Pains me to say it but with the new tv deal and their new 60k stadium, i can see them becoming a regular top 6-7 side over the next few years.
Not a chance they'll be rivals to us, they're a million miles away (in footballing terms), we should worry more about the likes of Fulham and brentford!
I'm pretty sure there's not much difference in relation of distance from our ground to their new or current ground.
There new ground is in Stratford what is a stop after West Hams on the tube line from North Greenwich.
I wouldn't worry too much.
I could be wrong thou... according to my girlfriend I am a lot of the time. But I don't believe that!
Small but important point of order for train travellers: West Ham station is about 2 miles from the Boleyn Ground, about a 30 minute walk, or 2 stops along the district line to Upton Park if you were to change at West Ham. The Stratford statium is a short walk from Stratford on the jubilee line, and from Stratford International making it generally more accessible from Kent and South London. (A car journey from the Valley to Stratford would take an extra 10-15 minutes compared to the Boleyn Ground)
I'm pretty sure there's not much difference in relation of distance from our ground to their new or current ground.
There new ground is in Stratford what is a stop after West Hams on the tube line from North Greenwich.
I wouldn't worry too much.
I could be wrong thou... according to my girlfriend I am a lot of the time. But I don't believe that!
Small but important point of order for train travellers: West Ham station is about 2 miles from the Boleyn Ground, about a 30 minute walk, or 2 stops along the district line to Upton Park if you were to change at West Ham. The Stratford statium is a short walk from Stratford on the jubilee line, and from Stratford International making it generally more accessible from Kent and South London. (A car journey from the Valley to Stratford would take an extra 10-15 minutes compared to the Boleyn Ground)
particularly easy now from Woolwich Arsenal which is about as prime Charlton territory as you can get. Then Crossrail serves Stratford doesn't it ? That will then be Abbey Wood sorted, more prime Charlton territory. Then there are the Javelin services making it very easy to get there from north Kent by train - much easier and faster than to the Valley.
All reasons why the Trust campaign to make the bastards pay more, and ease the burden on the taxpayer, is running full steam ahead.
I'm pretty sure there's not much difference in relation of distance from our ground to their new or current ground.
There new ground is in Stratford what is a stop after West Hams on the tube line from North Greenwich.
I wouldn't worry too much.
I could be wrong thou... according to my girlfriend I am a lot of the time. But I don't believe that!
Small but important point of order for train travellers: West Ham station is about 2 miles from the Boleyn Ground, about a 30 minute walk, or 2 stops along the district line to Upton Park if you were to change at West Ham. The Stratford statium is a short walk from Stratford on the jubilee line, and from Stratford International making it generally more accessible from Kent and South London. (A car journey from the Valley to Stratford would take an extra 10-15 minutes compared to the Boleyn Ground)
particularly easy now from Woolwich Arsenal which is about as prime Charlton territory as you can get. Then Crossrail serves Stratford doesn't it ? That will then be Abbey Wood sorted, more prime Charlton territory. Then there are the Javelin services making it very easy to get there from north Kent by train - much easier and faster than to the Valley.
All reasons why the Trust campaign to make the bastards pay more, and ease the burden on the taxpayer, is running full steam ahead.
You're not proper Charlton as you don't know where Crossrail goes.
(You would have to change at Whitechapel to get to Stratford from Abbey Wood)
Why are we suddenly obsessed with west ham wtf have I missed that they are now the anti christ , they done us no harm at Upton after the cnuts in Surrey, great memories for me there watching us, it's all a bit palace trying to build a rivalry
There is one good thing, having a Premier league team with thousands of unsold seats, and needing to reduce prices to fill them, reduces the inflationery pressure on other clubs to increase their prices unreasonably.
Why are we suddenly obsessed with west ham wtf have I missed that they are now the anti christ , they done us no harm at Upton after the cnuts in Surrey, great memories for me there watching us, it's all a bit palace trying to build a rivalry
Exactly,and not much different to the pantomime rivalry we're supposed to have with Millwall,but now they and Palace are no longer in our league some people are desperate to contrive a bogus rivalry so they can snivel about how much they 'hate' them.
As far as I can see,the reason for West Ham being the latest rival elect is that we've 'paid' for their new stadium and the Valley is going to be half full because everyone's swanning off to watch Premiership football instead.The Trust have now taken it upon themselves to embark on a bootless errand demanding they pay more money for the stadium and it's not hard to imagine how that will turn out...
The only rivals we have are whatever team we happen to be playing at 3 o'clock on a Saturday.
Ok so it deserves a reply just so people know what is behind the Trust campaign, and what isn't.
The Trust has no beef with West Ham. They've negotiated the best deal for their shareholders (Gullivan) as any business would do. Our beef is with the people on the other side of the table who through incompetence or worse have allowed them this deal. People who are accountable to all of us.
The commercial threat from West Ham's move to the Olympic Stadium was first identified by Peter Varney around eight years ago, and he alerted those supporters who were interested; not least because he thought it could present a rational reason for Charlton to move to a Dome site, so as to have the spare capacity to match West Ham's dumping price tickets.
However even the commercial threat is not the crux of the issue. We also face a commercial threat on our southern flank from Palace entrenching their place in the FAPL. Fortunately its less of a threat because it is still a bugger to get to from most of Charlton's heartland. But commercial threats are things you have to accept, this is a business.
The issue is that West Ham's commercial threat has been hugely exacerbated by the terms of the agreement. They are getting it for virtually nothing, and keep all the hospitality revenue. Therefore if they get their usual 30-35k plus the massive hospitality revenue, they are already laughing, and can afford to dump the rest of their tickets. They won't do that all too visibly but will use it over time to pick up casual support and that of the next generation. This activity can be curbed if the deal is renegotiated so that they have to work harder to fill the ground from within their core support at higher prices. In turn this will return money to taxpayers, particularly those in some of the most deprived parts of London. That is what the Trust campaign is about
Prague, coming from a (mostly West Ham) supporting family I've no love for the Hammers; but however you dress up what the trust is trying to do it just comes across as bitter. You state the fault is with those who negotiated the deal with West Ham so to help rectify that the trust think West Ham fans should pay higher ticket prices than they might. It's all done for the poor tax payer but the thrust of the argument seems to be Charlton losing future generations of fans. I doubt anyone outside Charlton voicing their support for the trust is doing it for sympathy with Charlton; or Orient for that matter. It's more than likely because no football fans want to see another club have a chance of more success than their own. The bottom line IMHO is that we need to get OUR act together, achieve promotion and become more successful, thereby attracting more fans. We haven't managed to do that too much in the last dozen years or so and in all that time West Ham have been playing at Upton Park, some of that time spent in a lower division than us. I'm not saying what's happening is fair or just, but sometimes when mistakes have been made by the powers that be being fair isn't an option, things just have to be done that can't suit everyone.
I'm pretty sure there's not much difference in relation of distance from our ground to their new or current ground.
There new ground is in Stratford what is a stop after West Hams on the tube line from North Greenwich.
I wouldn't worry too much.
I could be wrong thou... according to my girlfriend I am a lot of the time. But I don't believe that!
Small but important point of order for train travellers: West Ham station is about 2 miles from the Boleyn Ground, about a 30 minute walk, or 2 stops along the district line to Upton Park if you were to change at West Ham. The Stratford statium is a short walk from Stratford on the jubilee line, and from Stratford International making it generally more accessible from Kent and South London. (A car journey from the Valley to Stratford would take an extra 10-15 minutes compared to the Boleyn Ground)
particularly easy now from Woolwich Arsenal which is about as prime Charlton territory as you can get. Then Crossrail serves Stratford doesn't it ? That will then be Abbey Wood sorted, more prime Charlton territory. Then there are the Javelin services making it very easy to get there from north Kent by train - much easier and faster than to the Valley.
All reasons why the Trust campaign to make the bastards pay more, and ease the burden on the taxpayer, is running full steam ahead.
You're not proper Charlton as you don't know where Crossrail goes.
(You would have to change at Whitechapel to get to Stratford from Abbey Wood)
:: Dusts off his anorak ::
To Stratford
From Abbey Wood the journey time will be 19 minutes by Crossrail.
From Woolwich Arsenal it's 21 minutes on DLR.
From North Greenwich it's 8 minutes on the Jubilee Line.
From Ebbsfleet International, it's 12 minutes on HS1.
From Ashford International, it's 31 minutes on HS1.
To Charlton
From Abbey Wood the journey time is 12 minutes by Southeastern.
From Woolwich Arsenal it's 6 minutes on Southeastern.
From North Greenwich it's 20 minutes by bus.
From Ebbsfleet International, it's 31 minutes by car.
From Ashford International, it's roughly 4 weeks by any route
Thanks for taking the time to reply and for the greater part,I agree with your sentiments.However, I think the projected fear of losing casual support and that of the next generation is slightly dramatic/pessimisstic.Will we lose some casual support? Perhaps.The next generation? Impossible to tell such are the vagaries involved in any club's support.
It would appear your main beef is the stunning largesse afforded West Ham by the people who gave them the deal to the detriment of the taxpayer and potentially Charlton.And there's the rub:it's a done deal.
I don't,as is obvious,know much about the machinations of this deal, but to attempt forcing West Ham into paying a more realistic price seems unfeasible if not impossible,hence my bootless errand remark.
Anyway,regardless of what I think the inevitable outcome will be,I wish the Trust and their allies the best of luck in their campaign,it would be something quite extraordinary if you pull it off.
I'm pretty sure there's not much difference in relation of distance from our ground to their new or current ground.
There new ground is in Stratford what is a stop after West Hams on the tube line from North Greenwich.
I wouldn't worry too much.
I could be wrong thou... according to my girlfriend I am a lot of the time. But I don't believe that!
Small but important point of order for train travellers: West Ham station is about 2 miles from the Boleyn Ground, about a 30 minute walk, or 2 stops along the district line to Upton Park if you were to change at West Ham. The Stratford statium is a short walk from Stratford on the jubilee line, and from Stratford International making it generally more accessible from Kent and South London. (A car journey from the Valley to Stratford would take an extra 10-15 minutes compared to the Boleyn Ground)
particularly easy now from Woolwich Arsenal which is about as prime Charlton territory as you can get. Then Crossrail serves Stratford doesn't it ? That will then be Abbey Wood sorted, more prime Charlton territory. Then there are the Javelin services making it very easy to get there from north Kent by train - much easier and faster than to the Valley.
All reasons why the Trust campaign to make the bastards pay more, and ease the burden on the taxpayer, is running full steam ahead.
You're not proper Charlton as you don't know where Crossrail goes.
(You would have to change at Whitechapel to get to Stratford from Abbey Wood)
:: Dusts off his anorak ::
To Stratford
From Abbey Wood the journey time will be 19 minutes by Crossrail.
From Woolwich Arsenal it's 21 minutes on DLR.
From North Greenwich it's 8 minutes on the Jubilee Line.
From Ebbsfleet International, it's 12 minutes on HS1.
From Ashford International, it's 31 minutes on HS1.
To Charlton
From Abbey Wood the journey time is 12 minutes by Southeastern.
From Woolwich Arsenal it's 6 minutes on Southeastern.
From North Greenwich it's 20 minutes by bus.
From Ebbsfleet International, it's 31 minutes by car.
From Ashford International, it's roughly 4 weeks by any route
That alone should be enough to panic any Charlton fan. From within our own borough, and from a location just up the road from The Valley, it's easier and quicker to get to West Ham.
Hi @SID.I'm not quite sure what to make of your comment, to be honest. I must say that "bitter fans" is an accusation I have seen several times but in only one place: West Ham forums.
You say "It's more than likely because no football fans want to see another club have a chance of more success than their own."
The bit you left out was "paid by the taxpayer". If you are an Arsenal fan, having seen your own team build the Emirates on their own money, how do you think they feel? Spurs and Chelsea now face the same. In fact there are extremely important EU rules about unfair State Aid, and while the Trust thought that we'd exhausted that route, others, notably an architect who worked on the stadium and who is concerned about the legacy, have not given up. We are working alongside him.
We don't seek the "sympathy" of other clubs. All the big clubs have a reason to be cheesed off, while Orient face a fight for their very existence. We were at the Supporters Summit in Manchester at the weekend, and we prepared the attached leaflet for it. We got an overwhelmingly positive reaction. Even a West Ham fan conceded that all we are saying is absolutely right. More importantly at that meeting we linked up with Trusts from Spurs (who are very knowledgeable on the whole thing as @JohnBoyUK tipped earlier) Chelsea, Brentford and Fulham.
So sorry if you don't like what we are doing, but I'm afraid I couldn't agree less with your final sentences. If we Charlton fans had taken that line in December 1989 there probably wouldn't be a Charlton Athletic, and it certainly would not be playing at The Valley.
I didn't say bitter fans Prague I said the trust comes across as bitter. A subtle difference maybe but a difference none the less. The crux of my point of view is that the situation we've all been left with as tax payers is not ideal, it's not right and it's not fair. But it is what it is. It's not West Hams fault it's the fault of the original decision makers which cannot change no matter how much we all wish it could. Like I say there is a "friendly" but often noisy rivalry in my family (3 West Ham supporting brothers) and in that context I've no wish for them to succeed at anything. But I just don't know what you expect of West Ham. Should they pay more than they know they have to? If the trust succeeds then great but to be honest I personally find it hard to give a toss about what any other club does or gets. I don't think it has the impact on Charlton that most do on here so I guess that's a fundamental difference of opinion that's not likely to change.
Comments
Not a chance they'll be rivals to us, they're a million miles away (in footballing terms), we should worry more about the likes of Fulham and brentford!
There new ground is in Stratford what is a stop after West Hams on the tube line from North Greenwich.
I wouldn't worry too much.
I could be wrong thou... according to my girlfriend I am a lot of the time. But I don't believe that!
It's about 40 minutes from plumstead. The Valley is 12 minutes.
West Ham station is about 2 miles from the Boleyn Ground, about a 30 minute walk, or 2 stops along the district line to Upton Park if you were to change at West Ham. The Stratford statium is a short walk from Stratford on the jubilee line, and from Stratford International making it generally more accessible from Kent and South London.
(A car journey from the Valley to Stratford would take an extra 10-15 minutes compared to the Boleyn Ground)
All reasons why the Trust campaign to make the bastards pay more, and ease the burden on the taxpayer, is running full steam ahead.
(You would have to change at Whitechapel to get to Stratford from Abbey Wood)
As far as I can see,the reason for West Ham being the latest rival elect is that we've 'paid' for their new stadium and the Valley is going to be half full because everyone's swanning off to watch Premiership football instead.The Trust have now taken it upon themselves to embark on a bootless errand demanding they pay more money for the stadium and it's not hard to imagine how that will turn out...
The only rivals we have are whatever team we happen to be playing at 3 o'clock on a Saturday.
Ok so it deserves a reply just so people know what is behind the Trust campaign, and what isn't.
The Trust has no beef with West Ham. They've negotiated the best deal for their shareholders (Gullivan) as any business would do. Our beef is with the people on the other side of the table who through incompetence or worse have allowed them this deal. People who are accountable to all of us.
The commercial threat from West Ham's move to the Olympic Stadium was first identified by Peter Varney around eight years ago, and he alerted those supporters who were interested; not least because he thought it could present a rational reason for Charlton to move to a Dome site, so as to have the spare capacity to match West Ham's dumping price tickets.
However even the commercial threat is not the crux of the issue. We also face a commercial threat on our southern flank from Palace entrenching their place in the FAPL. Fortunately its less of a threat because it is still a bugger to get to from most of Charlton's heartland. But commercial threats are things you have to accept, this is a business.
The issue is that West Ham's commercial threat has been hugely exacerbated by the terms of the agreement. They are getting it for virtually nothing, and keep all the hospitality revenue. Therefore if they get their usual 30-35k plus the massive hospitality revenue, they are already laughing, and can afford to dump the rest of their tickets. They won't do that all too visibly but will use it over time to pick up casual support and that of the next generation. This activity can be curbed if the deal is renegotiated so that they have to work harder to fill the ground from within their core support at higher prices. In turn this will return money to taxpayers, particularly those in some of the most deprived parts of London. That is what the Trust campaign is about
I doubt anyone outside Charlton voicing their support for the trust is doing it for sympathy with Charlton; or Orient for that matter. It's more than likely because no football fans want to see another club have a chance of more success than their own.
The bottom line IMHO is that we need to get OUR act together, achieve promotion and become more successful, thereby attracting more fans. We haven't managed to do that too much in the last dozen years or so and in all that time West Ham have been playing at Upton Park, some of that time spent in a lower division than us.
I'm not saying what's happening is fair or just, but sometimes when mistakes have been made by the powers that be being fair isn't an option, things just have to be done that can't suit everyone.
To Stratford
- From Abbey Wood the journey time will be 19 minutes by Crossrail.
- From Woolwich Arsenal it's 21 minutes on DLR.
- From North Greenwich it's 8 minutes on the Jubilee Line.
- From Ebbsfleet International, it's 12 minutes on HS1.
- From Ashford International, it's 31 minutes on HS1.
To CharltonThanks for taking the time to reply and for the greater part,I agree with your sentiments.However, I think the projected fear of losing casual support and that of the next generation is slightly dramatic/pessimisstic.Will we lose some casual support? Perhaps.The next generation? Impossible to tell such are the vagaries involved in any club's support.
It would appear your main beef is the stunning largesse afforded West Ham by the people who gave them the deal to the detriment of the taxpayer and potentially Charlton.And there's the rub:it's a done deal.
I don't,as is obvious,know much about the machinations of this deal, but to attempt forcing West Ham into paying a more realistic price seems unfeasible if not impossible,hence my bootless errand remark.
Anyway,regardless of what I think the inevitable outcome will be,I wish the Trust and their allies the best of luck in their campaign,it would be something quite extraordinary if you pull it off.
You say "It's more than likely because no football fans want to see another club have a chance of more success than their own."
The bit you left out was "paid by the taxpayer". If you are an Arsenal fan, having seen your own team build the Emirates on their own money, how do you think they feel? Spurs and Chelsea now face the same. In fact there are extremely important EU rules about unfair State Aid, and while the Trust thought that we'd exhausted that route, others, notably an architect who worked on the stadium and who is concerned about the legacy, have not given up. We are working alongside him.
We don't seek the "sympathy" of other clubs. All the big clubs have a reason to be cheesed off, while Orient face a fight for their very existence. We were at the Supporters Summit in Manchester at the weekend, and we prepared the attached leaflet for it. We got an overwhelmingly positive reaction. Even a West Ham fan conceded that all we are saying is absolutely right. More importantly at that meeting we linked up with Trusts from Spurs (who are very knowledgeable on the whole thing as @JohnBoyUK tipped earlier) Chelsea, Brentford and Fulham.
So sorry if you don't like what we are doing, but I'm afraid I couldn't agree less with your final sentences. If we Charlton fans had taken that line in December 1989 there probably wouldn't be a Charlton Athletic, and it certainly would not be playing at The Valley.
Like I say there is a "friendly" but often noisy rivalry in my family (3 West Ham supporting brothers) and in that context I've no wish for them to succeed at anything. But I just don't know what you expect of West Ham. Should they pay more than they know they have to?
If the trust succeeds then great but to be honest I personally find it hard to give a toss about what any other club does or gets. I don't think it has the impact on Charlton that most do on here so I guess that's a fundamental difference of opinion that's not likely to change.