Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
A fair enough post.
However I think things have gone too far now. All trust has been shattered and our CEO has very little credibility left.
Appointing Fraeye(however long he is here for) was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people.
Excuse my termonology but the Belgians are taking the p*** out of us.
Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
One of the best posts I have seen on here for some time and echo's my thought's entirely.
We all know that things have not gone smoothly since RD took us over, but he's still here and continually funding our losses. However people want to spin it, we were in deep shit with the spivs and almost certainly would have gone into administration without RD.
I think dialogue is the way forward and it appears that KM is now willing to engage. As above it made me cringe to see our so called fans giving wanker signs and shouting obscenities to KM. I would love to know how those people would feel if the same was done to their girlfriend/wife/sister/mum by a group of yobs in the street?
I can't believe some of the vitriol spouted on here over the past few weeks. I for one are glad to be one of the silent majority!
I take it you are on a wind up with the third paragraph.
It's a difficult balancing act. You can go in all snarly but you get the kind of defensive stuff displayed early on in the meeting. Or you can try to stick to a plan, calmly and politely, trying to relax them so you hopefully get an answer that's less guarded whilst asking questions that are fairly direct.
We aimed for the latter, but for various reasons didn't quite succeed - largely I feel because we never quite wrested the control of our agenda. The latter is why I took the mic back every now and again, to try to get our flow back, but I was very conscious the meeting shouldn't be dominated by one voice. I thought John C did a great job of holding onto the mic and as such his bit probably had the best flow of all of it. We also had to concede we weren't the only people in the room, and the others deserved to participate too. Even the club shop guy, even Syd.
Even so, whilst I know a number of people would have liked us to be more in their faces I do think our approach gave them no excuse not to give straight answers to straight questions and you can judge for yourselves whether they did that. A personal view is that whilst we may have missed some opportunity, that's an accusation that can absolutely be leveled at the club. Presented by a relentlessly calm and respectful group they might have considered it a perfect opportunity to open up a bit, change the nature of the dialogue.
A slight disappointment is that KM apparently expected a harder time, but then in some ways she was no doubt expecting some belligerence and rudeness, and points like the one Craig Norris made so well wouldn't have carried as much weight if the meeting was more tense or we'd been angry.
On the whole I think we got our approach right, we missed some opportunity to put a bit of pressure on, but we didn't miss all. They therefore had the rope with which to hang themselves, and got tangled a few times. We were well prepared, but as I say we never got control of the format and that did hamstring us a bit.
Perhaps an important outcome is that she is in no doubt now that the fan base she's so easily been able to divide can unite and it can be powerful. Just a small example perhaps , but I do wonder whether the greater threat to them lies in the protest or the quieter intelligent response. Both perhaps are needed, and perhaps this is a time for different groups to play to their strengths in different aspects of a common campaign to get the best for our great club.
We'd all need to leave our egos at the door though.
I don't take offence at all its a fair comment, but cafc success on the pitch was never why I solely attended matches to me it was more than that, we were not very good when I started to go and I really enjoyed going when we all expected little and often got little back,
Also I am not saying don't be angry ofcourse people have the right to be angry it's a personal thing football
I am saying don't react when angry as the end result will not be the right one, a calm focused fighter will win over an angry out of control fighter, you lose discipline and have no strategy when angry
Some are taking it too far, you could for example take the comment I would like to be 1 on 1 with her as a threat, do people really think that those comments towards a woman is acceptable
I think, Rikofold, you did get the balance of assertiveness right but was surprised that the regime wasnt challenged more forcefully about the constant change of managers. That might have been the time to enlist jj to say[if he dared] what effect that has on the players. Whilst all voices were of equal value i'm not sure that included syd who seemed like a decent old bloke you would avoid down the pub.The disability issue really is a matter for fans forum and whilst I had never heard about it before appeared very clear "if you cant do the stairs you cant sit at the top of the stand". I think you dealt well at the end with the fact that the protest was as a result of the shortcomings of the board and may well continue if things dont improve.
Didn't do Portsmouth many favours, and it's not just the club that suffers in an administration but all the people who lose their jobs, all the small businesses supplying the club, etc.
A few thoughts. I'm afraid I'm in the group that thinks after last night that nothing will change. The regime have made it fairly clear that RD paid for the club and he'll make decisions. Really, the idea of meaningfull dialogue just is'nt happening. I'm not digging CAST out on this, but I felt before the meeting, and still do now, that they are looking for something which won't happen. I don't know who the 'majority' of fans are, silent or otherwise, but I think most on here recognise that football fans are mostly just football fans, and want a successfull team. The thing about target 20,000 is just a red herring. The drifting fans have had years of rubbish football, and they'll mostly drift back if we get back to good football and decent results. No matter how many gimmicks you come up with, getting stuffed 3-0 at home by Preston will be a much more effective factor than a sofa or cheerleaders. The new manager (Carole) was the straw that broke my back, but if he gets a run of results, things will settle down, although with slightly less fans than before. KM and RM for me made a stand out cock up last night claiming the managers were the right choices, when most fans know full well that we would'nt have needed five of them if they were right. But if we had dialogue, what difference would it make. The highlight of fan representation, as far as I can tell, was the Premier league Murray era, but I bet he never ever asked the fans rep about a new manager, then (Dowie) or as we dropped through the leagues. Dialogue may well cure some ills at the Valley, but the bread and butter of football is results, these come from the manager and squad, and we're never going to be asked to choose either. Not under Murray, and certainly not under RD/KM. The best hope is that they realise their current ideas are a faliure, but I saw no sign of that last night.
The part where the quotes from KM are brought up shows how out of touch she is. She explains it all got lost in translation and was not what she said.
Now IF this is true, any CEO who had been quoted as slagging off a large number of their customers would have been immediately onto their own website and assuring those customers it was not true and here is what was meant/said
Like all issues recently they choose to say nothing to us but then get all annoyed about it when challenged. They don't need a new of Head if Comma, basic common sense would suffice
Out of curiosity for those who have watched the video, does it seem to you the way you imagined it was when following the tweets?
It's worse than the tweets. Having watched it all, they are on the defensive and treat us like we have given you all this and you stiĺl complain.
This is one of the most riduclous rows between club and owners in English football that I can think off. It's just so needless, it simply needs the club to stop talking to us as inconveniences and start talking sense
Yeah that didn't sit right with me. She said 1,000 new season tickets. Is that an overall increase or is that just new supporters that didn't have one before. Does that figure take into account those that didn't renew. I didn't renew my 3.
Alarmingly concerned that it appears that the strategy for break-even is effectively based upon two things coming together: - an approx 50% increase in home crowds - increased / higher value player sales
How the hell those two come together I really do not know
She did also refer to increased TV revenue. I wasn't aware a big increase is coming but she was pretty clear on that.
Thing is, everyone gets it so 1) there is no competitive advantage and 2) it is likely to flow straight through into the players' pockets. Not sure how useful it is likely to be in reducing the operating loss, therefore.
I'm still baffled by their approach to breaking even. I might be looking at it very simplistically, but surely breaking even will only be achieved getting to the promised land of the Prem. We're not an attractive enough proposition to suddenly double our attendance. Yes we have sold some decent youth players over the last 5 years or so if you look at Shelvey, Jenkinson and Gomez, but I make that 1 player every 2 years, and isn't this money the money being used to reinvest in the squad?
I agree with RM that it isn't healthy to 'eat money', but I just can't see this plan, as it's played out so far, getting RD a return. I'm not as up on the finances or understand it as much as others, but I seem to recall you (Airman) saying operating losses have gone up? If I've got that wrong forgive me, but the reason I'm raising it, is that unless we make a concerted effort to get in the Prem, he's going to be funding a club that continually loses X amount each year, which may be less if we get a Joe Gomez every few seasons.....
This season is already too late IMO. We'll be lucky to stay up being 16 games in and in the bottom 3. So presumably another financial loss this season, a few more untried and inadequate signings next summer. Possibly a new manager, possibly someone we've never heard of, potentially managing in the Belgian Subutteo nostalgia league that cuts Roland's grass. And if we're lucky another meeting with KM and RM to open up a dialogue with us about what their vision is for the club
Yes, I know people have genuine grievances, but there is currently something distinctly unsavoury about this BB and indeed others. Add to that the embarrassment I felt watching and listening to protesters on Saturday. No problems with "Roland Out", "Miere Out", but when it dropped to gutter level with references to where one might stick the sofa I thought "I'm Off". Add to that the overtly racist anti-Belgian chants and I thought this lot are losing the plot. It had hints of a lynch mob. I've been through thick and thin (more thin than thick, I might add) with Charlton, having followed them loyally for 52 years at all three of their home grounds and I have actively fought many just causes on the fans' behalf, but somehow, the behaviour I witnessed on Saturday, and what I am seeing repeated on many BBs, doesn't quite square with reality. Yes, communications have been poor. No, I don't think Katrien is guilty of deliberately lying, just guilty of being the proverbial "meat in the sandwich". I'm sure Roland has undermined her on more than one occasion and will do so again. I don't think it matters one iota whether it's Katrien or a Varney who is the CEO, ultimately the power resides across the water. For her own peace of mind she may well walk, but her successor will be similarly neutered. Ultimately discontent correlates with results on the pitch. Go on a winning run and play excellent football (which for the first time this season we did on Saturday) and discontent simply evaporates. Return to losing ways and the clamour will return and intensify. All well and good, but where is the Plan B for the board's detractors? Who is going to take over and why? It's my understanding that buyers are currently few and far between at the moment (there are several clubs up for sale, many of which are more attractive than Charlton), so it might be a long time before Roland is dislodged. For all of his faults (and there are many) he has at least kept the club afloat and for that alone I'm grateful, having seen us first hand flirt with extinction in the High Court (saved with 30 minutes to go). I'm sure my views will go down like a lead balloon with many of you, but at least I know I'm not alone in thinking this way. Call us the "silent majority".
One of the best posts I have seen on here for some time and echo's my thought's entirely.
We all know that things have not gone smoothly since RD took us over, but he's still here and continually funding our losses. However people want to spin it, we were in deep shit with the spivs and almost certainly would have gone into administration without RD.
I think dialogue is the way forward and it appears that KM is now willing to engage. As above it made me cringe to see our so called fans giving wanker signs and shouting obscenities to KM. I would love to know how those people would feel if the same was done to their girlfriend/wife/sister/mum by a group of yobs in the street?
I can't believe some of the vitriol spouted on here over the past few weeks. I for one are glad to be one of the silent majority!
I take it you are on a wind up with the third paragraph.
Alarmingly concerned that it appears that the strategy for break-even is effectively based upon two things coming together: - an approx 50% increase in home crowds - increased / higher value player sales
How the hell those two come together I really do not know
And perhaps those are the kind of things we need to focus on from here? Trying to turn the intangible discontent/ unrest into some tangible areas to challenge and address?
It's been said before - all very well knowing what the strategy is, but what if we don't like it/ believe it is doomed to failure?
Agree. She has spelt the objective out in black and white. Break even with player sales covering net cost. Business plan is to reduce that net cost eg by attracting new fans, and to enhance the value of players before sale and grow sales in the academy. Nothing at all about winning football matches. So the black and white campaign has served its purpose in getting a clear stear on Roland's objective. So what next?
I'd rather gone into administration. At least I'd have the Charlton I love back. Never been disconnected from my club
If we had gone into administration, we may not have had a Charlton to get back!
Obviously I wouldn't of wanted us to go in to admin but how many teams actually fold after going into administration ?
Didn't do palace or Southampton any harm. They became more attractive club to buy
Yes and Charlton fans are first to remind Palace fans that they went into admin and didn't pay all the local businesses who obviously suffered at the hands of Palace then being brought out cheaply!
Amazed that the new comms manager is not going to be in place till February? Having agreed that communication or the lack of it was one of the issues going forward, I would have thought that was a major issue. This should have been an immediate priority when KM came to the club, especially when Matt Wright and Jimmy Stone left. In fact Jimmy reminded me on Saturday that he Matt was not here when Roland came...... Why has this been allowed to drag on for so long.? Frankly astonished that Ollie can do so much as he does. Even Km remarked on it in the video.
Watched the meeting on the ipad last night even my Mrs who has no interest or clue about football/charlton commented that KM is crap and never actually really answers the question.
Confession time. Even I found myself watching the video on You Tube last night after reading this thread with interest and keeping an eye on all the sh*t that is going on.
How on earth is she a CEO? I'll tell you what, I promise never to moan about Levy again. Jeez, I'm sorry that your club is being run by a proper bunch of cockwombles.
At the time of the takeover, I hoped like you all that it would give you a new lease of life. Part of me feels I should be joining CAST and joining the next protest.
Amazed that the new comms manager is not going to be in place till February? Having agreed that communication or the lack of it was one of the issues going forward, I would have thought that was a major issue. This should have been an immediate priority when KM came to the club, especially when Matt Wright and Jimmy Stone left. In fact Jimmy reminded me on Saturday that he Matt was not here when Roland came...... Why has this been allowed to drag on for so long.? Frankly astonished that Ollie can do so much as he does. Even Km remarked on it in the video.
Agree with those who feel uneasy with the personal abuse aimed at KM (who I wish would leave immediately as she is clearly unfit for purpose) and hope that future protests, while vociferous, to not descend into sexist/racist name calling. All that does is lose us the moral high ground and allow KM to play the sympathy / sexist card
In my view the reason the questioning wasnt as strong as it could have been was due the deliberate divide and rule strategy of structuring the meeting the way it was, watering down with randoms, adding the fans forum which is 99% concerned with operational issues like VE, potholes, tickets etc to divert from the bigger strategic questions. Altho i think they still did a reasonable job despite that.
@cafctom The stuff about Valley Express etc was covered because each supporters club rep emailed their members to ask them what they wanted to ask. Obviously a lot of the EKA members use this so hence there was a tonnes of complaints about it and disabled access and the point generally being made how hopeless the organization of the club is.
Anyway the way forward I believe is those that want to seek further conversation with the Board do and those that want to protest do. And make sure the protests get louder and louder, as it clearly rattled them. Perhaps leaving aside hand gestures as you look a bit of a nob doing that.
That's my view anyway. Something will hopefully change.
Comments
However I think things have gone too far now. All trust has been shattered and our CEO has very little credibility left.
Appointing Fraeye(however long he is here for) was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people.
Excuse my termonology but the Belgians are taking the p*** out of us.
That would sort the woman out.
We aimed for the latter, but for various reasons didn't quite succeed - largely I feel because we never quite wrested the control of our agenda. The latter is why I took the mic back every now and again, to try to get our flow back, but I was very conscious the meeting shouldn't be dominated by one voice. I thought John C did a great job of holding onto the mic and as such his bit probably had the best flow of all of it. We also had to concede we weren't the only people in the room, and the others deserved to participate too. Even the club shop guy, even Syd.
Even so, whilst I know a number of people would have liked us to be more in their faces I do think our approach gave them no excuse not to give straight answers to straight questions and you can judge for yourselves whether they did that. A personal view is that whilst we may have missed some opportunity, that's an accusation that can absolutely be leveled at the club. Presented by a relentlessly calm and respectful group they might have considered it a perfect opportunity to open up a bit, change the nature of the dialogue.
A slight disappointment is that KM apparently expected a harder time, but then in some ways she was no doubt expecting some belligerence and rudeness, and points like the one Craig Norris made so well wouldn't have carried as much weight if the meeting was more tense or we'd been angry.
On the whole I think we got our approach right, we missed some opportunity to put a bit of pressure on, but we didn't miss all. They therefore had the rope with which to hang themselves, and got tangled a few times. We were well prepared, but as I say we never got control of the format and that did hamstring us a bit.
Perhaps an important outcome is that she is in no doubt now that the fan base she's so easily been able to divide can unite and it can be powerful. Just a small example perhaps , but I do wonder whether the greater threat to them lies in the protest or the quieter intelligent response. Both perhaps are needed, and perhaps this is a time for different groups to play to their strengths in different aspects of a common campaign to get the best for our great club.
We'd all need to leave our egos at the door though.
I don't take offence at all its a fair comment, but cafc success on the pitch was never why I solely attended matches to me it was more than that, we were not very good when I started to go and I really enjoyed going when we all expected little and often got little back,
Also I am not saying don't be angry ofcourse people have the right to be angry it's a personal thing football
I am saying don't react when angry as the end result will not be the right one, a calm focused fighter will win over an angry out of control fighter, you lose discipline and have no strategy when angry
Some are taking it too far, you could for example take the comment I would like to be 1 on 1 with her as a threat, do people really think that those comments towards a woman is acceptable
Whilst all voices were of equal value i'm not sure that included syd who seemed like a decent old bloke you would avoid down the pub.The disability issue really is a matter for fans forum and whilst I had never heard about it before appeared very clear "if you cant do the stairs you cant sit at the top of the stand".
I think you dealt well at the end with the fact that the protest was as a result of the shortcomings of the board and may well continue if things dont improve.
Didn't do palace or Southampton any harm. They became more attractive club to buy
The new manager (Carole) was the straw that broke my back, but if he gets a run of results, things will settle down, although with slightly less fans than before. KM and RM for me made a stand out cock up last night claiming the managers were the right choices, when most fans know full well that we would'nt have needed five of them if they were right. But if we had dialogue, what difference would it make. The highlight of fan representation, as far as I can tell, was the Premier league Murray era, but I bet he never ever asked the fans rep about a new manager, then (Dowie) or as we dropped through the leagues. Dialogue may well cure some ills at the Valley, but the bread and butter of football is results, these come from the manager and squad, and we're never going to be asked to choose either. Not under Murray, and certainly not under RD/KM. The best hope is that they realise their current ideas are a faliure, but I saw no sign of that last night.
Now IF this is true, any CEO who had been quoted as slagging off a large number of their customers would have been immediately onto their own website and assuring those customers it was not true and here is what was meant/said
Like all issues recently they choose to say nothing to us but then get all annoyed about it when challenged. They don't need a new of Head if Comma, basic common sense would suffice
This is one of the most riduclous rows between club and owners in English football that I can think off. It's just so needless, it simply needs the club to stop talking to us as inconveniences and start talking sense
She says it's been improvement on last season, season ticket sales.
Find that very hard to believe but I'm not the one with the facts and figures.
I agree with RM that it isn't healthy to 'eat money', but I just can't see this plan, as it's played out so far, getting RD a return. I'm not as up on the finances or understand it as much as others, but I seem to recall you (Airman) saying operating losses have gone up? If I've got that wrong forgive me, but the reason I'm raising it, is that unless we make a concerted effort to get in the Prem, he's going to be funding a club that continually loses X amount each year, which may be less if we get a Joe Gomez every few seasons.....
This season is already too late IMO. We'll be lucky to stay up being 16 games in and in the bottom 3. So presumably another financial loss this season, a few more untried and inadequate signings next summer. Possibly a new manager, possibly someone we've never heard of, potentially managing in the Belgian Subutteo nostalgia league that cuts Roland's grass. And if we're lucky another meeting with KM and RM to open up a dialogue with us about what their vision is for the club
I take it you condone those actions then?
Having agreed that communication or the lack of it was one of the issues going forward, I would have thought that
was a major issue. This should have been an immediate priority when KM came to the club, especially when Matt Wright and Jimmy Stone left.
In fact Jimmy reminded me on Saturday that he Matt was not here when Roland came...... Why has this been allowed to drag on for so long.?
Frankly astonished that Ollie can do so much as he does. Even Km remarked on it in the video.
How on earth is she a CEO? I'll tell you what, I promise never to moan about Levy again. Jeez, I'm sorry that your club is being run by a proper bunch of cockwombles.
At the time of the takeover, I hoped like you all that it would give you a new lease of life. Part of me feels I should be joining CAST and joining the next protest.
Perhaps they should get an interim in.....
I don't doubt that Murray used this as a selling point to Roland when he enquired about buying us.
Wages up 40%.
£9m spent on players.
Each manager an improvement of the previous one.
Wheeling out Jacko to deflect the blast.
I think we all know the Belgian "strategy" by now = "It's my money and I will do what I like with CAFC"
The only other thing that came across to me, is that they DON'T want anymore car park protests.
Anyway the way forward I believe is those that want to seek further conversation with the Board do and those that want to protest do. And make sure the protests get louder and louder, as it clearly rattled them. Perhaps leaving aside hand gestures as you look a bit of a nob doing that.
That's my view anyway. Something will hopefully change.