P.S Did you sit next to him during the game then?
How old are you - 12?
Er, no. No I'm not.
I am however making a point that your continued backing up of a man who has contributed absolutely nothing but harm to this football club, despite his best intentions, is strange.
For you to say that you had a conversation with him and are now in phone contact, I find that baffling that's all.
I am sure Karel was fundamentally a nice guy who took a chance that was never likely to come his way again. That he failed was almost inevitable as he did not seem to be a good enough manager, let alone for a club in crisis. Was he one of our worst ever managers? Yes. Has this all but ruined his career in management? Probably, certainly in serious standard management. Was the farce at Huddersfield his fault? Not really, as he had been fired by then and decided enough was enough.
The performances in the final few matches hint that the players had lost all confidence in him. No proof, but actions speak louder than words.
Karel Fraeye was another fall guy in this charade. Just as surely as Jose Riga's second coming will end in tears. The players aren't good enough overall, and those with ability who are not too old must be pleading with their agents to get them out.
I believe @Desperate_Pete is just another @PL54 but with a different, more florid style.
The thing with Fraeye is quite simple. Football is no different to any other profession. It is all very well giving young people a chance but if you put them in something way beyond their experience and without you being available and willing to mentor them, they will crash and burn. That is the situation with both him and Meire.
Would he put a young bloke who has previously been a CEO of a tiny single unit electronics manufacture in Poland, in charge of his global micro-electronics business? Would he hell.
I believe @Desperate_Pete is just another @PL54 but with a different, more florid style.
The thing with Fraeye is quite simple. Football is no different to any other profession. It is all very well giving young people a chance but if you put them in something way beyond their experience and without you being available and willing to mentor them, they will crash and burn. That is the situation with both him and Meire.
Would he put a young bloke who has previously been a CEO of a tiny single unit electronics manufacture in Poland, in charge of his global micro-electronics business? Would he hell.
It's not rocket science...
Prague, you cannot believe how disappointed I am with you with this post. If you think that I am a wind up merchant for contributing some actual facts to this forum rather than random and erroneous opinions then you are very wrong. My intentions are only to add to the knowledge of the forum but if you or others want to dismiss me then fine. It is a little sad though if one is always questioned about ones motives and identity just because the information does not fit the common narrative. I would like to meet you and have a friendly chat about it if you don't mind. I am a Trust member and have been going to the Valley longer than most on this forum.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Desperate, I think what you've said is plausible.
However, when defending Fraeye previously, you claimed it was on the basis of one conversation at somewhere like a football club (not Charlton).
So how are you now so knowlegeable ?
Genuine question, because I'd like you to somehow substantiate, what you've said please.
Since you have asked me politely and not sneered at me like some other 'fans' I will. For a start the conversation that I had with Karel was over 2 hours long. Since that time we have kept in touch and he appreciated that I was a fan and someone that understood what an enormous job that he had on his hands. There is so much rubbish being spouted on this forum that I have felt compelled to refute (defend as you put it) but I realise that I am swimming against the tide. This is supposed to be a forum of mostly opinions yet some posters offer their opinions as facts which annoys me and I question their motives. Anyway Karel phoned me on Monday and told me some of what went on that last weekend. I have mentioned just a couple of things that I feel are not harmful to his present position however as his reputation has been harmed and a future employer will want to know that he would not bad mouth him/her at a later date I will not say more - which is frustrating.
So you're telling me that Karel met a Charlton fan at a football game, started talking for two hours, and then is now in phone contact with said fan.
You're either a stunning bird with huge tits, lying, or Karel was even worse at his job than I thought.
P.S Did you sit next to him during the game then?
How old are you - 12?
Er, no. No I'm not.
I am however making a point that your continued backing up of a man who has contributed absolutely nothing but harm to this football club, despite his best intentions, is strange.
For you to say that you had a conversation with him and are now in phone contact, I find that baffling that's all.
Lighten up.
P.S did you sit with him during the game then?
Sorry about the age thing - I haven't got big tits by the way but the endless stream of ridiculous posts about KF does get on my tits! Anyway with respect, I do not see why being friendly and in contact with someone that was connected to the club I love and with whom I respected is strange at all! For the record when I met him at the match in Bromley and we talked in the directors lounge after the game (I was a guest) and afterwards in the supporters bar. Incidentally I visited the training ground just before Christmas and I saw the players working hard and they appeared happy to me from what I could see......
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Well that's a revelation no-one seems to have picked up on. It doesn't surprise me, but that's a definite sign of someone lacking the heart to face the inevitable barrage she would receive.
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Well that's a revelation no-one seems to have picked up on. It doesn't surprise me, but that's a definite sign of someone lacking the heart to face the inevitable barrage she would receive.
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Well that's a revelation no-one seems to have picked up on. It doesn't surprise me, but that's a definite sign of someone lacking the heart to face the inevitable barrage she would receive.
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
If true, it also implies that RD 'aint sacking KM any time soon
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
He might have done. He might have been invited.
The problem with conversations like this is that they will inevitably be tainted with self-defence, and Fraeye was already blaming just about everyone else for the ills at the club when he was a part of the problem too.
It's good to hear his candid point of view, but we need to put it into context too. It's entirely possible that Riga advised RD against appointing Fraeye for last season for example.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Well that's a revelation no-one seems to have picked up on. It doesn't surprise me, but that's a definite sign of someone lacking the heart to face the inevitable barrage she would receive.
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
I've heard something similar re KM and RM, but Riga isn't what was happening Wednesday night either. I also think it shows that the shitstorm heading their way can influence outcomes.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Well that's a revelation no-one seems to have picked up on. It doesn't surprise me, but that's a definite sign of someone lacking the heart to face the inevitable barrage she would receive.
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
I've heard something similar re KM and RM, but Riga isn't what was happening Wednesday night either. I also think it shows that the shitstorm heading their way is capable can influence outcomes.
I had heard similar as well, and I thought Rick had put it on that blog he did last week.
As I mentioned on last week's podcast, I heard that even Karel advised KM not to go with Mr Ujpest
I believe @Desperate_Pete is just another @PL54 but with a different, more florid style.
The thing with Fraeye is quite simple. Football is no different to any other profession. It is all very well giving young people a chance but if you put them in something way beyond their experience and without you being available and willing to mentor them, they will crash and burn. That is the situation with both him and Meire.
Would he put a young bloke who has previously been a CEO of a tiny single unit electronics manufacture in Poland, in charge of his global micro-electronics business? Would he hell.
It's not rocket science...
Prague, you cannot believe how disappointed I am with you with this post. If you think that I am a wind up merchant for contributing some actual facts to this forum rather than random and erroneous opinions then you are very wrong. My intentions are only to add to the knowledge of the forum but if you or others want to dismiss me then fine. It is a little sad though if one is always questioned about ones motives and identity just because the information does not fit the common narrative. I would like to meet you and have a friendly chat about it if you don't mind. I am a Trust member and have been going to the Valley longer than most on this forum.
Hi Pete,
Maybe 10 years on CL has made me too cynical. I would be very happy to chat with you and where better than at the Trust stall on Saturday. I should be there from 14.00. And if it turns out that I owe you an apology, you will certainly get one.
The complete lack of any communication from the club (assume the 'liar' chants now include Murray as well as Meire) fuels the increasing rumour mill. I suspect the club are also feeding the local media and some more friendly fans with odds and ends as well, partly to confuse but also to try to undermine the protests. We should assume that silence means they are not stirring the pot behind the scenes.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Well that's a revelation no-one seems to have picked up on. It doesn't surprise me, but that's a definite sign of someone lacking the heart to face the inevitable barrage she would receive.
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
I've heard something similar re KM and RM, but Riga isn't what was happening Wednesday night either. I also think it shows that the shitstorm heading their way can influence outcomes.
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Well that's a revelation no-one seems to have picked up on. It doesn't surprise me, but that's a definite sign of someone lacking the heart to face the inevitable barrage she would receive.
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
I've heard something similar re KM and RM, but Riga isn't what was happening Wednesday night either. I also think it shows that the shitstorm heading their way can influence outcomes.
Curiouser & curiouser !
I REALLY wish you'd be less enigmatic, AB !
Not intentional. I simply heard that KM and RM realised that appointing Nobby Vinegar would bring the house down and declined to be buried in the rubble while RD sat in Belgium stroking his cat. KM then announced her "search" for the third time, externally and to the football staff, but the next morning RD imposed Riga, who wasn't seen by the others to be as big a problem.
Just imagine if we had lost 6-0 on Saturday under the Serb!
@MickCollins comment is persuasively argued as usual, and I am certainly not going to claim that Riga is the best person we could and should have hired at this point.
However Mick's narrative has glossed over one small but important aspect of what we understood to have happened since Fraeye was finally booted out. We understood, from Richard Cawley was it not, that Riga was first lined up before the Ujpest guy. Somebody, authoritative enough for Cawley to take seriously, briefed him on that. Then it did not happen and Riga put out a statement saying he had not heard anything.
I would like to know more about this episode. At the time people surmised that at first Riga had dug his heels in before agreeing (although his reported statement goes against that).
I wonder, Mick, whether you can clarify this episode, and indeed if you know more about why the Ujpest guy did not come. Certainly in Hungary it is believed that he turned it down, although here in the centre of the universe the preferred narrative is that the regime bottled it in the face of the ferocious backlash on Charlton Life.
I understand you may not feel able to write freely but it would be good to get any insights you can provide, so that we understand better how this mad regime works.
I understand that our Katrien said that she would resign if the Hungarian was appointed and that also his son advised him not to take it because of the toxicity that surrounds the club (no doubt amongst other things). I also understand that Riga drove to Roland's house and pimped himself to get the job!!
Well that's a revelation no-one seems to have picked up on. It doesn't surprise me, but that's a definite sign of someone lacking the heart to face the inevitable barrage she would receive.
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
I've heard something similar re KM and RM, but Riga isn't what was happening Wednesday night either. I also think it shows that the shitstorm heading their way can influence outcomes.
Curiouser & curiouser !
I REALLY wish you'd be less enigmatic, AB !
Not intentional. I simply heard that KM and RM realised that appointing Nobby Vinegar would bring the house down and declined to be buried in the rubble while RD sat in Belgium stroking his cat. KM then announced her "search" for the third time, externally and to the football staff, but the next morning RD imposed Riga, who wasn't seen by the others to be as big a problem.
Just imagine if we had lost 6-0 on Saturday under the Serb!
Comments
Complete tool like more recent appointees. A definite no.
That changes nothing other than the confidence of the support and then allied and linked to this the player confidence.
Me, I reckon he has the smarts and the experience, but it's a hard ask and so let's give him what we can to help.
I don't want to go down a division, I am building through my son a 5-6 year old support base, I have an extra season ticket where we take his friends.
These boys love football and a few get to watch live football.
'Our players are bad dad, really bad'
We need hard wins.
This is all so depressing. I find myself caught between a rock and a hard place. I am sure I am not alone in wanting Riga to succeed and organise us enough to keep us up. Unfortunately that will likely prolong the RD ownership nightmare.
I will protest but I want that process not to harm the teams chances.
Frankly I doubt that Riga has enough to work with to make it happen. I am mindful of the old adage "you can polish a turd but in the end it's still a turd"........
Please buy another British club for your experiment Roly. I'm sure there must be a couple of League 2 clubs looking for investment. Then you can sell us to someone that actually wants to run a football club normally.
I agree with a lot of your thoughtful analysis on RD the man and his motivations (although there is a lot more we can and should learn.
However as for your sentiments...Man up, Mick ! :-) Get out your own book and read the first part of it again.
You are right that it will be difficult to maintain the level of coverage in the British press week after week, although the plans in place by the brilliant squad of people pulled together by this equally brilliant website has put plenty of ammunition in its locker.
You are in my opinion dead wrong when you say the ripples won't reach Belgium. On the contrary they already have. Furthermore you may not have factored any of: RD's big box-office status in Belgium, the simmering resentment that still exists within Standard about the mess he left behind, or the streak of vanity which seems to run through him. He wants to be seen to do something which positively affects the community as opposed to just making money. Hence his foray into politics. It was a disaster, and since Charlton is easily the biggest of his remaining football investments, he faces disaster in football too. We have to get to him and show him rationally that his best bet is to step back gracefully and leave it to people who know what they are doing. In this respect the other puzzle about your suicidal analysis is that you did not refer to the "Varney factor" at all. That changes the dynamic significantly. He sold Standard in part because there was a ready buyer who enjoyed the confidence of the fans.
When i read your book (the Rise and Rise) I had the uneasy feeling that it painted a slightly complacent picture - a feeling which unfortunately turned out to be on the money. Don't get me wrong - we were all complacent. We should have formed a Supporters Trust the moment the movement got off the ground, not ten years later. We should not have surrendered the Supporter Director position with barely a murmur. But that's all in the past and we are where we are.
We are going to go out and get our Charlton back and this time we must never let it go again.
I'm going to step back from this, because it's an ongoing discussion, I'm not going to assist it in the terms you might like, and I simply wish people well.
To do you the courtesy of a response to the points you raise, though, I'd say simply this -
1) My book was written by someone who was a lot younger, and it was simply a snapshot of a moment in time - a nice moment, ten years on from coming back to The Valley. But it was essentially feel-good nonsense - a collection of things people wanted to hear, said by people they wanted to like. It's like 99% of football books - agreeable rubbish, served up to a specific audience. It's not a manifesto, a blueprint, or even, really, a 'proper' book. I've not opened it for at least 7 or 8 years, and I don't know that I've even got a copy any more! Life moves on!
2) You may say "ripples have reached Belgium" and you may be right, but my point remains that they won't change anything. You're talking about a theory - publicity will make him alter his course. I'm talking about reality - when a potential bid came in, which would have allowed him to alter course and walk away, he didn't even take the meeting. Which leads me onto...
3) I didn't refer to the 'Varney factor' because there isn't one. RD didn't want to speak to him about investment, and that's his right. He can't be forced to, and if the investment actually exists, it'll go elsewhere very soon. That's the reason I don't think RD will walk away - when offered the chance, with money returned to him and no real loss, he declined. The rejection of any offer from PV tells you a lot about how involved RD wishes to remain. It's also a bit awkward for PV, I'd imagine. If he has got backers worth £2.5bn, or whatever the figure was, they'll expect results. He's told them about the football club he ran for a decade, they've expressed an interest, and he's been unable even to get a meeting. That's a bit uncomfortable if you're a middle man, even if you're a good one, as PV clearly is.
If RD goes, it'll be because he wants to. There's no legal route to get rid of him (If Thaksin Shinawatra was a fit and proper person while being accused of human rights violations by Amnesty International, RD probably passes the test!), and if he doesn't want investors, no business route. There's nothing you can do to forcibly remove a private business from someone, just because they're not running it very well, even if it is a football club. And even if there was, the presence on the board of an apologist relic from the old ownership probably spikes your guns on that one.
It's not about 'manning up' or refusing to surrender, it's about looking at the bigger picture. This was always going to happen to a football club somewhere. All the component parts were there, from historic financial mismanagement to foreign, absentee ownership to puppet executives to hints of third party player ownership. And, inevitably, some would say, given our luck, we landed the lot, all in one go, along with a side order of 'mad football ownership experimentation'. Like I say, Charlton have become RD's lab rat. And lab rats rarely come out of these things very well.
In years to come, I'd like to see the concept of assets of community value being extended to organisations, not just premises. I'm not sure that can happen at the moment, can it? I'd like to see not just The Valley protected, but the organisation that resides within it. As it stands, you can kill the club but save the ground, just as you can save the youth club but sack the staff, or retain the pub building but without a viable business to fill it full of regulars. I think that's wrong (if I've understood it correctly?), and I think it needs to be changed. But big changes require big impetus, and I've got a horrible, lurking feeling that we might provide that.
I hope I'm wrong. Good luck all.
There is so much rubbish being spouted on this forum that I have felt compelled to refute (defend as you put it) but I realise that I am swimming against the tide. This is supposed to be a forum of mostly opinions yet some posters offer their opinions as facts which annoys me and I question their motives.
Anyway Karel phoned me on Monday and told me some of what went on that last weekend. I have mentioned just a couple of things that I feel are not harmful to his present position however as his reputation has been harmed and a future employer will want to know that he would not bad mouth him/her at a later date I will not say more - which is frustrating.
Maybe it was naivety, or maybe he is just blindly loyal to his employer, but either way, if you aren't honest with yourself, how do you expect thousands of fans to buy into what you are trying to do and give you the support you need to get on with it? In my opinion he had too many digs at the fans and never took responsibility for the terrible losses we suffered on the pitch, there was always some excuse. Clearly he never had the full support of the players either, because he rarely encouraged a performance out of even our best players. He was a bad fit for the club in so many ways, I would've had more respect for him if he'd thrown in the towel a couple of months back as it would have given us more of a fighting chance to get out of this mess.
Probably a nice enough guy personally, but he should never have been anywhere near a club at this level.
Yes, of course we have a tough job on our hands to get RD to change tack dramatically or leave altogether. My glimmer of hope is that he has publicly stated he wants out of football by the time he is 75 - just five to six years away. OK, who knows what state or what league we might be in by then, but he must start considering exit strategy within next three to four years, even if he won't countenance it now.
Personally, I'm in this for the long haul.
You're either a stunning bird with huge tits, lying, or Karel was even worse at his job than I thought.
P.S Did you sit next to him during the game then?
Most managers will say stuff to protect their players particularly when they are not in a strong position to change them. Better to be positive than negative I believe!
You also infer that he did not have the full support of the players. There is no evidence of that and JJ backed him publically. There were good performances but the constant changing of the side because of injuries and the lack of experience and fitness of the squad meant that nobody was consistent enough except perhaps Chris Solly.
I am however making a point that your continued backing up of a man who has contributed absolutely nothing but harm to this football club, despite his best intentions, is strange.
For you to say that you had a conversation with him and are now in phone contact, I find that baffling that's all.
Lighten up.
P.S did you sit with him during the game then?
The performances in the final few matches hint that the players had lost all confidence in him. No proof, but actions speak louder than words.
Karel Fraeye was another fall guy in this charade. Just as surely as Jose Riga's second coming will end in tears. The players aren't good enough overall, and those with ability who are not too old must be pleading with their agents to get them out.
The thing with Fraeye is quite simple. Football is no different to any other profession. It is all very well giving young people a chance but if you put them in something way beyond their experience and without you being available and willing to mentor them, they will crash and burn. That is the situation with both him and Meire.
Would he put a young bloke who has previously been a CEO of a tiny single unit electronics manufacture in Poland, in charge of his global micro-electronics business? Would he hell.
It's not rocket science...
Florid:
Having a red or flushed complexion
Excessively intricate or elaborate
Using unusual words or complicated rhetorical devices
I am a Trust member and have been going to the Valley longer than most on this forum.
Anyway with respect, I do not see why being friendly and in contact with someone that was connected to the club I love and with whom I respected is strange at all!
For the record when I met him at the match in Bromley and we talked in the directors lounge after the game (I was a guest) and afterwards in the supporters bar. Incidentally I visited the training ground just before Christmas and I saw the players working hard and they appeared happy to me from what I could see......
Wonder how she'd cope with an extended protest campaign...
If true, it also implies that RD 'aint sacking KM any time soon
The problem with conversations like this is that they will inevitably be tainted with self-defence, and Fraeye was already blaming just about everyone else for the ills at the club when he was a part of the problem too.
It's good to hear his candid point of view, but we need to put it into context too. It's entirely possible that Riga advised RD against appointing Fraeye for last season for example.
As I mentioned on last week's podcast, I heard that even Karel advised KM not to go with Mr Ujpest
Maybe 10 years on CL has made me too cynical. I would be very happy to chat with you and where better than at the Trust stall on Saturday. I should be there from 14.00. And if it turns out that I owe you an apology, you will certainly get one.
I REALLY wish you'd be less enigmatic, AB !
Just imagine if we had lost 6-0 on Saturday under the Serb!