@PragueAddick , I have read and digested what you have said and wish the trust well. However, I cannot see them talking to the trust any time soon despite how many members you have as they own the club.
I get the whole idea about supporters being on he board like in the past but that was then and this is now. Look at Man City for example, their current owner completely revolutionised them and looked what happened. That's just one example and remember football is now a large business whether we like it or not.
Of course, we could just stay the same twee little ol Charlton and have the danger of being left behind.
Not saying everything is great under RD as it is not, but unless we have the funds to purchase a large portion of shares in CAFC then I believe we have no chance under this regime.
@Hex, what are you exactly fighting for? Channels of communication are already open via Richard Murray and the Fans Forum, if the trust cannot seize the opportunity then that is their problem.
Maybe the new chair of the trust can breathe new life into things and finish building the bridges that Razil started
@PragueAddick , I have read and digested what you have said and wish the trust well. However, I cannot see them talking to the trust any time soon despite how many members you have as they own the club.
I get the whole idea about supporters being on he board like in the past but that was then and this is now. Look at Man City for example, their current owner completely revolutionised them and looked what happened. That's just one example and remember football is now a large business whether we like it or not.
Of course, we could just stay the same twee little ol Charlton and have the danger of being left behind.
Not saying everything is great under RD as it is not, but unless we have the funds to purchase a large portion of shares in CAFC then I believe we have no chance under this regime.
Onwards and Upwards...
Maybe, but that doesn't mean we (collective "we" the fans) shouldn't hope and try to open the channels of communication wider than they are now. "We" might not succeed and how each of us measures success will be different but still worth a try.
i cant believe that 4 wins in 5 and people feeling better and more positive , and there is still posturing like millwall and the imaginary wall of armed old bill dividing them from rotherhams family enclosure
fecking av it out or siddarn
how long before everyone justs chills the feck out and gets back to worrying enjoying watching the 11 on the pitch not the nonsense going on behind it
Don't know what's more political, the corridors of Westminster or the murky world of Charlton support.
So much game playing, being clever, angles, chess moves, forged friendships, whispers, self interest etc
Surely I can't be the only one that sees it? See who pulls strings where, and with whom?
Difficult to get an honest contribution out of anyone without some form of agenda in play.
All absolute bollocks btw
This .
I have found this thread depressing . We are not a political party but a football club.
I want us as fans to have a voice but lets get real . Roland is not the worst owner we have had ,I think he is an upgrade on the spivs. I do not recall Jimenez attending fans forums .
Don't know what's more political, the corridors of Westminster or the murky world of Charlton support.
So much game playing, being clever, angles, chess moves, forged friendships, whispers, self interest etc
Surely I can't be the only one that sees it? See who pulls strings where, and with whom?
Difficult to get an honest contribution out of anyone without some form of agenda in play.
All absolute bollocks btw
This .
I have found this thread depressing . We are not a political party but a football club.
I want us as fans to have a voice but lets get real . Roland is not the worst owner we have had ,I think he is an upgrade on the spivs. I do not recall Jimenez attending fans forums .
AFKA you will know better than anyone on this forum that there are a number of "players" who obviously get some pleasure from posting comments that are just intended to prompt a response from others. This results in debates and arguments that often seem to culminate in petty name-calling and side-taking. While this forum is intended to air varying comments and opinions, it sometimes makes difficult reading to those of us who prefer to keep our thoughts to ourselves. I have supported our team for over 50 years and suffered through the bad times and enjoyed whenever we have had good times. I have been lucky enough to meet many of our posters over the last few years and every one of them is Charlton to the core, but I also know that there is a silent majority of Charlton fans that do not get involved with the Trust or Charlton Life and are only concerned about the team representing our club. Many, many fans are not too concerned about communication with the owner as long as our team are doing the business - and putting in the effort - on the pitch. Any outsider reading this forum lately would probably think that we are all going to stop supporting our team unless the owner agrees to open discussions with our representatives and that is not the case for many of us.
@Hex, what are you exactly fighting for? Channels of communication are already open via Richard Murray and the Fans Forum, if the trust cannot seize the opportunity then that is their problem.
Maybe the new chair of the trust can breathe new life into things and finish building the bridges that Razil started
Perhaps I am looking at the overall club/supporter relationship rather than disecting individual points of conflict to the nth degree. Perhaps I am not convinced by the touchy feely answers KM gives. Perhaps I listen too much to the experiences of supporters of other network clubs. Perhaps the number of wrong decisions made in just over a year is worrying. Perhaps RM is not totally convinced about the RD/KM ownership experience. Perhaps only the Trust has similar thoughts to myself.
If the FF is the way forward, why have the club arranged so few meetings so far and why have they not made any changes to it ? And, surely its the club that should be building bridges?
AFKA you will know better than anyone on this forum that there are a number of "players" who obviously get some pleasure from posting comments that are just intended to prompt a response from others. This results in debates and arguments that often seem to culminate in petty name-calling and side-taking. While this forum is intended to air varying comments and opinions, it sometimes makes difficult reading to those of us who prefer to keep our thoughts to ourselves. I have supported our team for over 50 years and suffered through the bad times and enjoyed whenever we have had good times. I have been lucky enough to meet many of our posters over the last few years and every one of them is Charlton to the core, but I also know that there is a silent majority of Charlton fans that do not get involved with the Trust or Charlton Life and are only concerned about the team representing our club. Many, many fans are not too concerned about communication with the owner as long as our team are doing the business - and putting in the effort - on the pitch. Any outsider reading this forum lately would probably think that we are all going to stop supporting our team unless the owner agrees to open discussions with our representatives and that is not the case for many of us.
And for every one of those mate theres 100's like you who post quality like that
The saddest thing for me is that those that do it are nice people and good company, and the posts dont match the persona that you meet all be it for a short period on a matchday
AFKA you will know better than anyone on this forum that there are a number of "players" who obviously get some pleasure from posting comments that are just intended to prompt a response from others. This results in debates and arguments that often seem to culminate in petty name-calling and side-taking. While this forum is intended to air varying comments and opinions, it sometimes makes difficult reading to those of us who prefer to keep our thoughts to ourselves. I have supported our team for over 50 years and suffered through the bad times and enjoyed whenever we have had good times. I have been lucky enough to meet many of our posters over the last few years and every one of them is Charlton to the core, but I also know that there is a silent majority of Charlton fans that do not get involved with the Trust or Charlton Life and are only concerned about the team representing our club. Many, many fans are not too concerned about communication with the owner as long as our team are doing the business - and putting in the effort - on the pitch. Any outsider reading this forum lately would probably think that we are all going to stop supporting our team unless the owner agrees to open discussions with our representatives and that is not the case for many of us.
Wish posters would not claim the silent majority as supporting their argument. Of that majority a mixture of them would be for against a point of view. True enough, that supporters are happier when the club is winning and doing well. Agree that proper debate encouraged and pettiness should be avoided. Who knows what Roland Duchalet's strategy for the new season is. Perhaps the large scale unrest and expressions of disappointment about a thin squad encouraged him to support contracts for Eagles, Johnson and Diarra. None of us really know though, but it could be a possibility.
An active supporter base and Duchatelet being encouraged to bring the support base / customers with him is a good thing. This is particularly important when things are not going so well.
@PragueAddick , I have read and digested what you have said and wish the trust well. However, I cannot see them talking to the trust any time soon despite how many members you have as they own the club.
I get the whole idea about supporters being on he board like in the past but that was then and this is now. Look at Man City for example, their current owner completely revolutionised them and looked what happened. That's just one example and remember football is now a large business whether we like it or not.
Of course, we could just stay the same twee little ol Charlton and have the danger of being left behind.
Not saying everything is great under RD as it is not, but unless we have the funds to purchase a large portion of shares in CAFC then I believe we have no chance under this regime.
Onwards and Upwards...
Viewing this from a distance (via Seattle) I think it comes down to what "you" want Charlton to be. I think what happened here in Seattle is illustrative of what happens when football becomes big business. From 1994 to 2008 the "old" Seattle Sounders competed in the USL and were profitable but gates ranged from 1500 to 2000. Fans had access to players via VIP packages and meet-and-greets. I remember having front row seats and a player meet-and-greet before an Cardiff FC-Seattle exhibition (for US$25.00) and being on the field chatting with Neil Mellor before the game. Fast forward to the "new" Sounders owned by Hollywood producer Joe Roth, and its minority owners are Adrian Hanauer, Paul Allen and Drew Carey the cheapest seats are now US$30.00 but the stadium is sold out game-after-game. Gone are VIP packages and meet-and-greets but the FANS seem to be happy.
Time has moved on ... what do you want Charlton to be in the future?
AFKA you will know better than anyone on this forum that there are a number of "players" who obviously get some pleasure from posting comments that are just intended to prompt a response from others. This results in debates and arguments that often seem to culminate in petty name-calling and side-taking. While this forum is intended to air varying comments and opinions, it sometimes makes difficult reading to those of us who prefer to keep our thoughts to ourselves. I have supported our team for over 50 years and suffered through the bad times and enjoyed whenever we have had good times. I have been lucky enough to meet many of our posters over the last few years and every one of them is Charlton to the core, but I also know that there is a silent majority of Charlton fans that do not get involved with the Trust or Charlton Life and are only concerned about the team representing our club. Many, many fans are not too concerned about communication with the owner as long as our team are doing the business - and putting in the effort - on the pitch. Any outsider reading this forum lately would probably think that we are all going to stop supporting our team unless the owner agrees to open discussions with our representatives and that is not the case for many of us.
Wish posters would not claim the silent majority as supporting their argument. Of that majority a mixture of them would be for against a point of view. True enough, that supporters are happier when the club is winning and doing well. Agree that proper debate encouraged and pettiness should be avoided. Who knows what Roland Duchalet's strategy for the new season is. Perhaps the large scale unrest and expressions of disappointment about a thin squad encouraged him to support contracts for Eagles, Johnson and Diarra. None of us really though, but it could be a possibility.
An active supporter base and Duchatelet being encouraged to bring the support base / customers with him is a good thing. This is particularly important when things are not going so well.
AFKA you will know better than anyone on this forum that there are a number of "players" who obviously get some pleasure from posting comments that are just intended to prompt a response from others. This results in debates and arguments that often seem to culminate in petty name-calling and side-taking. While this forum is intended to air varying comments and opinions, it sometimes makes difficult reading to those of us who prefer to keep our thoughts to ourselves. I have supported our team for over 50 years and suffered through the bad times and enjoyed whenever we have had good times. I have been lucky enough to meet many of our posters over the last few years and every one of them is Charlton to the core, but I also know that there is a silent majority of Charlton fans that do not get involved with the Trust or Charlton Life and are only concerned about the team representing our club. Many, many fans are not too concerned about communication with the owner as long as our team are doing the business - and putting in the effort - on the pitch. Any outsider reading this forum lately would probably think that we are all going to stop supporting our team unless the owner agrees to open discussions with our representatives and that is not the case for many of us.
Wish posters would not claim the silent majority as supporting their argument. Of that majority a mixture of them would be for against a point of view. True enough, that supporters are happier when the club is winning and doing well. Agree that proper debate encouraged and pettiness should be avoided. Who knows what Roland Duchalet's strategy for the new season is. Perhaps the large scale unrest and expressions of disappointment about a thin squad encouraged him to support contracts for Eagles, Johnson and Diarra. None of us really know though, but it could be a possibility.
An active supporter base and Duchatelet being encouraged to bring the support base / customers with him is a good thing. This is particularly important when things are not going so well.
Home attendances don't seem to particularly correlate strongly with either success or turmoil both on and off the pitch. It's hard to say whether a small dip in attendances in winter signify unhappiness with the owners, dejection at a string of games with out a win, displeasure with the manager or simply because it's too cold for some people who drag themselves along. Looking at the attendances for this year really don't have any strong indicators that, by and large, fans are or were happy or unhappy with any of the events on or off the pitch. And at the end of the day that's the only thing that matters to RD. Doesn't matter how silent or loud the majority is, as long as the majority are still filling seats.
An interesting thought though: Was RD's refusal to open lines of communication during our winless streak or Peeters' sacking a sign that he doesn't care what the fans think, or was it the kind of shrewd coolheadedness we need in an owner who is able to make tough decisions without being second-guessed by fickle, disgruntled fans who now seem rather quietly content at the recent success of the squad, proven by the fact anti-RD sentiment has definitely fallen in the past few weeks? I don't feel too strongly one way or the other. We had a shit run and I've been a Charlton fan long enough to know that we always have a shit run but that doesn't mean I'm blindly supportive of the owners now we've got some decent results coming in.
Too much arrogance and self interest. As AFKA says too much politics. Too many people were more involved in previous regimes and have had their noses put out of joint because the current owner has no regard for them.
We all feel passionately about Charlton, but reading threads like this make me wonder why some bother with it?
It's as if they get more excitement/interest out of the business/politics side of everything rather than the actual football/escapism that it should generate for people.
Surely you can invest your time and energies getting excited about spreadsheets at work?
I know sometimes it's just a necessary evil to go through all this stuff to promote change - I just don't get why people get so politically heavy. Life's too short surely?
• Public disenchantment of people saying they no longer feel an affinity with the club, unprecedented and a long term thing in a year where we made a pretty decent start. We've been in far worse spots than this without that happening.
I think a fair number could empathise with that view which made it more worrying
• And as for the other point about noses out of joint, the Trust were reasonably happy to play a long game with the new owners and demonstrate our worth.
Home attendances don't seem to particularly correlate strongly with either success or turmoil both on and off the pitch. It's hard to say whether a small dip in attendances in winter signify unhappiness with the owners, dejection at a string of games with out a win, displeasure with the manager or simply because it's too cold for some people who drag themselves along. Looking at the attendances for this year really don't have any strong indicators that, by and large, fans are or were happy or unhappy with any of the events on or off the pitch. And at the end of the day that's the only thing that matters to RD. Doesn't matter how silent or loud the majority is, as long as the majority are still filling seats.
True only if you look at published attendances. If you go by how many turn up then there has been a significant reduction.
• Public disenchantment of people saying they no longer feel an affinity with the club, unprecedented and a long term thing in a year where we made a pretty decent start. We've been in far worse spots than this without that happening.
I think a fair number could empathise with that view which made it more worrying
• And as for the other point about noses out of joint, the Trust were reasonably happy to play a long game with the new owners and demonstrate our worth.
R
There is no dip in attendance though, both comparatively between the start of the season and last season there are only trivial differences in the level of attendance that cannot be accurately attributed to any one or many causes. The fact is the vast majority of ticket sales are made to people who watch the game and then do not go on the Internet to discuss the inner machinations of the club. We're the exceptions.
• Public disenchantment of people saying they no longer feel an affinity with the club, unprecedented and a long term thing in a year where we made a pretty decent start. We've been in far worse spots than this without that happening.
I think a fair number could empathise with that view which made it more worrying
• And as for the other point about noses out of joint, the Trust were reasonably happy to play a long game with the new owners and demonstrate our worth.
R
It would be interesting to have Woolwhich again now, I am sure that results and players who we can relate to Johnson & Eagles, plus Diarra with English experience, will have changed a lot of peoples feelings about their affinity with the club and whether 400 would turn up again would be debatable. Its a results business and moods swing with them.
The attendance is not a dip so much as a long term decline since the days of the Premiership, and resulting from two relegations, one promotion not followed up by investment and two dire on pitch performances, a new regime that made poor on pitch decisions and a strong negative campaign against them - both justified and unjustified.
• And as for the other point about noses out of joint, the Trust were reasonably happy to play a long game with the new owners and demonstrate our worth.
• Public disenchantment of people saying they no longer feel an affinity with the club, unprecedented and a long term thing in a year where we made a pretty decent start. We've been in far worse spots than this without that happening.
I think a fair number could empathise with that view which made it more worrying
• And as for the other point about noses out of joint, the Trust were reasonably happy to play a long game with the new owners and demonstrate our worth.
R
Don't think my "dip" in enthusiasm is solely related to my 53 years of attending The Valley. I'm disenchanted with football in general. The FIFA World Cup scandal, the FFP debacle, the arrogance and outright greed of the Premier League.
These have all chipped away at my love of football. I wonder how much longer or what it will take for me to call it a day. Nothing to do with Jimenez or Duchatelet, Powell, Peeters or Luzon.
Not much attracts me to football these days. I am coming to despise what the game has become.
It's only my Charlton blood that keeps me hanging on. Just.
In reply to your post Barnie I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.
Disagree, big gaps were appearing in the ground. Season ticket holders were not attending. To say that this is just trivial is to ignore deep disatisfaction with what was happening in terms of thinness of the squad and a number of head scratching decisions.
It appears you are suggesting a link that because a large amount of supporters don't go onto post onto the net that supporters are not bothered ? That's leaning towards claiming those supporters for your argument which as I have said around the silent majority, it is not correct to do as these supporters will have mixed views.
Too much arrogance and self interest. As AFKA says too much politics. Too many people were more involved in previous regimes and have had their noses put out of joint because the current owner has no regard for them.
The Trust is just over two years old so how does that work?
Too much arrogance and self interest. As AFKA says too much politics. Too many people were more involved in previous regimes and have had their noses put out of joint because the current owner has no regard for them.
The Trust is just over two years old so how does that work?
That wasn't aimed at the Trust but at certain individuals.
• Public disenchantment of people saying they no longer feel an affinity with the club, unprecedented and a long term thing in a year where we made a pretty decent start. We've been in far worse spots than this without that happening.
I think a fair number could empathise with that view which made it more worrying
• And as for the other point about noses out of joint, the Trust were reasonably happy to play a long game with the new owners and demonstrate our worth.
R
There is no dip in attendance though, both comparatively between the start of the season and last season there are only trivial differences in the level of attendance that cannot be accurately attributed to any one or many causes. The fact is the vast majority of ticket sales are made to people who watch the game and then do not go on the Internet to discuss the inner machinations of the club. We're the exceptions.
Comments
Maybe the new chair of the trust can breathe new life into things and finish building the bridges that Razil started
So much game playing, being clever, angles, chess moves, forged friendships, whispers, self interest etc
Surely I can't be the only one that sees it? See who pulls strings where, and with whom?
Difficult to get an honest contribution out of anyone without some form of agenda in play.
All absolute bollocks btw
fecking av it out or siddarn
how long before everyone justs chills the feck out and gets back to worrying enjoying watching the 11 on the pitch not the nonsense going on behind it
I have found this thread depressing . We are not a political party but a football club.
I want us as fans to have a voice but lets get real . Roland is not the worst owner we have had ,I think he is an upgrade on the spivs. I do not recall Jimenez attending fans forums .
While this forum is intended to air varying comments and opinions, it sometimes makes difficult reading to those of us who prefer to keep our thoughts to ourselves.
I have supported our team for over 50 years and suffered through the bad times and enjoyed whenever we have had good times. I have been lucky enough to meet many of our posters over the last few years and every one of them is Charlton to the core, but I also know that there is a silent majority of Charlton fans that do not get involved with the Trust or Charlton Life and are only concerned about the team representing our club.
Many, many fans are not too concerned about communication with the owner as long as our team are doing the business - and putting in the effort - on the pitch.
Any outsider reading this forum lately would probably think that we are all going to stop supporting our team unless the owner agrees to open discussions with our representatives and that is not the case for many of us.
If the FF is the way forward, why have the club arranged so few meetings so far and why have they not made any changes to it ? And, surely its the club that should be building bridges?
The saddest thing for me is that those that do it are nice people and good company, and the posts dont match the persona that you meet all be it for a short period on a matchday
I feel your sentiments
An active supporter base and Duchatelet being encouraged to bring the support base / customers with him is a good thing. This is particularly important when things are not going so well.
Time has moved on ... what do you want Charlton to be in the future?
Thank God I've been busy "with Cheltenham" today. I would say unbelieveable, but unfortunately, it's entirely predictable.
An interesting thought though: Was RD's refusal to open lines of communication during our winless streak or Peeters' sacking a sign that he doesn't care what the fans think, or was it the kind of shrewd coolheadedness we need in an owner who is able to make tough decisions without being second-guessed by fickle, disgruntled fans who now seem rather quietly content at the recent success of the squad, proven by the fact anti-RD sentiment has definitely fallen in the past few weeks? I don't feel too strongly one way or the other. We had a shit run and I've been a Charlton fan long enough to know that we always have a shit run but that doesn't mean I'm blindly supportive of the owners now we've got some decent results coming in.
It's as if they get more excitement/interest out of the business/politics side of everything rather than the actual football/escapism that it should generate for people.
Surely you can invest your time and energies getting excited about spreadsheets at work?
I know sometimes it's just a necessary evil to go through all this stuff to promote change - I just don't get why people get so politically heavy. Life's too short surely?
• Public disenchantment of people saying they no longer feel an affinity with the club, unprecedented and a long term thing in a year where we made a pretty decent start. We've been in far worse spots than this without that happening.
I think a fair number could empathise with that view which made it more worrying
• And as for the other point about noses out of joint, the Trust were reasonably happy to play a long game with the new owners and demonstrate our worth.
R
The attendance is not a dip so much as a long term decline since the days of the Premiership, and resulting from two relegations, one promotion not followed up by investment and two dire on pitch performances, a new regime that made poor on pitch decisions and a strong negative campaign against them - both justified and unjustified.
These have all chipped away at my love of football. I wonder how much longer or what it will take for me to call it a day. Nothing to do with Jimenez or Duchatelet, Powell, Peeters or Luzon.
Not much attracts me to football these days. I am coming to despise what the game has become.
It's only my Charlton blood that keeps me hanging on. Just.
In reply to your post Barnie I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.
It appears you are suggesting a link that because a large amount of supporters don't go onto post onto the net that supporters are not bothered ? That's leaning towards claiming those supporters for your argument which as I have said around the silent majority, it is not correct to do as these supporters will have mixed views.