I've my fingers crossed that the family event could temper some people's behaviour as it might not have done before... can imagine tensions will run high and I was worried there might be one or two idiots among the crowd. You could suggest it's unlikely anyone would be that stupid but it wasn't long ago we had the bottle throwing incident.
The protest MUST be peaceful. We want the press on our side on Sunday morning, rather than reporting on an idiotic minority.
Nobody is going to attack any children, Charlton fans are better than that. If anything, I can see a number of kids being the most vocal, have you heard some of them during a game!?
Can't see many kids turning up....unless she ships them in from elsewhere.
Wouldn't do that would she?
Eurostar full of Belgian kids on its way.
Can see it now."Supporters protest leaves Charlton supporting Syrian refugee children in tears at family day"
Can also see: "Syrian refugees in tears after watching Charlton play. 'Really puts the misery of war and the constant threat of destitution into context' says Syrian father of 3'.
No doubt Mare will break her silence immediately after the protest, stating in a Putinesque style of propaganda, that "It was only a few drunk thugs who had no regard for a kids event". I hate this boring, pathetic Belgian lot more each day.
I'm sorry but this move is disgusting because it's like.... using children as human shield.... if you know what I mean. I don't want to sound over dramatic but what these Belgians are doing is like a government suppressing opposition. A football club should not be run in this way. What a big shame.
Apart from the cynical (and naive) timing of this initiative it continues to prove that KM really doesn't understand the key demand drivers for her product.
Sofas, redder seats, tacky mascots and kids activity areas in the rain and cold really do not attract new fans or retain the old. They're not motivators that create satisfaction or even hygiene factors that prevent dissatisfaction. I would argue that introducing these things without addressing the key issues only serves to annoy those of us who are emotionally tied and alienate those who aren't.
This isn't the USA, UK football demand drivers are quite simple. New fans will be attracted by Premiership football or a chance of getting there. In order to keep the existing fans clubs need to retain their 'natural' level and give fans hope that they're trying for better. Everything else is just noise.
In our case our 'natural' level is mid table second tier. Not many true fans really expect us to be anything else for any length of time. In order to hope for better we need to feel the we have a solid manager (and team around him) and sufficient investment in the team to give us a chance, plus commitment from the players on the pitch. It doesn't have to Ross McCormack or Jordan Rhodes but certainly better than we have now.
The only way to make money out of football at our level is to get to the Premiership. To do that you need to get a good manager and invest in the team, exactly the same tactics that will keep and increase the fan base.
Even Jimenez and Slater were able to work this out. If RD is not prepared to do this he needs to pass the baton.
All this, of course, assumes that RD doesn't have less palatable ways of making money out of his project.
Apart from the cynical (and naive) timing of this initiative it continues to prove that KM really doesn't understand the key demand drivers for her product.
Sofas, redder seats, tacky mascots and kids activity areas in the rain and cold really do not attract new fans or retain the old. They're not motivators that create satisfaction or even hygiene factors that prevent dissatisfaction. I would argue that introducing these things without addressing the key issues only serves to annoy those of us who are emotionally tied and alienate those who aren't.
This isn't the USA, UK football demand drivers are quite simple. New fans will be attracted by Premiership football or a chance of getting there. In order to keep the existing fans clubs need to retain their 'natural' level and give fans hope that they're trying for better. Everything else is just noise.
In our case our 'natural' level is mid table second tier. Not many true fans really expect us to be anything else for any length of time. In order to hope for better we need to feel the we have a solid manager (and team around him) and sufficient investment in the team to give us a chance, plus commitment from the players on the pitch. It doesn't have to Ross McCormack or Jordan Rhodes but certainly better than we have now.
The only way to make money out of football at our level is to get to the Premiership. To do that you need to get a good manager and invest in the team, exactly the same tactics that will keep and increase the fan base.
Even Jimenez and Slater were able to work this out. If RD is not prepared to do this he needs to pass the baton.
All this, of course, assumes that RD doesn't have less palatable ways of making money out of his project.
I fully agree that it's pointless, but it's naivety rather than cynicism IMO. People doing things to show they are busy without any real understanding of what motivates fans.
I'm sorry but this move is disgusting because it's like.... using children as human shield.... if you know what I mean. I don't want to sound over dramatic but what these Belgians are doing is like a government suppressing opposition. A football club should not be run in this way. What a big shame.
It's not trench warfare is it !
Anyway, I thought The Oracle had said the kids event was planned way before the protest ?
i would expect the children to hold their own against the protesters, in fact a full on brawl where the children win would be great exposure for the protest.
I'm sorry but this move is disgusting because it's like.... using children as human shield.... if you know what I mean. I don't want to sound over dramatic but what these Belgians are doing is like a government suppressing opposition. A football club should not be run in this way. What a big shame.
It's not trench warfare is it !
Anyway, I thought The Oracle had said the kids event was planned way before the protest ?
yep -
Airman Brown Member
November 4
I know for a fact that the plan to move the children's activity zone to the west car park was in place before any talk of a protest.
but do we know for a fact it was going to be this Saturday afternoon? if we did then all this talk of them deliberately moving it is wrong and I think a lot of you owe Ms Meire an apology. (flowers will suffice)
The issue is more that they are pushing ahead with promoting it despite the knowledge that supporters have a protest planned. Which, with no guarantee that a few morons won't approach it in the wrong way, is idiocy in the extreme.
It was decided to do this more than two weeks ago. There are safety and business issues with taking out part of the west stand car park during its use for parking, the latter being that fans pay about £30 a match to park there, they tend to be hospitality purchasers, and they will expect what they have paid for. Others are disabled.
The club will have to address the safety issue by segregating the space. They are encouraging parents to leave the community scheme staff in charge of their kids, so they will have to manage access to that area to a high level. Hence I don't think the "conflict" with the protest is significant. The bigger issue is likely to be unhappy car parkers, but Meire sees the kids event as a higher priority than the risk of that.
If you think it was brought forward for other reasons, consider that the club will also lose a further chunk of the car park for Ipswich to the TV vans. It's supposed to be at every weekend match, but it will be interesting to see if it happens then at all. Maybe they'll shift it into the drop-in centre, but it's unlikely there is sufficient interest to sustain it medium term as an outdoor event. They are intensively promoting it, very belatedly, because they realised that if they don't it will flop.
My guess is that they will also seek to control access to the rear of the west stand on Saturday to prevent protestors assembling. This will be cumbersome and inconvenient for both the club and fans, given there are three entrances, but it can be done. Most of the protestors can then be dispersed by the police in Harvey Gardens If they don't drift away naturally. There's not a lot they can do to stop protestors in the lower west accessing the concourse, but that will be a minority and the main effect is likely to be to overload the north stand ticket office, but I doubt if it will be a busy day somehow.
The idea is not a bad one, anything that engages children and encourages families to attend should be applauded. They are the future of the club no doubt.
Announcing it this week when they will know about the protests seems like a very foolish idea and even if it had been planned prior to the protests I would imagine any sensible management board would have delayed the announcement / opening until the next home game.
It would be interesting to know what the police think.
Some activities for kids, involving the Community Trust who know how to run these things, appealing to parent and children, might boost attendances or at least hold them at the same level. Might not either.
However......
The timing is just amazing. Not because there is a planned protest but because it is November. In England. Where is rains. Often. And it's a car park. With cars coming in and fans walking through to get somewhere.
And they are publicising it on the Wednesday before a game on Saturday. Great lead-in time.
Yes, it is to run all season so it's only one game but I wonder how many kids will be asking "Can we go and see the shouty men, please dad" or "mummy, what does wanker mean?"
Airman Brown, who isn't an apologist for this regime in case you haven't noticed, says this was planned BEFORE any protest was announced.
Good idea, poor execution, even worse timing
Don't let on as you'll spoil their surprise, but it's December, January and February up next too.
Are those months often wet or cold in London? I've only just moved here from Belgium where the sun always shines.
They are, which is why it is a London tradition for visitors from Belgium to take Londoners for a hot slap up meal at Belgos. When you taking me?
I think its really well thought out by the club , you can bring your kids along to the valley , have a go on the bouncy castle and other 'entertainment' then you can take your kids on the protest, to moan about how rubbish the football is, genius!
It was decided to do this more than two weeks ago. There are safety and business issues with taking out part of the west stand car park during its use for parking, the latter being that fans pay about £30 a match to park there, they tend to be hospitality purchasers, and they will expect what they have paid for. Others are disabled.
The club will have to address the safety issue by segregating the space. They are encouraging parents to leave the community scheme staff in charge of their kids, so they will have to manage access to that area to a high level. Hence I don't think the "conflict" with the protest is significant. The bigger issue is likely to be unhappy car parkers, but Meire sees the kids event as a higher priority than the risk of that.
If you think it was brought forward for other reasons, consider that the club will also lose a further chunk of the car park for Ipswich to the TV vans. It's supposed to be at every weekend match, but it will be interesting to see if it happens then at all. Maybe they'll shift it into the drop-in centre, but it's unlikely there is sufficient interest to sustain it medium term as an outdoor event. They are intensively promoting it, very belatedly, because they realised that if they don't it will flop.
My guess is that they will also seek to control access to the rear of the west stand on Saturday to prevent protestors assembling. This will be cumbersome and inconvenient for both the club and fans, given there are three entrances, but it can be done. Most of the protestors can then be dispersed by the police in Harvey Gardens If they don't drift away naturally. There's not a lot they can do to stop protestors in the lower west accessing the concourse, but that will be a minority and the main effect is likely to be to overload the north stand ticket office, but I doubt if it will be a busy day somehow.
What you say is correct. But use of the WSCP has dwindled a bit since your day. I'm guessing this may be something to do with the £800 per season fee plus the crap football. My estimate is that on normal non-televised match days, perhaps as much as one and a half rows go unused. I have no idea what sort of footprint the "activity zone" has but I'm assuming quite small and that it is not another family fun day extravaganza. I note that the item on the OS says it will be "inside the main gates". I take this to mean just behind the shop. Cars (but not the away team's coach?) enter via Valley Grove anyway. So there may not really be an issue of kids and vehicles mixing. I also assume that the stuff will all be cleared away during the match to allow normal exiting of vehicles into Harvey Gardens. At the same time as the glaziers will be nailing chipboard to the walls to temporally replace the smashed reception area glass.
Of course, what happens if one of the little darlings injures themselves and the ambulance can't get out of the car park to get to hospital because there are cars coming in one entrance and a bouncy castle blocking the others, is probably another issue no one has thought of.
It was decided to do this more than two weeks ago. There are safety and business issues with taking out part of the west stand car park during its use for parking, the latter being that fans pay about £30 a match to park there, they tend to be hospitality purchasers, and they will expect what they have paid for. Others are disabled.
The club will have to address the safety issue by segregating the space. They are encouraging parents to leave the community scheme staff in charge of their kids, so they will have to manage access to that area to a high level. Hence I don't think the "conflict" with the protest is significant. The bigger issue is likely to be unhappy car parkers, but Meire sees the kids event as a higher priority than the risk of that.
If you think it was brought forward for other reasons, consider that the club will also lose a further chunk of the car park for Ipswich to the TV vans. It's supposed to be at every weekend match, but it will be interesting to see if it happens then at all. Maybe they'll shift it into the drop-in centre, but it's unlikely there is sufficient interest to sustain it medium term as an outdoor event. They are intensively promoting it, very belatedly, because they realised that if they don't it will flop.
My guess is that they will also seek to control access to the rear of the west stand on Saturday to prevent protestors assembling. This will be cumbersome and inconvenient for both the club and fans, given there are three entrances, but it can be done. Most of the protestors can then be dispersed by the police in Harvey Gardens If they don't drift away naturally. There's not a lot they can do to stop protestors in the lower west accessing the concourse, but that will be a minority and the main effect is likely to be to overload the north stand ticket office, but I doubt if it will be a busy day somehow.
What you say is correct. But use of the WSCP has dwindled a bit since your day. I'm guessing this may be something to do with the £800 per season fee plus the crap football. My estimate is that on normal non-televised match days, perhaps as much as one and a half rows go unused. I have no idea what sort of footprint the "activity zone" has but I'm assuming quite small and that it is not another family fun day extravaganza. I note that the item on the OS says it will be "inside the main gates". I take this to mean just behind the shop. Cars (but not the away team's coach?) enter via Valley Grove anyway. So there may not really be an issue of kids and vehicles mixing. I also assume that the stuff will all be cleared away during the match to allow normal exiting of vehicles into Harvey Gardens. At the same time as the glaziers will be nailing chipboard to the walls to temporally replace the smashed reception area glass.
Of course, what happens if one of the little darlings injures themselves and the ambulance can't get out of the car park to get to hospital because there are cars coming in one entrance and a bouncy castle blocking the others, is probably another issue no one has thought of.
The area immediately behind the shop is required for reversing the opposition team coach, so even if they shut the gate between the shop and Floyd Road, there's not huge scope for a segregated area there that isn't taking parking spaces.
You may be right about people not using all the spaces regularly, I've not looked, but I doubt if the demand has changed that much from 2012/13. In any event, if there are spare spaces you think they'd look to find ways to add value to other tickets, i.e. Vista Lounge, etc.
I think its really well thought out by the club , you can bring your kids along to the valley , have a go on the bouncy castle and other 'entertainment' then you can take your kids on the protest, to moan about how rubbish the football is, genius!
Can foresee it now, a load of grown pissed up men bouncing about on the bouncy castle and taking blind penalties while some children are shouting Roland out trying to storm the executive boxes!
It was decided to do this more than two weeks ago. There are safety and business issues with taking out part of the west stand car park during its use for parking, the latter being that fans pay about £30 a match to park there, they tend to be hospitality purchasers, and they will expect what they have paid for. Others are disabled.
The club will have to address the safety issue by segregating the space. They are encouraging parents to leave the community scheme staff in charge of their kids, so they will have to manage access to that area to a high level. Hence I don't think the "conflict" with the protest is significant. The bigger issue is likely to be unhappy car parkers, but Meire sees the kids event as a higher priority than the risk of that.
If you think it was brought forward for other reasons, consider that the club will also lose a further chunk of the car park for Ipswich to the TV vans. It's supposed to be at every weekend match, but it will be interesting to see if it happens then at all. Maybe they'll shift it into the drop-in centre, but it's unlikely there is sufficient interest to sustain it medium term as an outdoor event. They are intensively promoting it, very belatedly, because they realised that if they don't it will flop.
My guess is that they will also seek to control access to the rear of the west stand on Saturday to prevent protestors assembling. This will be cumbersome and inconvenient for both the club and fans, given there are three entrances, but it can be done. Most of the protestors can then be dispersed by the police in Harvey Gardens If they don't drift away naturally. There's not a lot they can do to stop protestors in the lower west accessing the concourse, but that will be a minority and the main effect is likely to be to overload the north stand ticket office, but I doubt if it will be a busy day somehow.
Is Bartrams still open on matchdays ?
If it is, surely anyone stating that's their destination will be allowed access to the back of the West Stand area ?
It was decided to do this more than two weeks ago. There are safety and business issues with taking out part of the west stand car park during its use for parking, the latter being that fans pay about £30 a match to park there, they tend to be hospitality purchasers, and they will expect what they have paid for. Others are disabled.
The club will have to address the safety issue by segregating the space. They are encouraging parents to leave the community scheme staff in charge of their kids, so they will have to manage access to that area to a high level. Hence I don't think the "conflict" with the protest is significant. The bigger issue is likely to be unhappy car parkers, but Meire sees the kids event as a higher priority than the risk of that.
If you think it was brought forward for other reasons, consider that the club will also lose a further chunk of the car park for Ipswich to the TV vans. It's supposed to be at every weekend match, but it will be interesting to see if it happens then at all. Maybe they'll shift it into the drop-in centre, but it's unlikely there is sufficient interest to sustain it medium term as an outdoor event. They are intensively promoting it, very belatedly, because they realised that if they don't it will flop.
My guess is that they will also seek to control access to the rear of the west stand on Saturday to prevent protestors assembling. This will be cumbersome and inconvenient for both the club and fans, given there are three entrances, but it can be done. Most of the protestors can then be dispersed by the police in Harvey Gardens If they don't drift away naturally. There's not a lot they can do to stop protestors in the lower west accessing the concourse, but that will be a minority and the main effect is likely to be to overload the north stand ticket office, but I doubt if it will be a busy day somehow.
Is Bartrams still open on matchdays ?
If it is, surely anyone stating that's their destination will be allowed access to the back of the West Stand area ?
You may be right, FF. I guess it depends how concerned they are about managing the protest and what they think will be the effect of blocking it. They can send people without west tickets to Crossbars, presumably.
Comments
The protest MUST be peaceful. We want the press on our side on Sunday morning, rather than reporting on an idiotic minority.
That's it, they are definitely taking the piss now
I hate this boring, pathetic Belgian lot more each day.
Sofas, redder seats, tacky mascots and kids activity areas in the rain and cold really do not attract new fans or retain the old. They're not motivators that create satisfaction or even hygiene factors that prevent dissatisfaction. I would argue that introducing these things without addressing the key issues only serves to annoy those of us who are emotionally tied and alienate those who aren't.
This isn't the USA, UK football demand drivers are quite simple. New fans will be attracted by Premiership football or a chance of getting there. In order to keep the existing fans clubs need to retain their 'natural' level and give fans hope that they're trying for better. Everything else is just noise.
In our case our 'natural' level is mid table second tier. Not many true fans really expect us to be anything else for any length of time. In order to hope for better we need to feel the we have a solid manager (and team around him) and sufficient investment in the team to give us a chance, plus commitment from the players on the pitch. It doesn't have to Ross McCormack or Jordan Rhodes but certainly better than we have now.
The only way to make money out of football at our level is to get to the Premiership. To do that you need to get a good manager and invest in the team, exactly the same tactics that will keep and increase the fan base.
Even Jimenez and Slater were able to work this out. If RD is not prepared to do this he needs to pass the baton.
All this, of course, assumes that RD doesn't have less palatable ways of making money out of his project.
Anyway, I thought The Oracle had said the kids event was planned way before the protest ?
Airman Brown Member
November 4
I know for a fact that the plan to move the children's activity zone to the west car park was in place before any talk of a protest.
but do we know for a fact it was going to be this Saturday afternoon? if we did then all this talk of them deliberately moving it is wrong and I think a lot of you owe Ms Meire an apology. (flowers will suffice)
So no - Ms Meire isn't owed any apology.
The club will have to address the safety issue by segregating the space. They are encouraging parents to leave the community scheme staff in charge of their kids, so they will have to manage access to that area to a high level. Hence I don't think the "conflict" with the protest is significant. The bigger issue is likely to be unhappy car parkers, but Meire sees the kids event as a higher priority than the risk of that.
If you think it was brought forward for other reasons, consider that the club will also lose a further chunk of the car park for Ipswich to the TV vans. It's supposed to be at every weekend match, but it will be interesting to see if it happens then at all. Maybe they'll shift it into the drop-in centre, but it's unlikely there is sufficient interest to sustain it medium term as an outdoor event. They are intensively promoting it, very belatedly, because they realised that if they don't it will flop.
My guess is that they will also seek to control access to the rear of the west stand on Saturday to prevent protestors assembling. This will be cumbersome and inconvenient for both the club and fans, given there are three entrances, but it can be done. Most of the protestors can then be dispersed by the police in Harvey Gardens If they don't drift away naturally. There's not a lot they can do to stop protestors in the lower west accessing the concourse, but that will be a minority and the main effect is likely to be to overload the north stand ticket office, but I doubt if it will be a busy day somehow.
Announcing it this week when they will know about the protests seems like a very foolish idea and even if it had been planned prior to the protests I would imagine any sensible management board would have delayed the announcement / opening until the next home game.
It would be interesting to know what the police think.
I also assume that the stuff will all be cleared away during the match to allow normal exiting of vehicles into Harvey Gardens. At the same time as the glaziers will be nailing chipboard to the walls to temporally replace the smashed reception area glass.
Of course, what happens if one of the little darlings injures themselves and the ambulance can't get out of the car park to get to hospital because there are cars coming in one entrance and a bouncy castle blocking the others, is probably another issue no one has thought of.
You may be right about people not using all the spaces regularly, I've not looked, but I doubt if the demand has changed that much from 2012/13. In any event, if there are spare spaces you think they'd look to find ways to add value to other tickets, i.e. Vista Lounge, etc.
If it is, surely anyone stating that's their destination will be allowed access to the back of the West Stand area ?