500 million euros in the bank as is believed, then buying a football club MIGHT be viewed by me as a bit of a hobby or a plaything.
RD hasn't got READY access to anywhere near that sort of money "in the bank". Someone like a Russian oligarch or oil- rich sheikh would have. RD has got businesses and shareholdings in businesses that someone somewhere has valued in the hundreds of millions of Euros. His money, apart from the loose change, like whatever dividends he pays himself, is tied up and not easily liquidated. So the sort of cash he is likely to have knocking around is likely to be whatever he got flogging Standard Leige and whatever he can find down the back of the (fans') sofa. I don't see him doing the property development thing unless he can get a nice little loan from a friendly banker or some sort of joint enterprise with another party.
Fair point. I was just trying to get a handle on a possible mindset and how he might view the "project". I still wonder if he is able to be far enough removed from any "failure" of CAFC that he can treat it a bit like some sort of metaphorical train set laid out in his loft. ( the dream of every spotter Addick admittedly) He puts on the old station master outfit and dabbles with timetables and rolling stock. If it goes wrong, he just shrugs because it is only a bit of fun, a distraction. He can try it all again tomorrow. Of course I know ( well I imagine) he treats CAFC much more seriously than that, but the plan for the club remains unfathomable and unknown to most of us. As does his reason for buying CAFC in the first place. Which is a shade odd considering he has been here a while now. Just my penniworth. I don't think it counts in Duch's world at all. Why would it? It's his train set.
I thought it was worth reposting something I posted earlier in our adventure with Duchatelet.....
It's possibly a mistake to think that his 'motives' in creating a network of football clubs need make any more sense or will prove to be any more successful than his previous political activities.
He obsessively persisted in pursuing his somewhat eccentric and contradictory political ideas over more than a decade despite derisory results (i.e. a guaranteed 'Basic Income' for all citizens while simultaneously reducing state spending by 30%):
If re location is somewhere at the back of RD's mind then he needs to act pdq. The land available on the peninsula is finite and being bought up at a pace. Relocating elsewhere in the Borough pointless and further afield suicidal.
On that basis I'm out of the conspiracy theory surrounding re location.
I still think the most plausible plan is that he believes that the Academy will churn out players like Gomez that can be sold on for big bucks, although I think he may be overoptimistic in terms of this cancelling out the day to day running costs of a loss making club in the Championship. If he can generate more income from expanding the commercial use of the ground, he will, but I don't really think that the property development plan fits into a supportable hypothesis based on what we have seen so far. However, the fella is pretty inscrutable, so you never know!
I honestly think that the football itself is just an incidental concern to him (not least because he has admitted that he has no passion for the game) and he just hopes that he can get lucky and get promotion on the cheap....if not, I don't think he's bothered - unless we get relegated, of course, because that would depreciate the value of our Academy products and hole his plan below the water line. I think it is obvious that sees any spending above minimum levels to keep the team ticking along as denting his would be profits from his, erm, 'plan'.....and hence we are where we are....it's easier to fire managers and bring in cheapo imports and hope that fixes the problem, rather than spend on proven quality to ensure that we stay in the division, so I can't see his masterplan changing, I'm afraid.
Wouldn't put anything past the ruling clique in Greenwich, frankly. But they've generally played other ACVs reasonably fairly (with the possible exception of Woolwich Grand Theatre).
As part of the team that discussed the ACV with the RBG, they reffered the matter back to cabinet. I think part of this was that the nomination process was new, and the officers involved had not really dealt with a nomination of this size in Greenwich. As CAFC supported the nomination, as well as the great majority of MP's, councillors, and even Boris, as well as the FA. This of course did not stop Cllr Roberts delaying the whole process out of the time frame that councils have to decide applications. Although the petition, and local support made a critical factor, the first two ACV's were nodded through, and in fact applied after our own. Since then the White Swan has been nominated. Up to the trust board to renew the ACV. I would be surprised if RBG were to withdraw this, as so many clubs have no followed this path, but then we are talking about RBG so cannot be taken as 100%.
Wouldn't put anything past the ruling clique in Greenwich, frankly. But they've generally played other ACVs reasonably fairly (with the possible exception of Woolwich Grand Theatre).
As part of the team that discussed the ACV with the RBG, they reffered the matter back to cabinet. I think part of this was that the nomination process was new, and the officers involved had not really dealt with a nomination of this size in Greenwich. As CAFC supported the nomination, as well as the great majority of MP's, councillors, and even Boris, as well as the FA. This of course did not stop Cllr Roberts delaying the whole process out of the time frame that councils have to decide applications. Although the petition, and local support made a critical factor, the first two ACV's were nodded through, and in fact applied after our own. Since then the White Swan has been nominated. Up to the trust board to renew the ACV. I would be surprised if RBG were to withdraw this, as so many clubs have no followed this path, but then we are talking about RBG so cannot be taken as 100%.
If I remember rightly Ken we were one of the first to go through the ACV process in the borough (wasn't there a rugby pitch that went before us or something?) so I'm not sure if any other community assets have been renewed so I doubt RBG have a process for dealing with renewals, should make things fun !
When is the date to start the renewal application?
We got ours around October 2013? So that's good until October 2018. However, Am sure all would agree that CAST should be applying for renewal at the first permitted opportunity
The council really doesn't have a lot of discretion over ACVs. Having accepted it once they would really struggle to drop it. I wouldn't worry about it.
Everyone should read the Trust News interview with him by the Belgian journalist. Don't worry if you read it and think, am I thick or what? It's not you, it's him.
But somewhere in there you can see he wants to do "good" . For him being rich is not enough. He s looking for some kind of recognition.
I'm neither defending nor knocking him ( re this article) I'd love to hear more from him though. Read it and decide for yourselves.
Everyone should read the Trust News interview with him by the Belgian journalist. Don't worry if you read it and think, am I thick or what? It's not you, it's him.
But somewhere in there you can see he wants to do "good" . For him being rich is not enough. He s looking for some kind of recognition.
I'm neither defending nor knocking him ( re this article) I'd love to hear more from him though. Read it and decide for yourselves.
Yes, that's true and kudos to him for that - but it's beginning to get rather confusing when It comes to us.
He plans a commercial development at Jena similar to the one at St Truiden. There is plenty of space to do it though, it will result in a more noisy stadium, and the guys @GlassHalfFull and I spoke to were all for it. And he only owns 49% of Jena. So I see this as merely him thinking that a footie ground should make the most commercial use of its space. He's built a new stand at Alcorcon too.
On top of that, when another consortium that was intent on playing the Peninsula card approached him, soon after he'd taken control, he brushed them off, saying that wasn't what he was interested in.
None of which is to say we should not be on our guard, and I for one didn't realize the ACV is only valid to 2017. That seems a rather pointless scheme if so. If it is an ACV, it surely doesn't stop being one within five years?
Not quite correct there on what was relayed back to the other consortium.
I'm not really surprised at his willingness to spend on ground improvements, facilities and developing players as an asset, but not "invest" in players and staff.
It's just how a regular asset based business is run. Apart from high cash generating businesses, you accumulate value through improving asset value. What we see as "investing" in a player is not an investment it is paying for the means of production through a depreciating asset (with a possible short term increase in value). You only increase production costs if it will generate profits that are big enough to also pay for its inevitable replacement.
If your preoccupation is in asset value, and you don't make a profit, you make sure you don't make a loss as it will be met by selling assets.
If you make a profit you choose whether to take the cash, convert it to assets or increase your costs of production to increase profits (more players). The latter is a gamble.
That's how RD probably thinks, that CAFC is the same as all his other businesses. If his objective is to grow and protect asset value he will be reluctant to gamble by increasing his cost of production, i.e players and staff and put his assets at risk.
Getting promotion will be down to luck and the skill of his management, not increasing his costs, which is why he has no reticence in changing management. So I don't see him changing anything unless it's consistent with conventional business rules.
I sense he is immune from the danger of taking emotional decisions.
I'm not really surprised at his willingness to spend on ground improvements, facilities and developing players as an asset, but not "invest" in players and staff.
It's just how a regular asset based business is run. Apart from high cash generating businesses, you accumulate value through improving asset value. What we see as "investing" in a player is not an investment it is paying for the means of production through a depreciating asset (with a possible short term increase in value). You only increase production costs if it will generate profits that are big enough to also pay for its inevitable replacement.
If your preoccupation is in asset value, and you don't make a profit, you make sure you don't make a loss as it will be met by selling assets.
If you make a profit you choose whether to take the cash, convert it to assets or increase your costs of production to increase profits (more players). The latter is a gamble.
That's how RD probably thinks, that CAFC is the same as all his other businesses. If his objective is to grow and protect asset value he will be reluctant to gamble by increasing his cost of production, i.e players and staff and put his assets at risk.
Getting promotion will be down to luck and the skill of his management, not increasing his costs, which is why he has no reticence in changing management. So I don't see him changing anything unless it's consistent with conventional business rules.
I sense he is immune from the danger of taking emotional decisions.
But the only real asset he has is the land at floyd road and sparrows lane, unless someone else wants to buy the football buildings for their current and only use.
I'm not really surprised at his willingness to spend on ground improvements, facilities and developing players as an asset, but not "invest" in players and staff.
It's just how a regular asset based business is run. Apart from high cash generating businesses, you accumulate value through improving asset value. What we see as "investing" in a player is not an investment it is paying for the means of production through a depreciating asset (with a possible short term increase in value). You only increase production costs if it will generate profits that are big enough to also pay for its inevitable replacement.
If your preoccupation is in asset value, and you don't make a profit, you make sure you don't make a loss as it will be met by selling assets.
If you make a profit you choose whether to take the cash, convert it to assets or increase your costs of production to increase profits (more players). The latter is a gamble.
That's how RD probably thinks, that CAFC is the same as all his other businesses. If his objective is to grow and protect asset value he will be reluctant to gamble by increasing his cost of production, i.e players and staff and put his assets at risk.
Getting promotion will be down to luck and the skill of his management, not increasing his costs, which is why he has no reticence in changing management. So I don't see him changing anything unless it's consistent with conventional business rules.
I sense he is immune from the danger of taking emotional decisions.
But the only real asset he has is the land at floyd road and sparrows lane, unless someone else wants to buy the football buildings for their current and only use.
Assuming his intentions are to relocate and assuming that talks began now. What sort of time frame are we looking at? 6 or 7 years maybe? For a man nearly 70 that appears to be a long term strategy with quite a high risk attached. I don't think that is his play but that's not to say he doesn't have some other motive in mind.
Everyone should read the Trust News interview with him by the Belgian journalist. Don't worry if you read it and think, am I thick or what? It's not you, it's him.
But somewhere in there you can see he wants to do "good" . For him being rich is not enough. He s looking for some kind of recognition.
I'm neither defending nor knocking him ( re this article) I'd love to hear more from him though. Read it and decide for yourselves.
Roland and I have a different opinion on what 'good' is.
It reminds me of when my son was potty training. 'Well done son, you did good' - you've produced a turd.
He plans a commercial development at Jena similar to the one at St Truiden. There is plenty of space to do it though, it will result in a more noisy stadium, and the guys @GlassHalfFull and I spoke to were all for it. And he only owns 49% of Jena. So I see this as merely him thinking that a footie ground should make the most commercial use of its space. He's built a new stand at Alcorcon too.
On top of that, when another consortium that was intent on playing the Peninsula card approached him, soon after he'd taken control, he brushed them off, saying that wasn't what he was interested in.
None of which is to say we should not be on our guard, and I for one didn't realize the ACV is only valid to 2017. That seems a rather pointless scheme if so. If it is an ACV, it surely doesn't stop being one within five years?
Not quite correct there on what was relayed back to the other consortium.
Well that's what I recall Steve telling me. Happy if you want to correct me, it's all water under the bridge now, right?
Everyone should read the Trust News interview with him by the Belgian journalist. Don't worry if you read it and think, am I thick or what? It's not you, it's him.
But somewhere in there you can see he wants to do "good" . For him being rich is not enough. He s looking for some kind of recognition.
I'm neither defending nor knocking him ( re this article) I'd love to hear more from him though. Read it and decide for yourselves.
He plans a commercial development at Jena similar to the one at St Truiden. There is plenty of space to do it though, it will result in a more noisy stadium, and the guys @GlassHalfFull and I spoke to were all for it. And he only owns 49% of Jena. So I see this as merely him thinking that a footie ground should make the most commercial use of its space. He's built a new stand at Alcorcon too.
On top of that, when another consortium that was intent on playing the Peninsula card approached him, soon after he'd taken control, he brushed them off, saying that wasn't what he was interested in.
None of which is to say we should not be on our guard, and I for one didn't realize the ACV is only valid to 2017. That seems a rather pointless scheme if so. If it is an ACV, it surely doesn't stop being one within five years?
Not quite correct there on what was relayed back to the other consortium.
Well that's what I recall Steve telling me. Happy if you want to correct me, it's all water under the bridge now, right?
The following was posted by a Sint-Truidense supporter shortly after RD took us over. I've highlighted the bits specifically about the stadium.
I don't think RD wants to knock The Valley down and turn it into flats or anything of that nature, but there's some worrying stuff here, particularly the comment about no longer owning their own ground.
I'm a fan of one of Roland Duchatelet's teams: K Sint-Truidense VV.
STVV is a club that played for years in the Belgian top flight. In search for extra money (let's say 10 years ago) our Commercial Manager wrote a letter to the top-100 richest Belgians. That's how RD got involved in our club in a sponsordeal. As years went by RD became the president of our club. He managed to buy the football ground and the grounds around it. A few years ago he built a new stand with shops, offices, a hotel etc. The year of the construction we were relegated but got promoted after one year in the second division. Our goalkeeper that year was Simon Mignolet. Yep, now at Liverpool FC.
He took over Ujpest in Hungaria. His son Roderick is president over there.
When Standard Liège was for sale, he jumped on that wagon. Since you can not own two teams in one flight, he "gave" STVV to his wife Marieke Hofte. We got relegated due to a lack of investment and now still play in the second division. A new stand is being built at the moment. Google on "Stayen".
He took over another second division team (Tubize) and a few weeks ago Jena as you all know.
To round up. He owns (or is involved in): - Standard de Liège - Sint-Truiden VV - Tubize AFC - Carl Zeiss Jena - Ujpest FC
That is a brief (and incomplete) round up of his history in football.
What I think you all should know: - He bought the grounds around Staaien for peanuts from the city council. He's transforming the ground into something multifunctional. The benefits go straight into his pockets. No bennefit for the club. - After huge protest against him in Liège, he announced he would put the club up for sale. Nothing happened since. Of course the results of Standard (first in the league) helps him with that. - Between Sint-Truiden, Tubize and Standard players switch very often. It's no exception when there are 4 to 5 five players on loan from Standard at Sint-Truiden. None are of real added value. - The president of STVV is a close friend and businesspartner of Duchatelet.
What I want to warn you for: - Charlton will be just one link in his football club imperium. - Duchatelet is often seen as an idiot in football matters. But no one can deny he is a genious in businesses. - At first, we were delighted to see him arrive at our club. 10 years later, he is the worst thing that could have happened to us. We don't own our own ground any more (it's like a bird locked up in a golden cage), we got relegated to second devision thanks to his policy and now he still has his shadow hanging over us. I honestly believe he wants us to stay there because that's better for him. - He got me that far that I am doubting to buy a season ticket in the future. I'm disgusted by him and his accomplices who don't fear lieing straight in the fans' faces at supporters meetings.
What I would like to know from you: - Are there any plans for a new ground at Charlton? Because that's what is importent for him in Sint-Truiden and Liège. I can not speak for Ujpest, Zena and Tubize.
A fiew last remarks: - I have the feeling that the bigger part of the Sint-Truiden fans have the same view as me. Altough I'm not sure. But there are also people who believe he has saved our club. - This is only a very brief round up. It is far more complicated than this. So if you have questions, just ask them. I'll try to visit your forum on a regular basis. - Maybe he brings you back to the Premier League, maybe he destroys you completely. No one knows. Maybe we will see Charlton players in Sint-Truiden, Zena, Liège and Tubize. Or the other way around. No one knows. - With this post, I only want to prevent you guys from (potentially) misplaced euforia. - I did my best to express myself in English. That's what we do. :-) Please don't botter on general remarks about Belgians like the ones in a post in this treath. They are short-sighted.
A few remarks: Tubize AFC was broke and needed 400000€ cash. It was actually Standard Liège that gave them the money. Standard Liège is a club tied to corrupt politicians and the maffia. If someone would write a book or an article about it ... they'll find him 20 years later in his car on the bottom of the river Meuse. RD recently lost about 100 million euro's. One of his three main firms was over- evaluated on the stock exchange. It's now corrected and he now stands at an estimated capital of 1.2 billion euro. He was the only one in the top 20 of richest Belgians to drop down a bit ... If only he would spend half of that into his football hobby ...
Wouldn't put anything past the ruling clique in Greenwich, frankly. But they've generally played other ACVs reasonably fairly (with the possible exception of Woolwich Grand Theatre).
Comments
Of course I know ( well I imagine) he treats CAFC much more seriously than that, but the plan for the club remains unfathomable and unknown to most of us. As does his reason for buying CAFC in the first place. Which is a shade odd considering he has been here a while now.
Just my penniworth. I don't think it counts in Duch's world at all. Why would it? It's his train set.
It's possibly a mistake to think that his 'motives' in creating a network of football clubs need make any more sense or will prove to be any more successful than his previous political activities.
He obsessively persisted in pursuing his somewhat eccentric and contradictory political ideas over more than a decade despite derisory results (i.e. a guaranteed 'Basic Income' for all citizens while simultaneously reducing state spending by 30%):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Duchâtelet
And he appears to have embarked on the creation of his football 'network' scheme about the same time as he seems to have withdrawn from politics:
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/sports/1.1817955
On that basis I'm out of the conspiracy theory surrounding re location.
I honestly think that the football itself is just an incidental concern to him (not least because he has admitted that he has no passion for the game) and he just hopes that he can get lucky and get promotion on the cheap....if not, I don't think he's bothered - unless we get relegated, of course, because that would depreciate the value of our Academy products and hole his plan below the water line. I think it is obvious that sees any spending above minimum levels to keep the team ticking along as denting his would be profits from his, erm, 'plan'.....and hence we are where we are....it's easier to fire managers and bring in cheapo imports and hope that fixes the problem, rather than spend on proven quality to ensure that we stay in the division, so I can't see his masterplan changing, I'm afraid.
This of course did not stop Cllr Roberts delaying the whole process out of the time frame that councils have to decide applications. Although the petition, and local support made a critical factor, the first two ACV's were nodded through, and in fact applied after our own. Since then the White Swan has been nominated. Up to the trust board to renew the ACV. I would be surprised if RBG were to withdraw this, as so many clubs have no followed this path, but then we are talking about RBG so cannot be taken as 100%.
We got ours around October 2013? So that's good until October 2018. However, Am sure all would agree that CAST should be applying for renewal at the first permitted opportunity
But somewhere in there you can see he wants to do "good" . For him being rich is not enough. He s looking for some kind of recognition.
I'm neither defending nor knocking him ( re this article) I'd love to hear more from him though. Read it and decide for yourselves.
It's just how a regular asset based business is run. Apart from high cash generating businesses, you accumulate value through improving asset value. What we see as "investing" in a player is not an investment it is paying for the means of production through a depreciating asset (with a possible short term increase in value). You only increase production costs if it will generate profits that are big enough to also pay for its inevitable replacement.
If your preoccupation is in asset value, and you don't make a profit, you make sure you don't make a loss as it will be met by selling assets.
If you make a profit you choose whether to take the cash, convert it to assets or increase your costs of production to increase profits (more players). The latter is a gamble.
That's how RD probably thinks, that CAFC is the same as all his other businesses. If his objective is to grow and protect asset value he will be reluctant to gamble by increasing his cost of production, i.e players and staff and put his assets at risk.
Getting promotion will be down to luck and the skill of his management, not increasing his costs, which is why he has no reticence in changing management. So I don't see him changing anything unless it's consistent with conventional business rules.
I sense he is immune from the danger of taking emotional decisions.
Roland and I have a different opinion on what 'good' is.
It reminds me of when my son was potty training. 'Well done son, you did good' - you've produced a turd.