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Jimenez/Cash sued over Greenwich Peninsula stadium development

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  • ''Also, there was no requirement for the deposit to be held by the solicitors until completion. Hard to believe isn’t it? That’s how good this deal is for the seller.”

    it does rather beg the question as to how RD has managed to be such a successful businessman.
  • msomerton said:

    So pretty much Roland saved the club, and is also not interested in land redevelopment as many on here thought he was, they often said it was the only reason he bought the club.

    Although he wasn't interested in the peninsular site, Slater's email dated 28.12.13 says that Duchâtelet was particularly interested in planning consents relating to the Valley
  • JamesSeed said:

    I will throw in my slightly surreal experience, which I have mentioned before, of meeting people behind a bid which came in too late. One part of the consortium was the German owner of Arenacom who build and operate stadia. Other people picked up on that name too, but I eventually got to meet the Arenacom guy in Prague, after RD deal had gone through. He was dangerously persuasive about a new stadium. But Arenacom didn't have the money nor the interest to buy the club alone. When the deal was presented to the spivs in November the moneyman was to be a Ukrainian oligarch exiled in London, allegedly friendly with Abramovic. But it was a late entrant, and the spivs were clearly getting edgy, as we can see from the Slater emails. And then the Maidan happened and the oligarch turned his attentions to home, he had previously been the owner of Metalist Charchiv, a big club in the east where he came from. So their bid lost traction, whereas RD came in with an offer which at least looked straightforward, his own money on the table.

    However it wasn't the end of the other lot. They had the idea that they could persuade RD to partner with them to move to a new stadium. They tried to discuss this with RD around the Sheffield Unified cup game, but RD wasn't interested. One reason might have been that the consortium's money man had changed from the Ukrainian to a British property developer, who coincidentally had links to Sheffield and had previously been involved in English football. It seems that these talks if successful could have resulted in an even bigger nightmare: a combination of RD's ridiculous version of a network club, and the process of moving the club to the Pen. Fortunately for us, RD was having none of it. For that at least we can be grateful, although I am not under any illusions that RD brushed them away for any highminded reasons.

    I am not sure, it depends on timing, but I think it was this lot who spoke to the council ( as Airman's report refers to) about the feasibility of the move to the Pen. What I can say for sure is that in March 2015, after RD had done the deal, this lot were convinced that moving Charlton to the Pen was something that Greenwich Council were prepared and able to countenance. And that is the main reason why I throw this episode back in the mix.

    I think The Valley fitted into his scheme of wanting to create a community hub where people could meet for a chat and a nice dance after the game. He's an nightmarish oddball, rather than an asset stripper. It's quite possible that his awful ownership may at least have prevented a move from the spiritual home.
    I doubt it to be honest, because any peninsula deal was a long way from being done. There’s no evidence presented it was on the table, just that the prospect of it was being held out as a lure. If it was real, why didn’t others snap it up before RD arrived?

  • JamesSeed said:

    I will throw in my slightly surreal experience, which I have mentioned before, of meeting people behind a bid which came in too late. One part of the consortium was the German owner of Arenacom who build and operate stadia. Other people picked up on that name too, but I eventually got to meet the Arenacom guy in Prague, after RD deal had gone through. He was dangerously persuasive about a new stadium. But Arenacom didn't have the money nor the interest to buy the club alone. When the deal was presented to the spivs in November the moneyman was to be a Ukrainian oligarch exiled in London, allegedly friendly with Abramovic. But it was a late entrant, and the spivs were clearly getting edgy, as we can see from the Slater emails. And then the Maidan happened and the oligarch turned his attentions to home, he had previously been the owner of Metalist Charchiv, a big club in the east where he came from. So their bid lost traction, whereas RD came in with an offer which at least looked straightforward, his own money on the table.

    However it wasn't the end of the other lot. They had the idea that they could persuade RD to partner with them to move to a new stadium. They tried to discuss this with RD around the Sheffield Unified cup game, but RD wasn't interested. One reason might have been that the consortium's money man had changed from the Ukrainian to a British property developer, who coincidentally had links to Sheffield and had previously been involved in English football. It seems that these talks if successful could have resulted in an even bigger nightmare: a combination of RD's ridiculous version of a network club, and the process of moving the club to the Pen. Fortunately for us, RD was having none of it. For that at least we can be grateful, although I am not under any illusions that RD brushed them away for any highminded reasons.

    I am not sure, it depends on timing, but I think it was this lot who spoke to the council ( as Airman's report refers to) about the feasibility of the move to the Pen. What I can say for sure is that in March 2015, after RD had done the deal, this lot were convinced that moving Charlton to the Pen was something that Greenwich Council were prepared and able to countenance. And that is the main reason why I throw this episode back in the mix.

    I think The Valley fitted into his scheme of wanting to create a community hub where people could meet for a chat and a nice dance after the game. He's an nightmarish oddball, rather than an asset stripper. It's quite possible that his awful ownership may at least have prevented a move from the spiritual home.
    He's that as well.
  • edited December 2017
    For academic interest (although you never say never in this world) the Ukrainian oligarch is Oleksandr Yaroslavsky. I subsequently got to know the brave Ukrainian activists who set up their FOI site, linked to a relatively independent newspaper, and when I asked about Yaroslavsky, one of them said "OK he's one of the "better" ones". What neither Wikipedia nor this glowing article is why he was living in London at the time of the RD takeover. I was told that he felt threatened by the Yanukovic regime, and indeed had lost control of Metalist Kharkiv because of that regime. So when Maidan overthrew Yanukovic, he went back home to deal with unfinished business.

    Overall, while I am wary of owners from this part of the world, I get the impression that he might not have been a bad one so long as he remained in London. After all the Russian at Bournemouth has done a great job for them. Although buried in the Wikipedia page is his estimated net worth which infact seems to be around the same as RD's. But then again, we can get over obsessed with those figures.
  • Reading that Judgement, I’m surprised John Grisham hasn’t picked it up as the storyline for his next novel
  • The plan for CAFC at the bit by the blackwall was in place before those 2
  • The plan for CAFC at the bit by the blackwall was in place before those 2

    "Plan" suggests something concrete. Don't you mean "possibility"? And that in the sense that the Council would have been OK with it? Or something more concrete?

  • edited December 2017

    The plan for CAFC at the bit by the blackwall was in place before those 2

    The potential to move to the peninsula was used to find a buyer in 2010. That is common ground. Nobody disputes it. The question is whether it was deliverable and to an extent what the buyer’s motivation was, ie what part did football play in it?

    There is and was a huge gap between the plan and its delivery because Charlton never owned the land and the land never had planning consent. It was a high stakes game for anyone to play, but what was the alternative in 2010? I can plan to fly to the moon but if I don’t have a rocket I won’t get there.
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  • The plan for CAFC at the bit by the blackwall was in place before those 2

    "Plan" suggests something concrete. Don't you mean "possibility"? And that in the sense that the Council would have been OK with it? Or something more concrete?

    I definitely think it was a carrot hung out when these two were buying the club.
  • The plan for CAFC at the bit by the blackwall was in place before those 2

    "Plan" suggests something concrete. Don't you mean "possibility"? And that in the sense that the Council would have been OK with it? Or something more concrete?

    I think you need to ask ex councillor Roberts .
  • The plan for CAFC at the bit by the blackwall was in place before those 2

    "Plan" suggests something concrete. Don't you mean "possibility"? And that in the sense that the Council would have been OK with it? Or something more concrete?

    I think you need to ask ex councillor Roberts .
    Oh sure, that's indeed why we needed to, and still need to, keep a very beady eye on Greenwich Council. But overall I think @Airman Brown reply above nails it. I think Greenwich wanted to and may still want to move us from the Valley, but it requires an owner to make it happen, and then there are still many obstacles.

  • ''Also, there was no requirement for the deposit to be held by the solicitors until completion. Hard to believe isn’t it? That’s how good this deal is for the seller.”

    it does rather beg the question as to how RD has managed to be such a successful businessman.

    I think because primarily he was an engineer. It's quite understandable that he could make lots of money within his chosen sphere because he'd have had a good understanding of what his customers wanted and exactly what needed to be done to satisfy them. He could stick to the technical aspects and have other people manage the business practicalities for him. That doesn't give him a transferrable skill set though. Take him out of his native electronics environment and he is just like a fish out of water. Flapping around desperately hoping to get some oxygen in his gills, but making a hash of everything.
  • ''Also, there was no requirement for the deposit to be held by the solicitors until completion. Hard to believe isn’t it? That’s how good this deal is for the seller.”

    it does rather beg the question as to how RD has managed to be such a successful businessman.

    Not really got the club on the cheap so the matter of the deposit probably wasn't a big deal for him - he was going to pay it anyway. I also wouldn't read into any disinterest of Duchatelet in knock-on deals with the Spivs or anyone else. As a standalone billionaire (or thereabouts), why complicate or risk your business investments with third parties when you don't need to?
  • The judge's decision should be interesting and Mike Ashley will probably be downing an extra 20 pints in anticipation of an even larger win against the former Greenwich Council employee. Spanish Tony's reputation is already in tatters and it is going to look deadly worse next year. What price on him going bankrupt?
  • Investigate away chaps but it was a plan
  • ''Also, there was no requirement for the deposit to be held by the solicitors until completion. Hard to believe isn’t it? That’s how good this deal is for the seller.”

    it does rather beg the question as to how RD has managed to be such a successful businessman.

    Not really got the club on the cheap so the matter of the deposit probably wasn't a big deal for him - he was going to pay it anyway. I also wouldn't read into any disinterest of Duchatelet in knock-on deals with the Spivs or anyone else. As a standalone billionaire (or thereabouts), why complicate or risk your business investments with third parties when you don't need to?
    was he? until the deal is actually completed you can't be sure that it will actually be completed. The Spivs used those funds to prop up the Club and if the sale had fallen through then Roland would still be chasing them now for his money back. Bad business in my opinion.

  • _MrDick said:

    Reading that Judgement, I’m surprised John Grisham hasn’t picked it up as the storyline for his next novel

    Shhh! Airman's already drafted the preface to "Skin in the Game - the extraordinary history of CAFC, 2010-2014".
  • Investigate away chaps but it was a plan

    Thee have been a whole series of plans right back to 1988 and Mike Norris. So what? At no stage has the club ever been in a position to execute any of them.
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  • After wading through the whole sorry saga and not understanding everything , I've come to the conclusion that it would be madness to buy a second hand car from any of those mentioned in the case.

  • It is all a bit out of my comfort zone of understanding, but at first glance it looks as if it is fortunate Duchatelet bought us when he did. Indeed we are only getting the full story now, but when Duchatelet first arrived there was definitely a feeling of gratitude around. Until the early transfer dealings and Powell sacking, Riga release and weird player churn, began to get us worried.
    So my thoughts are was Duchatelet the only game in town at that time? It looks like he was the one that Slater and Jimenez grabbed at, but my 'what if' gene wonders if we were of interest to anybody else at that time. And if we were, would that represent some latent interest?
  • seth plum said:

    It is all a bit out of my comfort zone of understanding, but at first glance it looks as if it is fortunate Duchatelet bought us when he did. Indeed we are only getting the full story now, but when Duchatelet first arrived there was definitely a feeling of gratitude around. Until the early transfer dealings and Powell sacking, Riga release and weird player churn, began to get us worried.
    So my thoughts are was Duchatelet the only game in town at that time? It looks like he was the one that Slater and Jimenez grabbed at, but my 'what if' gene wonders if we were of interest to anybody else at that time. And if we were, would that represent some latent interest?

    not surprised they grabbed at it seeing as he let them spend the deposit which they needed to as they had no other funding
  • Blackstone Investments total assets of $31bn. According to the file were close to taking us over.

    Are they the Uber owners ?
  • edited December 2017

    Blackstone Investments total assets of $31bn. According to the file were close to taking us over.

    Are they the Uber owners ?
    They're just another faceless private investment mob that like to lay out but not get too involved. Bit like the crowd that own Toys r us.
  • 'Murky' doesn't even begin to describe all these double dealings.....

    I just hope that next time we'll be lucky enough to get someone rich enough that they don't have to go around conning people or coming up with unworkable pie in the sky get rich quick schemes involving player farming to get by.....
  • Has that boat full of rubber docked at Tilbury yet?
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Roland Out!