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SLP Piece - Fraeye Couldn't Stand the Heat
Comments
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If aw the bloody belgiums 're readin' charlton Porridge Knife, then maybe we should start talkin' in code.1
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Had sympathy at one time but conduct in the final weeks removed that. he knew what he was getting himself into and gambled he could somehow bluff it. He's paid the price and is unlikely to get another managerial post of any standing.
The anger should be levelled at Meire and RD who tried to pull the wool over our eyes with a punt a cheap and pliable option might work. The net result is they failed and we are in deep shit.
And clearly Meire lied from the off, about his importance under Riga (surely even she could see that was likely to come back and bite her) and Fraeye being an interim.6 -
Great finkin. We gotta get A2C dahn ah gaff.tom- k said:If aw the bloody belgiums 're readin' charlton Porridge Knife, then maybe we should start talkin' in code.
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The thing is if you put yourself up for the role of head coach be it interim or permanent, part of the equipment you surely need is a thick skin. And have little or no desire or need to trawl social media and forums seeking approval or comment about your actions and decisions. You cannot really afford to be a sensitive soul about it.
I think Freaye also tried to blather his way through legitimate concerns posed to him and he came unstuck because his managerial abilities and planning on the pitch were simply not strong enough.
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It is the fact that he is trying to run an English football club in the same way he runs his other businesses that is the problem. He has become, financially, very successful by selling electronic components, then using that offering to move into TV and the entertainments business.SomervilleAddick said:
I wonder about this. I'm pretty certain that running his other businesses thus way would run them into the ground. My guess is that he has competent management in his other companies, who have experience and understand the business they are in. Why he thinks he doesn't need that same skill level to run a professional football team is a mystery. I sometimes wonder if he thinks it's the same as running a sports and social club.rananegra said:
I've nothing against him personally, the real blame lies with idiots who think they can run a multi million pound football business like an electronics manufacturing outfit.
He now thinks that he can take the same model and apply it to football. Develop and sell on footballers for a profit (like his semi-conductors) and create an entertainment industry around a football ground (like his TV companies). League football on a Saturday is nothing more than a shop window to allow this to happen. He isn't that bothered about the football itself, so long as the group of companies (his network) are meeting the targets.
What he seems to have completely missed is that the value in a football club isn't the young players and added entertainment. It is the football played and the first team playing that holds all of the value.
The sad thing here is that if he took his blinkers off and saw that having an appropriate manager and the necessary depth in the squad is the key to success, he could probably achieve his other ambitions of developing footballers and creating a different kind of entertainment space around the Valley. But he is obsessed that he is right and only people he knows can be trusted to deliver his ambitions. So we get this revolving list of junior managers taking charge (or at least, doing his bidding) every few months. Had RD listened last year, and put in place a manager used to working in the Championship and brought in players good enough (and in enough volume) for the league then there wouldn't be the level of criticism. There would have been complaints and issues, but not the wholesale demand for regime change. Now, through his own stupidity and belligerence, he has backed himself into a corner which he will find difficult to get out of.
Fraeye was a complete disaster, but his coming to us was inevitable as he has clearly been part of RD's project from the start. Riga might be able to turn the team around, but the jury is still out on that one. My guess is that he won't last the 18 months of his contract.
All of this could be that this is the last throw of the dice to try to make this project work. Or it might be to demonstrate what a genius he is at owning football clubs.
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Perhaps he was trying to find out what the fans of his new club were like and what made them tick. Some of the abuse would likely have made him sick. He's better of out of it.Weegie Addick said:Reading the forums and social media when in such a role strikes me as one of two things: either insecurity or narcissism. Started as the latter, ended as the former, I suspect.
(Chris Powell laughed his head off at the idea of a manager even looking at the forums.)
My view is football is important but not that important. I still love it enough to have been to 40+ games already this season plus play/manage myself but I can't abuse people or lose my rag too much over it. Let's hope that the lads play well at Hull tomorrow and remember why they started playing football in the first place.1 -
This. I'm generous to people generally, particularly when they've clearly been put in a position by someone else that's clearly beyond their capability. But Fraeye wasn't a victim of circumstance any more than Katrien is. It was his own arrogance that led to him being appointed and in the process of the last couple of years his trusted advice has done the club no end of damage.Clem_Snide said:Anyone feeling sorry for him, consider how he got the job. He was hawking himself to the club for months. In my opinion he was arrogance personified. A spineless corward who was found out and used a respected senior player as a human shield when he was expected to explain his short comings.
To suggest he stumbled into the role is laughable.4 -
Said it better than I could / did.Rufus_Ambition said:Good, enlightening article there Louis.
I'm conflicted over Fraeye. On the one hand, I feel sorry for him on a personal level, because being in a situation that you can't handle isn't nice. It was a public humiliation for him. To a certain degree I think he was thrown to the wolves by our charming CEO and owner. Yet again they massively underestimated the Championship and then scurried away to hide when the shit hit the fan.
But on the other hand, as others have said, all the evidence points to Fraeye manoeuvring himself into the Head Coach position by undermining others. Prior to being found out, he displayed an equal amount of arrogance as his paymasters. When he was found out, his cowardice was disgraceful.
I hope Katrien Meire reads this forum too. No malice intended Katrien, but this job isn't for you. Just consider how much more pleasant your life would be if you resigned.0 -
That's a very good piece @LouisMend1
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Great post. Someone should email that you RD.henrythecat said:
It is the fact that he is trying to run an English football club in the same way he runs his other businesses that is the problem. He has become, financially, very successful by selling electronic components, then using that offering to move into TV and the entertainments business.SomervilleAddick said:
I wonder about this. I'm pretty certain that running his other businesses thus way would run them into the ground. My guess is that he has competent management in his other companies, who have experience and understand the business they are in. Why he thinks he doesn't need that same skill level to run a professional football team is a mystery. I sometimes wonder if he thinks it's the same as running a sports and social club.rananegra said:
I've nothing against him personally, the real blame lies with idiots who think they can run a multi million pound football business like an electronics manufacturing outfit.
He now thinks that he can take the same model and apply it to football. Develop and sell on footballers for a profit (like his semi-conductors) and create an entertainment industry around a football ground (like his TV companies). League football on a Saturday is nothing more than a shop window to allow this to happen. He isn't that bothered about the football itself, so long as the group of companies (his network) are meeting the targets.
What he seems to have completely missed is that the value in a football club isn't the young players and added entertainment. It is the football played and the first team playing that holds all of the value.
The sad thing here is that if he took his blinkers off and saw that having an appropriate manager and the necessary depth in the squad is the key to success, he could probably achieve his other ambitions of developing footballers and creating a different kind of entertainment space around the Valley. But he is obsessed that he is right and only people he knows can be trusted to deliver his ambitions. So we get this revolving list of junior managers taking charge (or at least, doing his bidding) every few months. Had RD listened last year, and put in place a manager used to working in the Championship and brought in players good enough (and in enough volume) for the league then there wouldn't be the level of criticism. There would have been complaints and issues, but not the wholesale demand for regime change. Now, through his own stupidity and belligerence, he has backed himself into a corner which he will find difficult to get out of.
Fraeye was a complete disaster, but his coming to us was inevitable as he has clearly been part of RD's project from the start. Riga might be able to turn the team around, but the jury is still out on that one. My guess is that he won't last the 18 months of his contract.
I do wonder though, if it is telling that RD came over for this latest change of head coach. Previous ones he did at a distance and left KM to manage. It could be that this is the last throw of the dice to try to make this project work. Or he might be here just to see what a genius he is at owning football clubs.
Did he come over? I missed that one, is that 100%?0 -
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Oh that would be great! Wonder what happened to him...MountsfieldPark said:
Great finkin. We gotta get A2C dahn ah gaff.tom- k said:If aw the bloody belgiums 're readin' charlton Porridge Knife, then maybe we should start talkin' in code.
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Apologies. In my Friday afternoon addled brain, I misread it. No, don't think he came over. Have edited original to reflect.rikofold said:
Great post. Someone should email that you RD.henrythecat said:
It is the fact that he is trying to run an English football club in the same way he runs his other businesses that is the problem. He has become, financially, very successful by selling electronic components, then using that offering to move into TV and the entertainments business.SomervilleAddick said:
I wonder about this. I'm pretty certain that running his other businesses thus way would run them into the ground. My guess is that he has competent management in his other companies, who have experience and understand the business they are in. Why he thinks he doesn't need that same skill level to run a professional football team is a mystery. I sometimes wonder if he thinks it's the same as running a sports and social club.rananegra said:
I've nothing against him personally, the real blame lies with idiots who think they can run a multi million pound football business like an electronics manufacturing outfit.
He now thinks that he can take the same model and apply it to football. Develop and sell on footballers for a profit (like his semi-conductors) and create an entertainment industry around a football ground (like his TV companies). League football on a Saturday is nothing more than a shop window to allow this to happen. He isn't that bothered about the football itself, so long as the group of companies (his network) are meeting the targets.
What he seems to have completely missed is that the value in a football club isn't the young players and added entertainment. It is the football played and the first team playing that holds all of the value.
The sad thing here is that if he took his blinkers off and saw that having an appropriate manager and the necessary depth in the squad is the key to success, he could probably achieve his other ambitions of developing footballers and creating a different kind of entertainment space around the Valley. But he is obsessed that he is right and only people he knows can be trusted to deliver his ambitions. So we get this revolving list of junior managers taking charge (or at least, doing his bidding) every few months. Had RD listened last year, and put in place a manager used to working in the Championship and brought in players good enough (and in enough volume) for the league then there wouldn't be the level of criticism. There would have been complaints and issues, but not the wholesale demand for regime change. Now, through his own stupidity and belligerence, he has backed himself into a corner which he will find difficult to get out of.
Fraeye was a complete disaster, but his coming to us was inevitable as he has clearly been part of RD's project from the start. Riga might be able to turn the team around, but the jury is still out on that one. My guess is that he won't last the 18 months of his contract.
I do wonder though, if it is telling that RD came over for this latest change of head coach. Previous ones he did at a distance and left KM to manage. It could be that this is the last throw of the dice to try to make this project work. Or he might be here just to see what a genius he is at owning football clubs.
Did he come over? I missed that one, is that 100%?0 -
" As my deceased mother taught me - if you have nothing nice to say- don't say anything...
unless it 's about Katrien & Roland "
Thanks, Swisdom.4 -
Good grief no!MountsfieldPark said:
Great finkin. We gotta get A2C dahn ah gaff.tom- k said:If aw the bloody belgiums 're readin' charlton Porridge Knife, then maybe we should start talkin' in code.
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Ha yeah, sorry, spoiler alert. Once you get there, one of the most heartbreaking aspects of the book is the fact he's club captain, a German international and Bundesliga goalkeeper of the year and he can't work out why he's still not happy doing what he loves.Swisdom said:
I'm only halfway through - he's still at Barca for me.Garrymanilow said:
Well no actually, Robert Enke killed himself because he had clinical depression, which is a disease. His unsuccessful moves abroad, particularly Barcelona, certainly didn't help and he was constantly experiencing self-doubt because of the nature of his role, but he actually killed himself during the most successful and calmest footballing spell of his career, which is one of the truly horrible aspects of depression. The death of his daughter is really what pushed him into a place where he couldn't recover.Swisdom said:
That's the sort of poisonous shit that's unnecessary.Nicholas said:Karel if you are reading this your a disgrace, now go back to Belgian and manage a team in front of 10 people like you did before.
Some of the stuff that gets written on here is bang out of order.
IF anyone is looking for a good read - try reading Robert Enke's book. For those who don't know he is the for German international goalkeeper who killed himself because of the pressures of football. A fucking game.
We may not be happy but as far as I am concerned the players and Karel are/were not the problem. They are not paid enough to deal with the shit they are dealing with from thousands of people every week. I reiterate it's a game.
The regime are the bulk of the problem but from tomorrow onwards we should be absolutely 100% behind Jose Riga and the team. That's the only way out of this mess.
As mym deceased mother taught me - if you have nothing nice to say - don't say anything.
It is definitely a book worth reading though, really heartbreaking account of depression.
You just ruined the ending :-)
Joking aside I know depression was the reason but the whole football/fans/stress side of it was a massive factor. Looking at Karel towards the end and he looked to have the weight of the world on his shoulders.
I don't think the venom played a part. Losing to Col U and then getting pumped at Huddersfield sealed his fateAddickted2U said:
I agree to a point, but as Louis's article suggests it was the type of venom that got rid of him. He read it.Swisdom said:
That's the sort of poisonous shit that's unnecessary.Nicholas said:Karel if you are reading this your a disgrace, now go back to Belgian and manage a team in front of 10 people like you did before.
Some of the stuff that gets written on here is bang out of order.
IF anyone is looking for a good read - try reading Robert Enke's book. For those who don't know he is the for German international goalkeeper who killed himself because of the pressures of football. A fucking game.
We may not be happy but as far as I am concerned the players and Karel are/were not the problem. They are not paid enough to deal with the shit they are dealing with from thousands of people every week. I reiterate it's a game.
The regime are the bulk of the problem but from tomorrow onwards we should be absolutely 100% behind Jose Riga and the team. That's the only way out of this mess.
As mym deceased mother taught me - if you have nothing nice to say - don't say anything.0 -
My sympathy for Fraeye - it must be horrible when your terrible delusions are so brutally exposed, and it must have been a lonely last few weeks - is limited by the likelihood that he probably (willingly) remains on the Staprix payroll in some capacity. While RD and KM remain, I doubt we've seen the last of him.6
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Scorching article Louis, well done.0
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Probably took someones suggestions off of hereAddickted2U said:How the hell did he manage 3 - 1 win against Wendies and 1 - 0 at Brum? I will be pondering that for a long time. Perhaps he could have done alright with a few fit players available?
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Why RD could not see that he would be completely out of his depth is a mystery and underlines why Championship experience is important. I think Rega will need a good team around him.1
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Lazy_eye_metaphor said:
Oh that would be great! Wonder what happened to him...MountsfieldPark said:
Great finkin. We gotta get A2C dahn ah gaff.tom- k said:If aw the bloody belgiums 're readin' charlton Porridge Knife, then maybe we should start talkin' in code.
I've been wondering that for ages too! Is he now Colin?Lazy_eye_metaphor said:
Oh that would be great! Wonder what happened to him...MountsfieldPark said:
Great finkin. We gotta get A2C dahn ah gaff.tom- k said:If aw the bloody belgiums 're readin' charlton Porridge Knife, then maybe we should start talkin' in code.
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It's OK, there's only one Belgium.tom- k said:If aw the bloody belgiums 're readin' charlton Porridge Knife, then maybe we should start talkin' in code.
'Bloody' Belgians, on the other hand, well there's loads of 'em.0 -
Excellent piece Louis.0
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Have just got in and read some of this thread. Well said, LargeAddick.LargeAddick said:I actually find myself feeling a bit sorry for him.
We're not all thick-skinned folk who can shrug off the brickbats. And if one were able to do that (which I doubt), they would be very aloof, distant and probably arrogant.
Say what you like - and plenty have - but as far as I'm concerned, Fraeye wasn't the problem. Duchatelet was, and remains so. It's him and his failed business model that we need to remove from CAFC.5 -
Les Reed wasn't up to the job, doesn't mean you have to hate someone, now he's been replaced, Karel can breath a sigh of relief with the rest of us.0
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Whatever he has done to our football club, I'll reserve my hate for the many low-lifes that trawl this earth with no thought or care for others.5
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So you started preaching to me about a book you hadn't even finished reading.Swisdom said:
I'm only halfway through - he's still at Barca for me.Garrymanilow said:
Well no actually, Robert Enke killed himself because he had clinical depression, which is a disease. His unsuccessful moves abroad, particularly Barcelona, certainly didn't help and he was constantly experiencing self-doubt because of the nature of his role, but he actually killed himself during the most successful and calmest footballing spell of his career, which is one of the truly horrible aspects of depression. The death of his daughter is really what pushed him into a place where he couldn't recover.Swisdom said:
That's the sort of poisonous shit that's unnecessary.Nicholas said:Karel if you are reading this your a disgrace, now go back to Belgian and manage a team in front of 10 people like you did before.
Some of the stuff that gets written on here is bang out of order.
IF anyone is looking for a good read - try reading Robert Enke's book. For those who don't know he is the for German international goalkeeper who killed himself because of the pressures of football. A fucking game.
We may not be happy but as far as I am concerned the players and Karel are/were not the problem. They are not paid enough to deal with the shit they are dealing with from thousands of people every week. I reiterate it's a game.
The regime are the bulk of the problem but from tomorrow onwards we should be absolutely 100% behind Jose Riga and the team. That's the only way out of this mess.
As mym deceased mother taught me - if you have nothing nice to say - don't say anything.
It is definitely a book worth reading though, really heartbreaking account of depression.
You just ruined the ending :-)
Joking aside I know depression was the reason but the whole football/fans/stress side of it was a massive factor. Looking at Karel towards the end and he looked to have the weight of the world on his shoulders.
I don't think the venom played a part. Losing to Col U and then getting pumped at Huddersfield sealed his fateAddickted2U said:
I agree to a point, but as Louis's article suggests it was the type of venom that got rid of him. He read it.Swisdom said:
That's the sort of poisonous shit that's unnecessary.Nicholas said:Karel if you are reading this your a disgrace, now go back to Belgian and manage a team in front of 10 people like you did before.
Some of the stuff that gets written on here is bang out of order.
IF anyone is looking for a good read - try reading Robert Enke's book. For those who don't know he is the for German international goalkeeper who killed himself because of the pressures of football. A fucking game.
We may not be happy but as far as I am concerned the players and Karel are/were not the problem. They are not paid enough to deal with the shit they are dealing with from thousands of people every week. I reiterate it's a game.
The regime are the bulk of the problem but from tomorrow onwards we should be absolutely 100% behind Jose Riga and the team. That's the only way out of this mess.
As mym deceased mother taught me - if you have nothing nice to say - don't say anything.3 -
Henry, you always bring it back round with a sensible and well thought out comment. I was enjoying the sparring between @ValleyGary and @ShootersHillGuru and @Nicholas @kentaddick.Henry Irving said:Don't hate him. People who knew him said he was a nice guy.
But he was also a long term part of the regime and in particular the atrocious player recruitment that is damaging our club.
Bye, bye Karel, hope you find a decent job outside the network.
More importantly, this article shows that fan pressure can and does get to its targets so keep it up.
By any legal or decent means necessary.
Why ruin it?6 -
That was the best partBartleyPark said:At the very least, we might have dissuaded him from wearing the waistcoat.
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Wasn't preaching - just showing the fragility of life when the human mind is at its worst.Nicholas said:
So you started preaching to me about a book you hadn't even finished reading.Swisdom said:
I'm only halfway through - he's still at Barca for me.Garrymanilow said:
Well no actually, Robert Enke killed himself because he had clinical depression, which is a disease. His unsuccessful moves abroad, particularly Barcelona, certainly didn't help and he was constantly experiencing self-doubt because of the nature of his role, but he actually killed himself during the most successful and calmest footballing spell of his career, which is one of the truly horrible aspects of depression. The death of his daughter is really what pushed him into a place where he couldn't recover.Swisdom said:
That's the sort of poisonous shit that's unnecessary.Nicholas said:Karel if you are reading this your a disgrace, now go back to Belgian and manage a team in front of 10 people like you did before.
Some of the stuff that gets written on here is bang out of order.
IF anyone is looking for a good read - try reading Robert Enke's book. For those who don't know he is the for German international goalkeeper who killed himself because of the pressures of football. A fucking game.
We may not be happy but as far as I am concerned the players and Karel are/were not the problem. They are not paid enough to deal with the shit they are dealing with from thousands of people every week. I reiterate it's a game.
The regime are the bulk of the problem but from tomorrow onwards we should be absolutely 100% behind Jose Riga and the team. That's the only way out of this mess.
As mym deceased mother taught me - if you have nothing nice to say - don't say anything.
It is definitely a book worth reading though, really heartbreaking account of depression.
You just ruined the ending :-)
Joking aside I know depression was the reason but the whole football/fans/stress side of it was a massive factor. Looking at Karel towards the end and he looked to have the weight of the world on his shoulders.
I don't think the venom played a part. Losing to Col U and then getting pumped at Huddersfield sealed his fateAddickted2U said:
I agree to a point, but as Louis's article suggests it was the type of venom that got rid of him. He read it.Swisdom said:
That's the sort of poisonous shit that's unnecessary.Nicholas said:Karel if you are reading this your a disgrace, now go back to Belgian and manage a team in front of 10 people like you did before.
Some of the stuff that gets written on here is bang out of order.
IF anyone is looking for a good read - try reading Robert Enke's book. For those who don't know he is the for German international goalkeeper who killed himself because of the pressures of football. A fucking game.
We may not be happy but as far as I am concerned the players and Karel are/were not the problem. They are not paid enough to deal with the shit they are dealing with from thousands of people every week. I reiterate it's a game.
The regime are the bulk of the problem but from tomorrow onwards we should be absolutely 100% behind Jose Riga and the team. That's the only way out of this mess.
As mym deceased mother taught me - if you have nothing nice to say - don't say anything.
Besides..I'm not even reading it. I'm listening to the audiobook0 -
That's just lazy3
