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Don't get fooled again

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  • Davo55 said:

    Davo55 said:

    Amongst the unexpected joy of a very good performance and a much needed win yesterday, one thing troubled me - a lot. That is, the smattering of posts on several threads which either stated outright or implied that perhaps KM wasn't really all that bad with her nervous girly giggling, that KF deserved credit for the tactical and motivational expertise that drew such a good response from the players, that all could yet be well in the CAFC season.

    That troubled me because it took me back to the meeting in Woolwich last winter, the anger and despair in that freezing room, the determination most of us felt to address the concerns that our club was slipping away from all the values that we loved and cherished. And it took me back to how quickly all that passion dissipated in the face of a string of better results.

    Please guys and gals, don't let that happen again.

    Roland is still a weirdo, conducting some strange social football experiment at our great club.

    Meire is still an incompetent, arrogant puppet who time and again has shown her contempt for us.

    KF is still a third rate coach who has been directly responsible for some of the worst signings in our history, and who only has the job (interim) because he will do exactly what he's told.

    As great as yesterday was, let's not allow ourselves to be deflected. Let's be focused, determined and resolute.

    Win, lose or draw, ROLAND OUT, MEIRE OUT, FRAEYE OUT.

    Don't get fooled again.

    Davo55 I was also at the Woolwich meeting and I also find much empathy with your feelings that also reflect mind.... but regarding your comments about KF I cannot see how you know that he is 'third rate' ( he did well with Riga anyway) and for the record he has never been a scout and was not involved or responsible for any of OUR previous signings although he was somewhat instrumental in recommending Igor whom he had worked with.
    And yes, he is employed by the puppet master but that does not necessarily make him a puppet, as least not any more than anyone of us who is an employee.
    I have met him and was tremendously impressed with his knowledge and analysis of the way the team had been set up and playing with GL, so maybe I am foolish but I do think that he will get the best out of our current players and get them to play as a team that know what their individual jobs are.
    Of course he needs backing from RD and KM and I am sure he will get some..... but I think none of us has any faith in whoever buys the players!!!
    More optimistic today anyway!
    Interesting to hear your views, @Desperate_Pete

    My opinion of Fraeye is based solely on his track record to date, which if I read correctly was in the 3rd level Belgian league (other than his stint here as number two to Riga). And I had heard that many of the players brought in under Roland's tenure were recommended by Fraeye, to the extent that Phil Chapple was marginalised. Is that mistaken?

    I am mildly encouraged by your views on the basis of having met him. I really, really hope you're right.
    He did come from a 3rd level Belgium side but also had a sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions) before he came to Charlton with Riga. Actually I think it would be difficult for him to get a higher ranking position as he is contracted to RD and can be called upon to go elsewhere at RD's command......
    Many people have come to the conclusion that he recommended/scouted the players brought in but this is not correct although apart from Igor he had a greater input with players at the Spanish club. Yes Phil Chapple was probably annoyed about having input with these players outside of the Championship but he was tempted by a good opportunity with Fulham - part yes, part no.
    Glad that you are mildly encouraged Davo55, I know that I am!
  • Actually I don't think he does have a contract with RD. I read some comments from him that he is currently employed on a week to week basis. I think many good points have been made here, but if Fraeye does have some level of success it's more from luck than judgement. The people in charge have taken a gamble on every manager they have appointed so far, none of them had a track record to speak of except for Riga who did have some reasonable experience, albeit abroad.

    The problem as I see it, is that if we do turn things around under Fraeye, then Roland will likely believe that his own judgement is sound and the underfunded squad that we have is good enough, and season after season we will see exactly the same issues arising. It might be fine for RD to sail close to relegation every season but he doesn't have an attachment to the club, it's just business, and therefore will not have to experience all the emotion that us fans have to endure.

    As much as I want the team to improve and go on to pull us out of the relegation scrap, it feels like a double edged sword.

    Yes he is being employed on a week to week basis but at Charlton. When/if he departs Charlton he will go somewhere else in the empire!
    Karel can only succeed in the short term with the present small squad so I share your fear that Roland will feel that his judgement in this is sound.
    Roland will have to change or go. I do not think he will go so I am hoping that he will change his approach.
  • vffvff
    edited November 2015
    The problem is that Emperor Duchatelet doesn't want anyone to challenge him. He only wants obedience and people who say 'yes' and not tell him he is mistaken. Meire is the part of the symptom. All that being said, a more competent person would carry out the basic business process of the club and responsibilities of a CEO much better; and avoid putting their foot in it on such a regular basis. Duchatelet most likely though values obedience/control over competence. Her task is a thankless and impossible one given the rubbish strategy and her lack of experience and general competence. Meire should be planning her exit plan as the situation cannot hold in a way that will bring her any credit. Meire has got to go for her own sake and the sake of the club.
  • We could do with some fan ownership. I think this should be compulsory in the uk.

    If we could get actual attendances up to 20/25k on a regular basis, this must be better for the club and its owners? I don't understand why you wouldn't try and do that with the club structure. Sell 30% of the votes to the fans or a fan trust, release some money and get people engaged....

    Oh.
  • Actually I don't think he does have a contract with RD. I read some comments from him that he is currently employed on a week to week basis. I think many good points have been made here, but if Fraeye does have some level of success it's more from luck than judgement. The people in charge have taken a gamble on every manager they have appointed so far, none of them had a track record to speak of except for Riga who did have some reasonable experience, albeit abroad.

    The problem as I see it, is that if we do turn things around under Fraeye, then Roland will likely believe that his own judgement is sound and the underfunded squad that we have is good enough, and season after season we will see exactly the same issues arising. It might be fine for RD to sail close to relegation every season but he doesn't have an attachment to the club, it's just business, and therefore will not have to experience all the emotion that us fans have to endure.

    As much as I want the team to improve and go on to pull us out of the relegation scrap, it feels like a double edged sword.

    Yes he is being employed on a week to week basis but at Charlton. When/if he departs Charlton he will go somewhere else in the empire!
    Karel can only succeed in the short term with the present small squad so I share your fear that Roland will feel that his judgement in this is sound.
    Roland will have to change or go. I do not think he will go so I am hoping that he will change his approach.
    Maybe. Let's remember that he was not working for RD in his last role at VW Hamme.
  • I agree completely with the last post.There was no point in appointing an interim Head Coach and certainly not this one. watching yesterday it looked to me that Jason Euell was running the show and there was. No need to look beyond him as an interim appointment.
    KM is the owners representative and it is her job to report back to the owner on all matters including supporter reaction. she either has no interest in that reaction or fails to take note of it, she actually came into the millennium lounge yesterday and in response to a question stated that she is interviewing potential managers, quite frankly I do not believe a word of what she says and she has no credibility with supporters.
    In modern football an accomplished CEO is vital as coaches are no longer managers.She has not shown any willingness to learn from her errors not to engage with dupporters(ignoring letters from customers is unproductive) and she should be replaced immediately.
    With a new CEO and an experienced head coach with some investment and we could still be saved from relegation, this must happen now
    Will it, probably not
  • Davo55 said:

    Davo55 said:

    Amongst the unexpected joy of a very good performance and a much needed win yesterday, one thing troubled me - a lot. That is, the smattering of posts on several threads which either stated outright or implied that perhaps KM wasn't really all that bad with her nervous girly giggling, that KF deserved credit for the tactical and motivational expertise that drew such a good response from the players, that all could yet be well in the CAFC season.

    That troubled me because it took me back to the meeting in Woolwich last winter, the anger and despair in that freezing room, the determination most of us felt to address the concerns that our club was slipping away from all the values that we loved and cherished. And it took me back to how quickly all that passion dissipated in the face of a string of better results.

    Please guys and gals, don't let that happen again.

    Roland is still a weirdo, conducting some strange social football experiment at our great club.

    Meire is still an incompetent, arrogant puppet who time and again has shown her contempt for us.

    KF is still a third rate coach who has been directly responsible for some of the worst signings in our history, and who only has the job (interim) because he will do exactly what he's told.

    As great as yesterday was, let's not allow ourselves to be deflected. Let's be focused, determined and resolute.

    Win, lose or draw, ROLAND OUT, MEIRE OUT, FRAEYE OUT.

    Don't get fooled again.

    Davo55 I was also at the Woolwich meeting and I also find much empathy with your feelings that also reflect mind.... but regarding your comments about KF I cannot see how you know that he is 'third rate' ( he did well with Riga anyway) and for the record he has never been a scout and was not involved or responsible for any of OUR previous signings although he was somewhat instrumental in recommending Igor whom he had worked with.
    And yes, he is employed by the puppet master but that does not necessarily make him a puppet, as least not any more than anyone of us who is an employee.
    I have met him and was tremendously impressed with his knowledge and analysis of the way the team had been set up and playing with GL, so maybe I am foolish but I do think that he will get the best out of our current players and get them to play as a team that know what their individual jobs are.
    Of course he needs backing from RD and KM and I am sure he will get some..... but I think none of us has any faith in whoever buys the players!!!
    More optimistic today anyway!
    Interesting to hear your views, @Desperate_Pete

    My opinion of Fraeye is based solely on his track record to date, which if I read correctly was in the 3rd level Belgian league (other than his stint here as number two to Riga). And I had heard that many of the players brought in under Roland's tenure were recommended by Fraeye, to the extent that Phil Chapple was marginalised. Is that mistaken?

    I am mildly encouraged by your views on the basis of having met him. I really, really hope you're right.
    He did come from a 3rd level Belgium side but also had a sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions) before he came to Charlton with Riga. Actually I think it would be difficult for him to get a higher ranking position as he is contracted to RD and can be called upon to go elsewhere at RD's command......
    Many people have come to the conclusion that he recommended/scouted the players brought in but this is not correct although apart from Igor he had a greater input with players at the Spanish club. Yes Phil Chapple was probably annoyed about having input with these players outside of the Championship but he was tempted by a good opportunity with Fulham - part yes, part no.
    Glad that you are mildly encouraged Davo55, I know that I am!
    I can't find any trace of that "sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions)" in his Wikipedia entry. Indeed it says that Eendracht Zele is/was in the 4th Division "A" (it's regionalised).

    Can you imagine what level that is? It's going to be way below Welling...

    Furthermore I can't find any indication that either this club or his last one have anything to do with RD. When do you understand his "contract" with RD to have started? He was certainly around in the early months before Riga arrived because a couple of people met him at the Valley (including @seth plum if I recall right). But are you saying he was still in some way working for RD while he was at this VW Hamme? What do you think would be the purpose of such an arrangement.?

    "Third rate" is a perjorative phrase. Turn it on its head then. Where is the the evidence of a growing level of success in team management? I cannot see it in the cv, can you?
  • Davo55 said:

    Davo55 said:

    Amongst the unexpected joy of a very good performance and a much needed win yesterday, one thing troubled me - a lot. That is, the smattering of posts on several threads which either stated outright or implied that perhaps KM wasn't really all that bad with her nervous girly giggling, that KF deserved credit for the tactical and motivational expertise that drew such a good response from the players, that all could yet be well in the CAFC season.

    That troubled me because it took me back to the meeting in Woolwich last winter, the anger and despair in that freezing room, the determination most of us felt to address the concerns that our club was slipping away from all the values that we loved and cherished. And it took me back to how quickly all that passion dissipated in the face of a string of better results.

    Please guys and gals, don't let that happen again.

    Roland is still a weirdo, conducting some strange social football experiment at our great club.

    Meire is still an incompetent, arrogant puppet who time and again has shown her contempt for us.

    KF is still a third rate coach who has been directly responsible for some of the worst signings in our history, and who only has the job (interim) because he will do exactly what he's told.

    As great as yesterday was, let's not allow ourselves to be deflected. Let's be focused, determined and resolute.

    Win, lose or draw, ROLAND OUT, MEIRE OUT, FRAEYE OUT.

    Don't get fooled again.

    Davo55 I was also at the Woolwich meeting and I also find much empathy with your feelings that also reflect mind.... but regarding your comments about KF I cannot see how you know that he is 'third rate' ( he did well with Riga anyway) and for the record he has never been a scout and was not involved or responsible for any of OUR previous signings although he was somewhat instrumental in recommending Igor whom he had worked with.
    And yes, he is employed by the puppet master but that does not necessarily make him a puppet, as least not any more than anyone of us who is an employee.
    I have met him and was tremendously impressed with his knowledge and analysis of the way the team had been set up and playing with GL, so maybe I am foolish but I do think that he will get the best out of our current players and get them to play as a team that know what their individual jobs are.
    Of course he needs backing from RD and KM and I am sure he will get some..... but I think none of us has any faith in whoever buys the players!!!
    More optimistic today anyway!
    Interesting to hear your views, @Desperate_Pete

    My opinion of Fraeye is based solely on his track record to date, which if I read correctly was in the 3rd level Belgian league (other than his stint here as number two to Riga). And I had heard that many of the players brought in under Roland's tenure were recommended by Fraeye, to the extent that Phil Chapple was marginalised. Is that mistaken?

    I am mildly encouraged by your views on the basis of having met him. I really, really hope you're right.
    He did come from a 3rd level Belgium side but also had a sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions) before he came to Charlton with Riga. Actually I think it would be difficult for him to get a higher ranking position as he is contracted to RD and can be called upon to go elsewhere at RD's command......
    Many people have come to the conclusion that he recommended/scouted the players brought in but this is not correct although apart from Igor he had a greater input with players at the Spanish club. Yes Phil Chapple was probably annoyed about having input with these players outside of the Championship but he was tempted by a good opportunity with Fulham - part yes, part no.
    Glad that you are mildly encouraged Davo55, I know that I am!
    I can't find any trace of that "sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions)" in his Wikipedia entry. Indeed it says that Eendracht Zele is/was in the 4th Division "A" (it's regionalised).

    Can you imagine what level that is? It's going to be way below Welling...

    Furthermore I can't find any indication that either this club or his last one have anything to do with RD. When do you understand his "contract" with RD to have started? He was certainly around in the early months before Riga arrived because a couple of people met him at the Valley (including @seth plum if I recall right). But are you saying he was still in some way working for RD while he was at this VW Hamme? What do you think would be the purpose of such an arrangement.?

    "Third rate" is a perjorative phrase. Turn it on its head then. Where is the the evidence of a growing level of success in team management? I cannot see it in the cv, can you?
    Well, I guess his CV now includes "ended an 11-game stretch without a win as interim head coach at Championship Charlton"?
  • So who is it that everyone wants to be manager?....championship experience British and of course would need to be out of work.
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  • Davo55 said:

    Davo55 said:

    Amongst the unexpected joy of a very good performance and a much needed win yesterday, one thing troubled me - a lot. That is, the smattering of posts on several threads which either stated outright or implied that perhaps KM wasn't really all that bad with her nervous girly giggling, that KF deserved credit for the tactical and motivational expertise that drew such a good response from the players, that all could yet be well in the CAFC season.

    That troubled me because it took me back to the meeting in Woolwich last winter, the anger and despair in that freezing room, the determination most of us felt to address the concerns that our club was slipping away from all the values that we loved and cherished. And it took me back to how quickly all that passion dissipated in the face of a string of better results.

    Please guys and gals, don't let that happen again.

    Roland is still a weirdo, conducting some strange social football experiment at our great club.

    Meire is still an incompetent, arrogant puppet who time and again has shown her contempt for us.

    KF is still a third rate coach who has been directly responsible for some of the worst signings in our history, and who only has the job (interim) because he will do exactly what he's told.

    As great as yesterday was, let's not allow ourselves to be deflected. Let's be focused, determined and resolute.

    Win, lose or draw, ROLAND OUT, MEIRE OUT, FRAEYE OUT.

    Don't get fooled again.

    Davo55 I was also at the Woolwich meeting and I also find much empathy with your feelings that also reflect mind.... but regarding your comments about KF I cannot see how you know that he is 'third rate' ( he did well with Riga anyway) and for the record he has never been a scout and was not involved or responsible for any of OUR previous signings although he was somewhat instrumental in recommending Igor whom he had worked with.
    And yes, he is employed by the puppet master but that does not necessarily make him a puppet, as least not any more than anyone of us who is an employee.
    I have met him and was tremendously impressed with his knowledge and analysis of the way the team had been set up and playing with GL, so maybe I am foolish but I do think that he will get the best out of our current players and get them to play as a team that know what their individual jobs are.
    Of course he needs backing from RD and KM and I am sure he will get some..... but I think none of us has any faith in whoever buys the players!!!
    More optimistic today anyway!
    Interesting to hear your views, @Desperate_Pete

    My opinion of Fraeye is based solely on his track record to date, which if I read correctly was in the 3rd level Belgian league (other than his stint here as number two to Riga). And I had heard that many of the players brought in under Roland's tenure were recommended by Fraeye, to the extent that Phil Chapple was marginalised. Is that mistaken?

    I am mildly encouraged by your views on the basis of having met him. I really, really hope you're right.
    He did come from a 3rd level Belgium side but also had a sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions) before he came to Charlton with Riga. Actually I think it would be difficult for him to get a higher ranking position as he is contracted to RD and can be called upon to go elsewhere at RD's command......
    Many people have come to the conclusion that he recommended/scouted the players brought in but this is not correct although apart from Igor he had a greater input with players at the Spanish club. Yes Phil Chapple was probably annoyed about having input with these players outside of the Championship but he was tempted by a good opportunity with Fulham - part yes, part no.
    Glad that you are mildly encouraged Davo55, I know that I am!
    I can't find any trace of that "sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions)" in his Wikipedia entry. Indeed it says that Eendracht Zele is/was in the 4th Division "A" (it's regionalised).

    Can you imagine what level that is? It's going to be way below Welling...

    Furthermore I can't find any indication that either this club or his last one have anything to do with RD. When do you understand his "contract" with RD to have started? He was certainly around in the early months before Riga arrived because a couple of people met him at the Valley (including @seth plum if I recall right). But are you saying he was still in some way working for RD while he was at this VW Hamme? What do you think would be the purpose of such an arrangement.?

    "Third rate" is a perjorative phrase. Turn it on its head then. Where is the the evidence of a growing level of success in team management? I cannot see it in the cv, can you?
    My club played at Eendracht Zele on a pre-season tour in the early 1980's. The club was Kent League level then, so I'd guess it still is. The ground had dressing rooms behind the goal, much as the old Greenwich Borough ground, although the bar was upstairs in a two story building. There was a small covered terrace down one side, behind the dug outs.
  • Even if we believe that KM is conducting interviews for a permanent Head Coach, how on earth can we trust her judgement to make the right appointment?
    Her record to date is abysmal, or is the decision being made for her and told to get on with it?
    I'd love to be fly on the wall during these interviews.
  • Even if we believe that KM is conducting interviews for a permanent Head Coach, how on earth can we trust her judgement to make the right appointment?
    Her record to date is abysmal, or is the decision being made for her and told to get on with it?
    I'd love to be fly on the wall during these interviews.

    They are a figment of her imagination.
  • edited November 2015

    Its all about results for the majority, If Charlton say win 10 games out of the next 15 and then someone suggests a protest in the car park i reckon you would be lucky to get twenty people who turned up. Carol would be the next messiah too.
    I belive most are annoyed because the old roly built a squad that was paper thin in the summer so therefore are we just asking him to splash the cash?

    The problem is, if he won 10 out of 15, in the Esoteric world of Roland,
    He could still be replaced ? just look at Jose Riga who took us to 17th from 24th
    yet still lost his job. We all know why, because he played less of the network boys than CP did.
    The off the field issues are important in the long run, so agree the result are paramount but the Running of the club in a professional and friendly manner
    and staff have a good environment to work in should be a given.
    how in 2015, can a CEO not listen to their customers (as that seems to be what we are called now)
  • Davo55 said:

    Davo55 said:

    Amongst the unexpected joy of a very good performance and a much needed win yesterday, one thing troubled me - a lot. That is, the smattering of posts on several threads which either stated outright or implied that perhaps KM wasn't really all that bad with her nervous girly giggling, that KF deserved credit for the tactical and motivational expertise that drew such a good response from the players, that all could yet be well in the CAFC season.

    That troubled me because it took me back to the meeting in Woolwich last winter, the anger and despair in that freezing room, the determination most of us felt to address the concerns that our club was slipping away from all the values that we loved and cherished. And it took me back to how quickly all that passion dissipated in the face of a string of better results.

    Please guys and gals, don't let that happen again.

    Roland is still a weirdo, conducting some strange social football experiment at our great club.

    Meire is still an incompetent, arrogant puppet who time and again has shown her contempt for us.

    KF is still a third rate coach who has been directly responsible for some of the worst signings in our history, and who only has the job (interim) because he will do exactly what he's told.

    As great as yesterday was, let's not allow ourselves to be deflected. Let's be focused, determined and resolute.

    Win, lose or draw, ROLAND OUT, MEIRE OUT, FRAEYE OUT.

    Don't get fooled again.

    Davo55 I was also at the Woolwich meeting and I also find much empathy with your feelings that also reflect mind.... but regarding your comments about KF I cannot see how you know that he is 'third rate' ( he did well with Riga anyway) and for the record he has never been a scout and was not involved or responsible for any of OUR previous signings although he was somewhat instrumental in recommending Igor whom he had worked with.
    And yes, he is employed by the puppet master but that does not necessarily make him a puppet, as least not any more than anyone of us who is an employee.
    I have met him and was tremendously impressed with his knowledge and analysis of the way the team had been set up and playing with GL, so maybe I am foolish but I do think that he will get the best out of our current players and get them to play as a team that know what their individual jobs are.
    Of course he needs backing from RD and KM and I am sure he will get some..... but I think none of us has any faith in whoever buys the players!!!
    More optimistic today anyway!
    Interesting to hear your views, @Desperate_Pete

    My opinion of Fraeye is based solely on his track record to date, which if I read correctly was in the 3rd level Belgian league (other than his stint here as number two to Riga). And I had heard that many of the players brought in under Roland's tenure were recommended by Fraeye, to the extent that Phil Chapple was marginalised. Is that mistaken?

    I am mildly encouraged by your views on the basis of having met him. I really, really hope you're right.
    He did come from a 3rd level Belgium side but also had a sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions) before he came to Charlton with Riga. Actually I think it would be difficult for him to get a higher ranking position as he is contracted to RD and can be called upon to go elsewhere at RD's command......
    Many people have come to the conclusion that he recommended/scouted the players brought in but this is not correct although apart from Igor he had a greater input with players at the Spanish club. Yes Phil Chapple was probably annoyed about having input with these players outside of the Championship but he was tempted by a good opportunity with Fulham - part yes, part no.
    Glad that you are mildly encouraged Davo55, I know that I am!
    I can't find any trace of that "sucessful time with a 2nd level club (promotion/champions)" in his Wikipedia entry. Indeed it says that Eendracht Zele is/was in the 4th Division "A" (it's regionalised).

    Can you imagine what level that is? It's going to be way below Welling...

    Furthermore I can't find any indication that either this club or his last one have anything to do with RD. When do you understand his "contract" with RD to have started? He was certainly around in the early months before Riga arrived because a couple of people met him at the Valley (including @seth plum if I recall right). But are you saying he was still in some way working for RD while he was at this VW Hamme? What do you think would be the purpose of such an arrangement.?

    "Third rate" is a perjorative phrase. Turn it on its head then. Where is the the evidence of a growing level of success in team management? I cannot see it in the cv, can you?
    Well, I guess his CV now includes "ended an 11-game stretch without a win as interim head coach at Championship Charlton"?
    Will be on KM's CV as well.
  • Please explain why:

    1. KM laughs at the window and this is interpreted as disrespectful towards the fans.

    2. KM cries at the match as this is interpreted as caring for the club.

    For all we know she may have been about to fart whilst by the window and just followed through when inside the ground.

    All that is certain is that she is a crap CEO and should be replaced. I wouldn't have any sympathy for her. Maybe Duchatelet does things his way and we have to accept that, but why should we accept that she can just do things her way. I bet that there are loads of things going on at the club that Duchaelet does not know (or care?) about. As CEO she could do so much more to keep fans engaged in the club and make a more harmonious atmosphere, without disrespecting Duchatelet's plans. She's just using him as a smokescreen for her ego trip.
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Roland Out Forever!