Wasn't there a UK based Nigerian chap rumoured to be looking at a London team about that time?
CAFC ain't worth £60M, we are in the same league position as when RD bought us but with bigger balance sheet commitments (players on longer contracts, which to a purchaser could well be a bad thing). A small infrastructure spend won't add much value.
If RD paid £15M last time then that is a good guide, but scrapping of FFP meaning less chance of breaking even plus long contracts for poor players to me makes us worth less. Does not matter a jot what RD has put in.
RD may choose not to sell us at a loss but if the alternative is to keep us and keep putting in more money to cover losses each year, that negative IRR just keeps getting worse.
As for a property play I think you can ignore that, The Valley certainly is not worth £40M let alone £60M, I doubt it would be worth that even with planing, which of course we would know about and to move us from Charlton to the peninsula where land would be more expensive would be a weird way of thinking of making a return.
Think Prague hits the nail on the head - it's all very well people saying 'Roland Out' but you need a viable alternative to make any kind of successful campaign based on that premise and I simply can't see that there's any serious individuals/groups out there that would want to buy us at the current time.
This is essentially the same argument used in 1985-7 that it would take £3-5m to reopen The Valley and unless you knew where that was coming from then it was a waste of time to campaign against the team playing at Selhurst Park. The reality is that the money was found. Different times, with much less money in the game then, which cuts both ways, but it's not the fans' job to find the solution. It's our job to say to Duchatelet we will not accept the way you are running the club and we will prevent you continuing down this road, one way or another.
Had he not bought us, somebody else would have. Could they have been worse? It would have been hard!
Well.. the alternative bid, that came in too late, was all about moving to the Peninsula. And the moneyman in that consortium morphed seamlessly from a super rich businessman from abroad, to an Englishman whose name we all know who had previously owned an English club we also all know, without particularly exciting results. Didn't fill me with confidence, when that happened, on top of the huge baggage of a move away from the Valley. The guy who would have been the architect (in the broad sense) of the new stadium was very beguiling. If anybody could have sold me on a move from the beloved Valley, it was him. But he did not have the money himself.
So I still don't blame TJ and MS for choosing RD. They were out of money. And I still don't believe that RD's plan is based around a property deal involving the Valley. Which is not say the situation isn't shit, and needs to change. It is shit, and it needs to change.
An alternative view to the "If not RD, then who?" argument is to make the bastard want out, let it be known that he wants to sell and then see what interest there is. A potential buyer may well be watching and waiting for the opportunity and would have a stronger hand if he/she knows Roland is a willing seller. I would rather take my chances than stick with Roland and Meire and their mad Belgian experiment.
Think Prague hits the nail on the head - it's all very well people saying 'Roland Out' but you need a viable alternative to make any kind of successful campaign based on that premise and I simply can't see that there's any serious individuals/groups out there that would want to buy us at the current time.
This is essentially the same argument used in 1985-7 that it would take £3-5m to reopen The Valley and unless you knew where that was coming from then it was a waste of time to campaign against the team playing at Selhurst Park. The reality is that the money was found. Different times, with much less money in the game then, which cuts both ways, but it's not the fans' job to find the solution. It's our job to say to Duchatelet we will not accept the way you are running the club and we will prevent you continuing down this road, one way or another.
Of course I partly agree with you. For me the important thing is that Selhurst was obviously stupid, and the club would die if we stayed there. It is also obviously stupid to run Charlton the way it is at the moment. But it is also the case that it is stupid from RD's point of view, since he won't "break even". Nor ( and I think this is more important to him) will it look to the rest of the world like his genius has "cracked" the business of football.
So one of the options for us has to be to persuade RD that none of us are winning.
Think Prague hits the nail on the head - it's all very well people saying 'Roland Out' but you need a viable alternative to make any kind of successful campaign based on that premise and I simply can't see that there's any serious individuals/groups out there that would want to buy us at the current time.
This is essentially the same argument used in 1985-7 that it would take £3-5m to reopen The Valley and unless you knew where that was coming from then it was a waste of time to campaign against the team playing at Selhurst Park. The reality is that the money was found. Different times, with much less money in the game then, which cuts both ways, but it's not the fans' job to find the solution. It's our job to say to Duchatelet we will not accept the way you are running the club and we will prevent you continuing down this road, one way or another.
There are an increasing number of egotists out there who want to get into English football and as the clubs get sold, the options slide down to clubs like ours. Problem is, is it a case of better the devil you know. Believe it or not, it could be worse. Ask Leeds. And it also depends how long RD is prepared to sustain losses. He (his accountants) may decide it is worth selling us at a loss for tax reasons. Also, he is 67, he may pop his clogs. All that is certain is that the future, for now, is not looking good.
If I remember rightly, RD turned down a bid for Standard Liege and then about 6 months later (or was it longer), decided to sell. Do not know if the second bid was higher, or just gave him time to sell of any good players first
If I remember rightly, RD turned down a bid for Standard Liege and then about 6 months later (or was it longer), decided to sell. Do not know if the second bid was higher, or just gave him time to sell of any good players first
It gave him time to sell Frederic Bulot to Reims !
Just be patient folks, I will win euromillions very soon, it stands at seventy plus million at the moment, and once I win all our problems will be over.
If RD did turn down a bid of 47 million euros and therefore an 18 month profit of 12 million then the burning question for me is why ?
Lots of people have suggested that RD is only here to feed off us. The above scenario suggests otherwise or alarmingly he either has no intention of selling his laboratory rat or even worse that he sees a bigger payoff in the future. Given our precarious league status with associated losses should we drop then I can't help feeling that it is the latter of the two.
By what possible means could RD see a profit greater than the 12 million without some dramatic means that perhaps Ghostofcharltonpast past has already highlighted ?
That does not even address why anyone would see a bid 47 million euros for us as good business.
As Prague has already posted. I wish Ghostofcharltonpast and cafc1263 would see fit to come back on the forum and help us out.
Well to be fair to cafc1263 we had a decent off line chat, and he realises he was winding people up when he didn't mean to. I've met him, he's proper Charlton. He was close to a previous bid, but that bid has gone away. And from what I know of it, I really don't blame Jimenez and Slater for going with RD. And cafc1263 knows why I believe that.
Who knows about @ghostofcharltonpast and his bid? The one thing we've established is its nothing to do with cafc1263 and his guys. I'm just wondering how you can name the price of a bid before you've had a chance to look at the books, do due diligence. How on earth otherwise do you get to €47m? And why do you make a bid without the faintest indication that the owner of a business is interested in selling? Would be nice to know the answers to that, if the writer really wanted us to take it seriously, and wasn't just on a windup.
And finally look how quiet this thread is compared to the protest threads. That's our problem. Sorry to say something people won't want to hear, but if not RD, then who? And why?
If RD did turn down a bid of 47 million euros and therefore an 18 month profit of 12 million then the burning question for me is why ?
Lots of people have suggested that RD is only here to feed off us. The above scenario suggests otherwise or alarmingly he either has no intention of selling his laboratory rat or even worse that he sees a bigger payoff in the future. Given our precarious league status with associated losses should we drop then I can't help feeling that it is the latter of the two.
By what possible means could RD see a profit greater than the 12 million without some dramatic means that perhaps Ghostofcharltonpast past has already highlighted ?
That does not even address why anyone would see a bid 47 million euros for us as good business.
As Prague has already posted. I wish Ghostofcharltonpast and cafc1263 would see fit to come back on the forum and help us out.
Well to be fair to cafc1263 we had a decent off line chat, and he realises he was winding people up when he didn't mean to. I've met him, he's proper Charlton. He was close to a previous bid, but that bid has gone away. And from what I know of it, I really don't blame Jimenez and Slater for going with RD. And cafc1263 knows why I believe that.
Who knows about @ghostofcharltonpast and his bid? The one thing we've established is its nothing to do with cafc1263 and his guys. I'm just wondering how you can name the price of a bid before you've had a chance to look at the books, do due diligence. How on earth otherwise do you get to €47m? And why do you make a bid without the faintest indication that the owner of a business is interested in selling? Would be nice to know the answers to that, if the writer really wanted us to take it seriously, and wasn't just on a windup.
And finally look how quiet this thread is compared to the protest threads. That's our problem. Sorry to say something people won't want to hear, but if not RD, then who? And why?
PA, The answer to your question is quite simple your correct in saying why would someone table a bid without carrying out DD! When you start the process of enquiry you must provide certain crititera one of which is prof of funds having qualified this request you are then handed a (bundle) of legal jargon which is then followed up with an NDA which allows the interested parties to carry out all relevant checks and trading processes within the business. With the information you extract and the undertaking of ethics you then proceed to engage your offer if all is transparent and subject to contract I for one don't believe that the club would be valued in the region of £60 million pounds nor do I believe any potential investor would value the club or the business model at that price. Just for record I didn't join the forum to provoke nor make up stories for the purpose of winding fans up.
If RD did turn down a bid of 47 million euros and therefore an 18 month profit of 12 million then the burning question for me is why ?
Lots of people have suggested that RD is only here to feed off us. The above scenario suggests otherwise or alarmingly he either has no intention of selling his laboratory rat or even worse that he sees a bigger payoff in the future. Given our precarious league status with associated losses should we drop then I can't help feeling that it is the latter of the two.
By what possible means could RD see a profit greater than the 12 million without some dramatic means that perhaps Ghostofcharltonpast past has already highlighted ?
That does not even address why anyone would see a bid 47 million euros for us as good business.
As Prague has already posted. I wish Ghostofcharltonpast and cafc1263 would see fit to come back on the forum and help us out.
Well to be fair to cafc1263 we had a decent off line chat, and he realises he was winding people up when he didn't mean to. I've met him, he's proper Charlton. He was close to a previous bid, but that bid has gone away. And from what I know of it, I really don't blame Jimenez and Slater for going with RD. And cafc1263 knows why I believe that.
Who knows about @ghostofcharltonpast and his bid? The one thing we've established is its nothing to do with cafc1263 and his guys. I'm just wondering how you can name the price of a bid before you've had a chance to look at the books, do due diligence. How on earth otherwise do you get to €47m? And why do you make a bid without the faintest indication that the owner of a business is interested in selling? Would be nice to know the answers to that, if the writer really wanted us to take it seriously, and wasn't just on a windup.
And finally look how quiet this thread is compared to the protest threads. That's our problem. Sorry to say something people won't want to hear, but if not RD, then who? And why?
If RD did turn down a bid of 47 million euros and therefore an 18 month profit of 12 million then the burning question for me is why ?
Lots of people have suggested that RD is only here to feed off us. The above scenario suggests otherwise or alarmingly he either has no intention of selling his laboratory rat or even worse that he sees a bigger payoff in the future. Given our precarious league status with associated losses should we drop then I can't help feeling that it is the latter of the two.
By what possible means could RD see a profit greater than the 12 million without some dramatic means that perhaps Ghostofcharltonpast past has already highlighted ?
That does not even address why anyone would see a bid 47 million euros for us as good business.
As Prague has already posted. I wish Ghostofcharltonpast and cafc1263 would see fit to come back on the forum and help us out.
Well to be fair to cafc1263 we had a decent off line chat, and he realises he was winding people up when he didn't mean to. I've met him, he's proper Charlton. He was close to a previous bid, but that bid has gone away. And from what I know of it, I really don't blame Jimenez and Slater for going with RD. And cafc1263 knows why I believe that.
Who knows about @ghostofcharltonpast and his bid? The one thing we've established is its nothing to do with cafc1263 and his guys. I'm just wondering how you can name the price of a bid before you've had a chance to look at the books, do due diligence. How on earth otherwise do you get to €47m? And why do you make a bid without the faintest indication that the owner of a business is interested in selling? Would be nice to know the answers to that, if the writer really wanted us to take it seriously, and wasn't just on a windup.
And finally look how quiet this thread is compared to the protest threads. That's our problem. Sorry to say something people won't want to hear, but if not RD, then who? And why?
PA, The answer to your question is quite simple your correct in saying why would someone table a bid without carrying out DD! When you start the process of enquiry you must provide certain crititera one of which is prof of funds having qualified this request you are then handed a (bundle) of legal jargon which is then followed up with an NDA which allows the interested parties to carry out all relevant checks and trading processes within the business. With the information you extract and the undertaking of ethics you then proceed to engage your offer if all is transparent and subject to contract I for one don't believe that the club would be valued in the region of £60 million pounds nor do I believe any potential investor would value the club or the business model at that price. Just for record I didn't join the forum to provoke nor make up stories for the purpose of winding fans up.
So it sounds as if RD is at least wiling to listen to offers. Promising.
If RD did turn down a bid of 47 million euros and therefore an 18 month profit of 12 million then the burning question for me is why ?
Lots of people have suggested that RD is only here to feed off us. The above scenario suggests otherwise or alarmingly he either has no intention of selling his laboratory rat or even worse that he sees a bigger payoff in the future. Given our precarious league status with associated losses should we drop then I can't help feeling that it is the latter of the two.
By what possible means could RD see a profit greater than the 12 million without some dramatic means that perhaps Ghostofcharltonpast past has already highlighted ?
That does not even address why anyone would see a bid 47 million euros for us as good business.
As Prague has already posted. I wish Ghostofcharltonpast and cafc1263 would see fit to come back on the forum and help us out.
Well to be fair to cafc1263 we had a decent off line chat, and he realises he was winding people up when he didn't mean to. I've met him, he's proper Charlton. He was close to a previous bid, but that bid has gone away. And from what I know of it, I really don't blame Jimenez and Slater for going with RD. And cafc1263 knows why I believe that.
Who knows about @ghostofcharltonpast and his bid? The one thing we've established is its nothing to do with cafc1263 and his guys. I'm just wondering how you can name the price of a bid before you've had a chance to look at the books, do due diligence. How on earth otherwise do you get to €47m? And why do you make a bid without the faintest indication that the owner of a business is interested in selling? Would be nice to know the answers to that, if the writer really wanted us to take it seriously, and wasn't just on a windup.
And finally look how quiet this thread is compared to the protest threads. That's our problem. Sorry to say something people won't want to hear, but if not RD, then who? And why?
If RD did turn down a bid of 47 million euros and therefore an 18 month profit of 12 million then the burning question for me is why ?
Lots of people have suggested that RD is only here to feed off us. The above scenario suggests otherwise or alarmingly he either has no intention of selling his laboratory rat or even worse that he sees a bigger payoff in the future. Given our precarious league status with associated losses should we drop then I can't help feeling that it is the latter of the two.
By what possible means could RD see a profit greater than the 12 million without some dramatic means that perhaps Ghostofcharltonpast past has already highlighted ?
That does not even address why anyone would see a bid 47 million euros for us as good business.
As Prague has already posted. I wish Ghostofcharltonpast and cafc1263 would see fit to come back on the forum and help us out.
Well to be fair to cafc1263 we had a decent off line chat, and he realises he was winding people up when he didn't mean to. I've met him, he's proper Charlton. He was close to a previous bid, but that bid has gone away. And from what I know of it, I really don't blame Jimenez and Slater for going with RD. And cafc1263 knows why I believe that.
Who knows about @ghostofcharltonpast and his bid? The one thing we've established is its nothing to do with cafc1263 and his guys. I'm just wondering how you can name the price of a bid before you've had a chance to look at the books, do due diligence. How on earth otherwise do you get to €47m? And why do you make a bid without the faintest indication that the owner of a business is interested in selling? Would be nice to know the answers to that, if the writer really wanted us to take it seriously, and wasn't just on a windup.
And finally look how quiet this thread is compared to the protest threads. That's our problem. Sorry to say something people won't want to hear, but if not RD, then who? And why?
PA, The answer to your question is quite simple your correct in saying why would someone table a bid without carrying out DD! When you start the process of enquiry you must provide certain crititera one of which is prof of funds having qualified this request you are then handed a (bundle) of legal jargon which is then followed up with an NDA which allows the interested parties to carry out all relevant checks and trading processes within the business. With the information you extract and the undertaking of ethics you then proceed to engage your offer if all is transparent and subject to contract I for one don't believe that the club would be valued in the region of £60 million pounds nor do I believe any potential investor would value the club or the business model at that price. Just for record I didn't join the forum to provoke nor make up stories for the purpose of winding fans up.
I'm sorry to sound sceptical, you said you are a fellow fan of 35 years, and at this time we fans should not be falling out with each other. But I do have some M&A experience, and I actually met with people from a previous credible bid at the time RD took over. For those reasons there are some aspects of what you've told us that puzzle me.
Neither Charlton nor Staprix are publicly quoted companies.There's only one shareholder. @The Red Robin thinks you've provided evidence that RD is open to offers but I cannot see anything in what you've written that confirms that. Did the potential buyer you represented contact RD and get an indication that he would at least be open to an offer? You yourself quoted a figure of €47m. But at least in the business sector I work in, no figure would be tabled without at least some initial meetings and access to the business figures beyond those which are publicly available. (for which an NDA would have been signed). Are you telling us that the people you represent got that far: met with RD for the purpose of making an offer, looked at the books and on that basis tabled an offer of €47m, which he turned down?
Also, a separate question, did the buyer you represent not consider reaching out to the fans to see whether they could not be brought in to take a minority stake in any purchase?
You say you met with the people prior to RD Was this in the boardroom or in the directors lounge! I ask the question because I was very visible at the time TJ & MS were pondering the clubs future, maybe just maybe we have met!
You say you met with the people prior to RD Was this in the boardroom or in the directors lounge! I ask the question because I was very visible at the time TJ & MS were pondering the clubs future, maybe just maybe we have met!
They were not prior to RD. They were too late with their bid. And I didn't meet them in the UK.
So I've answered your questions, would you be kind enough to answer mine?
You say you met with the people prior to RD Was this in the boardroom or in the directors lounge! I ask the question because I was very visible at the time TJ & MS were pondering the clubs future, maybe just maybe we have met!
They were not prior to RD. They were too late with their bid. And I didn't meet them in the UK.
So I've answered your questions, would you be kind enough to answer mine?
You must understand and respect discussing open Dialog regarding the structure and proposal of an offer is totally unethical But I will confirm an offer was made and rejected.
I woke up after last night with £4.65 in change that should cover the midfield.
It's all a cunning plan to keep the Royal Mint viable. No matter how much change you've got in your pocket, the pence bit of the cost of the round is always more. In my experience, it is entirely possible to end a night out with up to £30 in coinage in various pockets around your person. Thank progress for contactless payment.
You need the money to push on. Duchatelet will overvalue so I don't see anybody being stupid enough in all honesty. The value of the club is diminishing every day the Belgian clowns are in charge to boot. Bringing in a Belgian third division manager has to be the biggest sign that the owner is not all there that you can have, short of him wearing underpants on his head and a pencil up each nostril!
KF didn't manage the 3rd Div club as a main/full time occupation. He mainly worked for RD as a scout and consultant. Eric Gerets, who's a top manager (Olympic Marseille etc ... ) just stated last week that he's taking things easy, relaxing, enjoying the millions he earned in the middle east and ... managing a 4th tier club near to where he lives ... as a hobby. A pitty, because lots of Belgians wished to see Gerets taking over from Marc Wilmots.
The equity is worthless - an acquirer would probably just take on the debts (not necessarily at par value).
The issue is as always funding the ongoing operational deficits.
Absolutely right.The most likely way that the club can move forwards is to first move backwards into administration .There is no evidence of RD being willing to commit to player acquisition so desperately needed on top of the money that he has already committed to the running of the club so investment from him at least is probably not going to materialise to take us forwards.When therefore does he decide to cut his losses and walk away and at that point are any potential buyers only willing to acquire the debts and pay him zero or insist that the debts are wiped out through administration before they invest? His budget is too low for the Championship ,he hasn't been helped by FFP weasel words from the footballing authorities ,his network of players and coaches is third rate at best and the financial rewards of promotion to the Premier are clearly best achieved by clubs who have as a strategy by owners cleared the decks of debt and only then has investment in thevfuture by others occured post administration :Bournemouth ,Palace .
Comments
CAFC ain't worth £60M, we are in the same league position as when RD bought us but with bigger balance sheet commitments (players on longer contracts, which to a purchaser could well be a bad thing). A small infrastructure spend won't add much value.
If RD paid £15M last time then that is a good guide, but scrapping of FFP meaning less chance of breaking even plus long contracts for poor players to me makes us worth less. Does not matter a jot what RD has put in.
RD may choose not to sell us at a loss but if the alternative is to keep us and keep putting in more money to cover losses each year, that negative IRR just keeps getting worse.
As for a property play I think you can ignore that, The Valley certainly is not worth £40M let alone £60M, I doubt it would be worth that even with planing, which of course we would know about and to move us from Charlton to the peninsula where land would be more expensive would be a weird way of thinking of making a return.
The issue is as always funding the ongoing operational deficits.
So I still don't blame TJ and MS for choosing RD. They were out of money. And I still don't believe that RD's plan is based around a property deal involving the Valley. Which is not say the situation isn't shit, and needs to change. It is shit, and it needs to change.
So one of the options for us has to be to persuade RD that none of us are winning.
The answer to your question is quite simple your correct in saying why would someone table a bid without carrying out DD!
When you start the process of enquiry you must provide certain crititera one of which is prof of funds having qualified this request you are then handed a (bundle) of legal jargon which is then followed up with an NDA which allows the interested parties to carry out all relevant checks and trading processes within the business.
With the information you extract and the undertaking of ethics you then proceed to engage your offer if all is transparent and subject to contract I for one don't believe that the club would be valued in the region of £60 million pounds nor do I believe any potential investor would value the club or the business model at that price.
Just for record I didn't join the forum to provoke nor make up stories for the purpose of winding fans up.
Neither Charlton nor Staprix are publicly quoted companies.There's only one shareholder. @The Red Robin thinks you've provided evidence that RD is open to offers but I cannot see anything in what you've written that confirms that. Did the potential buyer you represented contact RD and get an indication that he would at least be open to an offer? You yourself quoted a figure of €47m. But at least in the business sector I work in, no figure would be tabled without at least some initial meetings and access to the business figures beyond those which are publicly available. (for which an NDA would have been signed). Are you telling us that the people you represent got that far: met with RD for the purpose of making an offer, looked at the books and on that basis tabled an offer of €47m, which he turned down?
Also, a separate question, did the buyer you represent not consider reaching out to the fans to see whether they could not be brought in to take a minority stake in any purchase?
Was this in the boardroom or in the directors lounge!
I ask the question because I was very visible at the time TJ & MS were pondering the clubs future,
maybe just maybe we have met!
Will you be at the game tomorrow
So I've answered your questions, would you be kind enough to answer mine?
But I will confirm an offer was made and rejected.
No matter how much change you've got in your pocket, the pence bit of the cost of the round is always more. In my experience, it is entirely possible to end a night out with up to £30 in coinage in various pockets around your person. Thank progress for contactless payment.