Warning. Contains strong language including c word. Don't play if you are easily offended. But Sir Ben Kingsley answers the question quite well I feel. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KmR8fzQjuD8
Yes they certainly could win me back. They have done some things right like the pitch, some new seats, real ale in the east stand, investing in the training facilities, new telly, cheap season tickets etc It's just that other small matter, the 1st team football, that most would consider the top priority that would have to be put right to get me back on side. Can't see it happening though, they ain't got a clue and they think they know better than the rest of the world.
- A dynamic, impressive CEO with football experience.
- Some 'football people' installed - be it a Director of football, technical directors, etc. Possibly ex-pros that can actually form a football-based strategy.
- A chief scout and sufficient scouting team.
- A manager or head coach with the requisite clout and experience.
- First team coaching staff that have experience at this level.
- A squad that capable of competing in this league, at a level that would at least give us hope of a playoff place (along with about 15 other clubs)
They have just witnessed a huge complaint from a lot of their customers and they cannot even bother to acknowledge it, comment, or try to build any bridges to resolve it. The relationship is completely over as far as I am concerned. They can do one.
I still agree with what they originally said they wanted for the club in that first video interview, i.e. that the club would be run to be competitive in the Championship with ambition to get int the premier league with a focus on youth development and being a community based, supporters club.
However, the reality of how they have run the club has not aligned well with that stated aim which is where they have lost me over the last few months, with the misleading 'Interim' appointment of Fraeye being the final straw for me.
Relations between fans and the regime (particularly Meire) have probably reached the point of no return. However, personally, I don't really care that much about Roland or Meire's personality if they can can run the club the way they said they would. There has to be severe doubt that they are capable of doing it, particularly the bits about making it a supporters club, but IF they could change their ways then I'd be willing to forgive and forget.
I'm fine with the concept of selling on our players to help the team and the academy develop and operate, it's a reality of the modern game for a club like us and something we have done to good effect in the past (Lee and Minto's sales helping keep the club afloat and the back to the valley campaign on track, the Bowyer money building Curbs play-off team, the Mills money keeping the team together after relegation and buying Deano, the Jenkinson money helping build CP's promotion team etc etc).
The difference, I believe, between the way we have done things in the past and Roland's master plan is that as well as selling players like Bowyer, we also managed to keep players like Rufus and Newton who became key players in times of on field success , not means to improve the bottom line. I personally found Meire's recent statement about just selling all our players to the Premier League far more disturbing than the relatively harmless comparison between us and cinema goers.
I want us fans to feel involved and wanted by our club and all that stuff does matter but, for me, as a fan living in another country who, even when I was a season ticket holder, follows the club for the football not the off-field politics, I can live with weird shit like having a NHS call centre in the ticket office if the results are going okay and I suspect that is really where they have lost the majority of the protesting fans. The other stuff is, to an extent, window dressing.
If they start to take the football side of things seriously (immediately) then I'm willing to give them more time. By seriously I mean:
- Appoint a manager or head coach properly qualified and experienced to work in the Championship.
- Appoint a proper scouting network employed directly by CAFC.
- Possibly appoint a Director of Football to take overall responsibility for playing performance away from the CEO and Roland.
- Give scouting network, manager/head coach (and DofF) full responsibility for identifying the players they want to sign. The only input from the CEO or owner on transfers should be related to setting budgets, negotiating fees, and agreeing contracts, but it needs to be at the very least a budget realistic for a mid-table Championship side.
- Don't change the manager every 20 games.
- Continue to invest in the academy infrastructure with the intent of producing quality players for Charlton's first team, accepting that some may have to be sold to help balance the books, but that any excess cash from those sales will be put back into the club.
- Ideally get Cat 1 academy status to help protect us from Premier League vultures and assist us in attracting the best young players, but don't go for just the minimum requirements to get Cat 1, aim to be the best academy in the country.
Southampton have shown that there is balance between selling and retaining young players that can help lead to improved performance on the pitch and significant revenue for the club. I think that would be a decent model for us to follow. I have serious doubts that we will ever go that route under Roland's watch though.
Totally agree with all of that but would just like to add one more point
- Pigs must fly over The Valley wearing pinocchio masks
It's gonna be a tough battle as every little point scraped or goal scored under Colin Fraeye is going to be portrayed like its a Cup Final win - dramatic photos with inspirational quotes, artsy video interviews with whichever player is deemed eloquent enough to mumble some vaguely inspiration platitudes. Every point scraped or goal scored will give Meire further proof that all her decisions have been correct! So for me the answer is no- or we are forever doomed to medoocrity.
If Roland sacked Katrien, got a proper manager that knows the league, got a proper chief scout and got a director of football (and let them run the football side), while investing smartly in the transfer market (not just in this window), then yes.
Unfortunately there is more chance of me sleeping with Mila Kunis than all that happening.
So, realistically, no. I'm done.
Roland, Katrien and Karel ... it's time to go.
Whoa don't be so hasty, there's rumours that all is not well in the marriage.
The biggest risk that we (as a protest group) face is that the team string a few wins together (great) and we lose sight of how bad our owners are. We must keep focus and encourage someone to buy us.
We have to get rid of these people, believe me, they do not have Charlton Athletic at heart - we are just a route to profit for them and the fans count for ziltch.
No one is beyond redemption. I started out against the club being used as some sort of social experiment and remain so now.
However if they have a complete reversal on a lot of the bullshit they've done of course I'd be happy. Can't see that happening in a month of Sundays mind you.
The most criminal thing is they have the financial muscle to run the club properly. It's a myth you need to spend obscene sums to get promoted or even compete, granted running a club isn't cheap and it baffles me to his day why any successful business people would go near investing in a football club due to the running costs.
You need a senior squad of at least 18 to compete and maintain a healthy level of competition for places without alienating the ones not in the team. Youngsters can then be bled in gradually as opposed to throwing them in before they are ready
Engage with the fan base, none of us mind not being in the top six if the side are leaving everything on the field. Same as any sport. Find out what us fans want, don't guess.
Give the playing staff the best chance you can, encourage travelling support and facilitate it as best as you can. Encourage fans to come to the ground by making buying a ticket as painless as possible. All the fluff like shiny seats, food, sofa's doesn't mean squat to me. A side that gives it everything, a manager that is allowed to manage. A sensible recruitment policy all help this.
A categoric no. The crime sheet is now beyond redemption. No doubt they think that Saturday was just a bit of a wheeze and all will be rosy again come the Blackburn game and have not even considered that there is, as things stand, a strong possibility we will have a home game prior to that. Wonder if a pricing structure is in place should we be at home around January 19th? Rhetorical question methinks.
I still agree with what they originally said they wanted for the club in that first video interview, i.e. that the club would be run to be competitive in the Championship with ambition to get int the premier league with a focus on youth development and being a community based, supporters club.
However, the reality of how they have run the club has not aligned well with that stated aim which is where they have lost me over the last few months, with the misleading 'Interim' appointment of Fraeye being the final straw for me.
Relations between fans and the regime (particularly Meire) have probably reached the point of no return. However, personally, I don't really care that much about Roland or Meire's personality if they can can run the club the way they said they would. There has to be severe doubt that they are capable of doing it, particularly the bits about making it a supporters club, but IF they could change their ways then I'd be willing to forgive and forget.
I'm fine with the concept of selling on our players to help the team and the academy develop and operate, it's a reality of the modern game for a club like us and something we have done to good effect in the past (Lee and Minto's sales helping keep the club afloat and the back to the valley campaign on track, the Bowyer money building Curbs play-off team, the Mills money keeping the team together after relegation and buying Deano, the Jenkinson money helping build CP's promotion team etc etc).
The difference, I believe, between the way we have done things in the past and Roland's master plan is that as well as selling players like Bowyer, we also managed to keep players like Rufus and Newton who became key players in times of on field success , not means to improve the bottom line. I personally found Meire's recent statement about just selling all our players to the Premier League far more disturbing than the relatively harmless comparison between us and cinema goers.
I want us fans to feel involved and wanted by our club and all that stuff does matter but, for me, as a fan living in another country who, even when I was a season ticket holder, follows the club for the football not the off-field politics, I can live with weird shit like having a NHS call centre in the ticket office if the results are going okay and I suspect that is really where they have lost the majority of the protesting fans. The other stuff is, to an extent, window dressing.
If they start to take the football side of things seriously (immediately) then I'm willing to give them more time. By seriously I mean:
- Appoint a manager or head coach properly qualified and experienced to work in the Championship.
- Appoint a proper scouting network employed directly by CAFC.
- Possibly appoint a Director of Football to take overall responsibility for playing performance away from the CEO and Roland.
- Give scouting network, manager/head coach (and DofF) full responsibility for identifying the players they want to sign. The only input from the CEO or owner on transfers should be related to setting budgets, negotiating fees, and agreeing contracts, but it needs to be at the very least a budget realistic for a mid-table Championship side.
- Don't change the manager every 20 games.
- Continue to invest in the academy infrastructure with the intent of producing quality players for Charlton's first team, accepting that some may have to be sold to help balance the books, but that any excess cash from those sales will be put back into the club.
- Ideally get Cat 1 academy status to help protect us from Premier League vultures and assist us in attracting the best young players, but don't go for just the minimum requirements to get Cat 1, aim to be the best academy in the country.
Southampton have shown that there is balance between selling and retaining young players that can help lead to improved performance on the pitch and significant revenue for the club. I think that would be a decent model for us to follow. I have serious doubts that we will ever go that route under Roland's watch though.
Totally agree with all of that but would just like to add one more point
- Pigs must fly over The Valley wearing pinocchio masks
Well the questions was could they win you back not will they win you back.
They have just witnessed a huge complaint from a lot of their customers and they cannot even bother to acknowledge it, comment, or try to build any bridges to resolve it. The relationship is completely over as far as I am concerned. They can do one.
We must understand that they will do everything their own way and have a mummy knows best mentality. Roland's crazy network experiment means he's unlikely to listen to anyone with a contrary opinion. Personally I'm sick of turning up in August with my season ticket full of hope and looking forward to good things only to later spend January trawling through the web pages to find what loan players are coming in to save our bacon. We have to endure half a season of dross and scrap to save our status in the remaining months. This plus all the aggro that goes on with this hopeless management and the constant stream of inept Managers (Interim or not) doesn't exactly make for an ideal fan experience as envisaged by KM. Black and white now means we've had it with you!
It's not inconceivable that things could change. There are two possible ways this could happen. As cited already, there could be a humble pie moment from Roland whereby he says that he got it wrong and there is a new plan. I don't think this is impossible even though it is unlikely. People like Roland have the ability to change tack without worrying about what may have happened before. I am sure he would have no problem replacing the CEO and manager if it served his purpose.
The second scenario which hasn't (to my knowledge) been considered is luck. It's just possible that we stay up and recruit another bunch of unknowns this summer and they turn out to be good. You can almost argue it was what many thought had happened this season after a couple of games. I am sure if we are top of the Championship after 15 games next season, the protests will erode.
However, these are big ifs and it does seem very unlikely.
as said on the other thread - the ideal would be to re sign kermorgant before next league game, appoint curbishley as dof and powell as manager asap - appoint jackson as player / assistant manager at start of next season and get into discussions with the arabs so varney comes on board as ceo and they fund the first team whilst rd pisses about with the academy thing and maybe nicks les reed from southampton to oversee it - everyones happy and katrien can get her kit off next home game, show everyone her tits and then get cracking with the washing up.
I still agree with what they originally said they wanted for the club in that first video interview, i.e. that the club would be run to be competitive in the Championship with ambition to get int the premier league with a focus on youth development and being a community based, supporters club.
However, the reality of how they have run the club has not aligned well with that stated aim which is where they have lost me over the last few months, with the misleading 'Interim' appointment of Fraeye being the final straw for me.
Relations between fans and the regime (particularly Meire) have probably reached the point of no return. However, personally, I don't really care that much about Roland or Meire's personality if they can can run the club the way they said they would. There has to be severe doubt that they are capable of doing it, particularly the bits about making it a supporters club, but IF they could change their ways then I'd be willing to forgive and forget.
I'm fine with the concept of selling on our players to help the team and the academy develop and operate, it's a reality of the modern game for a club like us and something we have done to good effect in the past (Lee and Minto's sales helping keep the club afloat and the back to the valley campaign on track, the Bowyer money building Curbs play-off team, the Mills money keeping the team together after relegation and buying Deano, the Jenkinson money helping build CP's promotion team etc etc).
The difference, I believe, between the way we have done things in the past and Roland's master plan is that as well as selling players like Bowyer, we also managed to keep players like Rufus and Newton who became key players in times of on field success , not means to improve the bottom line. I personally found Meire's recent statement about just selling all our players to the Premier League far more disturbing than the relatively harmless comparison between us and cinema goers.
I want us fans to feel involved and wanted by our club and all that stuff does matter but, for me, as a fan living in another country who, even when I was a season ticket holder, follows the club for the football not the off-field politics, I can live with weird shit like having a NHS call centre in the ticket office if the results are going okay and I suspect that is really where they have lost the majority of the protesting fans. The other stuff is, to an extent, window dressing.
If they start to take the football side of things seriously (immediately) then I'm willing to give them more time. By seriously I mean:
- Appoint a manager or head coach properly qualified and experienced to work in the Championship.
- Appoint a proper scouting network employed directly by CAFC.
- Possibly appoint a Director of Football to take overall responsibility for playing performance away from the CEO and Roland.
- Give scouting network, manager/head coach (and DofF) full responsibility for identifying the players they want to sign. The only input from the CEO or owner on transfers should be related to setting budgets, negotiating fees, and agreeing contracts, but it needs to be at the very least a budget realistic for a mid-table Championship side.
- Don't change the manager every 20 games.
- Continue to invest in the academy infrastructure with the intent of producing quality players for Charlton's first team, accepting that some may have to be sold to help balance the books, but that any excess cash from those sales will be put back into the club.
- Ideally get Cat 1 academy status to help protect us from Premier League vultures and assist us in attracting the best young players, but don't go for just the minimum requirements to get Cat 1, aim to be the best academy in the country.
Southampton have shown that there is balance between selling and retaining young players that can help lead to improved performance on the pitch and significant revenue for the club. I think that would be a decent model for us to follow. I have serious doubts that we will ever go that route under Roland's watch though.
This! As much as it would never happen this is exactly what is required...
I would also add employing Charlton people at every level. Sure we can't go out and get chapple and Ben Roberts and the rest back that ship has sailed but people who get the club and know what we are about and are good football people at all levels is essential!
Make the place felt like home again! Everyone from fans players and backroom staff from CEO to club shop employees or receptionists are pulling all together for the common aim!
Miere has to go and be banned from setting foot within 1000 feet of the valley or sparrows lane or just Charlton...
On the playing side I wouldn't demand huge investment in the team.. just a realist amount. I am happy to have loans and free agents coming in but I do expect a squad with the depth to be able to handle the championship. And it has to be made up of the right mix of championship experience, youth players and players brought from abroad We are Charlton for Christ's sake and we know we are!! We don't expect to romp to the league title with as team of hugely talented players (as much as that would be nice)! but we do expect to turn up each week and see a well drilled, organised team that will give everything, be hard to beat and will fight for the cause. That way we turn up at every game knowing we have very chance of comeing away with something.. its the constantrolling over and allowing us to get beaten that is paining me the most!
A proper manager, DOF (one who can work quietly in the background ala Les Reed rather than someone with a big personality who will undermine the manager) a chief scout with his own scouting network.
Oh and complete honesty on all matters.... ticket office open as before and no bloody NHS call centre..
There is probably more but that's off the top of my head!
However none of this will ever happen. Roland is like Thatcher (this lady is not for turning) hopefully like her it will prove to be his downfall as he takes on one battle to many and the uproar of the Charlton fans cause him to leave. Hopefully he won't last as long as she did!
No - I think it's best for parties that there's no attempt at prolonging this agony by trying to win the fans back over, they both need to go now.
I nearly said "If Roland sacked Katrien and made a public apology on her behalf, acknowledging how she's treated the loyal supporters then I would reconsider and be open to giving him 6 months to demonstrate he can do better." - but actually that's never going to happen, and more to the point - would actually be grossly unfair on Katrien (shockhorror.) who I think has largely been a pawn in the whole affair. Albeit a pawn with an inflated sense of worth.
Comments
I'm not a picky customer.
;-)
It's just that other small matter, the 1st team football, that most would consider the top priority that would have to be put right to get me back on side.
Can't see it happening though, they ain't got a clue and they think they know better than the rest of the world.
- A dynamic, impressive CEO with football experience.
- Some 'football people' installed - be it a Director of football, technical directors, etc. Possibly ex-pros that can actually form a football-based strategy.
- A chief scout and sufficient scouting team.
- A manager or head coach with the requisite clout and experience.
- First team coaching staff that have experience at this level.
- A squad that capable of competing in this league, at a level that would at least give us hope of a playoff place (along with about 15 other clubs)
Sort that lot and I'm on board.
The relationship is completely over as far as I am concerned.
They can do one.
Fraeye gone and an experienced manager in as a start.
An experienced CEO.
Sensible player recruitment.
Those 3 things seem so far fetched in the world of Roly, that realiatically they are never going to win me back.
- Pigs must fly over The Valley wearing pinocchio masks
We have to get rid of these people, believe me, they do not have Charlton Athletic at heart - we are just a route to profit for them and the fans count for ziltch.
Do one.
However if they have a complete reversal on a lot of the bullshit they've done of course I'd be happy. Can't see that happening in a month of Sundays mind you.
The most criminal thing is they have the financial muscle to run the club properly. It's a myth you need to spend obscene sums to get promoted or even compete, granted running a club isn't cheap and it baffles me to his day why any successful business people would go near investing in a football club due to the running costs.
You need a senior squad of at least 18 to compete and maintain a healthy level of competition for places without alienating the ones not in the team. Youngsters can then be bled in gradually as opposed to throwing them in before they are ready
Engage with the fan base, none of us mind not being in the top six if the side are leaving everything on the field. Same as any sport. Find out what us fans want, don't guess.
Give the playing staff the best chance you can, encourage travelling support and facilitate it as best as you can. Encourage fans to come to the ground by making buying a ticket as painless as possible. All the fluff like shiny seats, food, sofa's doesn't mean squat to me. A side that gives it everything, a manager that is allowed to manage. A sensible recruitment policy all help this.
Roland's crazy network experiment means he's unlikely to listen to anyone with a contrary opinion.
Personally I'm sick of turning up in August with my season ticket full of hope and looking forward to good things only to later spend January trawling through the web pages to find what loan players are coming in to save our bacon.
We have to endure half a season of dross and scrap to save our status in the remaining months.
This plus all the aggro that goes on with this hopeless management and the constant stream of inept Managers (Interim or not) doesn't exactly make for an ideal fan experience as envisaged by KM.
Black and white now means we've had it with you!
The second scenario which hasn't (to my knowledge) been considered is luck. It's just possible that we stay up and recruit another bunch of unknowns this summer and they turn out to be good. You can almost argue it was what many thought had happened this season after a couple of games. I am sure if we are top of the Championship after 15 games next season, the protests will erode.
However, these are big ifs and it does seem very unlikely.
I would also add employing Charlton people at every level. Sure we can't go out and get chapple and Ben Roberts and the rest back that ship has sailed but people who get the club and know what we are about and are good football people at all levels is essential!
Make the place felt like home again! Everyone from fans players and backroom staff from CEO to club shop employees or receptionists are pulling all together for the common aim!
Miere has to go and be banned from setting foot within 1000 feet of the valley or sparrows lane or just Charlton...
On the playing side I wouldn't demand huge investment in the team.. just a realist amount. I am happy to have loans and free agents coming in but I do expect a squad with the depth to be able to handle the championship. And it has to be made up of the right mix of championship experience, youth players and players brought from abroad
We are Charlton for Christ's sake and we know we are!! We don't expect to romp to the league title with as team of hugely talented players (as much as that would be nice)! but we do expect to turn up each week and see a well drilled, organised team that will give everything, be hard to beat and will fight for the cause. That way we turn up at every game knowing we have very chance of comeing away with something.. its the constantrolling over and allowing us to get beaten that is paining me the most!
A proper manager, DOF (one who can work quietly in the background ala Les Reed rather than someone with a big personality who will undermine the manager) a chief scout with his own scouting network.
Oh and complete honesty on all matters.... ticket office open as before and no bloody NHS call centre..
There is probably more but that's off the top of my head!
However none of this will ever happen. Roland is like Thatcher (this lady is not for turning) hopefully like her it will prove to be his downfall as he takes on one battle to many and the uproar of the Charlton fans cause him to leave. Hopefully he won't last as long as she did!
I nearly said "If Roland sacked Katrien and made a public apology on her behalf, acknowledging how she's treated the loyal supporters then I would reconsider and be open to giving him 6 months to demonstrate he can do better." - but actually that's never going to happen, and more to the point - would actually be grossly unfair on Katrien (shockhorror.) who I think has largely been a pawn in the whole affair. Albeit a pawn with an inflated sense of worth.