[cite]Posted By: bingaddick[/cite]I'm in the "Len" camp on this one. I still find it hard when watching Curbs with his slightly hounded look, to think of him other than our manager. Am I weird? Probably but when somebody did for our club what that man did week in week out, year in year out for 15 plus years; when he spend night ,after night, after night travelling across the country and into Europe trying to dig the valued gems to enhance our squad, I WILL NEVER LOOK UPON HIM WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN TOTAL RESPECT AND AFFECTION.
That he has gone back to his "roots" is fine. I have two adopted children, they have two families, the ours and their birth one. Their past is part of them and what makes them special. When they are old enough, they may want to contact their birth family. I don't despise them for that, it's part of their life and I will encourage then and support them if they want to do this. So for me it is the same with Curbs. He's a Hamsters boy, I don't begrudge him for one second wanting to be the Hamsters manager. We are rivals now and that is perfectly fine. I wanted us to stay up, if necessary at West Hams expense. I wanted us to stuff West Ham in February. Pards is our manager now and I give him my total support in that role.
Curbs is still one of our family though and a legend here. For me that will never change.
Great post.....I have no doubt in my mind that Curbs would have kept us up...he probably would have stayed if they promised him 12 million to spend at the start of the season. He is a true legend and will be held in the highest esteem by most Charlton fans esepcially after this painful season.....
Great post.....I have no doubt in my mind that Curbs would have kept us up...he probably would have stayed if they promised him 12 million to spend at the start of the season. He is a true legend and will be held in the highest esteem by most Charlton fans esepcially after this painful season.....[/quote]
Legend, yes. I don't think he would have neccesarily kept us up though. The squad was poor and there would have been a lot of uncertainty around as to whether he was staying or going at the end of the season.
He would have kept us up because he knew how to grind out results with a limited squad which is basically all we could have asked for a club our size. People have complained about the footbal served up but the start of the previous season, when Murphy was playing well, we were brilliant....the fact that he fell out with Murphy is what messed up that season...Personally I could handle the results driven performances and every now and then beat Arsenal away 4-2...Spurs away 3-0...Chelsea at home 4-1...I loved that when I could gloat with my mates over here but sadly no more.
We will never know if he would have kept us up or not.
However, look at our finishing positions over the last 3 seasons (basically since our 7th position the season Parker left) and you will see that we have been heading steadily downwards ever since. We got 47 points in 05/06, 46 in 04/05 and 53 in 03/04.
I think that start to the 2005/06 season was very misleading (when we won five of our first six games against Sunderland, Wigan, Boro, Brum and West Brom) because we beat three relegated sides plus Wigan who were finding their feet. We were crap for the rest of the season and, yes, we ground out some wins but you can't keep doing that forever because at some point your luck will run out.
My biggest gripe is that we had a better team in our first Premiership season in 2000/01 than when Curbs left in 2005/06.
[cite]Posted By: LenGlover[/cite]I know many on here want to rewrite history and deny the tremendous job he did for Charlton but it cannot be denied that he has galvanised a dispirited, disorganised West Ham side and saved their Premiership status.
He has now indisputably proved what a great manager he is. Sadly it is at our expense.
A good manager he may be but he overstayed his welcome with us as far as I'm concerned. He should have gone at least 2 seasons ago.
To talk of allowing him to see out his contract with us is ridiculous. What would he have done in the last season that he hadn't done in the previous 2? What players would have come to us when the manager has already said that he would be off at the end of the season? And looking at his poor signings for west ham, what would he have done with the money anyway?
Between them, Murray and Curbishley allowed the club to drift into a total comfort zone with 40 points being our only target each year. Once that happened it filtered through the club and the rot really set in.
No-one should forget the fantastic job Curbishley did for us but there is nothing to suggest that he could have turned it round. We've looked like Relegation candidates for quite a while and anyone that thinks it would have been any different had Curbishley stayed really needs to take off the "Curbs tinted glasses"
Agree with some of the above but very harsh to blame Murray. He gave Curbs most of the Parker money but it was all wasted on Rommedahl, Murphy and Jeffers, all of whom were crap and from the 8 million we spent on them we recouped 1.5 million for Murphy after 60 games.
That was the pivotal moment for the club, to see if we could recover from losing Parker but we never did. Curbs tried to cover him with Holland and Kish but they were not good enough and I just find it so frustrating that we never got someone like Sidwell in BEFORE he went to Reading because he could have been the difference.
This season is vastly superior to the previous two seasons of painful dullness, as Deano says Curbs was on auto-pilot for the last few years - he needed a new challenge too ... I don't care whether he'dve got us 23, 33 or 43 points - the only point is that he had stayed too long.
Supporting Charlton is fun again - give me a rollercoaster over a roundabout any day. We, the fans, have rediscovered ourselves this season and I am happy to be where we are.
We will never know but I think its fair to say that he had some idea that the writing was on the wall.
Look at the squad he left us with and take out Carson, Diawara, Reid, Faye, ZZ, Song, Thatcher from the new signings and what does that leave you with?
We would have had something like this side playing....
Myhre/Andersen Young - Fortune - Perry - Herman Romm - Holland - Kish - Thomas Bent - Bent
Not exactly an awe inspiring bunch are they? Sure, he might have signed a couple of players (probably including Traore, JFH and Faye) and MIGHT have sneaked a couple more 1-0 wins but we would have been still right down in the dogfight.
Plus, don't forget the constant speculation that we would have had about whether he was staying or going and what would he have done when West Ham came knocking after sacking Pards?
Things have been on the slide since Parker left and Curbs did not get it right in fixing it up and I just don't buy the line of thought that says we would have stayed up if he had stayed. West Ham have stayed up because of a HUGE amount of luck in getting 6 points from Arsenal and Blackburn and because they have a world-class player in Tevez not because Curbs is their manager.
[cite]Posted By: Ormiston Addick[/cite]Agree with some of the above but very harsh to blame Murray. He gave Curbs most of the Parker money but it was all wasted on Rommedahl, Murphy and Jeffers, all of whom were crap and from the 8 million we spent on them we recouped 1.5 million for Murphy after 60 games.
That was the pivotal moment for the club, to see if we could recover from losing Parker but we never did. Curbs tried to cover him with Holland and Kish but they were not good enough and I just find it so frustrating that we never got someone like Sidwell in BEFORE he went to Reading because he could have been the difference.
I'm not saying that Murray didn't back Curbishley but he as much as anyone allowed the comfort zone to develop in that there was no pressure for results.
My view is that we gave up ambition for safety, and what we ended up with was stagnation.
Yeah, fair point although, in Murray's defence, the step between us and the next level would have meant a huge investment.
Also, and this will always be a problem, the top players just don't want to come to Charlton. Murphy came and went, Beattie would not come and there have doubtless been others who would not come either.
I think Deano's comment about Curbs being on auto-pilot was telling and perhaps the real problem here is that there was never a "succession plan" in place for Curbs, although that is obviously more difficult to do in football than in the corporate world.
I find all of this "we would've been here or here with Curbs" talk pretty pointless really. No more pointless than some of my own posts, granted, but pointless all the same.
It's not about the past or "what might have been", it's about the future now.
I am with MCS and Large: The days of him being a legend are gone. Tho I'll never forget what he achieved, I'll never forget what happened in his last 2 years, either.. And the comments such as "We didn't need the free coaches - we're a huge club" etc etc are pathetic. I actually can't stand the bloke now.
Although it wouldn't do us any favours, I'd LOVE for them to go down Sunday (though there's no way in the world they will).
I just wanna know whether to put my money on a draw or Wet Sham win at Old Trafford, cos there's money to be made!!
must admit. tho its been hard going this season, i think the blow has been softened by having pardew at the helm encouraging and giving us some hope, at the same time as being realistic!
relegation hasn't been a shock, but can't say i feel like its a disaster either, and can't help feeling its like that cos of pards...dunno why!
curbs (he's still curbs - dunno why) would have just shook his head, said some old cliche and said something about luck going against ya
[cite]Posted By: suzisausage[/cite]must admit. tho its been hard going this season, i think the blow has been softened by having pardew at the helm encouraging and giving us some hope, at the same time as being realistic!
relegation hasn't been a shock, but can't say i feel like its a disaster either, and can't help feeling its like that cos of pards...dunno why!
curbs (he's still curbs - dunno why) would have just shook his head, said some old cliche and said something about luck going against ya
Comments
I respect the job he done for us, but we're rivals now.
At least when we come back up ;-)
The only reason Tevez is doing so well is because he can't understand the instructions about getting back and defending.
Tevez will be off in the summer anyway.
Great post.....I have no doubt in my mind that Curbs would have kept us up...he probably would have stayed if they promised him 12 million to spend at the start of the season. He is a true legend and will be held in the highest esteem by most Charlton fans esepcially after this painful season.....
Great post.....I have no doubt in my mind that Curbs would have kept us up...he probably would have stayed if they promised him 12 million to spend at the start of the season. He is a true legend and will be held in the highest esteem by most Charlton fans esepcially after this painful season.....[/quote]
Legend, yes. I don't think he would have neccesarily kept us up though. The squad was poor and there would have been a lot of uncertainty around as to whether he was staying or going at the end of the season.
However, look at our finishing positions over the last 3 seasons (basically since our 7th position the season Parker left) and you will see that we have been heading steadily downwards ever since. We got 47 points in 05/06, 46 in 04/05 and 53 in 03/04.
I think that start to the 2005/06 season was very misleading (when we won five of our first six games against Sunderland, Wigan, Boro, Brum and West Brom) because we beat three relegated sides plus Wigan who were finding their feet. We were crap for the rest of the season and, yes, we ground out some wins but you can't keep doing that forever because at some point your luck will run out.
My biggest gripe is that we had a better team in our first Premiership season in 2000/01 than when Curbs left in 2005/06.
A good manager he may be but he overstayed his welcome with us as far as I'm concerned. He should have gone at least 2 seasons ago.
To talk of allowing him to see out his contract with us is ridiculous. What would he have done in the last season that he hadn't done in the previous 2? What players would have come to us when the manager has already said that he would be off at the end of the season? And looking at his poor signings for west ham, what would he have done with the money anyway?
Between them, Murray and Curbishley allowed the club to drift into a total comfort zone with 40 points being our only target each year. Once that happened it filtered through the club and the rot really set in.
No-one should forget the fantastic job Curbishley did for us but there is nothing to suggest that he could have turned it round. We've looked like Relegation candidates for quite a while and anyone that thinks it would have been any different had Curbishley stayed really needs to take off the "Curbs tinted glasses"
That was the pivotal moment for the club, to see if we could recover from losing Parker but we never did. Curbs tried to cover him with Holland and Kish but they were not good enough and I just find it so frustrating that we never got someone like Sidwell in BEFORE he went to Reading because he could have been the difference.
I don't care whether he'dve got us 23, 33 or 43 points - the only point is that he had stayed too long.
Supporting Charlton is fun again - give me a rollercoaster over a roundabout any day.
We, the fans, have rediscovered ourselves this season and I am happy to be where we are.
Look at the squad he left us with and take out Carson, Diawara, Reid, Faye, ZZ, Song, Thatcher from the new signings and what does that leave you with?
We would have had something like this side playing....
Myhre/Andersen
Young - Fortune - Perry - Herman
Romm - Holland - Kish - Thomas
Bent - Bent
Not exactly an awe inspiring bunch are they? Sure, he might have signed a couple of players (probably including Traore, JFH and Faye) and MIGHT have sneaked a couple more 1-0 wins but we would have been still right down in the dogfight.
Plus, don't forget the constant speculation that we would have had about whether he was staying or going and what would he have done when West Ham came knocking after sacking Pards?
Things have been on the slide since Parker left and Curbs did not get it right in fixing it up and I just don't buy the line of thought that says we would have stayed up if he had stayed. West Ham have stayed up because of a HUGE amount of luck in getting 6 points from Arsenal and Blackburn and because they have a world-class player in Tevez not because Curbs is their manager.
I'm not saying that Murray didn't back Curbishley but he as much as anyone allowed the comfort zone to develop in that there was no pressure for results.
My view is that we gave up ambition for safety, and what we ended up with was stagnation.
Also, and this will always be a problem, the top players just don't want to come to Charlton. Murphy came and went, Beattie would not come and there have doubtless been others who would not come either.
I think Deano's comment about Curbs being on auto-pilot was telling and perhaps the real problem here is that there was never a "succession plan" in place for Curbs, although that is obviously more difficult to do in football than in the corporate world.
I find all of this "we would've been here or here with Curbs" talk pretty pointless really. No more pointless than some of my own posts, granted, but pointless all the same.
It's not about the past or "what might have been", it's about the future now.
I am with LargeAddick
Although it wouldn't do us any favours, I'd LOVE for them to go down Sunday (though there's no way in the world they will).
I just wanna know whether to put my money on a draw or Wet Sham win at Old Trafford, cos there's money to be made!!
relegation hasn't been a shock, but can't say i feel like its a disaster either, and can't help feeling its like that cos of pards...dunno why!
curbs (he's still curbs - dunno why) would have just shook his head, said some old cliche and said something about luck going against ya
again suz, agreed.