You are on the weakest ground telling an owner what he should be spending. No owner will say here's my chequebook, write the numbers in and I will sign the cheques.
All sorts of reasons can be given for not spending that you don't have the facts to challenge, and that will end the debate. It's got to be about HOW money is spent, HOW the squad is managed, HOW decisions are made and HOW they intend to build/keep the fan base in the absence of promotion.
So much money has been wasted over the last 2 years on poor transfers, I'd be asking questions on who is choosing our signings, especially with Phil Chapple leaving.
You are on the weakest ground telling an owner what he should be spending. No owner will say here's my chequebook, write the numbers in and I will sign the cheques.
All sorts of reasons can be given for not spending that you don't have the facts to challenge, and that will end the debate. It's got to be about HOW money is spent, HOW the squad is managed, HOW decisions are made and HOW they intend to build/keep the fan base in the absence of promotion.
So much money has been wasted over the last 2 years on poor transfers, I'd be asking questions on who is choosing our signings, especially with Phil Chapple leaving.
And / or if Phil Chappel wad responsible fir the poor signings
Hopefully it will be just the CEO and Murray tomorrow evening and they don't pull the same stunt by bringing along players and other members of staff to deflect the difficult questions away from the pair we would like answers from.
I wish all the supporters who are there tomorrow luck but I expect very little to come of this. It's a cherry-picked, well-scripted event, Saturday's result will offer them a stud to hide behind and I feel they will draw as much of the focus to the results, deflecting away from the serious long-term concerns about the future of the club and the way it's run. RM will indeed serve a shield for KM and will use his history with the club to draw as much fierce criticism away as possible. I don't trust either of them anymore and I don't expect it to be filmed like last time, we will get an edited transcript.
A great question would be for someone to print off the general survey and wave it in their faces. It's virtually the same as the one before the last fans forum citing the same problems.
Who's the compere for this fine event? Do we know where it's being held as well or is that also shrouded in secrecy? And, will there be refreshments. I would want to know, I for one struggle to swallow b****hit without a cup of tetley to wash it down with.
RM will indeed serve a shield for KM and will use his history with the club to draw as much fierce criticism away as possible. I don't trust either of them anymore and I don't expect it to be filmed like last time, we will get an edited transcript.
My feelings.
Both of them have history of not telling the truth to direct questions by fans. I fear tomorrow will be no different.
I just hope they don't lump poor Mick Everett with the job of compering the event.
I think it's important to try and make the meeting constructive.
If the first questioner just slags off KM and RD, and says they should "go away" asap, then the meeting will go nowhere. Until RD gets a good offer, he won't be selling, so we need to persuade them to do things a bit differently in the mean time.
Spot on.
Yes, this this and this again. There is no point in doing anything other than allowing the club to have their say. It needs to be a meeting that is driven by mutual respect so that the club and particularly Katrienfeels comfortable enough to be able to trust supporters with what she needs to say.
Becoming unnecessarily adversarial will be counter-productive, but I had opportunity today to make clear to Katrien that we the fans have got ourselves organised in order that the best opportunity for a dialogue is available to all, and that we expect the club to play their part in that. What we will be asking will be direct and to the point, but will give opportunity for the club to communicate with us.
I think realistically we also probably need to accept that we may need to exhibit a little patience as RM and particularly KM may need to overcome some initial nervousness and defensiveness in light of the weekend's protests. That doesn't mean letting them off the hook, but being forbearing with our objectives for outcomes from the meeting to the fore.
KM must not be allowed to hide behind Saturday's protests. It was the supporters showing how much they care, why can't the club embrace this instead of having KM treat us as the enemy.
If KM does hide behind the protests, simply ask why (before the protests) she has gone to ground since sacking the 4th Manager in this ownership, appointed a 5th but feels it's is ok for a CEO to say NOTHING.
All attendees should not be on the back foot irrespective what self indulgent nonsense may come from those at the club. We are suffering more by their actions than they are suffering from ours.
As was stated at the Woolwich meeting, the supporters have not run out on the club, the club has run out on us.
RM: I say Roly old chap how the devil are you? RD: OK Why? RM: Listen, this meeting tomorrow with me and Katrien v the jolly old Charlton mob - any chance of a bit of support? I mean I’m not asking for you to make a personal appearance or anything, but maybe you could appear by a video link up ... sort of thing ... (silence) … Roland? RD: (deep sigh) Why would I trouble to do that when I have already employed Katrien to act as my eyes and ears to do that task? Oh by the way Richard you are the club ambassador you have been issued with a template - stick to that eh? You’re usually pretty good at … what is it you English say, spinning the Doctor - Doctoring the spin eh? RM: Oh yes Roly, I can do that Roly, you know I can do that, but just give me something. Look I’ve heard that Yann the man isn’t too busy at the moment. Can we get him in on a short term loan? It’ll pretty much stop the tide of hatred against us … RD: Hatred? What is this hatred? RM: Oh I forgot Roland you don’t get emotion do you? Hatred is a kind of vehicle that the Charlton supporters are driving against us because of your total lack of empathy to all things Charlton. RD: (finger tapping noises) Empathy? RM: Oh never mind Roly. I’ll tell them that we’re making enquiries about Yann and looking to interview some English managers in the near future. RD: (clapping noise) I knew you could spin the doctor Richard. Oh give my regards to Katrien Richard and tell her I look forward to the photos. RM: Photos? RD: Yes she has some of the fans - they came round to the car park on Saturday especially to chant my name. Katrien bless her she is so happy, I’m so lucky to have her as my General. RM: (Slowly puts the handset down, but the line is already dead).
I think it's important to try and make the meeting constructive.
If the first questioner just slags off KM and RD, and says they should "go away" asap, then the meeting will go nowhere. Until RD gets a good offer, he won't be selling, so we need to persuade them to do things a bit differently in the mean time.
Spot on.
Yes, this this and this again. There is no point in doing anything other than allowing the club to have their say. It needs to be a meeting that is driven by mutual respect so that the club and particularly Katrienfeels comfortable enough to be able to trust supporters with what she needs to say.
Becoming unnecessarily adversarial will be counter-productive, but I had opportunity today to make clear to Katrien that we the fans have got ourselves organised in order that the best opportunity for a dialogue is available to all, and that we expect the club to play their part in that. What we will be asking will be direct and to the point, but will give opportunity for the club to communicate with us.
I think realistically we also probably need to accept that we may need to exhibit a little patience as RM and particularly KM may need to overcome some initial nervousness and defensiveness in light of the weekend's protests. That doesn't mean letting them off the hook, but being forbearing with our objectives for outcomes from the meeting to the fore.
KM must not be allowed to hide behind Saturday's protests. It was the supporters showing how much they care, why can't the club embrace this instead of having KM treat us as the enemy.
If KM does hide behind the protests, simply ask why (before the protests) she has gone to ground since sacking the 4th Manager in this ownership, appointed a 5th but feels it's is ok for a CEO to say NOTHING.
All attendees should not be on the back foot irrespective what self indulgent nonsense may come from those at the club. We are suffering more by their actions than they are suffering from ours.
As was stated at the Woolwich meeting, the supporters have not run out on the club, the club has run out on us.
This. It's so much easier and less effort to engage with fans and be honest. Assuming there's nothing to hide. She's so inept and out of her depth it's unreal.
I wish all the supporters who are there tomorrow luck but I expect very little to come of this. It's a cherry-picked, well-scripted event, Saturday's result will offer them a stud to hide behind and I feel they will draw as much of the focus to the results, deflecting away from the serious long-term concerns about the future of the club and the way it's run. RM will indeed serve a shield for KM and will use his history with the club to draw as much fierce criticism away as possible. I don't trust either of them anymore and I don't expect it to be filmed like last time, we will get an edited transcript.
A great question would be for someone to print off the general survey and wave it in their faces. It's virtually the same as the one before the last fans forum citing the same problems.
Who's the compere for this fine event? Do we know where it's being held as well or is that also shrouded in secrecy? And, will there be refreshments. I would want to know, I for one struggle to swallow b****hit without a cup of tetley to wash it down with.
Let's wait and see.
I can confirm that it will be videoed and we expect it to be released unedited a la the VIP meeting. We will be taking our own notes though, and are attending the meeting on the understanding that there is no embargo on post-match reporting.
We've provided the name of an independent chair to avoid any sense that the fans will be managed out of the meeting, but we're awaiting confirmation it can be mutually agreed. The club had assumed Mick would run it, but a club employee isn't really acceptable to the fans' reps, as good a guy as Mick is.
I've also agreed with KM that we will be allowed to drive our own agenda at the meeting, and as we've not provided questions in advance they'll struggle to script it.
I do understand the cynicism, but all we can do is organise to make the best attempt at making it meaningful.
I think it's important to try and make the meeting constructive.
If the first questioner just slags off KM and RD, and says they should "go away" asap, then the meeting will go nowhere. Until RD gets a good offer, he won't be selling, so we need to persuade them to do things a bit differently in the mean time.
Spot on.
Yes, this this and this again. There is no point in doing anything other than allowing the club to have their say. It needs to be a meeting that is driven by mutual respect so that the club and particularly Katrienfeels comfortable enough to be able to trust supporters with what she needs to say.
Becoming unnecessarily adversarial will be counter-productive, but I had opportunity today to make clear to Katrien that we the fans have got ourselves organised in order that the best opportunity for a dialogue is available to all, and that we expect the club to play their part in that. What we will be asking will be direct and to the point, but will give opportunity for the club to communicate with us.
I think realistically we also probably need to accept that we may need to exhibit a little patience as RM and particularly KM may need to overcome some initial nervousness and defensiveness in light of the weekend's protests. That doesn't mean letting them off the hook, but being forbearing with our objectives for outcomes from the meeting to the fore.
KM must not be allowed to hide behind Saturday's protests. It was the supporters showing how much they care, why can't the club embrace this instead of having KM treat us as the enemy.
If KM does hide behind the protests, simply ask why (before the protests) she has gone to ground since sacking the 4th Manager in this ownership, appointed a 5th but feels it's is ok for a CEO to say NOTHING.
All attendees should not be on the back foot irrespective what self indulgent nonsense may come from those at the club. We are suffering more by their actions than they are suffering from ours.
As was stated at the Woolwich meeting, the supporters have not run out on the club, the club has run out on us.
You misunderstand me. No-one's saying she should hide behind it, but equally we need to recognise there are two human beings sat in front of us and if we want to achieve some open dialogue on the night pissing them off in the first five minutes isn't going to get any kimonos opening.
I'd like to see someone ask her how many candidates she's interviewed or approached for the head coach job so far. I'd also like to know how many of them have managed teams in Britain.
Having seen KM talk at a Bromley Addicks meeting, she came across as being approachable and willing to listen. My views on her have since changed but still believe she's clever and capable of avoiding the most basic questions. I've got faith in those attending will ask decent questions and hopefully provide evidence of systematic failures. Good luck to the lucky few.
When I asked KM some searching questions at the VIP meeting. Mick Everett told KM not to answer.
Please ask specific closed questions. If Mick is chairing the meeting, then you'll likely not get very far.
I am not one of the invited 'random' fans, nevertheless will try to be at the Valley in time to get some first hand info.
Surely the structure of the club is wrong and must be put right before fans, players & management/employees can feel we are all singing from the same hymn sheet. Only then I feel will progress be made.
Hope the questions concentrate on practical objectives rather than repeatedly telling KM/RD to f off.
Nevertheless if, say 4 months down the line we- the supporters, are still being ignored and the club is still in deep doo-doo; my discontent will escalate enormously, I feel sure of that.
One question I would like someone to ask if they would be so kind is.
We know RD had invested money in the club and has plans to invest in the training ground etc. But how much of this is he counting as loans to the club? ie are we going to end up in a position where we are riddled with debt at high interest which we will never pay back?
I'd like to know if KM thinks it's coincidence that both Standard Liege and Charlton fans have protested against RD in the last 12 months. We can't all be wrong can we Katrien?
I'd like to know if KM thinks it's coincidence that both Standard Liege and Charlton fans have protested against RD in the last 12 months. We can't all be wrong can we Katrien?
or asked it even more open ended "why do you think that charlton fans and standard liege fans have protested in the last 12 months"
and keep asking why, when she responses with guarded answers.
I'd love to be there for this and drill her... is that going to be even allowed, I doubt it...
I'd like to know if KM thinks it's coincidence that both Standard Liege and Charlton fans have protested against RD in the last 12 months. We can't all be wrong can we Katrien?
And Jena. Don't forget Jena.
But there was a difference. People in the club resolved to persuade RD to explain his plans. They were successful. Of course the difference is that there, he's a minority owner. people inside the club, who needed his investment, persuaded him.
Maybe Jena's is the lesson Katrien needs to learn.
I have a few questions of my own that I think all of us not going would like to know the answers to. Please could one of the representatives, or golden ticket winners, answer them for us?
1. Have any of the people attending been given an agenda or meeting structure by the club? 2. I assume the meeting is not being broadcast on Player or YouTube - can this be confirmed? 3. Can those attending confirm that they have not been asked to, nor will they agree to, any embargo on the discussions that take place and the answers given? (waiting for official minutes will not be acceptable to any of us, I'm sure) 4. How are those attending intending on communicating their notes and the results of the meeting with those of us not present? 5. Is anyone going planning to live tweet the event and what are their twitter handles? 6. Is a representative of the local press going to be present to report on the event? 7. Have the number of randomly selected non-affiliated "guests" been announced - is this a meeting with 15 fans or 25/30/50/etc? 8. Has the chair of the meeting been announced and are they independent if so?
I would hope that if there are any restrictions regarding points 3/4/5/6 above then those attending won't abide by them?
Thanks in advance for any replies.
Hi @LeaburnForEngland. I hope it's reassuring that all of those questions have been considered at some point by the group. We've been working behind the scenes to get ready for this meeting, so it's not going to be just a series of random questions or observations about the state of the burgers. For once, we have a large group of fan organisations working together - and doing so very well if I might observe that.
In answer to your specific questions.
1. No, but we are taking our own agenda to the meeting. 2. We have asked the club to video the event, or stream it if possible, but await a response. We'll try to organise our own if necessary. 3. We have insisted there shall be no such embargo. 4. We'll discuss and agree this tomorrow - we need to nominate a scribe. 5. This hasn't been arranged yet, I'll see what's possible tomorrow. 6. No. This is a meeting between the fans and the club, but as we won't accept an embargo the press can ask us anything they like after the meeting. 7. I understand 20 will be going, including the original list and 4 additional Fans' Forum members. We've identified 2 of the additional invitees, who are on board with us, but the club won't reveal the others. 8. We are negotiating with the club over this. We are insisting on an independent chair and have a couple of names in the frame, to be confirmed.
We will go to the meeting, and hopefully we'll still be there at the end.
I need to issue a correction to 7, and an apology to Mick Everett as well. The club weren't prepared to release contact details because of DPA, but Mick did email the group and ask them to contact us. As a result of that we now have 3 of them on board; I understand there are no more than 7 others and who knows they may come forward today.
I was aware of all of this when I made that post, so I must acknowledge my lazy wording and correct it for the sake of accuracy and to give the club the credit due for trying to help us with what we're trying to achieve. Sorry Mick.
Comments
A great question would be for someone to print off the general survey and wave it in their faces. It's virtually the same as the one before the last fans forum citing the same problems.
Who's the compere for this fine event? Do we know where it's being held as well or is that also shrouded in secrecy? And, will there be refreshments. I would want to know, I for one struggle to swallow b****hit without a cup of tetley to wash it down with.
Both of them have history of not telling the truth to direct questions by fans. I fear tomorrow will be no different.
I just hope they don't lump poor Mick Everett with the job of compering the event.
If KM does hide behind the protests, simply ask why (before the protests) she has gone to ground since sacking the 4th Manager in this ownership, appointed a 5th but feels it's is ok for a CEO to say NOTHING.
All attendees should not be on the back foot irrespective what self indulgent nonsense may come from those at the club. We are suffering more by their actions than they are suffering from ours.
As was stated at the Woolwich meeting, the supporters have not run out on the club, the club has run out on us.
RM: I say Roly old chap how the devil are you?
RD: OK Why?
RM: Listen, this meeting tomorrow with me and Katrien v the jolly old Charlton mob - any chance of a bit of support? I mean I’m not asking for you to make a personal appearance or anything, but maybe you could appear by a video link up ... sort of thing ... (silence) … Roland?
RD: (deep sigh) Why would I trouble to do that when I have already employed Katrien to act as my eyes and ears to do that task? Oh by the way Richard you are the club ambassador you have been issued with a template - stick to that eh? You’re usually pretty good at … what is it you English say, spinning the Doctor - Doctoring the spin eh?
RM: Oh yes Roly, I can do that Roly, you know I can do that, but just give me something. Look I’ve heard that Yann the man isn’t too busy at the moment. Can we get him in on a short term loan? It’ll pretty much stop the tide of hatred against us …
RD: Hatred? What is this hatred?
RM: Oh I forgot Roland you don’t get emotion do you? Hatred is a kind of vehicle that the Charlton supporters are driving against us because of your total lack of empathy to all things Charlton.
RD: (finger tapping noises) Empathy?
RM: Oh never mind Roly. I’ll tell them that we’re making enquiries about Yann and looking to interview some English managers in the near future.
RD: (clapping noise) I knew you could spin the doctor Richard. Oh give my regards to Katrien Richard and tell her I look forward to the photos.
RM: Photos?
RD: Yes she has some of the fans - they came round to the car park on Saturday especially to chant my name. Katrien bless her she is so happy, I’m so lucky to have her as my General.
RM: (Slowly puts the handset down, but the line is already dead).
I can confirm that it will be videoed and we expect it to be released unedited a la the VIP meeting. We will be taking our own notes though, and are attending the meeting on the understanding that there is no embargo on post-match reporting.
We've provided the name of an independent chair to avoid any sense that the fans will be managed out of the meeting, but we're awaiting confirmation it can be mutually agreed. The club had assumed Mick would run it, but a club employee isn't really acceptable to the fans' reps, as good a guy as Mick is.
I've also agreed with KM that we will be allowed to drive our own agenda at the meeting, and as we've not provided questions in advance they'll struggle to script it.
I do understand the cynicism, but all we can do is organise to make the best attempt at making it meaningful.
Please ask specific closed questions. If Mick is chairing the meeting, then you'll likely not get very far.
Surely the structure of the club is wrong and must be put right before fans, players & management/employees can feel we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Only then I feel will progress be made.
Hope the questions concentrate on practical objectives rather than repeatedly telling KM/RD to f off.
Nevertheless if, say 4 months down the line we- the supporters, are still being ignored and the club is still in deep doo-doo; my discontent will escalate enormously, I feel sure of that.
We know RD had invested money in the club and has plans to invest in the training ground etc. But how much of this is he counting as loans to the club? ie are we going to end up in a position where we are riddled with debt at high interest which we will never pay back?
and keep asking why, when she responses with guarded answers.
I'd love to be there for this and drill her... is that going to be even allowed, I doubt it...
I know I have tee-d someone up here ...
But there was a difference. People in the club resolved to persuade RD to explain his plans. They were successful. Of course the difference is that there, he's a minority owner. people inside the club, who needed his investment, persuaded him.
Maybe Jena's is the lesson Katrien needs to learn.
I was aware of all of this when I made that post, so I must acknowledge my lazy wording and correct it for the sake of accuracy and to give the club the credit due for trying to help us with what we're trying to achieve. Sorry Mick.