If I came across as being out of order I formally apologise. I'm merely asking questions, same as you. You've been mentioning possible dodgy/fishy dealings involving the LLDC and West Ham based on the LLDC's reluctance to publish every detail of the OS deal. You are drawing your conclusions from certain actions or non-actions by the LLDC and West Ham, I do the same with what your coalition of Trusts is doing. I reckon it's fair to say we are all passionate about our clubs which is why this is throwing up some heated debates. I'd expect the LLDC to come out with some kind of reaction either tomorrow or on Friday with regard to either appealing the decision by the FOI commissioner or releasing the requested info on the OS deal.
But do you not see the difference? We are asking questions of our public representatives. That is our right. IMHO it's our duty, it makes for a better society - but just IMHO. You are doing the equivalent of walking into a "home" pub and loudly asking us to keep the noise down. I haven't come across any other forum where you'd be humoured with replies as long as you have. There's not much point in doing it, if you are simply going to get angry when we fail to say "oh yeah, GEE , despite all the work we've done in the last 2.5 years, we can see that you are right, we should just knock it on the head and stick to complaining about the thinness of our squad".
The LLDC have until next Thursday to lodge their appeal. Either way, we'll be ready.
This is from the Newham Council homepage, they don't sound unhappy about the OS and what it will bring to the community, do they ?
Mayor of NewhamCrazy West Ham fan and oft boardroom guest Sir Robin Wales said: “Those lucky enough to have secured a place in the first event in the Stadium this Summer - the Morrisons Great Newham London Run on 19 July - will see a magnificent world class stadium in action once again...
I will answer you, despite the tone of voice you have used.
1. Charlton supporters were alerted to the commercial threat of West Ham's move to the OS years ago by the former CEO and former chairman. Of course at the time the terms of the deal were not known. It was simply a commercial threat to be aware of.
2. I became personally interested in the deal and the potential for State Aid early in 2013. Out of curiosity to test the EC system, I put together a State Aid complaint. At the time, it was just my personal initiative.
3. The response from the LLDC to the EC was so high handed and truculent that it got me more interested, so I continued with the State Aid complaint.
4. The first connection with another club came when Mat Roper of Orient started his petition in around May last year, and I posted it on here ( the thread can be easily found), and made contact with Mat. I thought he was a brave fan who was determined to go down fighting on behalf of his club, and I thought he should not stand alone
5. Only after that did CAST decide to officially adopt it as a Trust cause.
6. Mishcon de Reya when they contacted me in July did NOT tell me whom they represented in doing so. It was subsequently suggested to us that they may be working for Spurs and Orient because they have worked for both in the past. But we don't know, and we don't make it our business to know.
7. Also in July we went to the Supporters Summit, armed with a briefing on our campaign and we we'e delighted with the support we received.That is where the Coalition was borne. What a pity West Ham had no official reps there.
8. The Spurs Trust are among the excellent people involved, others are from Fulham, QPR and Chelsea, to mention only those who met in the pub last week. You would cause offence to the Spurs people with your suggestion that they act on behalf of Daniel Levy.
9. You don't know me to be fair, but anyone on here who does will tell you that I have many faults but being in the pocket of other people and being their puppet, is not among them.
Well done boy, word for word what I asked you to say ;-)
ha, ok I stand corrected. The frequent boardroom guest is correct though, right? :-)
Hang on a minute, Rich, don't let him get away with that. I've read transcripts from Wales which demonstrate otherwise, but too busy to fish them out right now.
GEE, Gav, it's a good debate and I for one appreciate you being here and putting the points. Putting the same points over and over again and not listening to the answers is a bit frustrating though, and individuals shouldn't have to justify themselves to you, only account for their arguments.
I've said before we recognise West Ham's owners are doing what any businessmen would do in achieving the best deal for their club, but that doesn't make the deal right when it's public money at stake. There are two issues really: whether it's the right deal for the taxpayer, and whether state money is distorting competition. Both should be open to public scrutiny, and in my view it's outrageous that the LLDC are even considering an appeal. It would surely be political suicide to appeal, especially as the Mayor of London has publicly stated it should be published, but frankly they seem incapable of any type of reasonable judgement.
All that said, there is no question that West Ham's owners have been complicit in misdirection, misrepresentation and acting disingenuously. They've not given up any revenue streams, they're embarking on a different business model, one in which they no longer have the cost and risks associated with owning a stadium, but have apparently been given all the advantages and more. Considering they are not sole tenants, the permanent plastering of their livery all round the stadium is extraordinarily generous, especially since Brady is on record as saying that she embraced the teaming agreement that should in principle allow another football club to make the stadium their home too.
Yet they would have us believe that they are acting in our best interests first, that having won the World Cup for us they're now saving our Olympic Legacy. Except all it does is sustain one narrow type of legacy that, were it not so rigid, might have been outworked in a different way had the deal not been done.
I look forward to the day that the contract is released - not least because those party to it seem so urgent to keep it secret.
ha, ok I stand corrected. The frequent boardroom guest is correct though, right? :-)
Hang on a minute, Rich, don't let him get away with that. I've read transcripts from Wales which demonstrate otherwise, but too busy to fish them out right now.
Fair enough - I couldn't be bothered to check it either. I think the boardroom guest is as significant. I might take a butcher's later.
EDIT: I should more accurately say that his declared gifts from West Ham are as significant, as there's the potential for compromise regardless of whether he actively supports them. They are countless.
By the way, I also found Robin Wales 2015 AGM speech suggesting Newham would make a profit from their £40m investment in the stadium itself. Hmm, well perhaps - let's assume there are no ongoing costs for Newham and they take 35% of the LLP profit share after Vinci's margins are taken, and that 2016/17 profit projections are maintained looking forward. It would take 371 years before payback.
He may hold a season ticket (no doubt one that he doesnt use too much and is probably free) but he's a Kilmarnock fan, that's for sure. I know a writer who has been talking to him about the possibility of a biography, and that is clear as far as he is personally concerned.
Recently, he has backed a bid from West Ham United, his adopted second team, to take over the Olympic Stadium after its glamorous fortnight in the sun is over.
I'm afraid you are stuck with him, @gavros much as we are stuck with Kelvin McKenzie
The new White Hart Lane stadium has been designed to hold NFL games. Competition for the OS.
As well as hosting Spurs' home matches, the newly modified White Hart Lane will showcase NFL games and will have dedicated facilities designed to cope with the demands of holding American Football events at the stadium.
The new White Hart Lane stadium has been designed to hold NFL games. Competition for the OS.
As well as hosting Spurs' home matches, the newly modified White Hart Lane will showcase NFL games and will have dedicated facilities designed to cope with the demands of holding American Football events at the stadium.
Some will still be played at Wembley though. With a bit of foresight there's no reason why the Olympic Stadium couldn't have hosted events like this.
The new White Hart Lane stadium has been designed to hold NFL games. Competition for the OS.
As well as hosting Spurs' home matches, the newly modified White Hart Lane will showcase NFL games and will have dedicated facilities designed to cope with the demands of holding American Football events at the stadium.
Some will still be played at Wembley though. With a bit of foresight there's no reason why the Olympic Stadium couldn't have hosted events like this.
its also worth noting that its still very much may be in Barry Hearn's interest to keep the topic alive seeing as he still holds the long lease on Brisbane Road and is now charging Orient £180k a year rent, adjusted upward for inflation every year and subject to review every five years. This was something that the club have never had to cope with before LBWF awarded the club the lease for £300k after Hearn made noises about moving to Harlow. He then sold the lease from the club to himself, let Orient have the ground rent free for the first five years, and then sold the club (but not the lease) just as the rental payments kicked in.
You mean it is in his interest that they stay in business? Where as it isn't in West Ham's?
The new White Hart Lane stadium has been designed to hold NFL games. Competition for the OS.
As well as hosting Spurs' home matches, the newly modified White Hart Lane will showcase NFL games and will have dedicated facilities designed to cope with the demands of holding American Football events at the stadium.
Some will still be played at Wembley though. With a bit of foresight there's no reason why the Olympic Stadium couldn't have hosted events like this.
The new White Hart Lane stadium has been designed to hold NFL games. Competition for the OS.
As well as hosting Spurs' home matches, the newly modified White Hart Lane will showcase NFL games and will have dedicated facilities designed to cope with the demands of holding American Football events at the stadium.
Some will still be played at Wembley though. With a bit of foresight there's no reason why the Olympic Stadium couldn't have hosted events like this.
The new White Hart Lane stadium has been designed to hold NFL games. Competition for the OS.
As well as hosting Spurs' home matches, the newly modified White Hart Lane will showcase NFL games and will have dedicated facilities designed to cope with the demands of holding American Football events at the stadium.
Some will still be played at Wembley though. With a bit of foresight there's no reason why the Olympic Stadium couldn't have hosted events like this.
Why can't it?
Perhaps they will clashed with West Ham at home.
And that's why. Usually a Sunday in October / November.
its also worth noting that its still very much may be in Barry Hearn's interest to keep the topic alive seeing as he still holds the long lease on Brisbane Road and is now charging Orient £180k a year rent, adjusted upward for inflation every year and subject to review every five years. This was something that the club have never had to cope with before LBWF awarded the club the lease for £300k after Hearn made noises about moving to Harlow. He then sold the lease from the club to himself, let Orient have the ground rent free for the first five years, and then sold the club (but not the lease) just as the rental payments kicked in.
Yeah but presumably Hearn and LBWF will pay Orient's policing bill when LOFC start paying rent. That's what happens with all landlords, isn't it?
Spurs have done a deal to install a 3G pitch which can slide in for NFL games, as that's the request from NFL owners who have lost faith in the pitch at Wembley
Spurs have done a deal to install a 3G pitch which can slide in for NFL games, as that's the request from NFL owners who have lost faith in the pitch at Wembley
The new White Hart Lane stadium has been designed to hold NFL games. Competition for the OS.
As well as hosting Spurs' home matches, the newly modified White Hart Lane will showcase NFL games and will have dedicated facilities designed to cope with the demands of holding American Football events at the stadium.
This.
I would bet anything that Levy has already got the London NFL Franchise pretty much sown up. The NFL have been negotiating with Levy for the best part of 18 months and news of the NFL tie up was being leaked around a year ago now. We were all certainly aware of it as long ago as that.
The NFL some time ago ruled out the olympic stadium as a viable venue to to the shallow rake of the pitch, which would require significant portions of the lower tier to be lost due to sight line issues as they always have a load of players/ staff on the pitch.
I'd imagine that if in future they bring a franchise to London, they will split it between Wembley (which an only offer a limited number of games at full capacity) and NWHL.
Spurs have done a deal to install a 3G pitch which can slide in for NFL games, as that's the request from NFL owners who have lost faith in the pitch at Wembley
The NFL some time ago ruled out the olympic stadium as a viable venue to to the shallow rake of the pitch, which would require significant portions of the lower tier to be lost due to sight line issues as they always have a load of players/ staff on the pitch.
I'd imagine that if in future they bring a franchise to London, they will split it between Wembley (which an only offer a limited number of games at full capacity) and NWHL.
Am I being thick here, can anyone help me understand this excuse?
Rake of the pitch? Surely rake of the seating.? Even then, I know NFL players are big buggers, but how many seat levels will be taken out by the view they obstruct?
I'd suggest a subtly different problem, related to the retractable seats. It is only those seats surely that are so low? So take them for NFL, they are retractable.
Ah, but unaccountably in such an expensive stadium, these seats don't have the benefit of the hydraulic system that Amsterdam uses. It take a week to install and uninstall them.
Another issue which gives the lie to the line that the taxpayer will get the money back from all the many other events the OS will stage
About 6-8 rows at Wembley are lost each side for NFL games. Spurs are putting the 3G pitch about 3 meters lower then the grass, to create the effect you have in the US where the front row is a lot higher
Comments
The LLDC have until next Thursday to lodge their appeal. Either way, we'll be ready.
You WOT???????????
I've said before we recognise West Ham's owners are doing what any businessmen would do in achieving the best deal for their club, but that doesn't make the deal right when it's public money at stake. There are two issues really: whether it's the right deal for the taxpayer, and whether state money is distorting competition. Both should be open to public scrutiny, and in my view it's outrageous that the LLDC are even considering an appeal. It would surely be political suicide to appeal, especially as the Mayor of London has publicly stated it should be published, but frankly they seem incapable of any type of reasonable judgement.
All that said, there is no question that West Ham's owners have been complicit in misdirection, misrepresentation and acting disingenuously. They've not given up any revenue streams, they're embarking on a different business model, one in which they no longer have the cost and risks associated with owning a stadium, but have apparently been given all the advantages and more. Considering they are not sole tenants, the permanent plastering of their livery all round the stadium is extraordinarily generous, especially since Brady is on record as saying that she embraced the teaming agreement that should in principle allow another football club to make the stadium their home too.
Yet they would have us believe that they are acting in our best interests first, that having won the World Cup for us they're now saving our Olympic Legacy. Except all it does is sustain one narrow type of legacy that, were it not so rigid, might have been outworked in a different way had the deal not been done.
I look forward to the day that the contract is released - not least because those party to it seem so urgent to keep it secret.
EDIT: I should more accurately say that his declared gifts from West Ham are as significant, as there's the potential for compromise regardless of whether he actively supports them. They are countless.
But after that they'll be in profit, for sure.
There were two huge events in world football –
Kilmarnock won the Scottish League – and West Ham United won a European trophy.
From t "Sir Robin Wales
An Oration to Present Him as Fellow of Birkbeck, 4 November 2010"
Recently, he has backed a bid from West Ham United, his adopted second team, to take over the Olympic Stadium after its glamorous fortnight in the sun is over.
I'm afraid you are stuck with him, @gavros much as we are stuck with Kelvin McKenzie
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/mayor-of-london-has--high-hopes--for-nfl-franchise--in-the-next-few-years-151035648.html
If only there was somewhere they could play Boris...
Q&A on Twitter today. Did anyone manage to get any questions to him? Not too late to jump on the hashtag.
As well as hosting Spurs' home matches, the newly modified White Hart Lane will showcase NFL games and will have dedicated facilities designed to cope with the demands of holding American Football events at the stadium.
I would bet anything that Levy has already got the London NFL Franchise pretty much sown up. The NFL have been negotiating with Levy for the best part of 18 months and news of the NFL tie up was being leaked around a year ago now. We were all certainly aware of it as long ago as that.
I'd imagine that if in future they bring a franchise to London, they will split it between Wembley (which an only offer a limited number of games at full capacity) and NWHL.
Rake of the pitch? Surely rake of the seating.? Even then, I know NFL players are big buggers, but how many seat levels will be taken out by the view they obstruct?
I'd suggest a subtly different problem, related to the retractable seats. It is only those seats surely that are so low? So take them for NFL, they are retractable.
Ah, but unaccountably in such an expensive stadium, these seats don't have the benefit of the hydraulic system that Amsterdam uses. It take a week to install and uninstall them.
Another issue which gives the lie to the line that the taxpayer will get the money back from all the many other events the OS will stage